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Will Perez force the dems left? This poll is closed. |
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| Yes |
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33 | 6.38% |
| No |
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343 | 66.34% |
| Keith Ellison |
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54 | 10.44% |
| Pete Buttigieg |
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71 | 13.73% |
| Jehmu Green |
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16 | 3.09% |
| Total: | 416 votes | ||
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Frijolero posted:Not a single person* has advocated for "unlimited immigration," but seeing as how you have no ground to stand on, I don't blame you for grasping at strawmen. If you are advocating against any kind of barrier to crossing the border and against any kind of deportation you are advocating for unlimited immigration and open borders weather you're smart enough to realize it or not.
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Mar 27, 2017 16:32
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JeffersonClay posted:If you are advocating against any kind of barrier to crossing the border and against any kind of deportation you are advocating for unlimited immigration and open borders weather you're smart enough to realize it or not.  You're embarrassing yourself
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Mar 27, 2017 16:41
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JeffersonClay posted:weather you're smart enough to realize it or not.  You're really loving the "dumb leftist" schtick. Nobody said we should knock down the walls. We've been against Clinton for building MORE walls. But again, you love accusing people of creating straw men when you're the main perp.
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Mar 27, 2017 16:42
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Frijolero posted:* The only major 21st century political figure who has advocated for unlimited immigration is Jill Stein. And she's not human according to most centrists. To be fair, while she's human, she's also kind of a dumbass. Tight Booty Shorts posted:Lmao, yea, that's why they lost. I don't think Clinton's stance on immigration played that big of a role in her loss. "Strengthening borders" wasn't one of her central issues. That doesn't mean she shouldn't be criticized for what she said about keeping undocumented workers out, of course.
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Mar 27, 2017 16:46
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Majorian posted:To be fair, while she's human, she's also kind of a dumbass. She's a Green party leftist, so no she's not dumb, she's just a radical. I rather have a Jill Stein than not. And the Green New Deal is something a lot of Dems like and are likely going to run with in the future.
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Mar 27, 2017 16:49
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Frijolero posted:She's a Green party leftist, so no she's not dumb, she's just a radical. she thinks wifi causes cancer, she's p dumb
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Mar 27, 2017 16:51
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Lmao, yea, that's why they lost. What's your stance on immigration? You seem to exclusively talk about refugees. Do you make a distinction when it comes to the southern border?
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Mar 27, 2017 16:53
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Raskolnikov38 posted:she thinks wifi causes cancer, she's p dumb Also thinks she has to cater to anti-vaxxers, even if she isn't one herself. I have very little respect for her.
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Mar 27, 2017 16:59
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Raskolnikov38 posted:she thinks wifi causes cancer, she's p dumb That was a centrist smear. Majorian posted:Also thinks she has to cater to anti-vaxxers, even if she isn't one herself. I have very little respect for her. Also a centrist smear. Both questions came from supporters and her answers were: "More research is needed." Even though the Green party supports free broad brand and free vaccines, the liberal media ran with it to smear her candidacy. Same poo poo was done with Bernie on his milquetoast gun control stances.
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Mar 27, 2017 17:06
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Frijolero posted:That was a centrist smear. The correct answer to both is, "These are crazy, dumb conspiracy theories." She's either a moron or a coward if she thinks "more research is needed" was the correct answer.
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Mar 27, 2017 17:07
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JeffersonClay posted:Uh, yeah, I know who they voted for and what his position on immigration was. Which is why I know running on unlimited immigration and open borders is such a laughable idea. We know people don't support that, at all. The point isn't who Trump supporters voted for. The point is, you keep insisting that Clinton was clearly so much better than Trump on immigration, and that she was the obvious choice for pro-immigration people. But apparently she wasn't. As I pointed out earlier, pro-immigration advocates and lawyers were very distrusting of Clinton. Clinton was not to pro-immigration what Trump was to anti-immigration. Racists responded to him because he was openly and explicitly racist in a way no one had been in some time; anti-Racists didn't respond to Clinton in the same way because she was not the anti-Trump in that sense. You're looking at this in terms of how extreme a policy is instead of how credible it is. Trump was much more credible as a racist than Clinton was as an anti-racist, which makes the choice for voters less clear. Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Mar 27, 2017 |
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Mar 27, 2017 17:07
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Majorian posted:The correct answer to both is, "These are crazy, dumb conspiracy theories." She's either a moron or a coward if she thinks "more research is needed" was the correct answer. She's clearly unpolished and uncouth, but please keep beating a dead horse.
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Mar 27, 2017 17:11
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Frijolero posted:She's clearly unpolished and uncouth, but please keep beating a dead horse. I've made three posts about her in this thread. I just don't think leftists (or anybody) should pin any hopes to her, because she's not a very good leader.
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Mar 27, 2017 17:15
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Frijolero posted:She's clearly unpolished and uncouth, but please keep beating a dead horse. You're kinda starting to sound like a Trump supporter here. Jill Stein has said some really dumb stuff and if you want to you can keep supporting her while acknowledging that she has some major flaws. Also the Green Party is firmly against nuclear power which is super dumb. Granted, the two major parties aren't that good with nuclear power either, but at least they don't to pull a Germany and retire all existing ones early.
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Mar 27, 2017 17:19
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Frijolero posted:* The only major 21st century political figure who has advocated for unlimited immigration is Jill Stein. And she's not human according to most centrists.
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Mar 27, 2017 17:26
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Ytlaya posted:Also the Green Party is firmly against nuclear power which is super dumb. Granted, the two major parties aren't that good with nuclear power either, but at least they don't to pull a Germany and retire all existing ones early. I agree with this, although I don't expect the U.S. to increase its peaceful nuclear output anytime soon. People have been too spooked by poo poo like Fukushima, which is unfortunate, because it could really help slow the effects of climate change.
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Mar 27, 2017 17:28
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Ytlaya posted:You're kinda starting to sound like a Trump supporter here. Jill Stein has said some really dumb stuff and if you want to you can keep supporting her while acknowledging that she has some major flaws. But yeah, Jill Stein is an idiot, and the correct answer to "does wifi cause cancer and are vaccines bad?" is a firm "no on both counts, you loving idiot, now get your dumb rear end out of my convention". If the left is going to attach to some other organization while the Democrats fade into a rump party, that other organization is unlikely to be the Greens.
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Mar 27, 2017 17:28
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we can however trust the US navy to run nuclear reactors, thank you admiral rickover
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Mar 27, 2017 17:29
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The real problem with the Green Party is their ego-focused priorities, only running a candidate for President every 4 years and not doing the hard work of trying to win small, local elections to actually build up some influence. I totally get why they do that, because it's way easier to get support/money/attention during the presidential election, but they're being selfish as gently caress.
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Mar 27, 2017 17:32
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I don't know where I got the idea people ITT were defending unlimited immigration by rejecting border barriers and deportation.Tight Booty Shorts posted:well duh, that's the problem. Hillary and Obama may have voted for giant fences to keep illegals out and deported massive numbers of immigrants, but they did it in a non-racist way. Therefore making it ok. Tight Booty Shorts posted:Why are you insisting on restricting people from coming into this country? Raskolnikov38 posted:yeah the method is "not every single non-american is going to pack up their poo poo and move to foreign country the moment they open up immigration" you dumb motherfucker These are also the same people who cannot recognize any important difference between the GOP and Dem platform on immigration. So if they aren't arguing for open borders, what part of the democratic platform do they actually disagree with? What part of Bernie's immigration plan needs to change for them to stop calling it GOP-lite?
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Mar 27, 2017 17:35
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JeffersonClay posted:These are also the same people who cannot recognize any important difference between the GOP and Dem platform on immigration. So if they aren't arguing for open borders, what part of the democratic platform do they actually disagree with? What part of Bernie's immigration plan needs to change for them to stop calling it GOP-lite? If there's any process for admitting people and providing a feasible path to citizenship without just letting everybody through, that is by definition not "open borders."
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Mar 27, 2017 17:35
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JeffersonClay posted:I don't know where I got the idea people ITT were defending unlimited immigration by rejecting border barriers and deportation. none-cause you're the only one who calls bernie's plans GOP-lite
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Mar 27, 2017 17:35
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Ytlaya posted:You're kinda starting to sound like a Trump supporter here. Jill Stein has said some really dumb stuff and if you want to you can keep supporting her while acknowledging that she has some major flaws. Thanks for telling me how to support candidates. I also appreciate being compared to Trump supporters after voting for Hillary and Democrats last October. Feels real good. WampaLord posted:The real problem with the Green Party is their ego-focused priorities, only running a candidate for President every 4 years and not doing the hard work of trying to win small, local elections to actually build up some influence. They do run local candidates. (I was one of them in 2014). They currently have 100+ local candidates in office. I didn't want to derail with Jill Stein, but y'all clearly want blood. Again, Hillary and centrism lost the 2016 election, not the third parties.
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Mar 27, 2017 17:37
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Frijolero posted:They do run local candidates. (I was one of them in 2014). That's a drop in the bucket and you know that. That's a pathetic amount considering how many positions are available in this country. Frijolero posted:Again, Hillary and centrism lost the 2016 election, not the third parties. I agree, but it's important we don't view the Greens as the solution because they have just as many problems, if not more.
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Mar 27, 2017 17:39
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Frijolero posted:Thanks for telling me how to support candidates. Actually it was the easily defeatable but horribly dangerous Bernie bros who are responsible for everything bad
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Mar 27, 2017 17:40
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Kilroy posted:Eh, after Fukushima frankly I'm not sure I can trust governments or corporations not to gently caress up nuclear power horribly. It's safe and clean enough when done right, but corporations weasel out of doing the right thing all the time, and it's rare for governing bodies to exercise the oversight to detect it, and even rarer to do anything substantial about wrongdoing when they discover it. Before Fukushima I was strongly pro-nuclear power - now I'm kinda on the fence. I can understand that, although, as you probably know, it didn't help that the facility was incredibly decrepit, and it still took an act of God to breach the containment. I have a feeling nuclear regulations are going to be tightened over the coming decades. WampaLord posted:The real problem with the Green Party is their ego-focused priorities, only running a candidate for President every 4 years and not doing the hard work of trying to win small, local elections to actually build up some influence. Or build a broader platform beyond a handful of domestic issues. Frijolero posted:
I don't think anyone's arguing that third parties cost the Dems the '16 election.
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Mar 27, 2017 17:43
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WampaLord posted:
You're projecting bruv. I made a simple comment about Jill Stein being a radical and y'all jumped on it like pirahnas. I never said the Green Party is the path forward. But it's great seeing liberals freak out any time someone mentions the dreaded 3rd party.
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Mar 27, 2017 17:50
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Majorian posted:I've made three posts about her in this thread. I just don't think leftists (or anybody) should pin any hopes to her, because she's not a very good leader. Pretty much, she's an albatross on the Greens who now runs a vanity campaign every 4 years. She has her poo poo less put together than the Libertarians and they're a bunch of mouth breathing smooth brains dying from the heat given off by their 1997 Compaq tying to mine Bitcoins
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Mar 27, 2017 17:51
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Condiv posted:none-cause you're the only one who calls bernie's plans GOP-lite readingatwork posted:Yes they are. And this is coming from someone who supports these positions (illegal immigration is like the one issue I lean conservative on). The fact that Bernie supports them doesn't change this. Bernie's plans were functionally identical to the democratic platform. People in this thread are suggesting there's no important difference between those policies and the GOP. Fiction posted:If there's any process for admitting people and providing a feasible path to citizenship without just letting everybody through, that is by definition not "open borders." If there's no enforcement mechanism to exclude the people who don't follow the process, i.e. restricting border crossings and deportations, that's de facto open borders.
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Mar 27, 2017 17:53
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JC, you seem like really sure that you've got all the answers, but do you have any evidence that you have ever been right about anything?
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Mar 27, 2017 17:54
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I knew Bernie was going to lose.
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Mar 27, 2017 17:55
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JeffersonClay posted:I knew Bernie was going to lose. But not Hillary lol
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Mar 27, 2017 17:57
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:But not Hillary lol To be fair, most people didn't know Hillary was going to lose. Probably SHOULD HAVE, though.
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Mar 27, 2017 18:00
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I had a lot of company. Had you told me in August the FBI director was going to drop an October surprise 10 days before the election I would have been a lot more worried.
JeffersonClay fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Mar 27, 2017 |
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Mar 27, 2017 18:00
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JeffersonClay posted:Bernie's plans were functionally identical to the democratic platform. In much the same way bernie was functionally identical to Hillary. Which is to say, not even close to identical, but you need to defend abuela wanting to deport child refugees so you're trying to form a false equivalence between her and bernie.
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Mar 27, 2017 18:01
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Majorian posted:To be fair, most people didn't know Hillary was going to lose. Probably SHOULD HAVE, though. JC is a big boy, you don't have to defend him. Also lol, even the staunchest Bernie supporters knew he would lose. How is that a worthwhile claim?
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Mar 27, 2017 18:04
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Frijolero posted:JC is a big boy, you don't have to defend him. Oh, I'm not. It's more that I think we leftists who thought Clinton would win, could benefit from a little self-flagellation for not seeing what was right in front of us.
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Mar 27, 2017 18:07
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Condiv posted:In much the same way bernie was functionally identical to Hillary. Which is to say, not even close to identical, but you need to defend abuela wanting to deport child refugees so you're trying to form a false equivalence between her and bernie. What leads you to believe Hillary wanted to deport any more child refugees than Bernie? (She didn't)
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Mar 27, 2017 18:09
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we dumb leftists, we masochists
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Mar 27, 2017 18:08
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Majorian posted:Oh, I'm not. It's more that I think we leftists who thought Clinton would win, could benefit from a little self-flagellation for not seeing what was right in front of us. It gave me a hell of a wakeup call. Before the election, I was actually mostly onboard with the Clinton-type centrism/neoliberalism. Now I realize that stuff is loving poison and needs to be banished.
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Mar 27, 2017 18:09
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