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Gumbel2Gumbel
Apr 28, 2010

http://www.theonion.com/article/scientists-develop-highly-volatile-new-relationshi-30385

Article made me think of this thread, which is sadly dying.

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Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

I guess once we got to buckyballs with 60 very unhappy nitrogen atoms we kind of reached peak FOOF.


Have a crosspost from the Mechanical Failures thread that is somewhat on topic:

TotalLossBrain posted:

Some more gas stuff, this time from the Apollo program with its LOX rocket propellants (Liquid OXygen)

quote:

During the early morning of March 25, 1970 propellants crew began the chill-down of the liquid Oxygen (LOX) pumping system at Launch Complex 39A to begin loading LOX in Apollo 13’s Saturn V first stage for the final ‘wet’ portion of the Countdown Demonstration Test. During the 40-minute precooling process, over 10,000 gallons of LOX were emptied into the dump reservoir. Ocean breezes would normally dissipate the Oxygen fog, but on the morning of the 25th, there was no breeze and there was a temperature inversion. The Oxygen fog built up in the drainage ditch and Oxygen began overflowing onto the banks of an adjacent road. By 6:00 AM close-out crews and safety personnel were clear of the LOX storage area and security officers were ensuring personnel were clear of the area for the hazardous propellant loading process. As the patrolmen had stopped at a perimeter fence, two of the patrol cars spontaneously combusted and the third ignited when the car was started. The patrolmen quickly abandoned their cars and took cover. The fire department arrived within five minutes, but took no action until the Oxygen fog dissipated and the fire was under control by 7:00 AM. Of the investigation that followed, the practice of dumping large quantities of propellant was criticized, entry/exit of the launch complex were studied and KSC safety training was modified. The LOX drainage lines were further extended away from the pad to a marshy area. Engine heat and grease/oil combustibles mixed with Oxygen vapors contributed to two patrol cars spontaneously combusting and the third patrol car was destroyed when the driver turned the ignition.


mmj
Dec 22, 2006

I've always been a bit confrontational

Most things that go near the compounds in this thread die

Kinetica
Aug 16, 2011
As long as there are disposable grad students in German research labs going boom, this thread lives on. :black101:

Fuck You And Diebold
Sep 15, 2004

by Athanatos
Wrong thread

Baloogan
Dec 5, 2004
Fun Shoe
i have been told of this thread
id like to (theoretically/science fictionally) store liquid hydrogen in tanks in space

you guys okay with me asking (dumb) questions about this? because i have alot fo dumb questions

Baloogan
Dec 5, 2004
Fun Shoe
anyone have a link to tables of saturation curves for different chemicals? specifically im looking for

Ammonia
Carbon Dioxide
Carbon Monoxide
Fluorine
Heavy Water
Hydrazine
Hydrogen
Hydrogen Deuteride
Hydrogen Fluoride
Hydrogen Peroxide
Mercury
Nitric Oxide
Nitrogen
Nitrogen Dioxide
Nitrogen Trifluoride
Nitrous Oxide
Oxygen
Semiheavy Water
Sulfur Dioxide
Tetrafluorohydrazine
Water

all molecular

90s Cringe Rock
Nov 29, 2006
:gay:
60 narcissists in one great big polygamous fuckyball.

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon
I feel like that question stems from Children of a Dead Earth specifically.

Baloogan
Dec 5, 2004
Fun Shoe

M_Gargantua posted:

I feel like that question stems from Children of a Dead Earth specifically.
yes, and coade is amazing

Baloogan
Dec 5, 2004
Fun Shoe
i have discovered wolfram alpha

nevermiiiind lamo!

venus de lmao
Apr 30, 2007

Call me "pixeltits"

Kinetica posted:

As long as there are disposable grad students in German research labs going boom klapötke, this thread lives on. :black101:

I have learned many things about nitrogen chemistry from this thread. :science:

Carbon dioxide
Oct 9, 2012

Baloogan posted:

anyone have a link to tables of saturation curves for different chemicals? specifically im looking for

Carbon Dioxide

A few beers.

Harik
Sep 9, 2001

From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars


Plaster Town Cop
Out of curiosity, is there such a thing as a ring of nitrogens with alternating single/double bonds? I presume the answer is "if there is, not for long" but I was wondering if someone could elaborate on what limits that kind of chemistry. If I remember my chem from decades ago, replacements happen when something wants the bond more than the current occupant - which is why some thread favorites like fluorine are so active, they're always happy to trade up.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

Harik posted:

Out of curiosity, is there such a thing as a ring of nitrogens with alternating single/double bonds? I presume the answer is "if there is, not for long" but I was wondering if someone could elaborate on what limits that kind of chemistry. If I remember my chem from decades ago, replacements happen when something wants the bond more than the current occupant - which is why some thread favorites like fluorine are so active, they're always happy to trade up.

Yes, a nitrogen atom is isoelctronic with a CH and can replace them directly in aromatic compounds. Pyridine, for example, is just benzene with a nitrogen substituted for a CH - C5H5N. Instead of a hydrogen atom, there's a lone pair of electrons on the N which can be used for coordination or other stuff.

The limits are that nitrogen is then using up its three bonds and you can't attach any functional groups without turning it into a polar salt. You also have the standard problem of nitrogen atoms wanting to make N2 molecules and blowing the whole thing up.

Lincoln
May 12, 2007

Ladies.
I changed majors to avoid taking Chem II, but I enjoy this thread. Somebody explain to me why nitrogen is so volatile.

Kwyndig
Sep 23, 2006

Heeeeeey


Nitrogen hates. Basically It has three unpaired electrons, and when Nitrogen bonds break in a molecule, explosions happen because Nitrogen forms triple bonds with those electrons that have lots of energy in them. More electron bonds means more reactive.

Munin
Nov 14, 2004


Kwyndig posted:

Nitrogen hates. Basically It has three unpaired electrons, and when Nitrogen bonds break in a molecule, explosions happen because Nitrogen forms triple bonds with those electrons that have lots of energy in them. More electron bonds means more reactive.

Hates? It's more that it has an overabundance of self-love. One of the ultimate chemical onanists.

vv Better and more accurate than mine. :D

Munin has a new favorite as of 00:02 on Mar 31, 2017

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Nitrogen is a racist monogamist. If at any point its not in a loving relationship with another single Nitrogen, it will do everything in the power of electromagnetism to get back to that state.

Its hard to say just looking at it that triple bonds are or aren't stable or energetic because of geometry or strange orbital affinities, just look at N2 versus alkynes. Nitrogen goes boom precisely because of how efficient it is for nitrogen to just be hanging off a nitrogen and anywhere else nitrogen is just can't compare to the sublime nature of N2

e. The weasel answer is quantum mechanics did it because I think that's the first principles way to compare things like bond energies.

zedprime has a new favorite as of 23:32 on Mar 30, 2017

Elmnt80
Dec 30, 2012


Here, have something mildly foofy courtesy of the new car discussion thread in AI.

https://euclidsbridge.wordpress.com/2011/11/21/drag-racing-pioneers-or-suicidal-nutjobs/

Apparently, guys were dropping hyrdazine into the fuel tanks of their nitromethane fueled dragsters in the 50s and 60s until the nhra banned it. The results were often... dramatic. :v:

Elmnt80 has a new favorite as of 06:12 on Mar 31, 2017

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin
That's a loving gnarly read, thanks for the link.

Amoeba102
Jan 22, 2010

Harik posted:

Out of curiosity, is there such a thing as a ring of nitrogens with alternating single/double bonds? I presume the answer is "if there is, not for long" but I was wondering if someone could elaborate on what limits that kind of chemistry. If I remember my chem from decades ago, replacements happen when something wants the bond more than the current occupant - which is why some thread favorites like fluorine are so active, they're always happy to trade up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexazine

"is a hypothetical allotrope of nitrogen composed of 6 nitrogen atoms arranged in a ring-like structure analogous to that of benzene"

"it has been predicted computationally that the hexazine molecule is highly unstable"

Ya don't say.

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon
Since metallic hydrogen is a thing now, is metallic nitrogen possible? And would it be reactive or stable?

venus de lmao
Apr 30, 2007

Call me "pixeltits"

M_Gargantua posted:

Since metallic hydrogen is a thing now, is metallic nitrogen possible? And would it be reactive or stable?

Are there enough grad students in the world to find out?

Gyro Zeppeli
Jul 19, 2012

sure hope no-one throws me off a bridge

Bertrand Hustle posted:

Are there enough grad students in the world to find out?

Ia Ia Klapötke F'taghn.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

M_Gargantua posted:

Since metallic hydrogen is a thing now, is metallic nitrogen possible?

Not really. Hydrogen is Group 1 alongside metals like Lithium and Sodium. Nitrogen is Group 5 and definitely a nonmetal. It's just too electronegative to act like a metal.

Carbon dioxide
Oct 9, 2012

The Lone Badger posted:

Not really. Hydrogen is Group 1 alongside metals like Lithium and Sodium. Nitrogen is Group 5 and definitely a nonmetal. It's just too electronegative to act like a metal.

Wrong. If you put enough pressure on anything it'll become metallic.

https://arxiv.org/abs/1210.4358
http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1367-2630/15/1/013010/meta
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/pressure-turns-nitrogen-g/

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009

zedprime posted:

Nitrogen is a racist monogamist. If at any point its not in a loving relationship with another single Nitrogen, it will do everything in the power of electromagnetism to get back to that state.

Its hard to say just looking at it that triple bonds are or aren't stable or energetic because of geometry or strange orbital affinities, just look at N2 versus alkynes. Nitrogen goes boom precisely because of how efficient it is for nitrogen to just be hanging off a nitrogen and anywhere else nitrogen is just can't compare to the sublime nature of N2

e. The weasel answer is quantum mechanics did it because I think that's the first principles way to compare things like bond energies.

Tread title should be

Things that go FOOF in the night: A loving relationship with nitrogen

Remulak
Jun 8, 2001
I can't count to four.
Yams Fan

Carbon dioxide posted:

Wrong. If you put enough pressure on anything it'll become metallic.

Very true: Lemmy was formed when a nerdy British chem grad student got stuck in a 25k PSI reactor vessel.

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

Hey, I feel like this would be the place to ask- is there some phone app that you can use to look up the little number codes in the diamonds on tanker trucks to see what they're carrying? I don't know what those codes are actually called, and I'm sure that 99% of them are just gasoline, but it'd be neat to look up what a truck is transporting if you're bored in the passenger seat.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

Luneshot posted:

Hey, I feel like this would be the place to ask- is there some phone app that you can use to look up the little number codes in the diamonds on tanker trucks to see what they're carrying? I don't know what those codes are actually called, and I'm sure that 99% of them are just gasoline, but it'd be neat to look up what a truck is transporting if you're bored in the passenger seat.

I guess you can look for an app at the NFPA site but here's a link to what they mean: http://people.howstuffworks.com/question327.htm

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS

Luneshot posted:

Hey, I feel like this would be the place to ask- is there some phone app that you can use to look up the little number codes in the diamonds on tanker trucks to see what they're carrying? I don't know what those codes are actually called, and I'm sure that 99% of them are just gasoline, but it'd be neat to look up what a truck is transporting if you're bored in the passenger seat.

Those are defined by NFPA 704 and commonly called “fire diamonds”.

The different quadrants tell you how hazardous the substance is in various ways. They don’t uniquely identify chemicals, but you can make an educated guess.

Kwyndig
Sep 23, 2006

Heeeeeey


The NFPA do have an app but I have no idea how easy it is to use to look up codes.

jeremiah johnson
Nov 3, 2007
I think they're asking about DOT placards which usually include UN ID numbers that do uniquely identify chemicals. There are apps but I have no personal experience with any of them.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS
Oh, those.

ERG 2016 on iOS seems to do what you want.

e: “What’s in that truck?” is simpler and also works.

Mustached Demon
Nov 12, 2016

Don't text and drive. Especially around a truck with DOT placards. Or look up dot placards while driving.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS
9260 is underrated.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Mustached Demon posted:

Don't text and drive. Especially around a truck with DOT placards. Or look up dot placards while driving.

Get a dashcam and hook it into text to speech.

GWBBQ
Jan 2, 2005


Isn't a metal that can remain stable at atmospheric pressure fundamentally different from degenerate matter?

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Base Emitter
Apr 1, 2012

?

zedprime posted:

The weasel answer is quantum mechanics did it because I think that's the first principles way to compare things like bond energies.

Nitrogen has 7 total electrons. A single, unbonded nitrogen atom in its ground state would have 2 electrons in the 1s state, 2 in the 2s state, and 3 in the 2p state. The 2p state can have up to 6 electrons. So, if you put two N atoms together and let them share valence electrons, you have 6 total electrons shared between the two atoms. The "half" of each wave function near one nucleus or the other would fill the energy level. As a rule of thumb, whenever you have filled shells systems are unusually stable, because you've put the most particles in the lowest energy you can.

I'm sure that sounds pretty hand-wavy but estimating electron energies in a molecule by adding up atomic orbitals is real, if highly approximate.

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