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rudatron posted:I'm okay with granting certain elements of contemporary religion as part of a kind of mythic language, but the vast majority of religious believers do not treat it that way, and ingrained in every religion is both a set of statements about the world (metaphysical claims) and moral arguments, and the two are often mixed together in a confusing way. The purpose of language is to express truth. If the truth as it is in the world is neither clear nor concise, that's tough for us.
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Apr 3, 2017 11:44
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CountFosco posted:The purpose of language is to express truth. If the truth as it is in the world is neither clear nor concise, that's tough for us. Funny when this statement is demonstrably false, we use language to convey things that aren't true all the time after all.
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Apr 3, 2017 11:53
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WhitemageofDOOM posted:Funny when this statement is demonstrably false, we use language to convey things that aren't true all the time after all. Sure, but that's not language's purpose. I mean, if you're a materialist, language has no "purpose" other than whatever purpose we give it, or just no intrinsic purpose at all. Just because something doesn't act according to its purpose doesn't mean it doesn't have a purpose.
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Apr 3, 2017 12:21
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CountFosco posted:If Lot was the one good enough to be allowed to escape, imagine how bad the rest were. No infant has ever done anything deserving of death
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Apr 3, 2017 12:38
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CountFosco posted:The purpose of language is to express truth. If the truth as it is in the world is neither clear nor concise, that's tough for us. Being able to abstract things to the point of lying is a core universal of language on the linguistic level. quote:I mean, if you're a materialist, language has no "purpose" other than whatever purpose we give it, or just no intrinsic purpose at all. This is mostly untrue of what the most materialist of linguists would say, the problem is that your idea of what its purpose is is beyond idealistic. Language communicates things, the truth is only tangentially one of these things. Agnosticnixie fucked around with this message at 12:42 on Apr 3, 2017 |
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Apr 3, 2017 12:39
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Piell posted:No infant has ever done anything deserving of death Sure they have, they were born to evil parents and thus were irredeemable. Punishing children for the sins of their parents is the height of morality and justice! 
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Apr 3, 2017 13:13
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CountFosco posted:If Lot was the one good enough to be allowed to escape, imagine how bad the rest were. We're still talking about the religion where the God in question straight up tells you that he's responsible for both "Good" and "Evil" (Isaiah 45:7), right? The one where Jesus also tells people gathered around him multiple times that unless you're going to turn away from/against every person you love, you are no follower of his teachings (in hilarious contradiction to his other statements about caring for and serving each other)? The one with eternal damnation in pits of fire with maggots burrowing through your flesh forever; perpetually in a state of dying but without any release from torment? The one that claims God loves humanity so much he substituted his own son as a blood sacrifice to pay for the "sins" of humanity, while completely ignoring how hosed up that sequence of events is? If the God of the Bible is portrayed accurately, he doesn't love humanity. Humanity is the battered daughter to God's narcassistic abusive/incestuous father power fantasy. That God deserves no love or loyalty or worship, and the Lucifer character was right to defy him.
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Apr 3, 2017 13:50
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CountFosco posted:The purpose of language is to express truth. If the truth as it is in the world is neither clear nor concise, that's tough for us.
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Apr 3, 2017 14:09
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BrandorKP posted:Would each of you say that as a category religion was universally harmful? The imagination of human beings is something that should be expanded and encouraged, and the intersection of imagination and ignorance is mysticism. The religious history of humanity is therefore proof of its sapience, that is has a mind worth something more than a pocket calculator. It's just that religion has outlived its usefulness.
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Apr 3, 2017 14:15
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rudatron posted:It's just that religion has outlived its usefulness. This is the crux of the matter. If the only reason (as I've had Christians argue with a straight face) that you aren't going about murdering, raping and otherwise being an absolute monster to every person you meet is because you believe God will punish you for doing so, you are already an absolutely monstrous being and need psychological help before you snap.
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Apr 3, 2017 14:24
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RasperFat posted:I think you've completely missed the point. As Newton said "I stand on the shoulders of giants". The ancient scholars were brilliant minds that greatly contributed to the advancement of society. Oh now its the argument that we've jsut been in a constant advancement of knowledg. biracial bear for uncut posted:This is the crux of the matter. Oh Lol. NOw we are at the point where all religious people are secretly psychopaths. Love these threads. It is a giant circlejerk of atheists saying "I'm superior" "DOn't you know the Greeks, were not religious, oh and so were the scholars of Islam?" "Also you're a loony if you say religion has inspired you to take part in helping people". I really think these threads exist as a kind of group therapy session for you guys. . Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Apr 3, 2017 |
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Apr 3, 2017 14:48
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Crowsbeak are you drunk or just blind with righteous indignation?
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Apr 3, 2017 14:51
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Crowsbeak posted:Oh Lol. NOw we are at the point where all religious people are secretly pshychopaths. Love these threads. ITs a giant circlejerk of athiests saying "I'm superior" "DOn't you know the Greeks, were not religious, oh and so were the scholars of Islam?" "Also you're a loony if you say religion has inspired you to take part in helping people". I really think these threads exist as a kind of group threapy session for you guys. What do you mean "now"? Who said that religious people are secretly psychopaths?
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Apr 3, 2017 14:53
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Who What Now posted:Crowsbeak are you drunk or just blind with righteous indignation? More on too many cans of loving Energy Drinks. Also its funny you accuse anyone of righteous indignation. Considering your posting tends to be virtuesignaling.txt.
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Apr 3, 2017 15:04
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Crowsbeak posted:virtuesignaling.txt.  Oh no, I act like a good person, how awful of me!
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Apr 3, 2017 15:14
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Who What Now posted:
You shouldn't act like one. you should be one.
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Apr 3, 2017 15:36
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Crowsbeak posted:You shouldn't act like one. you should be one. Good job arguing against the premise of every single religion in The West ("You aren't a good person & never will be, beg this deity for help. Also, gently caress over everyone that doesn't also follow this deity at every chance you get."). Some Pinko Commie fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Apr 3, 2017 |
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Apr 3, 2017 15:42
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Crowsbeak posted:You shouldn't act like one. you should be one. Already am. Give it a try yourself sometime.
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Apr 3, 2017 15:46
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Who What Now posted:Already am. Give it a try yourself sometime. I am going to give you a life lesson. Being a self righteous rear end in a top hat doesn't make you a good person.. I know you're not going to learn it. ANd are then going to say the lie that the way you act on a dead gay comedy forum is in no way the way you act in real life. But I said it. biracial bear for uncut posted:Good job arguing against the premise of every single religion in The West ("You aren't a good person & never will be, beg this deity for help. Also, gently caress over everyone that doesn't also follow this deity at every chance you get."). I'm just arguing he's a dick. As are you. I mean that's why you guys post in these threads You need justification for your own attempts to feel superior to others who do not believe as you do. You need to know that your belief on the meaning of life makes you better than others.
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Apr 3, 2017 15:56
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biracial bear for uncut posted:What do you mean "now"? Who said that religious people are secretly psychopaths? 
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Apr 3, 2017 16:08
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Crowsbeak posted:I'm just arguing he's a dick. As are you. I mean that's why you guys post in these threads You need justification for your own attempts to feel superior to others who do not believe as you do. You need to know that your belief on the meaning of life makes you better than others. So why exactly are you here?
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Apr 3, 2017 16:14
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Who What Now posted:So why exactly are you here?
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Apr 3, 2017 16:23
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Crowsbeak posted:Originally to laugh at the circle jerk of atheists pretending they're atheism makes them superior. But I started to post once people started to deliberately distort history. I can deal with the smug athiesm, but once people start distorting history I get suckered in. Helps I am getting my minor in history. You might want to actually read the thread, then, because the only distortions of history in this thread so far are the religious people claiming any societal advancements occurred due to some religion's influence rather than in spite of it.
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Apr 3, 2017 16:28
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Crowsbeak posted:Originally to laugh at the circle jerk of atheists pretending they're atheism makes them superior. But I started to post once people started to deliberately distort history. I can deal with the smug athiesm, but once people start distorting history I get suckered in. Helps I am getting my minor in history. Id ask the university for your money back, then.
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Apr 3, 2017 16:31
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Crowsbeak posted:Originally to laugh at the circle jerk of atheists pretending they're atheism makes them superior. But I started to post once people started to deliberately distort history. I can deal with the smug athiesm, but once people start distorting history I get suckered in. Helps I am getting my minor in history. I also have a degree in history and your understanding of history sucks, you constantly and seemingly deliberately misrepresent people's arguments and avoid engaging saliant points that are raised.
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Apr 3, 2017 16:33
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biracial bear for uncut posted:You might want to actually read the thread, then, because the only distortions of history in this thread so far are the religious people claiming any societal advancements occurred due to some religion's influence rather than in spite of it. 1. THey did. LOok I know you want to think that religon has never offered anything to the world but what do you know it inspired people to do alot of great things. 2. Yeah there's been alot of bullshit in this thread about ancient cultures being atheistic. Asian cultures being atheistic, the enlightenment being full of pure hearts, oh and Secular Rulers in the 20th century never having taken extreme or utterly heartless actions.
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Apr 3, 2017 16:34
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Crowsbeak posted:1. THey did. LOok I know you want to think that religon has never offered anything to the world but what do you know it inspired people to do alot of great things. Surely you could provide some direct quotes of people actually saying that, right? Because I've looked over the last few pages and can't find anyone saying anything close to anything like that. Or do they not teach you how to quote people in clown college?
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Apr 3, 2017 16:46
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CountFosco posted:If Lot was the one good enough to be allowed to escape, imagine how bad the rest were. I think it's more plausible that I simply don't agree with God's morality. It's not that strange - I am after all not a Christian.
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Apr 3, 2017 17:08
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khwarezm posted:I also have a degree in history and your understanding of history sucks, you constantly and seemingly deliberately misrepresent people's arguments and avoid engaging saliant points that are raised. Hey nothings stopping people from making arguments about the dark ages existing and saying it held the whole world back. (It only held Western Europe back and it happened due to a breakdown in central government). Also you don't seem to be using that degreee very well if you ignore that the Turkish Government through the 80s was extremley secular and was very repressive to religious types. I mean I'm fine if you just came out and said you think that is a good thing. Also Who What Now posted:Surely you could provide some direct quotes of people actually saying that, right? Because I've looked over the last few pages and can't find anyone saying anything close to anything like that. Or do they not teach you how to quote people in clown college? RasperFat posted:
Oh also Raspar Fat was praising the Mongols, who of course didn't cause millions to die in their secular attempt at world conquest or anything. BTW I don't take assholes who pretend to be good people seriously so I don't oput effort into this. Because I know that you won't stop being assholes. This thread exists so you can justify being assholes. biracial bear for uncut posted:You might want to actually read the thread, then, because the only distortions of history in this thread so far are the religious people claiming any societal advancements occurred due to some religion's influence rather than in spite of it. Hey because it sometimes did. Sorry you can't deal with that fact. Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Apr 3, 2017 |
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Apr 3, 2017 17:11
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Crowsbeak posted:Oh Lol. NOw we are at the point where all religious people are secretly psychopaths. Love these threads. It is a giant circlejerk of atheists saying "I'm superior" "DOn't you know the Greeks, were not religious, oh and so were the scholars of Islam?" "Also you're a loony if you say religion has inspired you to take part in helping people". I really think these threads exist as a kind of group therapy session for you guys. The entire argument of religion that if you're good, you go to heaven and if you're bad you go to hell assumes a massive sociopathic tendency in humans. Insert different reward/punishment for whichever flavor you prefer- it's all very similar.
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Apr 3, 2017 17:38
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Panzeh posted:The entire argument of religion that if you're good, you go to heaven and if you're bad you go to hell assumes a massive sociopathic tendency in humans. You guys do realize that actually the argument you're making is suggesting that most of humanity is sociopathic right?
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Apr 3, 2017 17:42
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Crowsbeak posted:You guys do realize that actually the argument you're making is suggesting that most of humanity is sociopathic right? No, that doesn't follow from what they said. Just because humanity has instituted an incentive system that assumes they'll act a certain way without it doesn't mean they actually will act that way without it. e: Although I think characterizing religions that way is a gross oversimplification of the question of justification by faith vs. works within Christianity alone, nevermind other religions.
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Apr 3, 2017 17:46
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:No, that doesn't follow from what they said. Just because humanity has instituted an incentive system that assumes they'll act a certain way without it doesn't mean they actually will act that way without it. The problem with the Christianity side of things is the assumption that humanity needs to "justify" anything to any creator deity. Some Pinko Commie fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Apr 3, 2017 |
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Apr 3, 2017 18:00
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Crowsbeak posted:Oh also Raspar Fat was praising the Mongols, who of course didn't cause millions to die in their secular attempt at world conquest or anything. The Mongols weren't secular. I'm beginning to think you're lying about getting that minor in history unless its from some creationist college.
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Apr 3, 2017 18:02
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nobody tell crowsbeak that a hefty proportion of the mongol warriors who followed temujin genghis khan during his lifetime were baptized nestorian christians
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Apr 3, 2017 18:19
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zeal posted:nobody tell crowsbeak that a hefty proportion of the mongol warriors who followed temujin genghis khan during his lifetime were baptized nestorian christians You'd think someone with a minor in history would already know that if their degree program was worth referencing as a source of authority on a subject. 
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Apr 3, 2017 18:27
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biracial bear for uncut posted:You'd think someone with a minor in history would already know that if their degree program was worth referencing as a source of authority on a subject. the hardcore history series on the mongol empire(s) is probably a better source at least dan carlin bothered to read Mongol Queens and the Secret History
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Apr 3, 2017 18:31
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Piell posted:No infant has ever done anything deserving of death If that's true then, strictly, they went to heaven, so it's probably fine.
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Apr 3, 2017 19:07
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OwlFancier posted:If that's true then, strictly, they went to heaven, so it's probably fine. Unbaptized babies go straight to hell, I'm afraid. Especially ones born before baptism was a thing.
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Apr 3, 2017 19:09
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biracial bear for uncut posted:You'd think someone with a minor in history would already know that if their degree program was worth referencing as a source of authority on a subject. Hey i was not the one praising them for not having a state Religion.
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Apr 3, 2017 19:11
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