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Modern state functions differently from the ancient state, and the state is the primary benefactor and initiator of patriarchal institutions. In the modern state, the focus is quite literally on producing biological bodies that can be used to support it, which is why no matte what ideology the state espouses, it always chooses the same means to strengthen itself (to a degree limited by its authoritarianism): Promoting high birthrates, limiting birth control, supporting traditional family, demonizing non traditional relations and household models... It doesn't matter if you look at Communists in the USSR, GOP in the US, or the Chinese government, they will invariably all skew towards the same patriarchal model that puts the generation and regulation of human bodies for the state above all else.
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Apr 2, 2017 22:40
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Pizdec posted:The weird part is that some ancient societies like Rome (and modern subcultures like the prisons or the Army) have the exact same view without denouncing homosexuality as a phenomenon - gay sex is fine as long as you're the fucker rather than the fuckee. Much of that evidence was proscriptive, not descriptive. It's pressure to make being a bottom seem bad, rather than acknowledging that everyone thought being a bottom was bad. It'd be like if in 2000 years you said that most people today thought doing drugs was immoral because there were so many laws against doing drugs and so much media depicting its negative aspects: It's true, but it's not nearly the whole story.
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Apr 3, 2017 00:01
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so i have seen reports popping of of Chechen authorities rounding up and killing gay men/women. most of them are from Russian sources. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/01/world/europe/chechen-authorities-arresting-and-killing-gay-men-russian-paper-says.html so has Kadyrov fallen out of favor with putin and now putin is trying to throw him under the bridge in the papers internationaly so when the Russians march in to absorb it completly, they have "justification".
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Apr 3, 2017 00:36
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Baronjutter posted:Maybe I'm just naive and can't understand this poo poo, but I could never and still can't understand conservative country's obsession with the gays. It's not like they're a rival political movement or religion, they don't own disproportionate amounts of the economy, they don't have questionable foreign ties or potential loyalties during war. There's just no reason to be so ridiculous towards them. It even seems to be beyond some cynical reason like needing a hated other to rally/distract the people with, it often seems to be a genuine irrational murderous hatred. It's always nice to have a few people around you can casually toss to the mob whenever you want to increase the overall level of violence. Being visibly brutally oppressive against an isolated group makes any potential resistance by others less likely even if most of the population goes along with it. The same gentlemen that drag jews/gays to god knows where with complete impunity can make you disappear as well.
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Apr 3, 2017 00:50
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Rinkles posted:They are very much seen as a political phenomenon; a provocation. They're a manifestation of the influence of the decadent west. Homosexuality is considered an aberration in these countries, so obviously foreign interests must be behind any native efforts in raising awareness and tolerance. Yeah I think this explains why oppression of gays is getting worse in many of these countries, they were conservative and patriarchal before but what has changed is that LGBT rights have become more visible in the west. These countries have noticed that and now see oppressing gays as an easy way to signal that "hey, we're not like those decadent westerners."
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Apr 3, 2017 05:36
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MaxxBot posted:Yeah I think this explains why oppression of gays is getting worse in many of these countries, they were conservative and patriarchal before but what has changed is that LGBT rights have become more visible in the west. These countries have noticed that and now see oppressing gays as an easy way to signal that "hey, we're not like those decadent westerners." I'd say it's a combination of this and the fact that LGBT people becoming more accepted in the west has also led to LGBT rights movements in a lot of these patriarchal countries, so whereas a couple decades ago they could just ignore gay people and pretend they didn't exist, these days gay people in their countries see the progress being made in the west and have started to move more into the visible public sphere, which has led to a lot of backlash and confrontation by the authorities and the patriarchal societies they're a part of.
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Apr 3, 2017 06:22
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It's mostly about conformity. Conservative states could probably alter their structure and function relatively unchanged with gay marriages or legalized abortion - but they draw a lot of their legitimacy from religion and tradition as something not ever to be questioned. If they are seen buckling under internal pressure, what prevents other groups from making demands as well in other causes - which could directly endanger existing power structures? For the right-wing, opposing LGBT rights has become a way to fight liberalism.
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Apr 3, 2017 10:16
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There has been explosions on a few of the trains on the St. Petersburg Metro. (http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/03/europe/st-petersburg-russia-explosion/)
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Apr 3, 2017 13:14
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I guess the protests really worried Putin.
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Apr 3, 2017 13:24
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Dapper_Swindler posted:so i have seen reports popping of of Chechen authorities rounding up and killing gay men/women. most of them are from Russian sources. I can't imagine Putin would choose "protecting homosexuals" as his casus belli for a new round of war against the Chechens. It'd be contrary to all the policy changes that happened under his governments wrt. homosexuality.
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Apr 3, 2017 13:31
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Switched on RT on a lark for live coverage of the attacks. Within five minutes, they turn to a talking head hammering away about how this is clearly the fault of the United States's support for anti-Assad rebels. Utterly shameless.
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Apr 3, 2017 13:35
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Cat Mattress posted:I can't imagine Putin would choose "protecting homosexuals" as his casus belli for a new round of war against the Chechens. It'd be contrary to all the policy changes that happened under his governments wrt. homosexuality. If Putin wanted a West-friendly cause for going after Kadyrov he would probably just hold him responsible for Nemtsov and similar assassinations.
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Apr 3, 2017 13:45
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Early reports are saying 10 dead, but based on the pictures, I'd expect that number to climb.
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Apr 3, 2017 13:47
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Cugel the Clever posted:Switched on RT on a lark for live coverage of the attacks. Within five minutes, they turn to a talking head hammering away about how this is clearly the fault of the United States's support for anti-Assad rebels. Utterly shameless. You never know, there could always be secret Kurdish terrorist groups in the heart of Russia lmao
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Apr 3, 2017 13:49
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Cat Mattress posted:I can't imagine Putin would choose "protecting homosexuals" as his casus belli for a new round of war against the Chechens. It'd be contrary to all the policy changes that happened under his governments wrt. homosexuality. I could potentially see "Kadyrov has become an Islamic fundamentalist, while we all agree homophobia is great his death squads are not the civilized man's way of repressing them". That, the Chechen volunteers for ISIS and the Ukrainian war, and Kadyrov's general wackiness like holding that MMA tournament with kids could be used to portray him as an ISIS sympathizer without having to say anti-LGBT violence is bad.
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Apr 3, 2017 13:59
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A Typical Goon posted:You never know, there could always be secret Kurdish terrorist groups in the heart of Russia lmao If there's one thing we can say with certainty about this mixed up world, it's that ABSOLUTELY NO suppressed Russian subjects have been involved with the ISIS and fighting a proxy war against the Russian government in Syria.
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Apr 3, 2017 14:05
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So Putin is blowing up trains now huh? I guess he wants a 3rd chechen war?
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Apr 3, 2017 14:31
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DrProsek posted:I could potentially see "Kadyrov has become an Islamic fundamentalist, while we all agree homophobia is great his death squads are not the civilized man's way of repressing them". That, the Chechen volunteers for ISIS and the Ukrainian war, and Kadyrov's general wackiness like holding that MMA tournament with kids could be used to portray him as an ISIS sympathizer without having to say anti-LGBT violence is bad. As someone who has watched far too much Russian MMA, wasn't it "just" 3 individual kids fights rather than a tournament?
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Apr 3, 2017 14:36
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Charliegrs posted:So Putin is blowing up trains now huh? I guess he wants a 3rd chechen war? I guess it's just totally unimaginable that anyone else would want to organize an attack on Russia at this point given how popular they are internationally. Must be a false flag.
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Apr 3, 2017 14:37
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Some heads are going to roll over this. There is security measures everywhere in the metro, but this still happened. It would really help if the police actually paid attention to the metal detectors, but I know that's impossible due to volumes and time. Just, gently caress. I hope everyone I know here is ok 
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Apr 3, 2017 14:55
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drat, it seems it's always the wrong people getting hurt.
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Apr 3, 2017 15:05
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forkboy84 posted:As someone who has watched far too much Russian MMA, wasn't it "just" 3 individual kids fights rather than a tournament?
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Apr 3, 2017 15:13
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A Typical Goon posted:You never know, there could always be secret Kurdish terrorist groups in the heart of Russia lmao Russian media tends to imply NATO/US secretly created and is supporting ISIS and the hard core islamists. They downplay the actual, large scale and successful NATO/US campaign to support the Kurds and SDF against ISIS while heavily covering their own small contributions to portray themselves as the ones ~really~ fighting ISIS. This looks much better than talking about waging terror bombing and depopulation campaigns on the general population of Syria while NATO kills the universally accepted bad guys. Basically as long as the Kurds are not directly in conflict with Assad you won't see Russia pointing the finger at them. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Apr 3, 2017 |
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Apr 3, 2017 15:19
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forkboy84 posted:As someone who has watched far too much Russian MMA, wasn't it "just" 3 individual kids fights rather than a tournament? Ah, right. I remembered it was a whole big event and assumed that meant it was a whole tournament. It was just a series of single fights between his kids and some other kids (along with the aforementioned adults tournament).
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Apr 3, 2017 15:20
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Karmalis posted:drat, it seems it's always the wrong people getting hurt. Yep, https://twitter.com/madisonreed/status/848902367181406210
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Apr 3, 2017 15:21
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^^^ gently caress. I was wondering when people would start to get desperate. poo poo's getting pretty dire in Russia as far as I can tell. Of course, this will be used as an excuse to poo poo on opposition further.
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Apr 3, 2017 15:59
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Calling it now: Navalnyi organized the bombings using US money to hire Latvian female ISIS mercenaries.
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Apr 3, 2017 17:10
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If the Chechens were behind this/or if Putin frames it as such Kadyrov might lose his head and poo poo's going to go down.
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Apr 3, 2017 17:35
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Another day, another Smolensk claim by Polish government. This time Russian airspace coordinators are being blamed for intentional provocation of the catastrophe, whatever that phrasing means.
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Apr 3, 2017 18:07
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There's no way Putin has any interest in ousting Kadyrov. If he wants to set Chechnya straight, he will do so by making Kadyrov apply pressure, not by replacing him.
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Apr 3, 2017 18:13
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I'm all for blaming a lot of stuff on putin and russian conspiracies but that polish plane really did seem to be a legit crash. Like sure, say Putin did some of the moscow apartment bombings, that's a potential juicy conspiracy theory with a lot of spoopy evidence. But that plane crash, get over it guys.
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Apr 3, 2017 18:15
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steinrokkan posted:There's no way Putin has any interest in ousting Kadyrov. If he wants to set Chechnya straight, he will do so by making Kadyrov apply pressure, not by replacing him. Baronjutter posted:I'm all for blaming a lot of stuff on putin and russian conspiracies but that polish plane really did seem to be a legit crash.
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Apr 3, 2017 18:15
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The Mayday/ACI episode on the crash is pretty good. My favorite is Polish media talking about the pilot offering a solemn prayer before the crash but the actual CVR recording is...rather more colorful.
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Apr 3, 2017 18:46
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St. Petersburg metro footage moments after the explosion.  https://player.vimeo.com/video/211348374
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Apr 3, 2017 18:49
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https://mobile.twitter.com/shaunwalker7/status/848956176716922880 Hmm.
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Apr 3, 2017 19:31
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i hope it was ukrainian nazis
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Apr 3, 2017 20:59
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For the people of Saint Petersburg, it's the worst day of their lives. For Putin, it's a Monday.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:01
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Young Freud posted:For the people of Saint Petersburg, it's the worst day of their lives. For Putin, it's a Monday. to be fair stuff gets less important once you've done it 3 times
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Apr 3, 2017 21:03
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Sinteres posted:I guess it's just totally unimaginable that anyone else would want to organize an attack on Russia at this point given how popular they are internationally. Must be a false flag. Unimaginable? No of course not. But it's not like Putin doesn't have a history of literally blowing up his own people to justify a war.
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Apr 3, 2017 22:17
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you think its a repeat of the apartment bombings? maybe, idk, i assume its probaly ISIS or some homegrown dickheads.
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Apr 3, 2017 22:20
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