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Xealot posted:Somehow, the flagship warrior of the Heavenly City of K'un Lun, Immortal Weapon and Sworn Enemy of the Hand, is less hardcore about the Hand than some random dudes Stick works with. It's yet another thing that makes no sense. And as far as we know it's only Danny. Davos seems to immediately be on-board the 'Hand is bad we should kill them' train. So Danny somehow a) doesn't even believe the Hand is real and b) doesn't believe he should kill them despite being trained by people for the majority of his life that believe the Hand is real and should be killed.
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Mar 29, 2017 01:22
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Thaddius the Large posted:God, this was another thing that irritated the hell out of me. Joy complains about how hard it was to work her way up through the legal department and all, and I'm stuck wonder "you're what, 25 to 30, based on your age when Danny went missing, 15 years ago? So you're either fresh out of law school or have been practicing for less than 5 years, get a job at your family's company, and have 'worked your way up' to the head of the legal department, and you're whining it took people a long time to respect you? There are attorneys practicing for 20 years who'd kill to be in your shoes, nepotism notwithstanding!" I legit don't even remember Joy even mentioning being in the legal department, law school, etc... If true, shows how loving boring the first 2-3 episodes are.
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Mar 29, 2017 03:16
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It was a throwaway conversation with Ward early on, not anything of substance.
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Mar 29, 2017 03:18
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Finally got around to watching this after I binged on better call Saul s2. It's not as horrible as some paint it to be but it's pretty bad overall. Who makes a Kung fu series with lovely fight scenes and no Kung fu? Like wtf?
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Mar 29, 2017 03:30
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Astribulus posted:Danny alone has 51%. Ward and Joy have an unspecified large amount. The board couldn't do anything to them if they realized they could just say no. It's especially blatant bad writing since the board is trying to kick them out for Danny exercising that very same majority share. I'm kinda curious about this -- I would have thought there'd be some method for the board to stop even a majority owner from just doing whatever he wanted, in case you get some old rich guy literally going insane and ordering board meetings to be conducted naked or something. Kick him off the board and stop him from being able to make decisions, even though he'll still profit from the company. Is that not a thing at all? It seems like something they might have been able to do after Danny pisses away hundreds of millions of dollars in research on a whim, stop the crazy person from literally destroying the company.
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Mar 29, 2017 03:58
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Phenotype posted:I'm kinda curious about this -- I would have thought there'd be some method for the board to stop even a majority owner from just doing whatever he wanted, in case you get some old rich guy literally going insane and ordering board meetings to be conducted naked or something. Kick him off the board and stop him from being able to make decisions, even though he'll still profit from the company. Is that not a thing at all? It seems like something they might have been able to do after Danny pisses away hundreds of millions of dollars in research on a whim, stop the crazy person from literally destroying the company. Sure, the board votes to fire him which he loses that vote because everyone in that board room hates him, and then you have it in your corporate charter or shareholders agreements or wherever that major decisions like replacing a CEO require some kind of supermajority like two-thirds shareholders approval instead of just a majority. Depending on where you live requiring a supermajority on certain stuff may even be the law Saint Freak fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Mar 29, 2017 |
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Mar 29, 2017 04:31
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As long as he owns a majority of the voting shares he can more or less overrule the board. They'd most likely need to file an injunction and win a lawsuit to remove him from any sort of power, which would probably be both hard and time consuming. The stay in the psychiatric hospital would definitely help, but they certainly wouldn't be able to hold a single board meeting and bar him from even entering the building immediately afterwards. Almost everything business in the show is as bad as the fighting. They don't even meet the threshold of TV Law that Daredevil squeeked over in season 2.
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Mar 29, 2017 04:37
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Gyges posted:. They'd most likely need to file an injunction and win a lawsuit to remove him from any sort of power, which would probably be both hard and time consuming.
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Mar 29, 2017 04:49
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Gyges posted:As long as he owns a majority of the voting shares he can more or less overrule the board. They'd most likely need to file an injunction and win a lawsuit to remove him from any sort of power, which would probably be both hard and time consuming. The stay in the psychiatric hospital would definitely help, but they certainly wouldn't be able to hold a single board meeting and bar him from even entering the building immediately afterwards. The board vote is just 1 vote per person in that room. They do overrule him until he has a shareholder meeting and replaces all of them IF 51% is enough to do so.
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Mar 29, 2017 04:54
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homullus posted:I don't think it needed a great bad guy if the environment or the hero's own demons and perspective are obstacle enough (cf. Legion). A man presumed dead and returning to New York with a 4th grade education, a sense of self-doubt, and many groups trying to use him doesn't need Mysterio McVillain to struggle against if the show's done right. I think it does need a great villain. Nearly every great movie and show has a great villain. Everyone agrees that DD S1 is the best Marvel show. Oh look it's the loving Kingpin. Jessica Jones is great too. Oh poo poo it's the Purple Man. Best part of DD S2? Punisher. Die Hard. BTTF. No Country For Old Men, Gladiator, Aliens, Predator, Commando, Dark Knight Rises, Whiplash, Wrath of Khan, Star Wars. Oddly enough the Marvel films succeed in spite of the villains, who are generally a bit weak BUT they do have them and they are WELL-DEFINED. Maybe Iron Fist could have succeeded if the villain was a theme (though that's really hard to pull off) but they didn't try, they had no defined villain and it helped to torpedo the whole show. The show would have been much better if Harold was the main villain and antagonist throughout. I thought that maybe his repeated punching of the bag and all the work out equipment meant he was going to be a power house. NOPE just a middle aged dude trying to keep fit haha. What the gently caress.
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Mar 29, 2017 04:56
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Xealot posted:Somehow, the flagship warrior of the Heavenly City of K'un Lun, Immortal Weapon and Sworn Enemy of the Hand, is less hardcore about the Hand than some random dudes Stick works with. It's yet another thing that makes no sense. In the tournament, Karaoke Guy threw out a line like 'weapons don't have feelings', or something. (I can't remember the exact quote). Danny is supposed to be a living weapon, but he's not supposed to be all angry and emotional about it. My understanding was that it wasn't so much about not killing, it was that killing-while-upset would gently caress up his Chi.
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Mar 29, 2017 05:04
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While Harold may have been a great villain , I think Gao also would've served well as the Big Bad. If she wasn't obviously being reserved for Defenders/DDs3/Iron Fist S2, it would be interesting to see how she first became involved with The Hand. We're being told a lot about her past, but we haven't actually seen it. If K'un Lun is basically Heaven, was she at one point not a evil drug pusher? Did something happen that changed her? How did she become involved with The Hand? I mean yeah, Daredevil S1 and 2 don't show us much either, but she was obviously being introduced to be expanded on later. Now we've seen her 13 or so times across three different series (DD1+2 and Iron Fist 1) and we basically no nothing about her backstory.
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Mar 29, 2017 05:06
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I thought Harold might try to figure out how to steal or replicate the Iron Fist powers, or acquire something that would lead to a surprisingly evenly matched finale fight. Swinging pipes around is fine too, probably.
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Mar 29, 2017 05:07
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I liked Harold when he was a dick ally, makin his son dump bodies and stuff
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Mar 29, 2017 05:28
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you guys still whining about not enjoying a good tv show?
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Mar 29, 2017 06:26
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BSam posted:you guys still whining about not enjoying a good tv show? No, we're talking about Iron Fist
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Mar 29, 2017 06:28
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I thought in DD Gao was Triads and Nobu was the Hand. She wasn't presented as the Hand in DD was she?BSam posted:you guys still whining about not enjoying a good tv show? Christ if you think this is good TV I don't wanna imagine what your bad TV is.
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Mar 29, 2017 06:29
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Venuz Patrol posted:i dont like matt's no kill rule either, because the writers kept finding excuses to off characters they wanted to stop being part of the story anyway. the episode he spends with the russian taxi gangster hostage that he refuses to kill despite getting his rear end kicked by him multiple times was great, but then he finally wins the gangster's trust and the guy.... wanders off to die anyway? immediately? Karen is really hosed up in Season 2 from it and this is why she takes Frank Castle's side of things. Like its a actual character pivoting point and it's hammered home pretty clearly when Frank implies that he understood that she would have no problem killing him and many different moments during the season. She is not 100% okay with it. Her support of Castle makes total sense when frame with the background that she murdered a guy. Season 2 of Daredevil is a little uneven but I still think it's a very well done season.
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Mar 29, 2017 06:30
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Alan_Shore posted:I thought in DD Gao was Triads and Nobu was the Hand. She wasn't presented as the Hand in DD was she? Another Period, Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt.
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Mar 29, 2017 06:38
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BiggerBoat posted:I have no intention of watching what is, from all accounts, a huge pile of garbage but I was curious about the costume too. I mean, he never even got to wear at least a yellow head scarf and a green v-neck body suit? What a strange decision to not at least use that ensemble once. I was wondering why I hadn't seen any promo shots of Iron Fist in his full get up with his fist glowing. I guess they don't exist which is a shame because Iron Fist's costume is kinda cool. The season 1 costume was bang on. That's the Frank Miller "Man In Black" costume. Like this.  So, yeah, let's reserve the costume commentary then.
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Mar 29, 2017 06:56
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Pretty sure "suit reveal" is referring to the final red costume in season one of DD. Which wasn't great.
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Mar 29, 2017 06:59
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Snak posted:Pretty sure "suit reveal" is referring to the final red costume in season one of DD. Which wasn't great. If that is the reference, okay, I WILL grant that.
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Mar 29, 2017 07:13
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I'm not sure why Coleen carries around a sword if she literally never kills anyone with it. Even in the big fight with Batou's henchmen all she did was pommel knockout that goon. I rolled my eyes when they were in China and she had a sword fight with the Chinese lady.
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Mar 29, 2017 08:08
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Show is so bad I had to look up who Hogarth is.
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Mar 29, 2017 10:23
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so the way they set up the story in the iron fist show there's no way to introduce orson Randall or any of the iron fists that left because the show establishes that a) Danny is the first foreign born iron fist and b) the first to leave the magic city I don't understand why they didn't just adapt the Ed Brubaker run even on a low budget would have been better than this poo poo. Then again I don't understand why they didn't just straight up adapt the Jessica Jones comic either. Most of the changes they made have been real dumb.
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Mar 29, 2017 11:36
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Mr President posted:so the way they set up the story in the iron fist show there's no way to introduce orson Randall or any of the iron fists that left because the show establishes that a) Danny is the first foreign born iron fist and b) the first to leave the magic city well, technically they could because obviously those were all secret iron fist leavers. so danny could find the iron fist book of secrets and learn about it etc
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Mar 29, 2017 11:59
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Saint Freak posted:And as far as we know it's only Danny. Davos seems to immediately be on-board the 'Hand is bad we should kill them' train. So Danny somehow a) doesn't even believe the Hand is real and b) doesn't believe he should kill them despite being trained by people for the majority of his life that believe the Hand is real and should be killed. I kind of figured it was "no murder" vs "no killing" type deal. Killing in battle is one thing, but setting out to assassinate someone is gonna bruise your soul a bit. But then, like in DD, they abandon the idea of having any kind of moral complexity.
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Mar 29, 2017 13:05
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Demiurge4 posted:I'm not sure why Coleen carries around a sword if she literally never kills anyone with it. Even in the big fight with Batou's henchmen all she did was pommel knockout that goon. I rolled my eyes when they were in China and she had a sword fight with the Chinese lady. Well as a martial arts instructor and fight club enthusiast, the code of Bushido states that
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Mar 29, 2017 13:42
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The Bushido "code" is not a written code ( the writers don't know this) it's a unwritten list of specific virtues. One of which is dispensing justice. There just really wasn't even any research at all. Especially with Danny. He never once in any of his fights in a Kung Fu stance or any other stance other than " MMA ".
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Mar 29, 2017 14:03
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Alan_Shore posted:I think it does need a great villain. Nearly every great movie and show has a great villain. I agree that a great villain is valuable, but you're very wrong about their necessity. Citizen Kane. Casablanca. Lawrence of Arabia. The Godfather. 2001. The Sixth Sense. Gravity. It's not hard to think of great movies and shows without a central antagonist. Protagonists need interesting resistance, and villains are often, but not "nearly always," that obstacle.
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Mar 29, 2017 14:32
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The other half of that is that your protagonist actually has to be a good.
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Mar 29, 2017 14:42
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Max posted:The other half of that is that your protagonist actually has to be a good. Your protagonist and the obstacles they face both need to be good for a good show. Marvel's Iron Fist: Not a Good Show.
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Mar 29, 2017 14:44
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homullus posted:I agree that a great villain is valuable, but you're very wrong about their necessity. Citizen Kane. Casablanca. Lawrence of Arabia. The Godfather. 2001. The Sixth Sense. Gravity. It's not hard to think of great movies and shows without a central antagonist. Protagonists need interesting resistance, and villains are often, but not "nearly always," that obstacle. Sure, but we're talking about a Marvel comic book show on Netflix, where the whole dynamic is literally heroes versus villains with some life/humanity spice dashed around. If you're expecting Sin City or Logan or Preacher out of a Netflix show, you gotta lower your expectations. Protagonists as super heroes might not come up against interesting villains in every comic, but they absolutely "nearly always" have their antithesis or signature villain. I can't really think of many heroes that don't have a nemesis. Bottom line is villains are necessary to super heroes, not newspaper magnates, night club owners, lieutenants, gangsters, computers, ghosts, or spacemen. Edit: as well, the movies dude references are action movies. Of course Casablanca doesn't need a central villain. But a superhero tv show sure as poo poo does. At least one that is defined in some sort of way that doesn't trip over itself and become less scary as the show goes on. Also, Kegslayer posted:Well as a martial arts instructor and fight club enthusiast, the code of Bushido states that I like how you predicted the  , then it happened. 
Kabuki Shipoopi fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Mar 29, 2017 |
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Mar 29, 2017 15:27
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Kabuki Shipoopi posted:Sure, but we're talking about a Marvel comic book show on Netflix, where the whole dynamic is literally heroes versus villains with some life/humanity spice dashed around. If you're expecting Sin City or Logan or Preacher out of a Netflix show, you gotta lower your expectations. I agree that you're not going to see many superhero comics without a central antagonist (although, again, Watchmen), especially not long-running ones, but Netflix shows aren't long-running series, they're one- or two-arc stories, and the majority of the ones we've seen are origin stories, where you really do not need a nemesis, only conflict.
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Mar 29, 2017 15:37
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But his entire origin is about fighting his nemesis. That's his sole purpose. I think they did a good job with not explicitly having a nemesis front and center in Jessica Jones. They hinted at it for a while, and without even showing him, they created this sheer terror and we didn't even see him until later on in the series. And besides, the nemesis is inherent in the character, so why not build upon that in some way? I agree that the show would have been better had they focused on Danny's training, escape from kunlun, being a monk CEO, and adapting to life in NYC 2017 with this undercurrent of The Hand menacing about rather than what we got. At some point, a nemesis is necessary in super hero shows. Maybe not season 1, but eventually. And to reiterate, especially when the hero wouldn't be who he is if his nemesis didn't exist.
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Mar 29, 2017 16:08
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Jessica Jones is definitely the best of the three.
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Mar 29, 2017 16:45
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marktheando posted:About kidnapping Gao- I'm reasonably sure that if it's a private corporate jet landing at a private airstrip it wouldn't have to go through passport control/airport security. Maybe not in general, but Gao has been using Rand transportation resources for years by the time the show starts. There's probably another Rand corporate jet parked at the same airport they landed at. If some official wants to check in with her, they just say "she's not feeling well and is asleep. Do you really want us to wake her up ?" They should be embarrassed to have aired those fight scenes in 2017.
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Mar 29, 2017 17:11
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mllaneza posted:They should be embarrassed to have aired those fight scenes in 2017.
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Mar 29, 2017 17:20
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Mr President posted:so the way they set up the story in the iron fist show there's no way to introduce orson Randall or any of the iron fists that left because the show establishes that a) Danny is the first foreign born iron fist and b) the first to leave the magic city Orson Randall was born in K'un-Lun after his dad crashed the family airship into the city. Also the whole thing with Orson was that everyone thought he was dead, which was the only reason he managed to not be dead. The weird thing I caught was that Danny was apparently raised by the monks of the order of the Crane Mother. So maybe he was intentionally raised to be a terrible Iron Fist?
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Mar 29, 2017 18:54
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Gyges posted:The weird thing I caught was that Danny was apparently raised by the monks of the order of the Crane Mother. So maybe he was intentionally raised to be a terrible Iron Fist? yeah, I didn't understand that either. Why was Danny raised by the order of the Crane Mother?
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Mar 29, 2017 18:57
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