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Will Perez force the dems left? This poll is closed. |
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| Yes |
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33 | 6.38% |
| No |
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343 | 66.34% |
| Keith Ellison |
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54 | 10.44% |
| Pete Buttigieg |
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71 | 13.73% |
| Jehmu Green |
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16 | 3.09% |
| Total: | 416 votes | ||
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Obama deported my grandma But he didn't do it racistly. The Democratic Party 👌🏻
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Mar 25, 2017 03:45
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Obama deported my grandma That really sucks. It also does nothing to support your argument that there was no difference between how Trump and Hillary would handle immigration.
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Mar 25, 2017 03:53
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JeffersonClay posted:They both wanted some sort of barrier, but only one of them wanted to keep DACA and DAPA and offer amnesty and a path to citizenship for the undocumented immigrants currently in the US. The other one wants to kick them all out, reduce legal immigration and stop accepting refugees. There's no equivalency there, unless you're willing to erase all the pain and horror the Trump administration is likely to cause the immigrant community in order to score some cheap political point. And as a Latino immigrant yourself (IIRC) that's pretty loving lovely. no, the wall is one thing, he literally had the 2nd trail of tears but with illegal immigrants thing as a policy he talked about, not just dog whistled. sometimes an extremely expensive, ruinous wall is just a wall. edit: why would you think donald "grab em by the pussy" trump would go for the subtlety of a dog whistle anyway? he was straight up racist plenty of times. Condiv fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Mar 25, 2017 |
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Mar 25, 2017 03:55
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DeadlyMuffin posted:That really sucks. It's not about how Hillary would hypothetically handle immigration if she was president It's about both of them wanting to appease racist voters by saying they want to build a barrier so refugees can't come into the country and I guess just die in the desert
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Mar 25, 2017 03:56
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:It's not about how Hillary would hypothetically handle immigration if she was president Is your argument there should be no protections at the border whatsoever?
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Mar 25, 2017 03:58
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Obama deported my grandma That sucks, it's too bad that happened before the democrats were able to get amnesty through the congress. How long was she here? Condiv posted:no, the wall is one thing, he literally had the 2nd trail of tears but with illegal immigrants thing as a policy he talked about, not just dog whistled. sometimes an extremely expensive, ruinous wall is just a wall. He stopped calling mexicans rapists but whenever he said build the wall the trumpenproles knew exactly what he meant. That's a dogwhistle.
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Mar 25, 2017 03:58
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https://twitter.com/tedlieu/status/845405728932331520
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Mar 25, 2017 04:00
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DeadlyMuffin posted:Is your argument there should be no protections at the border whatsoever? No, my argument is that lovely politicians use the image of walls and fences and rhetoric like "keep the illegals out" Dog whistles, you know?
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Mar 25, 2017 04:24
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JC, the feckless liberal, says Obamacare failed because "racism" and people just accept his godawful 2016 opinion????? You can't keep blaming everything on racism you dumb prick. ACA failed because: 1) GOP have hated gov. healthcare since the 80s and were ready to attack. 2) Dems did a godawful job at launching it. 3) Dems did a godawful job at selling it to the American people. 4) It was a garbage, GOP half-measure to begin with.
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Mar 25, 2017 04:36
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JeffersonClay posted:It was on his website, but he didn't talk about it much at all. He threw out plenty of bullshit bromides about cutting the deficit too. Kilroy posted:You lost, badly - move aside and quit being a pain in everyone's rear end.
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Mar 25, 2017 04:41
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Also,  at the guy who constantly defends Hillary's commitment to the 2016 platform with "well she put some poo poo on her website", then claiming public option wasn't a thing because Obama didn't talk about it enough. Just You're horrible at this, JeffersonClay.
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Mar 25, 2017 04:49
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JC and Fulcrum have kept the conversation firmly grounded in the very important opinion of "Trump bad, Hillary misunderstood." It's essential that all us dummies understand how much Trump bad and how much Hillary misunderstood.
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Mar 25, 2017 04:54
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Majorian posted:But my point is, there are so many people who are so, so much more to blame for the Iraq War than Clinton, and they're never going to get punished for it, and that's infuriating. So I can't really see myself calling for her head on that crime alone. What does 'calling for her head' mean? No one is advocating that she goes to prison. But when you make a mistake, you don't necessarily go back to the way things were. You can own up to a mistake, and still get fired / dumped / whatever. Apologizing for bad decisions doesn't mean you don't get judged on them. It seems pretty clear that Clinton made so many mistakes that a large number of people simply stopped seeing her as someone they'd find viable as President. More than the average Democratic Primary voter thought.
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Mar 25, 2017 11:08
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JeffersonClay posted:They both wanted some sort of barrier, but only one of them wanted to keep DACA and DAPA and offer amnesty and a path to citizenship for the undocumented immigrants currently in the US. The other one wants to kick them all out, reduce legal immigration and stop accepting refugees. There's no equivalency there, unless you're willing to erase all the pain and horror the Trump administration is likely to cause the immigrant community in order to score some cheap political point. And as a Latino immigrant yourself (IIRC) that's pretty loving lovely. It is perfectly possible that one is better than the other, but that both are bad. When that is the case, you will have a certain number of people who will not support either candidate (or who'll support the candidates based on other issues). That's the fundamental problem with lesser-of-two-evil candidates.
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Mar 25, 2017 11:11
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Pedro De Heredia posted:It is perfectly possible that one is better than the other, but that both are bad. Precisely this. They are both poo poo. Yes, Clinton is less poo poo. But man, it's kind of disheartening to see a democratic presidential candidate go up in stage and boast about the giant barrier she voted to build to keep illegals out
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Mar 25, 2017 12:46
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Twenty-five Dem senators voted for Bush's border fence in 2006, including both Obama and Biden, but I don't remember it being an issue with anyone until Trump started dogwhistling.
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Mar 25, 2017 14:05
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Main Paineframe posted:Twenty-five Dem senators voted for Bush's border fence in 2006, including both Obama and Biden, but I don't remember it being an issue with anyone until Trump started dogwhistling. Hm... almost like...centrism... is bad...?!
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Mar 25, 2017 14:11
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Main Paineframe posted:Twenty-five Dem senators voted for Bush's border fence in 2006, including both Obama and Biden, but I don't remember it being an issue with anyone until Trump started dogwhistling. It's always been an issue And Trump successfully trolled Clinton with it. He also trolled Hillary with TPP and with her hawkishness. And then he won. It seems to me that bad policies lost the 2016 election. But please keep blaming racism and sexism and things we can't really fix.
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Mar 25, 2017 15:11
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Centrists vote for border walls like this: *pragmatically* Racists vote for border walls like this: *racistly, but you can't tell the difference*
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Mar 25, 2017 15:13
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The Kingfish posted:Centrists vote for border walls like this: Exactly, but no one gave a poo poo about border walls till Trump started talking racistly about them, even though it had been part of the GOP platform for years and every significant Dem presidential candidate (except one!) in the last three elections had voted for one.
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Mar 25, 2017 15:32
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Main Paineframe posted:Exactly, but no one gave a poo poo about border walls till Trump started talking racistly about them, even though it had been part of the GOP platform for years and every significant Dem presidential candidate (except one!) in the last three elections had voted for one. I gave a poo poo about border walls and rhetoric demonizing immigrants. Democrats have been terrible in every front. Not as bloodthirsty and evil as the GOP, but that's why the label "GOP-lite" works wonderfully. They're a little less bad than the republicans. That's not very inspiring.
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Mar 25, 2017 15:48
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Really the defence of Clinton boiling down to she wanted a FENCE not a disgusting WALL is really insane. I just want everyone to think about that for a second. It's not anywhere near as racist as Trump Wall, but let's not pretend it isn't racist. Let's also not forget that Obama deported far, far more people than W did and it was Obama's immigration courts that decided that loving TODDLERS WERE COMPETENT ENOUGH TO DEFEND THEMSELVES IN COURT. I really want to emphasises that that happened and no one cared because Democratic racist policy is less openly awful than Donald Trump. We talk all we like about how the Democrats are tv's sensible ones in this protecting the border from the bad hombres...I mean cartels. But how is the security of America insured by returing coffee refugees fleeing massive cartel violence, to the violence they were trying to escape fueled by America's demand for illegal narcotics? How is America made more safe by returning little Pedro to Hondorus where he can be killed in gang violence, or to grow up add eventually join one of those cartels because it's the only good paying work around since it's better than being a slave in a sweatshop? These are the blind spots we have to deal with, and that's nite even getting into how successive Governments since the 80s have continually expanded the definition of what is a deportable crime to expand the number of people that it can be done to. Immigration crime has not increased, we decided to criminalize more behavior. KomradeX fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Mar 25, 2017 |
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Mar 25, 2017 16:59
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I suspected that Obama was doing it for the political capital of being recognized for doing it and he planned to use it as one of his cards while negotiating for immigration reform. I was watching the Republican debates and saw Ted Cruz going off the handle about how previous presidents were soft on immigration and had lower deportation numbers, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, then he conspicuously stopped at Obama as if he were aware of his record on this. It was a strange hole in the list of names, rhetoric which I expect to see more frequently in the future after Trump leaves office and Republican debaters discuss previous presidents.
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Mar 25, 2017 17:13
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Obama was loving terrible and sucked in the vast majority of issues. And Hillary thought that being Obamas third term was good enough for the electorate. Sad.
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Mar 25, 2017 17:27
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Obama was loving terrible and sucked in the vast majority of issues. Can't blame her for thinking that, since Obama's first and second terms were good enough for the electorate, and he remains popular even today. If he'd been able to run for a third term he probably would have won.
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Mar 25, 2017 18:09
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Main Paineframe posted:Exactly, but no one gave a poo poo about border walls till Trump started talking racistly about them, even though it had been part of the GOP platform for years and every significant Dem presidential candidate (except one!) in the last three elections had voted for one. "Nobody gave a poo poo" is exactly what we've come to expect from centrists. Nevermind that hundreds of protests surrounded Obama's garbage immigration policies. (Now to be fair, DACA was a good thing and it allowed my ex and my family to get temporary peace of mind. But it was ultimately a cynical half-measure that was left for the next president to deal with. The Democrats came in strong in 2008 and the best they could dish was a memo four years later? Now cut to political realists telling me, a voter, that I should still vote for them because the GOP are worse.)
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Mar 25, 2017 18:19
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Main Paineframe posted:Can't blame her for thinking that, since Obama's first and second terms were good enough for the electorate, and he remains popular even today. If he'd been able to run for a third term he probably would have won. Of course he would, he's charismatic as gently caress. Hillary is not.
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Mar 25, 2017 18:27
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Main Paineframe posted:Can't blame her for thinking that, since Obama's first and second terms were good enough for the electorate, and he remains popular even today. If he'd been able to run for a third term he probably would have won. Um, obama was well-liked she was not we can blame her for thinking that
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Mar 25, 2017 18:42
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Frijolero posted:"Nobody gave a poo poo" is exactly what we've come to expect from centrists. It's not just centrists that didn't give a poo poo. Where were all the leftist candidates running for office and pushing for change and immigration reform? Where were all the centrists getting ousted and replaced due to backlash from pro-immigration movements? Why is it that it took loving Trump to get people talking about maybe supporting candidates who don't want to build border walls and deport all immigrants? WampaLord posted:Of course he would, he's charismatic as gently caress. Well, yeah, that's a big part of the problem - the Dems looked at Obama and saw him winning despite having lovely policies, so they thought it meant "people are fine with these policies" instead of "Obama is a good enough campaigner to win in spite of his lovely policies".
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Mar 25, 2017 19:33
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Main Paineframe posted:It's not just centrists that didn't give a poo poo. Where were all the leftist candidates running for office and pushing for change and immigration reform? Where were all the centrists getting ousted and replaced due to backlash from pro-immigration movements? Why is it that it took loving Trump to get people talking about maybe supporting candidates who don't want to build border walls and deport all immigrants? you're essentially blaming the victim
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Mar 25, 2017 19:48
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Lol at "why didn't leftists just take control of the party and run it the way they want." If activists were politicians, we wouldn't be in the loving mess we're in now. None of y'all centrist types can fess up and admit that the Dems have garbage policies and have, at best, been complicit with terrible GOP policies, and, at worst, been straight up cynical assholes who are willing to use immigration reform and social programs as political bargaining chips.
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Mar 25, 2017 20:45
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I didnt see any of you college bernouts protesting vietnam
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Mar 25, 2017 21:28
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/fewer-latinos-are-reporting-rapes-abuse-amid-growing-fears-of-deportation_us_58d28ef9e4b02d33b7477ce5quote:Since the beginning of 2017, reports of rape among the city’s Latino population have declined by 25 percent, compared to the same period last year. Domestic violence reports have dropped nearly 10 percent. According to statistics provided by the Los Angeles Police Department, no other ethnic group experienced a comparable decrease. Really there's no difference between Democrats and Republicans on immigration policy.
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Mar 26, 2017 01:09
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JeffersonClay posted:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/fewer-latinos-are-reporting-rapes-abuse-amid-growing-fears-of-deportation_us_58d28ef9e4b02d33b7477ce5 Yes, one parties is less openly racist.
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Mar 26, 2017 01:18
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Crowsbeak posted:Yes, one parties is less openly racist. Eh, in a sense, but results matter. Speculate as you will about whether or not the Dems are racists at heart; these are more racist results than anything they've put in place.
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Mar 26, 2017 01:20
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JeffersonClay posted:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/fewer-latinos-are-reporting-rapes-abuse-amid-growing-fears-of-deportation_us_58d28ef9e4b02d33b7477ce5 Imagine if Hillary wouldn't have voted for a wall to keep illegals out
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Mar 26, 2017 02:01
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JeffersonClay posted:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/fewer-latinos-are-reporting-rapes-abuse-amid-growing-fears-of-deportation_us_58d28ef9e4b02d33b7477ce5 One party deports your people in record numbers, the other party makes you fear deportation. Don't use rape to lesser-of-two-evils your poo poo argument.
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Mar 26, 2017 02:13
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Frijolero posted:One party deports your people in record numbers, the other party makes you fear deportation. Don't deny the violent impacts on undocumented Latina immigrants that Trump's policy regime has created to maintain your idiotic false equivalency.
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Mar 26, 2017 02:48
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Frijolero posted:Lol at "why didn't leftists just take control of the party and run it the way they want." Activists can be politicians. More to the point, they should be. Bernie doesn't have magical political powers, and he isn't some prophesized savior who was fated from birth to be a politician - he's just a normal guy, someone who wanted to do more to change things.
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Mar 26, 2017 02:53
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JeffersonClay posted:Don't deny the violent impacts on undocumented Latina immigrants that Trump's policy regime has created to maintain your idiotic false equivalency. Lmao if you think this poo poo didn't happen under obama or Clinton
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Mar 26, 2017 03:27
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