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I really hope the series doesn't go out on a pure win for Rustal. Yeah, he was smart, but he started the series up by ten with the bases loaded. That's not a satisfying story victory. Bonus scenario; he dies accidentally at Iok's hands.
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Mar 28, 2017 00:30
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Kanos posted:I still have trouble seeing how people read Gaelio as a character interested in reform or change at this point. Gaelio has spent this entire season hell bent on revenge at the cost of everything else. He's basically unchanged from his season 1 self except the target of his revenge boner shifted from Tekkadan to McGillis. Remember that this is a guy whose idea of honoring the wishes of an injured friend was to cyborg that friend up so he could murder a bunch of kids. His idea was cyborging up a friend so he could still move, at McGillis's insistence. He wasn't so fond of the final results. And it's important how Gaelio has looked every time Rustal says something shady. He's in, but he's taking no satisfaction in it. And now the reason he's in is gone...
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Mar 28, 2017 00:57
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chiasaur11 posted:His idea was cyborging up a friend so he could still move, at McGillis's insistence. He wasn't so fond of the final results. Also Ein, or rather what's left of him is dead for good too. It's entirely possible that Rustal will try to have Julietta butchered up into a weapon and that'll be the thing that sets Gaelio off.
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Mar 28, 2017 01:35
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Unless Rustal dies in some post-timeskip thing the only person who might kill him is Gaelio, who is in the same ship and whose best frienemy just died in his arms. Doesn't mean it'll happen but still.
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Mar 28, 2017 01:38
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He was kind of taunting Julieta with the "you hate dirtbags, well check out what a dirtbag I am" line and I feel like that's going to go somewhere.
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Mar 28, 2017 02:17
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Was I the only one yelling "just kiss him already" at the end there?
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Mar 28, 2017 02:26
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Logicblade posted:Was I the only one yelling "just kiss him already" at the end there? I can promise you based off the internet that you were not.
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Mar 28, 2017 02:30
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Midjack posted:He was kind of taunting Julieta with the "you hate dirtbags, well check out what a dirtbag I am" line and I feel like that's going to go somewhere. I'm not sure he was taunting her. He's been pushing her to think independently and be more than just a killing machine whenever they've had a chat together. It seems that he's genuinely not too fussed with the obvious side-effect of independent thought, that your loyal subordinates might stop agreeing with you. It's not implausible that he might step down once all this is done and hand it over to Gjallarhorn's next generation - the guy seems to be way more in this for the health of his organisation than for any personal ambition.
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Mar 28, 2017 03:13
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After going through Season 1 once more last week and reading through the thread (I completely forgot we had a thread for this until this past weekend!  ), I can tell you one thing: I feel that you guys and the posts in here (except the one about Trump/Hillary comparisons; that one was just silly) have actually made me enjoy the show more than I originally thought. Like, don't misunderstand me, I'm not knocking the show down. I like the show. I like the overall "grittier" aspects it has going for it. I actually even enjoy some of the things Okada does with the standard Gundam... ugh, tropes™. But at some point during the second season, I felt that Okada left the story feeling a little toothless. Yeah, there were some  moments.Aki DESTROYING Galan Mossa was just stone-cold badass. Frostier than any Black Metal album.  People getting Mikazuki'd/Mika'd is never not fun as a Mecha show can get. But a lot of things just felt... I dunno, like a retread on what the first season did. Then, after reading some of the posts here, I actually started unpacking the 2nd season a bit better. And you know what? I honestly think that, for all the crap she sometimes gets due to some of the trademarks found on her scripts, she's done a fine job in actually getting me invested in another Gundam show. And so have you guys. 
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Mar 28, 2017 03:51
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Midjack posted:He was kind of taunting Julieta with the "you hate dirtbags, well check out what a dirtbag I am" line and I feel like that's going to go somewhere. This. I don't think there's enough show left for Gaelio to go off on a crusade of justice solely on his own whims, so if anything happens I think it's going to be Julietta starting it specifically because of this conversation and her reaction to it. Gaelio's definitely not happy with Rustal, sure, but him just turning around and going "Now to do what Mackie wanted but the RIGHT way" would be super sudden and would probably be handled poorly.
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Mar 28, 2017 05:06
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Tae posted:Gundams aren't that great in this universe outside of specific small skirmish encounters. It is not like the 00 riser or strike freedom that can literally take out battalions of ships with no sweat. Really, it's the AV system that's killer here. IBO prioritizes melee over ranged combat if you don't bring in dainsleifs, and the AV system gives pilots an edge up in melee. Paired with a good suit, they can tear poo poo up.
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Mar 28, 2017 05:23
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In setting terms the Gundams are basically like Strike Freedom/00 Raiser level if you consider the difference in what constitutes a powerful force. Mika or McGillis can reliably take out a dozen or more units which matters a lot more when a dozen or more units is 1/3rd of someone's fighting force. Mika isn't spewing laser beams that do the same percentage of a win but he is effectively a significant enough force that the enemies have to specifically plan and work around the fact he's basically Lu Bu.
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Mar 28, 2017 05:26
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ImpAtom posted:In setting terms the Gundams are basically like Strike Freedom/00 Raiser level if you consider the difference in what constitutes a powerful force. Mika or McGillis can reliably take out a dozen or more units which matters a lot more when a dozen or more units is 1/3rd of someone's fighting force. Mika isn't spewing laser beams that do the same percentage of a win but he is effectively a significant enough force that the enemies have to specifically plan and work around the fact he's basically Lu Bu. To the point where "You can slow him down" is a rare and useful qualification. Really, Rustal's line as a taunt doesn't fit with everything else about how they interact. He levels with Julieta about how going against Mika is incredibly risky and he's only asking since she's the only person he's got who can do the job done. He thanks Gaelio for bringing her back alive. He lets her backsass people who, under normal circumstances, could have her killed. And now he's just taunting the girl who seems the closest thing he has to a daughter about how he's evil just because she's expressing sympathy for Tekkadan never having someone like him in their corner? It doesn't really match. Seems more that he thinks of himself as a necessary evil. It's not a boast, but a confession.
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Mar 28, 2017 07:20
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chiasaur11 posted:And now he's just taunting the girl who seems the closest thing he has to a daughter about how he's evil just because she's expressing sympathy for Tekkadan never having someone like him in their corner? It doesn't really match. Either way it seems needlessly antagonistic of him to point it out to her just then and his delivery of line (he was smiling, wasn't he?) leads me to interpret that as a "yeah that's right" sort of statement.
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Mar 28, 2017 13:03
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Am I the only one that doesn't remotely see it as antagonistic? Rustal is if anything a realist and having his subordinates away from being idealistic in the clouds is how you really prevent future mcgillis. Keeping his actual image and keeping it real makes julieta trust him more than anything
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Mar 28, 2017 15:05
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Tae posted:Am I the only one that doesn't remotely see it as antagonistic? Rustal is if anything a realist and having his subordinates away from being idealistic in the clouds is how you really prevent future mcgillis. It is most certainly not antagonistic. It's just meant as a bit of levity about how she perceives him.
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Mar 28, 2017 15:18
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Tae posted:Am I the only one that doesn't remotely see it as antagonistic? Rustal is if anything a realist and having his subordinates away from being idealistic in the clouds is how you really prevent future mcgillis. I don't see it as him being antagonistic at all, no, but that doesn't necessarily preclude her reacting as if it was depending on how things go down in the last episode.
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Mar 28, 2017 21:22
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Tae posted:Am I the only one that doesn't remotely see it as antagonistic? Rustal is if anything a realist and having his subordinates away from being idealistic in the clouds is how you really prevent future mcgillis. Not at all. Rustal has consistently been brutally honest in his personal dealings with his subordinates. That is quite the contrast to McGillis who encourages delusion.
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Mar 28, 2017 21:33
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Rustal, I get the impression, is under absolutely no delusions about the world. He maintains a corrupt status quo because it's what he thinks needs to be done (and probably because it benefits the hell out of him.) He's the contrast to McGillis who is willfully delusional and childish. Kudelia should be the third part of that triangle and may even be but she's been so marginalized by the story that if/when she ends up being important it's going to be pretty unsatisfying.
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Mar 28, 2017 22:02
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genericnick posted:Not at all. Rustal has consistently been brutally honest in his personal dealings with his subordinates. That is quite the contrast to McGillis who encourages delusion. Not only that - he's brutally honest because he cares about them to a fault. Remember how he gave Julietta that big speech about how Galan shouldn't be mourned, because it would dishonour his sacrifice, and then was unable to practice what he preached and mourned him anyway? Remember how he gave Iok nothing more than a few days' house arrest and an I'm-very-disappointed-in-you speech for actual, straight-up war crimes, and begged Gaelio to reveal himself and take some of the burden off the kid? Remember how he actively tried to discourage Julietta from trying to become stronger for his sake, and suggested she should try to become more human instead? He's the exact mirror image of McGillis - whereas Macky is your charming best buddy who will betray or abandon you the moment looks like it might possibly be to his advantage, Rustal is your hardass meritocratic dad who gives you a giant allowance, is an endless source of fatherly advice about life, the universe, and everything, and will get you the best lawyers money can buy even if you've been caught eating a dude's liver in public.
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Mar 28, 2017 22:02
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I'm still  ing at all the people who thought McGillis was going to betray Tekkadan. I'm glad the show stuck to its guns and avoided the dumb, cliché twist.Also, some more fantastic psychotic faces this episode.
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Mar 28, 2017 22:36
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Darth Walrus posted:Not only that - he's brutally honest because he cares about them to a fault. Remember how he gave Julietta that big speech about how Galan shouldn't be mourned, because it would dishonour his sacrifice, and then was unable to practice what he preached and mourned him anyway? Remember how he gave Iok nothing more than a few days' house arrest and an I'm-very-disappointed-in-you speech for actual, straight-up war crimes, and begged Gaelio to reveal himself and take some of the burden off the kid? Remember how he actively tried to discourage Julietta from trying to become stronger for his sake, and suggested she should try to become more human instead? He's the exact mirror image of McGillis - whereas Macky is your charming best buddy who will betray or abandon you the moment looks like it might possibly be to his advantage, Rustal is your hardass meritocratic dad who gives you a giant allowance, is an endless source of fatherly advice about life, the universe, and everything, and will get you the best lawyers money can buy even if you've been caught eating a dude's liver in public.
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Mar 28, 2017 23:30
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Lemon-Lime posted:I'm still Instead the twist was that McGillis was actually kind of straightforward and dumb. I HAVE THE COOL GUNDAM LISTEN TO ME uh, no? thats just a dumb tradition from hundreds of years ago.
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Mar 29, 2017 19:20
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KoB posted:Instead the twist was that McGillis was actually kind of straightforward and dumb. Well you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a
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Mar 29, 2017 20:01
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KoB posted:Instead the twist was that McGillis was actually kind of straightforward and dumb. Operating Baal must have had some weight, since the other seven stars members immoderately didn't go "lol no" and work to take him down. They chose to remain neutral. It seems like that running Bale actually had some authority in the Gjallahorn's legal system, but Rustal just chose to ignore it.
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Mar 29, 2017 20:27
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Logicblade posted:Was I the only one yelling "just kiss him already" at the end there? These iron blooded boyfriends never kiss when they should and its pissing me off.
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Mar 29, 2017 22:00
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All the boyfriends are dead now, there are only girlfriends left.
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Mar 29, 2017 22:03
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ImpAtom posted:All the boyfriends are dead now, there are only girlfriends left. On that note, I look forward to the spinoff starring Azee and her mighty lesbian harem.
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Mar 29, 2017 22:05
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KoB posted:Instead the twist was that McGillis was actually kind of straightforward and dumb. He's a gigantic childish idiot playing at being an adult and it's the best.
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Mar 29, 2017 23:31
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Monaghan posted:Operating Baal must have had some weight, since the other seven stars members immoderately didn't go "lol no" and work to take him down. They chose to remain neutral. It seems like that running Bale actually had some authority in the Gjallahorn's legal system, but Rustal just chose to ignore it. Yeah, everybody keeps laughing at McGillis's stupid and childish plan for how dumb it was, except it wasn't dumb at all because being able to pilot the Bael carried enough weight that the other Seven Stars families chose to remain neutral despite the fact that McGillis was staging a violent, unprovoked coup. If McGillis hadn't been forced into playing such a violent hand and had come into possession of the Bael in less violent circumstances it's entirely possible the Seven Stars not aligned with Rustal would have thrown in behind him because being able to pilot the Bael is Actually A Really Big loving Deal And Not A Joke In Gjallarhorn.
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Mar 30, 2017 02:54
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Kanos posted:Yeah, everybody keeps laughing at McGillis's stupid and childish plan for how dumb it was, except it wasn't dumb at all because being able to pilot the Bael carried enough weight that the other Seven Stars families chose to remain neutral despite the fact that McGillis was staging a violent, unprovoked coup. If McGillis hadn't been forced into playing such a violent hand and had come into possession of the Bael in less violent circumstances it's entirely possible the Seven Stars not aligned with Rustal would have thrown in behind him because being able to pilot the Bael is Actually A Really Big loving Deal And Not A Joke In Gjallarhorn. Is there such a thing as a provoked coup? I mean, the coupers provided good reasons to move against the Seven Stars.
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Mar 30, 2017 05:10
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Lemon-Lime posted:He's a gigantic childish idiot playing at being an adult and it's the best. There's some rather unfortunate reasons for while he might be a big manchild idiot, admittedly. It could be argued McGillis is a victim of the hosed up world of IBO as much as Tekkadan is. Not that it really excuses the monstrous things he's done, but it's a rather important factor in why he comes across as so stunted in how he plans and seems to perceive the world.
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Mar 30, 2017 05:16
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The funny thing is that McGillis' philosophy isn't really wrong or delusional, it's just that he thinks he can lone wolf it and mistook Bael as some sort of ultimate power item. Now, commander of Arianrhod? That's power.
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Mar 30, 2017 05:48
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Argas posted:The funny thing is that McGillis' philosophy isn't really wrong or delusional, it's just that he thinks he can lone wolf it and mistook Bael as some sort of ultimate power item. Not really. McGillis was all about personal power. One man reshaping the world with his hands and his wits as he sees fit, a Senator Armstrong deal. Rustal is all about political power. As a direct threat, Rustal's one of the weakest main antagonists Gundam's ever had. He's no fighter and no pilot, a man who's more at home behind a desk than in a mobile suit. His power comes from his birthright and his personal relationships, the things McGillis forswears. Rustal didn't claw his way to his position. He was born to it, and settled in.
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Mar 30, 2017 06:21
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Rustal is the kind of guy who gets General Septum'd in just about any other Gundam show.
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Mar 30, 2017 06:59
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Shinjobi posted:Rustal is the kind of guy who gets General Septum'd in just about any other Gundam show. Well he is much better at the political game then that guy. Plus Septum had a really silly voice so you know you could never take him seriously.
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Mar 30, 2017 08:28
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Zebulon posted:There's some rather unfortunate reasons for while he might be a big manchild idiot, admittedly. It could be argued McGillis is a victim of the hosed up world of IBO as much as Tekkadan is. Not that it really excuses the monstrous things he's done, but it's a rather important factor in why he comes across as so stunted in how he plans and seems to perceive the world. He's an idealist completely drunk on tales of mythical heroes single-handedly reshaping the world because that was his only refuge as a child, and who thought he was good enough to single-handedly beat the Arianrhod fleet just because he had A-V and a Gundam. He's 100% a victim, which is why it's good.
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Mar 30, 2017 08:39
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Shinjobi posted:Rustal is the kind of guy who gets General Septum'd in just about any other Gundam show. Now I want Rustal to die by getting thrown off a plane by a secret door then headshot in mid-air. It'd be really unfitting but hilarious.
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Mar 30, 2017 15:10
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Argas posted:Is there such a thing as a provoked coup? I mean, the coupers provided good reasons to move against the Seven Stars. I mean, you could make an argument that McGillis and the revolutionaries never visibly made an attempt to alter the system in any way to be less terrible before staging a violent revolution. McGillis was still in the middle of playing the good little errand boy for the Seven Stars to build up his power base when he found out Gaelio was alive and went to Plan B(ael).
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Mar 30, 2017 16:05
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On reflection I really like Ibo's take on sci-fi take a feudal aristocray and it's creation myths. The founder is a king arthur figure. He gets exaclibur(Bael) and goes and unites the population to kill dragons(mobile armors). He's an heroic figure of myth, a guy who saves the world and establishes their own government . These myths obviously have standing in Gjalljhorn. After all how many dragons you killed determines your place in the seven stars pecking order. There was a real worry that Mcgillis would attempt to destroy the newly found mobile armor to move up his position. Traditions can still have huge power, despite not making sense for the modern time. Mcgillis completely believes the founding myths. He believed that if he just grabbed Excalibur, people would bow and he would be able to run things. he saw himself as Agnika 2.0 ready to get the organisation back to it's roots. As mentioned earlier, His plan to take Bael wasn't completely dumb. He just thought that the seven stars would follow the rules. His buying the myths turns out to be his downfall, since it's a romanticised view of history. Myths ignore the long arduous process of maintaining long term power. Rustal is the more modern politician. He uses things the lore myths when they could be convenient, but at heart, he's all about maintaining stability and has a much more "modern" take on government. He cares about PR, so he manipulates things to make it seem like Tekkadan is committing war crimes. He cares about alliances. He rightly points out that even if Agnika started the system, it's moved beyond him.. Rustal is about the long game. The problem being is that he's perpetuating a system that he largely benefits from and crushes the non nobility underfoot.
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Mar 30, 2017 16:37
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