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Is Communism good? This poll is closed. |
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375 | 66.25% |
| No |
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191 | 33.75% |
| Total: | 523 votes | ||
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Cerebral Bore posted:You mean the central planning that took the USSR from a burned-down peasant country to the world's second industrial superpower in ~30 years and this with the most destructive war in modern history throwing a spanner in the works? that was actually the NEP which wasn't centrally planned
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Mar 29, 2017 21:00
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Central planning can work, but the Soviet Union's implementation of it was clunky at best and hamstrung by corruption and waste. We're in a far better position now in terms of technology to make it work, but I'm not entirely sure a completely centrally planned topdown command economy or the like is necessary or indeed desirable. I don't trust the state to collectivize and administrate the economy any more than I trust corporations to do so, I reckon collective ownership and administration should be undertaken directly by an organized workforce otherwise you just end up with an unaccountable, bureaucratized elite running poo poo into the ground or abusing it to pad their own pockets.
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Mar 29, 2017 21:01
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Fiction posted:the chinese government still owns pretty much all the land and their mixed economy is way more mixed than most other nations even now. also quasi central control over that economy means they're better equipped than the US to handle, say, a climate catastrophe that would require the government to be able to enact economic change instead of having the corporations pay you off to legislate how they want you to... really? you think the chinese model of governance would be more robust in the event of a disaster that removes the top leadership than the US? the one with absolutely zero democratic participation? christ lol
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Mar 29, 2017 21:02
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:that was actually the NEP which wasn't centrally planned I suppose it explains a lot if you're not even aware of when industrialization really took off in the USSR. EDIT: Like, the book to read is right here. Cerebral Bore fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Mar 29, 2017 |
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Mar 29, 2017 21:02
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Cerebral Bore posted:I suppose it explains a lot if you're not even aware of when industrialization really took off in the USSR. im sorry friend but rapid industrialisation would never be possible without the economic recovery provided by the NEP and the state seizing the resources of the kulaks, very reminiscent of hitler seizing jewish funds by the way
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Mar 29, 2017 21:05
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:it also fractures your country into tiny pieces or forces you to switch to a free market model in the long term so that's good Because megacorporations aren't a thing.
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Mar 29, 2017 21:06
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:very reminiscent of hitler seizing jewish funds by the way hey as a jew go gently caress yourself for trying to compare an innocent ethnic group to some landlords who would kill their own livestock before they allowed it to be taken away lol
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Mar 29, 2017 21:12
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Fiction posted:hey really? you think all the NEP traders and farmers were criminals that deserved having their assets seized and starving to death or being executed? it's incredible that people itt are literally posting soviet propaganda from the cold war period lmao. "kill their own livestock before they allowed it to be taken away"
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Mar 29, 2017 21:14
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Nice retard edge, let me try as well Jews would sooner choose to starve to death than donate their golden teeth to the national war effort, gently caress them.
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Mar 29, 2017 21:14
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If you're not willing to expropriate you gotta get out of the Marxist kitchen.
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Mar 29, 2017 21:16
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If those Jews are not going to let loose of their hoarded private property for the benefit of the people, there needs to be some solution to the problem.
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Mar 29, 2017 21:17
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Fiction posted:If you're not willing to expropriate you gotta get out of the Marxist kitchen. "all the starved ethnic minority farmers that managed to get a little bit rich during the NEP and then got killed are just necessary losses in our path to communism" - an actual unironic western man tyool 2017
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Mar 29, 2017 21:16
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steinrokkan posted:If those Jews are not going to let loose of their hoarded private property for the benefit of the people, there needs to be some solution to the problem. you have a tenuous grasp of history
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Mar 29, 2017 21:18
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If you are not willing to contribute your labor to the state in the gulag, you need to give up your privileges.
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Mar 29, 2017 21:19
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Fiction posted:you have a tenuous grasp of history  lmbo
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Mar 29, 2017 21:19
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Fiction posted:you have a tenuous grasp of history At least I don't believe petty farmers are enemies of the people for trying to hold onto the things keeping them alive (and for good reasons, as the famines prove).
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Mar 29, 2017 21:20
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You're not supposed to ironicat yourself.
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Mar 29, 2017 21:22
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The bolsheviks were a bunch of backstabbing, paranoid, powerhungry assholes in the years immediately after the civil war and no-one should earnestly attempt to rehabilitate that poo poo because it does the case for communism more harm than good.
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Mar 29, 2017 21:22
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Cerebral Bore posted:You're not supposed to ironicat yourself. please tell me more about how insanely good stalin was and how we should all follow his example
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Mar 29, 2017 21:23
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Hm, but as the champion of the workers I believe we must launch a wholesale slaughter of those feeding the entire nation while suffering the most hardship of all classes. It's me, the bourgie intellectual cum stalinist
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Mar 29, 2017 21:24
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TomViolence posted:The bolsheviks were a bunch of backstabbing, paranoid, powerhungry assholes in the years immediately after the civil war and no-one should earnestly attempt to rehabilitate that poo poo because it does the case for communism more harm than good. yeah i should clarify that when stalin deported all those ethnic minorities and basically chewed up and spat out the peasantry for daring to resist him...that was not good taking boug farms and land though...that's very good.
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Mar 29, 2017 21:25
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:please tell me more about how insanely good stalin was and how we should all follow his example Given your grasp on Soviet history it's not surprising that you believe this.
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Mar 29, 2017 21:26
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Fiction posted:yeah i should clarify that when stalin deported all those ethnic minorities and basically chewed up and spat out the peasantry for daring to resist him...that was not good it's unfortunate that the three sets "ethnic minorities" and "bougie farmers" and "peasants" happened to overlap so much huh you realise the kulaks were peasants right?
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Mar 29, 2017 21:28
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Stalin was actually a humanitarian, as proved by the fact that his death toll is lower than Hitler's.
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Mar 29, 2017 21:27
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:it's unfortunate that the two sets "ethnic minorities" and "bougie farmers" and "peasants" happened to overlap so much huh yea that's why i tried to clarify. stalin killed a ton of people he didn't have to because he was paranoid as gently caress and also wanted to consolidate all political power around himself. same with mao. it doesn't matter anyway because the petty bourg is shrinking pretty quickly these days. but the idea of taking their stuff was never a bad idea, stalin was just a murderous dickhead.
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Mar 29, 2017 21:28
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Fiction posted:yea that's why i tried to clarify. stalin killed a ton of people he didn't have to because he was paranoid as gently caress and also wanted to consolidate all political power around himself. same with mao. Nice backpedaling, bro.
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Mar 29, 2017 21:29
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The free market is inherently superior as a model for distributing resources, which is why Sears dominates the American retail market, unlike all the fools who plan things in the rest of the business world.
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Mar 29, 2017 21:33
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Yeah, state-planning (Gosplan) and ownership existed during the NEP period. Also, the Soviet Union almost certainly needed crash industrialization by the mid-1920s and the state needed a greater share of agricultural output...pretty much everything else is heavily debatable.
Ardennes fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Mar 29, 2017 |
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Mar 29, 2017 21:36
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:it also fractures your country into tiny pieces or forces you to switch to a free market model in the long term so that's good hi my name us bulgogi hoagie i have no knowledge of soviet nation-building and ethnography whatsoever, please listen to my poo poo opinions
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Mar 29, 2017 21:39
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Ardennes posted:Yeah, state-planning (Gosplan) and ownership existed during the NEP period. Also, the Soviet Union almost certainly needed crash industrialization by the mid-1920s...pretty much everything else is heavily debatable. so we agree that full on central planning economy with no free market whatsoever is really bad? im glad lenin himself planned to have NEP for several decades at least
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Mar 29, 2017 21:39
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You'd think the USSR would be homophobic enough for Bulgogi Hoagie to love them, but I guess lack of homelessness is the real dealbreaker.
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Mar 29, 2017 21:40
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Coohoolin posted:hi my name us bulgogi hoagie i have no knowledge of soviet nation-building and ethnography whatsoever, please listen to my poo poo opinions hi my name is cooholin i'm an american who literally believes the propaganda of a state that failed so badly it no longer exists and then slams an actual ethnic russian for having the wrong opinions about said state lol
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Mar 29, 2017 21:40
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I mean sure there are companies with employees numbering several times the population of iceland that somehow don't operate on some kind of per-building feudal system but central planning clearly cannot work on a national level.
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Mar 29, 2017 21:41
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:hi my name is cooholin i'm an american who literally believes the propaganda of a state that failed so badly it no longer exists and then slams an actual ethnic russian for having the wrong opinions about said state lol Well, given that you seem to think your line of descent gives you inherently truthful beliefs, I guess I'm just of inferior blood and can't match wits lmfao.
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Mar 29, 2017 21:42
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people now arguing itt that corporations are exactly the same as a soviet centrally planned economy lol
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Mar 29, 2017 21:42
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:people now arguing itt that corporations are exactly the same as a soviet centrally planned economy lol They aren't free markets. Guess we don't have the right blood quantum to understand your posts, though!
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Mar 29, 2017 21:44
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:people now arguing itt that corporations are exactly the same as a soviet centrally planned economy lol What do you think "collectivism" means and what do you think a corporation is, lol.
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Mar 29, 2017 21:45
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Brainiac Five posted:Well, given that you seem to think your line of descent gives you inherently truthful beliefs, I guess I'm just of inferior blood and can't match wits lmfao. my line of descent means jack poo poo but me having grown up in russia and having gone through it's systems may have something to do with you хуйло поганое
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Mar 29, 2017 21:45
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:hi my name is cooholin i'm an american who literally believes the propaganda of a state that failed so badly it no longer exists and then slams an actual ethnic russian for having the wrong opinions about said state lol лол, ты ватник
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Mar 29, 2017 21:45
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:my line of descent means jack poo poo but me having grown up in russia and having gone through it's systems may have something to do with you хуйло поганое How old are you? Are you confusing communist Russia with the Russia we pillaged the economy of?
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Mar 29, 2017 21:47
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