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Why do people think Belters aren't intelligent?
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Mar 28, 2017 16:35
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Why do people think Belters aren't intelligent? The low gravity and cheap bone drugs have hosed up their speech centres.
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Mar 28, 2017 16:47
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Why do people think Belters aren't intelligent? Nobody said they aren't. One guy said Earthers, in relative terms, aren't as intelligent though. I don't know why he thinks that.
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Mar 28, 2017 16:49
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99% of Earth is living on welfare. So called "Belters" don't even come from a country. They're all basically homeless. Put Earthers back to work. Evict the Belters.
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Mar 28, 2017 17:56
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Since in the real world they are famously susceptible to frauds and scams, perhaps the Nauvoo was relatively easy to steal because due to original founder effects Mormons are genetically disposed towards believing transparent nonsense to an even greater extent than most religious people. That's why most of them accepted Fred's excuses why they needed to get off their ship. Also why they thought generation ship colonization of an unscouted star system made sense.
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Mar 28, 2017 18:17
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You know maybe Mars had better ships and tech because everyone and their mother wants to be an engineer or doctor or scientist to help the terraforming effort and that impact of having an entire population geared toward serving a highly technical and advanced goal makes them better in other fields too. Im sure there are Einsteins on Earth but they are probably dying in squalor in some slum in Baltimore
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Mar 28, 2017 18:25
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vermin posted:99% of Earth is living on welfare. So called "Belters" don't even come from a country. They're all basically homeless. "We Belters own the vacuum!" "I've got good news, and I've got bad news. Which do you want first?"
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Mar 28, 2017 18:26
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Maybe the people arguing against Martians having better stuff feel inadequate because they're Earthers and forgot that all humans atm are Earthers.
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Mar 28, 2017 18:56
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What is Mars economy based on exactly? Like if Mars has a newer and more highly advanced fleet... how did they fund its building and upkeep? Belt has mining, which isnt making them any money, Ganymede is a joint outpost that makes all the food... Mars makes?
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Mar 28, 2017 19:29
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Blackchamber posted:What is Mars economy based on exactly? Like if Mars has a newer and more highly advanced fleet... how did they fund its building and upkeep? Both the earth and mars are rich off belt resources. The belt is poor because, like in the real world, all the resource extraction profits flow out along with the resources.
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Mar 28, 2017 19:34
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Blackchamber posted:What is Mars economy based on exactly? Like if Mars has a newer and more highly advanced fleet... how did they fund its building and upkeep? Mars makes everything it needs except raw materials from the Belt that aren't abundant on Mars and biological stuff from Earth. The Belt is poor because extracting resources is very low value as labor. Finding resource might be hard and of value (like today's advanced oil recovery), but probably not in the Belt. Mining is itself really straightforward and (space aspects aside) isn't highly skilled, so anyone can do it and the returns are low. The value goes to those who own the capital used to do it, and those belonged exclusively to the Earthers and Martians who had developed manufacturing bases before the cheap drive made it feasible to go to the Belt. The labor force out there can try to save up for their own ships, but they're way behind the existing capitalists from the Inner System. Mars is also always going to be richer than the Belt because they have greater concentration of population (economies of scale) than the Belt can achieve, and they don't have to spend as big a fraction of their economy on life support just to exist. Or import actually valuable poo poo with skilled inputs from halfway across the solar system. The only reasons for Mars to be ahead of Earth is they don't have a huge underclass to support, they may have some more abundant resources for local development (but not really, life support should more than eat up that limited advantage for whatever minerals they might have), and presumably the earliest settlement waves were very disproportionately engineers and science Ph.Ds screened for acceptable personality traits and entrepreneurial drive, so they really should have an overall smarter, more cooperative, and more energetic populace than Earth unless they allowed mass immigration for some reason following the invention of the cheap drive. It's like Albion's Seed, but with selected Chinese, Indians, and Texans instead of regional English traits self perpetuating for centuries.
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Mar 28, 2017 19:58
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Also it can't be overstated how much Earth is a giant humanitarian crater that consumes all the resources you could ever throw at it. It's not a welfare state, it's a permenant disaster relief operation for 95% of the population. And they will always be unproductive because there is literally nothing for them to do that isn't cheaper and faster to do with a robot or a starving Belter. If expanse Earth was actually neoliberal~~~ they would all be dead and a population of 500 million plus soldiers would be living in a post scarcity utopia.
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Mar 28, 2017 20:13
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Strategic Tea posted:And they will always be unproductive because there is literally nothing for them to do that isn't cheaper and faster to do with a robot or a starving Belter. That hits a little too close to home 
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Mar 28, 2017 20:17
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Strategic Tea posted:Also it can't be overstated how much Earth is a giant humanitarian crater that consumes all the resources you could ever throw at it. It's not a welfare state, it's a permenant disaster relief operation for 95% of the population. And they will always be unproductive because there is literally nothing for them to do that isn't cheaper and faster to do with a robot or a starving Belter. Do the books lay out more details on the numbers and conditions on earth?
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Mar 28, 2017 20:21
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From Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri logic Mars: Police State, Planned, Knowledge Earth: Democratic, Free Market, Power OPA: Frontier, Simple, Survival OPA needs to pull its head out of its rear end and start playing the long game, maybe build some Secret Projects, build a few Supply Crawlers
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Mar 28, 2017 20:25
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Baronjutter posted:Do the books lay out more details on the numbers and conditions on earth? It's something like 30 billion people total, I don't remember a percentage of how many work/get higher education. A book character is shown visiting a city and basically everyone gets a standard apartment in a crowded high rise and is allowed to use ration cards for standard, boring food (and presumably streamed entertainment), but doing something like going to a restaurant or even buying a decent coffee at a Starbucks equivalent requires cash. And it's implied from Holden's family situation that you can get big "tax" refunds for not having kids, thus the 7-8 people who cooperated to have Holden through legal shenanigans that made them a unified household able to collect against not having a big pool of children and use the funds to buy a cooperative farm. A non-viewpoint book character with a job also gets fired, and it's implied that being delegated to a life of Basic and forgotten about is worse than any criminal prosecution he could have suffered. It's basically Idiocracy with an upper caste that makes sure the Brawndo comes out of your tap, not the irrigation system. In the later books there's quite a bit else about significantly changed conditions on Earth! Number Ten Cocks fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Mar 28, 2017 |
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Mar 28, 2017 20:34
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How did it get to 30 billion before the major countries of earth/UN instituted some heavy chinese style 1-child policies?
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Mar 28, 2017 20:37
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Number Ten Cocks posted:going to a restaurant or even buying a decent coffee at a Starbucks equivalent requires cash. In “The Churn”, a character eats at a café and pays in cash. The barista is surprised, because almost all their customers are on basic.
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Mar 28, 2017 20:44
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Baronjutter posted:How did it get to 30 billion before the major countries of earth/UN instituted some heavy chinese style 1-child policies? Discovering too late that development drops birth rates, but that development plus majority unemployment brings the rates right back up. They eventually did start restricting family size, but I guess not soon enough.
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Mar 28, 2017 20:46
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Platystemon posted:In “The Churn”, a character eats at a café and pays in cash. The barista is surprised, because almost all their customers are on basic. Ok, I hosed that one up. Baronjutter posted:How did it get to 30 billion before the major countries of earth/UN instituted some heavy chinese style 1-child policies? In 2015 the UN projected (see Total Population file) the population of Sub-saharan Africa to more than quadruple from now to 2100. It's now 962,287,000, they forecast 3,934,829,000. Do you think anyone is going to suggest those countries institute a 1-child policy or that they could succeed if they tried? Apparently the current plan is for them and a big percentage of the Arab world to move to Europe and collect welfare, so the Expanse isn't even being foresighted here. The only implausible science fiction aspect may be the retention of a functioning economy and government layered on top of this. Number Ten Cocks fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Mar 28, 2017 |
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Mar 28, 2017 20:48
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The Martians also developed the Epstein drive which had a massive impact on their economic and political power. Presumably there was a period of time where Martian ships were the only Epstein drive powered ships in the system which would've given them a massive head start at exploiting the resources of the belt and the outer planets.They have the cutting edge tech for starships compared to Earth, but don't have an economy as large is the loose impression given in the books. Mars is tethered to the Earth because there is only one ecosystem that inherently has all of the biological resources needed for human life and you can't replace that, as hard as you might try. It's been briefly mentioned in the show (the preview scene from next episode also touches on it) but all the crops on Ganymede are heavily modified to grow in the colony, and even then require a massive system of complicated infrastructure to survive. Without biologicals from Earth, humanity would have a very difficult if not impossible time trying to feed everyone. So as much as Mars and the Belt hate it, they can't escape Earth's influence as the cradle of humanity.
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Mar 28, 2017 21:17
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It's almost like all 3 groups need to cooperate in order to have a functional society and economy.
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Mar 28, 2017 21:18
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Mar 28, 2017 21:27
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Smoke too much and her voice might start to sound odd.
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Mar 28, 2017 21:28
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Meanwhile Avasarala is eating two packs of menthols for lunch
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Mar 28, 2017 21:31
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That's just Shoreh Agdashloo. Listen to her in Mass Effect 2/3, she still sounds like she chugs Marlboros even through the Quarian voice filter.
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Mar 28, 2017 21:51
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I seem to recall an interview with her where she said she's had that voice since she was a young girl.
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Mar 28, 2017 21:52
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Number Ten Cocks posted:In 2015 the UN projected (see Total Population file) the population of Sub-saharan Africa to more than quadruple from now to 2100. It's now 962,287,000, they forecast 3,934,829,000. Do you think anyone is going to suggest those countries institute a 1-child policy or that they could succeed if they tried? That's still not even remotely enough to reach 30 billion. Africa is growing this fast because it's the last continent going through a demographic transition towards low birth and death rates (they'll get there by 2100). World population is most likely going to plateau at around 10 or 11 billion. Unless Hans Rosling is wrong. Number Ten Cocks posted:Apparently the current plan is for them and a big percentage of the Arab world to move to Europe and collect welfare, so the Expanse isn't even being foresighted here. Now, seriously? That's just racist bullshit. Edit: Here's a book with a plot like what you describe. Wikipedia posted:In 2001 the Southern Poverty Law Center described it as "widely revered by American white supremacists and is a sort of anti-immigration analog to The Turner Diaries," and as recently as October 2015 condemned the novel as "the favorite racist fantasy of the anti-immigrant movement in the US." gently caress that noise. Kassad fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Mar 28, 2017 |
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Mar 28, 2017 22:04
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Once the Nauvoo goes to another star system the Earth population will be back to 7 billion, hiyooo
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Mar 28, 2017 22:04
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Torpor posted:Sure, but those are not the 'oh gently caress we're gonna end up in a war' type diplomatic exchanges. You can listen to some EXCOMM tapes (from the Cuban Missile Crisis) from the oval office and they were cool as cucumbers. quote:In the first message, Khrushchev said this: "We and you ought not to pull on the ends of a rope which you have tied the knots of war. Because the more the two of us pull, the tighter the knot will be tied. And then it will be necessary to cut that knot, and what that would mean is not for me to explain to you. I have participated in two wars and know that war ends when it has rolled through cities and villages, everywhere sowing death and destruction. For such is the logic of war. If people do not display wisdom, they will clash like blind moles and then mutual annihilation will commence." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0suadZ6AmM&t=494s
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Mar 28, 2017 22:05
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Population size in The Expanse is one of those things I suspect the authors just don't have a good grasp of the scale of. Mars has two billion more people than modern day Earth, which just doesn't seem sustainable at all on a non-terraformed planet, and even a place like Eros has ten million in the books (the show dropped it to a, IMO, more sensible 150,000).
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Mar 29, 2017 01:40
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It's 4 billion for Mars and 1.5 million for Eros in the books. I don't know why they doubled Mars on the show while compressing the timeline; 4 billion already felt like a stretch.
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Mar 29, 2017 01:48
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Toast Museum posted:It's 4 billion for Mars and 1.5 million for Eros in the books. I don't know why they doubled Mars on the show while compressing the timeline; 4 billion already felt like a stretch.
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Mar 29, 2017 01:55
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I think Ceres is 10M in the books.
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Mar 29, 2017 02:00
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I believe it's around 6 million; the entire Belt (including outer moons) has maybe 70 million inhabitants.
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Mar 29, 2017 02:27
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In the book, at the start of the series, the numbers are: The Belt: 50 M–100 M Ceres: 6 M Eros: 500 k Tycho Station: 15 k Jovian moons: 45 M Saturnian moons: 20 M
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Mar 29, 2017 02:44
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Baronjutter posted:It's almost like all 3 groups need to cooperate in order to have a functional society and economy. Nah kill all inyalowdas *starves*
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Mar 29, 2017 10:07
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Baronjutter posted:NY is pretty different in the expanse. Both from sea level rise but also lots of street changes. It looks like they made their 3d model of NY mostly from scratch. I did a quick trace of the coastline. Shouldn't central park be visible in this shot? especially considering the other shot later that shows it still exists:
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Mar 29, 2017 11:59
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Syfy is now spoiling their own show. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUI6TRjxWiw Spoilers, obviously.
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Mar 29, 2017 16:52
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NZAmoeba posted:Shouldn't central park be visible in this shot? especially considering the other shot later that shows it still exists: Nope, that's Midtown, central park would just be a few blocks north juuuust cut off from the scene. If they had angled the camera down even just a couple degrees you'd have seen it, but they would have had to have rendered like 100x more stuff. I think they just have a more detailed model of midtown since that's where the UN is. Also I can see the empire state building so that's still around. Would be hundreds of years old at this point. Also lol bobby really showing off her 1g training. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Mar 29, 2017 |
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Mar 29, 2017 16:57
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