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JT Jag posted:I'd say "a live subject for interrogation" if I wasn't reasonably sure that Dominate outright destroys the target's mind the moment it succeeds (thus the permanent control). There actually is a way for the control to end without killing the target. If the psi trooper controlling the enemy evacs, it reverts to hostile.
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Mar 23, 2017 10:41
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sincx posted:I used a dominated Gatekeeper as part of my forces during the final mission and it ended up reanimating a dead Avatar to be under my control (but with only regular psi zombie abilities) when I used its AOE. I had no idea that was possible. For the purposes of that ability, a human-scale corpse is a corpse, doesn't matter where it came from. I swear I've seen those bastards kill and animate civilians if there were troops near them, but don't quote me on that.
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Mar 23, 2017 12:59
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Uhh, Manwhore? You're a little bit on fire there? No? Okay.
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Mar 23, 2017 13:47
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Hunt11 posted:Obviously that is the case as you left 7 guys with under 10hp alive until almost the end of a turn. Also damage worries? With a single weapon mod like dragonfire rounds or whatever fanfare does 12-21 damage, more then enough to put almost anything down. If that is not enough then using the rest of the gunslinger tree you can add another two shots to the mix. Also a gunslinger can use face off to help deal with massed enemies with no ammo cost and can be used more often the serial. Yeah I left 7 guys at under 10hp because I knew I had 100% odds to kill all of them. Wow, 20 damage! Spending an action to deal 20 damage to one target isn't anything special. Chain Shot, Rapid Fire, and Overdrive can all do 20 damage to a single target, and Chain Shot will be shredding armor at the same time (and loses less damage when shooting armored targets since armor is applied twice to it instead of three times), while Rapid Fire will almost certainly do tons more than 20, and proc Implacable and Untouchable at the same time. Doing 20 damage to a single target isn't unique or exceptional. Heck, even sharpshooters can almost deal 20 damage to a single target just by using lightning hands and a normal sniper rifle shot, and they don't need their colonel-level perk to do it. What no other class can do is pour damage into so many enemies regardless of the distance between them. That's 100% unique. As for Face Off, it's a poor comparison to Serial. It does way less damage per target (so is weaker vs. armor and is more likely to just clone a Codex instead of killing it) and doesn't work through Squadsight (so you're likely to either have fewer targets you can shoot or else not be able to benefit from the height advantage bonus). It's true Serial needs an expanded magazine to really shine, but sharpshooters already benefit heavily from bigger clips for Kill Zone and general sniping anyway, so it's not like you're unlikely to have expanded mags on your sharpshooter already.
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Mar 23, 2017 18:05
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Since we are starting to see this happen and the question is bound to come up. Yes you can mind control Advent Officers. No. You can't use his mark ability 
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Mar 23, 2017 20:04
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I don't like that cyberdisks are fortune tellers now. Although I guess it makes sense that they are crystal balls...
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Mar 23, 2017 20:08
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HOOLY BOOLY posted:Since we are starting to see this happen and the question is bound to come up. Yes you can mind control Advent Officers. No. You can't use his mark ability Officers are like one of the worst things to control considering they lose access to mark. Andromedons are my personal favorite though, cause if they die you can just hack them!
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Mar 23, 2017 20:23
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Garrand posted:RE the stock, was it the dominated guy? He never actually died but the mission ended with him under your control. I don't know how the game treats dominated units.  . Although it's how the original plays out...
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Mar 23, 2017 20:40
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Brainamp posted:Andromedons are my personal favorite though, cause if they die you can just hack them! Also because they're walking grenades who, with judicious use of waypoints, can expose most of an enemy pod by crashing through their cover, and then absorb a huge amount of enemy fire with their armor to serve you longer.
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Mar 23, 2017 20:41
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So, we're not going to clean up the shattered glass in the Shadow Chamber? Or is that job being given to our recently mind controlled Advent Trooper?
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Mar 23, 2017 20:53
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AradoBalanga posted:So, we're not going to clean up the shattered glass in the Shadow Chamber? Or is that job being given to our recently mind controlled Advent Trooper? No, send the mind-controlled Trooper into the nearest city to buy everyone on the Avenger ADVENT-burgers!
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Mar 23, 2017 21:24
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Garrand posted:RE the stock, was it the dominated guy? He never actually died but the mission ended with him under your control. I don't know how the game treats dominated units. Was I the only one who saw a stock in the loot portion of the after action screen? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, but the word stock was under the Loot category.
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Mar 23, 2017 21:32
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Jade Star posted:Not shown in this video because gently caress ever letting gatekeepers do something Yes, that is the correct way to deal with gatekeepers. Their AOE damage+reanimate attack is a real menace in city maps because the gatekeeper will happily target a group of civilians. This makes it the only thing in the game that will deliberately target civilians (well, except for Jade Star). I've seen one kill a VIP that was still under alien control, resulting in an immediate mission failure. Ouch. That 40% defense is also a bit of a pain. If only there were some way to have a soldier with the accuracy of a sniper who could shoot it 5 times in one turn. The only other correct way to deal with them is to dominate them. It's a bit tricky due to their high will, but a flashbang really helps here. They'll completely wreck aliens - especially advent - if they are on XCOM's side. The aliens just don't have a good way to deal with all the bullshit the gatekeeper can do. Jade Star posted:When that is on cool down they will simply psi lance people for varying damage somewhere in the 7-12 range. As a Psi attack it of course ignores cover and the only defense you have against it is willpower. Not entirely true. The gatekeeper's beam attack does explosive damage for some reason. That means grenadiers with Blast Padding will take very little damage. Or at least they would do, if anyone ever took Blast Padding instead of Shredder. And just in case you thought psi soldiers weren't overpowered, think about what that beam would do to a psi with the Fortress skill.
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Mar 23, 2017 22:18
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Mzbundifund posted:Yeah I left 7 guys at under 10hp because I knew I had 100% odds to kill all of them. I should have been more precise. Using fan fire consumes a single action point. Meaning that a Gunslinger can activate it first and then shoot again. Another point of note, if we are comparing damage from a Gunslinger doing all they can to kill a target the damage is actually 20-35 by using both Lightning Hands and Quick Draw. In terms of Face Off vs. Serial I don't think you want to bring Codexes into the equation as Face Off is an excellent tool to use to deal with surviving clones. More crucially though, a single dodge or min damage roll and the entire chain is broken whilst Face Off ensures that almost every enemy in range is shot.
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Mar 23, 2017 22:27
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I have been reading random Soldier Bios yesterday, and one of them Mentions the "Kiryu-Kai Disaster", apart from the fact that this soldier was Born in 2007 and the bio makes clear the disaster was a pre-war Xcom operation and the Soldier in question was a Ranking Officer.  is this something that really existed in the original, or is this a reference to Guava's LP? 
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Mar 23, 2017 23:51
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Hunt11 posted:More crucially though, a single dodge or min damage roll and the entire chain is broken whilst Face Off ensures that almost every enemy in range is shot. And any dodge, or just any hit against a non-near death codex with face off just results in more codexes. Codacies... Also yes, The Kiryu-Kai Disaster is entirely from Guava's LP. The Kiryu-Kai was a thing in Gollops backstory; Japan tried intercepting UFO's on its own before the formation of X-com and that project was the Kiryu-Kai. The Kiryu-Kai Disaster was Guava making a secondary base in Japan and then over running it with like 50 chrysalids.
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Mar 24, 2017 00:25
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Jade Star posted:And any dodge, or just any hit against a non-near death codex with face off just results in more codexes. Codacies... What I'm getting out of this compelling argument is that no matter what you go with, gently caress Codexes.
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Mar 24, 2017 00:41
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All the fucks are reserved for Gatekeepers.
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Mar 24, 2017 00:44
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ah, nice to Know, also i just learned, if you google "kiryu-kai", Guavas LP is like the Second or Third entry. Famous Google Dude, i guess. back to the LP, i initially played to this game when it came out and never much played around with the Special Grenades, especially Flashbangs. same for most of the Special Ammo types, i used one, maybe two of them. pretty much just Brute Forced every encounter with liberal use of Frag/Plasma Grenades and random acts of vandalism. so thank you for teaching me how awesome the Flashbang is, especially against Codexi-thingis. I never leave the Avenger without at least one. Sometime i use them to activate a pod, but usually only when it is just three oder four Codex(es) i miss the Douchedisks, Gatekeepers are just not the same level of dickishness.
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Mar 24, 2017 00:54
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Kasrkin posted:ah, nice to Know, also i just learned, if you google "kiryu-kai", Guavas LP is like the Second or Third entry. Famous Google Dude, i guess. I'm still only really using the Flashbang (for the early game, where it's an easy way to get rid of Psi-zombies), and Acid Bombs, personally. I never quite found any of the other grenades (barring the standard nades and the obviously overpowered frost bomb, of course) as useful.
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Mar 24, 2017 00:59
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Yami Fenrir posted:I'm still only really using the Flashbang (for the early game, where it's an easy way to get rid of Psi-zombies), and Acid Bombs, personally. I never quite found any of the other grenades (barring the standard nades and the obviously overpowered frost bomb, of course) as useful. Incendiary grenades can be pretty good, especially if you're having trouble rolling the acid bomb. The Gatekeeper feels to me like it's the resident Ethereal equivalent more than a cyberdisk or bio-drone, since the more traditional analog doesn't show up until it's triggered by specific plot and the gatekeeper relies more on psionic powers than guns.
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Mar 24, 2017 01:04
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Kasrkin posted:ah, nice to Know, also i just learned, if you google "kiryu-kai", Guavas LP is like the Second or Third entry. Famous Google Dude, i guess. I'm not terribly surprised at that. I had to dig pretty deep into X-COM history and lore to find the one passing mention of Kiryu-Kai. I think it was pretty lucky that I still have all the manuals and fluff that came with my XCOM games since I've lost nearly everything else for every other game I had from that era. I read all of it before starting my LPs and borrowed a lot of ideas from it. Did Enforcer have anything cool with it in the box? I never got that one retail.
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Mar 24, 2017 02:12
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It's just a cube with infinite sides
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Mar 24, 2017 02:43
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 Operation Shambling Fire So first warning is the commentary might seem a little off. Thats just cause my video player hitched a couple of times for a fraction of a second and that may have thrown my reaction timing to the video off a tiny bit. I doubt that'll be very noticeable. Additionally Skype wasn't at it's best so there are a few times when we don't hear each other clearly. Again, probably shouldn't be too noticeable except for one time I think i directly repeat guava cause I couldn't hear what he said. Let's talk about that UFO eh? Nice interception course. 13k miles in 19 hours. Good job aliens, ever heard of a straight line? I mean i guess it might have been a straight line, just wrapping around the globe a bit but still, come on, fix your game Jake. In any case the UFO defense mission isn't so bad, I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as the base defense mission in the first game. The ramp is nicely supplied with a lot of half cover and several high cover spots and local terrain usually provides the rest that you'll need for the mission. The enemies follow normal pod activation and reinforcement rules, so there is no more mutons out the air vents or other unexpected problems like the first games mission. It's really more of an endurance mission rather than a panicked defense mission. The mission requires you to push forward toward the other side of the map while almost always simultaneously dealing with pods and/or reinforcements. There is never a turn when there isn't something to shoot. That isn't too terrible though, the reinforcements start out pretty weak, a dropship landing an officer and a trooper isn't something that's going to cause serious problems by this point in the game. Really it's about making constant progress down the map, something I take my sweet time with at the start of the mission because unexpected pod activations happen. If I can manage to handle 3 pods at once though that is the absolute worst the mission was going to throw at me and I managed fine, despite putting Julian into the potential range of another Andromedan shot killing him. It's never particularly fun being in the range where a soldier can die from just two hits. RIP Angry Lobster. This late in the game I'd have thought all the armor and HP we had that I'd have a bit more durability. Guava is mostly right that if you're a little more inclined to being aggressive this mission doesn't need to last as long as I took. I was enjoying just killing things as they came in through, and if some of my over watch traps had worked better then I would have had a chance at turns where there was no activate enemies on the map and I could have dashed forward at my leisure. That didn't ever turn out to be the case and so I took the cautious approach and killed everything that came my way as I inched down the map. The retreat is a lot easier though! As Guava mentioned if you dash away from hostiles they usually have to dash to keep up with you and if they dash then they aren't shooting you. As long as you don't leave a straggler as the only reachable target then the retreat is pretty easy. In a larger picture of things, I probably should have planned ahead better. Leaving the Shadow Chamber projects alone for so long has created kind of a backlog on plot missions. A lot of the story and suspense is found in the research scenes, the resulting missions, and the unexpected troubles they cause (like the first codex showing up as you stab a dude in the skull). I regret not pacing that out better as it seems we're about to break full sprint into the end of the game by slamming out all the shadow chamber research in the course of the next month. My bad. Jade Star fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Mar 30, 2017 |
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Mar 30, 2017 05:19
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Just a heads up that the link is to the wrong video.
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Mar 30, 2017 05:23
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The UFO defence mission is a lot more difficult if it is also your first ever introduction to the Archon King. RIP so many men.
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Mar 30, 2017 05:28
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Fuuuuuuuuuck how do these links keep breaking
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Mar 30, 2017 05:28
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 I feel like anything is appropriate for the blank here.
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Mar 30, 2017 06:26
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Do Face Off and Shredder stack? It would have much more utility like that, especially with a complimentary ammo. P.S. They have had 9 votes now to repeal Obamacare (America Cares Act), Trumpcare was just the latest to be defeated. The repeal will be back, again and again, until Republicans can vote people to death.
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Mar 30, 2017 06:38
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I'm half expecting a soldier named Shield Bearer to show up in the roster sometime in the future now.
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Mar 30, 2017 06:44
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EoRaptor posted:Do Face Off and Shredder stack? It would have much more utility like that, especially with a complimentary ammo. Shredder explicitly states that the shredding effect only applies to main weapon attacks. In this case only sniper rifle shots. Kind of why I was groaning that Duke got Shredder because it does a pistol focused marksman no good except for the rare time you may actually use the rifle.
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Mar 30, 2017 06:53
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Time to swap roles.
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Mar 30, 2017 06:57
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Was/will it mention what happened to the back of Tygon's head? He's got a couple nasty scars.
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Mar 30, 2017 07:13
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That was explained a long time ago and partially through the little dialog blurbs you get while moving about the Avenger. Tygan had a chip in the back of his head like all human Advent citizens(or maybe just employees) have. When he defected and got out of Advent he preformed self-surgery to remove it. The scarring is because he was digging out something from the back of his his own head.
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Mar 30, 2017 07:16
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The whole latter half I was going 'Just use your snipers to kill the objective, why isn't he using his snipers to kill the objective?'
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Mar 30, 2017 08:10
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I love the Avenger Defense Mission, its just all the ADVENT, all the time. Its kind of hilarious, that the UFO always takes the scenic route to catch up to you, i always thought it was just me, because of the mod that make the Avenger move faster on the screen and the ufo needs to mechanically catch up. Last time i got the defense mission, it was REALLY late game, like all plasma colonels, staffed and upgraded defense matrix, so i thought i take her out for a drive and see how bad it gets. i also got the map, where the Avenger lands on high ground, so it was really all stacked in my favor. After employing Scorched Earth Tactics for the first three Pods and destroying as much cover as possible, i just sat there and waited. i thought the difficulty might be increasing, with more Aliens/ADVENT coming in. buuuuut, no, its only one transport ever, all the time, not even when the target is already down. i got bored after ten to fifteen rounds of just Slaughtering a Boatload of Advent a turn. Kind of sad, then again, i can imagine it would be a bit to Hard otherwise, if you are in an bad situation already. also i never move up as much as Jade did, i usually have one or two soldiers Scout, while the rest sits back and picks off targets. and then have the Sniper(s) blow the target up and have only one or two turn to get everybody out. Kasrkin fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Mar 30, 2017 |
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Mar 30, 2017 08:20
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It's never really brought up much, but Tygan is hardcore. Dude ripped a chip out of the back of his own head. And assuming it's the same style chip that was plugged into the Commander, it's huge, spiky, and intentionally designed to never be removed.
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Mar 30, 2017 08:29
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Also I'd say that the turrets, especially when there's 4 of them, really help in the first few rounds when they almost double the number of shots taken at aliens.
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Mar 30, 2017 08:41
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ousire posted:It's never really brought up much, but Tygan is hardcore. Dude ripped a chip out of the back of his own head. And assuming it's the same style chip that was plugged into the Commander, it's huge, spiky, and intentionally designed to never be removed. Agreed. It reminds me of Leonid Rogozov, a soviet surgeon who removed his own appendix while snowed in at an Arctic research station.
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Mar 30, 2017 08:57
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Funnily enough the last time I did this mission the Archon King did show up. Of course this was the third time I saw him his campaign and at this point he was all but dead. One upgraded axe throw later which set him on fire and he had one hp left. So I get the satisfaction of getting him to kill himself with a reload.
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Mar 30, 2017 09:36
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