|
dungeon cousin posted:That's not an actual reason. That's just something fans noticed and then ran with because "patterns". So basically like 100% of all speculation and discussion about Pokemon.
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2017 22:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 02:56 |
|
|
Dexie posted:All of Eevee's evolutions are types that were special before the split. Yup, which absolutely hosed over Flareon when they suddenly decided it needed to be the physical attacker.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2017 22:47
|
|
|
It's not speculation and 'patterns' when it's something that's been consistently true every time they make new Eeveelutions though?Kurieg posted:Yup, which absolutely hosed over Flareon when they suddenly decided it needed to be the physical attacker. He was my favorite Eevee evolution for so long. I tried so hard to hold out hope that one day he'd be good. I ended up giving up that hope. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2017 23:01
|
|
|
At least Flareon finally got access to Flare Blitz last gen? But yeah physical fire is garbage compared to special fire. It's really sad 
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 00:12
|
|
|
Dr Subterfuge posted:At least Flareon finally got access to Flare Blitz last gen? Flare Blitz actually makes things worse; its SAtk is actually surprisingly decent, the problem is that it's defensively poo poo (not helped by Fire sucking defensively) and not fast enough to make up for it. So we'll just give Flareon a super-strong STAB move on its stronger attack stat... that causes recoil! That way if the other guy doesn't murder your Flareon in one hit, it will helpfully finish the job!  That Flareon, sure a team player.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 00:50
|
|
|
Physical Fire is pretty good, really. There aren't a ton of great physical fire types but there's a quite a few pretty good ones. There are about as many decent physical fires as special. Flareon is a lost cause, though. There's not much that can be done to make a pokemon with 65 speed and 65/60/110 defenses good.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 00:56
|
|
|
Really, fire types have been getting the shaft since Gen 4, what with Stealth Rock being introduced. It basically forced players to either not being fire-types into their competitive parties or bring fire mons with a secondary type that resisted rock. Introducing fairy types didn't help matters, since fire just resists fairy, not being super effective against it. At least poison types got some love that way.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 00:59
|
|
|
WrightOfWay posted:Physical Fire is pretty good, really. There aren't a ton of great physical fire types but there's a quite a few pretty good ones. There are about as many decent physical fires as special. Flareon is a lost cause, though. There's not much that can be done to make a pokemon with 65 speed and 65/60/110 defenses good. Mega Flareon could save it.  Just give it the M-Beedrill style of hyper specialization on it's stats.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 01:25
|
|
|
ApeHawk posted:Really, fire types have been getting the shaft since Gen 4, what with Stealth Rock being introduced. It basically forced players to either not being fire-types into their competitive parties or bring fire mons with a secondary type that resisted rock. This really isn't true. If you look at Smogon's OU lists, there are literally no fire types in Gen 1-3 OU, but at least a few in every later gen. Volcarona and Charizard are major threats despite a massive SR weakness. Also, Fire's Fairy resist is pretty meaningful and made defensive fires a lot less of a joke. IMO the fire and flying types are fairly well balanced, with enough positive aspects to offset the Rock weakness. Sucks if you like ice or bug types tho.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 02:19
|
|
|
Stealth Rock needs to either be removed, or, perhaps, spread wider than one type. Maybe Ice and Dark type versions, too?
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 02:59
|
|
|
PMush Perfect posted:Stealth Rock needs to either be removed, or, perhaps, spread wider than one type. Maybe Ice and Dark type versions, too? As long as they aren't stack-able I think that'd be a good idea.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 03:14
|
|
|
Buff ice types by making Hail be weather stealth rock
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 03:17
|
|
|
More versions of Stealth Rocks would be fine, as long as more versions of Rapid Spin or other ways to remove entry hazards are also implemented. Maybe a Fire type or Water type moves that burns away or washes away hazards.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 03:20
|
|
|
Dexie posted:As long as they aren't stack-able I think that'd be a good idea. fangame mechanic idea: all types get stackable stealth rock equivalents. If you manage to set them all up you send out Captain Planet, The Forbidden One and auto-win the battle.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 03:22
|
|
|
It would be interesting to ask the devs what mechanical change they'd revert if they could. The whole metagame would be different if Stealth Rock were type-neutral like Spikes.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 03:36
|
|
|
Sorites posted:It would be interesting to ask the devs what mechanical change they'd revert if they could. Spikes aren't type-neutral though, they're Ground, so they don't affect Flying at all, the same way that Toxic Spikes don't affect Steel.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 03:57
|
|
|
ZeButler posted:Spikes aren't type-neutral though, they're Ground, so they don't affect Flying at all, the same way that Toxic Spikes don't affect Steel. They do percentage based damage that's not affected by typing though. They're not purely type neutral but they are in the way that matters.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 04:01
|
|
|
Dexie posted:They do percentage based damage that's not affected by typing though. They're not purely type neutral but they are in the way that matters. Didn't realize that the damage was type-neutral. The more you know!
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 04:06
|
|
|
There's nothing stopping Gamefreak from making Stealth Rock do the same amount of damage to every type but they probably don't care. It doesn't effect VGC at all and that's the only competetive metagame they care about.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 04:09
|
|
if every type had stealth rocks and a hazard removal move that were all identical save for type, it'd kinda make types pointless. Maybe if 'Field Janitor' were an effectively typeless move that everyone could learn, but you can only remove hazard types the pokemon is effective against, itd be interesting. IE: Icicle spike hazard that gets melted if a fire type type cleans the field. Or brambles that get blown away by gusts 
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 04:55
|
|
|
WrightOfWay posted:There's nothing stopping Gamefreak from making Stealth Rock do the same amount of damage to every type but they probably don't care. It doesn't effect VGC at all and that's the only competetive metagame they care about. If they did that it would literally just be Spikes without the Flying caveat. This way, it's ~unique~, and more importantly, punishes anything that can nosell Spikes to begin with.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 07:10
|
|
|
or we could just remove the cancer that is spikes instead of making a cancer of every type
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 07:15
|
|
|
PMush Perfect posted:Stealth Rock needs to either be removed, or, perhaps, spread wider than one type. Maybe Ice and Dark type versions, too? Just have Rock-types absorb it on switch-in for a defensive boost. Maybe also introduce an ability or item that sweeps away entry hazards on switch-in.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 09:25
|
|
|
All that would do is make the ability/etc nigh-mandatory competitively.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 13:33
|
|
|
Not particularly. The ability could be tied to lesser statted mon, and the move is essentially giving you the choice of risking the damage or giving your opponent a free turn.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 14:52
|
|
|
KataraniSword posted:If they did that it would literally just be Spikes without the Flying caveat. This way, it's ~unique~, and more importantly, punishes anything that can nosell Spikes to begin with. That, plus Stealth Rock doesn't require layering like Spikes does to do its maximum damage. Stealth Rock is one and you're done, and oops now your fire/flying and flying/bug types lose HALF their HP when they switch in. As someone who runs a Skarmory, I agree it's pretty nuts!
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 15:12
|
|
|
so from what i gather pokemon uranium is pretty bad huh
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 15:17
|
|
|
Zuzie posted:More versions of Stealth Rocks would be fine, as long as more versions of Rapid Spin or other ways to remove entry hazards are also implemented. Maybe a Fire type or Water type moves that burns away or washes away hazards. Flame Wheel? IMO I don't get why rock resits fire, but Ice and Rock are weak to fighting. Punching ice and rocks hurts, a lot! But the idea seems to be martial artists break rocks with their hands. But if they're going with extreme examples, intense heat makes rocks into lava! Also, I've always found it weird how bad Ice is on defences. You think it'd be resistant to...well something other then itself.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 15:25
|
|
|
I think the idea with Fighting is that it's the precise application of force. Like how punching a block normally hurts, but if you are a Karate MasterTM you can break it in half.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 16:16
|
|
|
Oxyclean posted:Flame Wheel? The Fighting-type is explicitly martial arts-based, so yes, the idea with it being super effective against the "hard" types (Ice, Rock, and Steel) is that really skilled martial artists can break hard stuff with their fists or whatever. And that's not an extreme example in terms of fiction, that's basically the bare minimum to qualify as an anime protagonist, nor in terms of the game, where every move is some sort of martial arts move or a Kamehameha. Fire, on the other hand, only has a couple moves that involve lava. Now, funny thing, while metal is usually harder to melt than rocks, their popular depictions are generally the other way around. Metal is much more frequently shown being melted down, welded, or otherwise adversely affected by heat, while rocks are often shown serving as the sides of a fire pit, smothering fires, absorbing heat for various purposes, and so on. That's why Steel is weak to Fire while Rock resists it. Most type matchups make a sort of sense if you're willing to engage in some abstract thinking based more on fictional depictions and TV logic than reality. The ones that don't make a ton of sense to me are, first, why is Flying super effective against Fighting? I get the resistance (as silly as the "it's hard to punch a bird" logic sounds, it makes sense), but the weakness feels like an artifact of Fighting having once been some sort of "beast" type back when "Flying" was still "Bird" and all the types were going to be animals. The same goes somewhat for the mutual resistance between Bug and Fighting. I mean, there's a sort of logic to it (bugs are too weak to harm True Warriors, and when you try to squish certain beetles/roaches, they'll somehow be unharmed from the hit due to their shells), but it's a lot more flimsy than other matchups. As for your assessment of Ice, I agree. It should resist Flying like Rock and Steel do, at least, and I'd even say it should resist Grass, as part of the "ice makes plants wither" logic.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 16:21
|
|
|
EclecticTastes posted:The Fighting-type is explicitly martial arts-based, so yes, the idea with it being super effective against the "hard" types (Ice, Rock, and Steel) is that really skilled martial artists can break hard stuff with their fists or whatever. And that's not an extreme example in terms of fiction, that's basically the bare minimum to qualify as an anime protagonist, nor in terms of the game, where every move is some sort of martial arts move or a Kamehameha. Fire, on the other hand, only has a couple moves that involve lava. Now, funny thing, while metal is usually harder to melt than rocks, their popular depictions are generally the other way around. Metal is much more frequently shown being melted down, welded, or otherwise adversely affected by heat, while rocks are often shown serving as the sides of a fire pit, smothering fires, absorbing heat for various purposes, and so on. That's why Steel is weak to Fire while Rock resists it. Flying types can attack from weird angles and penetrate the fighters defensive stance maybe?
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 18:21
|
|
|
 Hey, d'ya get it? Tiko wears a skirt.  HE IS A MAN BUT WEARS AN ARTICLE OF CLOTHING THAT IS GENERALLY ASSOCIATED WITH FEMALES GET IT  the puzzle here is pushing boulders on to panels to make walls of fire go up and down.  Rocket Man has Earthquake for most of the fire-types and Rock Slide for the two not weak to Earthquake.   Zapmander can also show this stuff what-for, because Scald is disgustingly good.  GET IT HE IS WEARKING A ASSKJSIRT  We get to Tiko himself with no real issue. After rescuing him from Anthell he wants to see our moves.  ...Why is his face so soft and gentle? OFSelects: Electric Six - Dance Commander  By the way that's the skirt this game has been flipping its poo poo about.  Taking out this Palij in one hit means it can't plant Sunny Day, which would kind of suck when Tiko has a big set of firemen and I'm relying on a water move.  This ant is as lame as ever, so it's also one-shot.  Chimaconda, Chimical's evolution. It Curses to undo the edge in speed Petrify gave it while doing nothing to stop Scald from blowing it apart.  Pajay is the evolved form of Palij.   That 30% flinch chance sucks a ton, and Pajay is fast enough to make it count. Thankfully Zapmander doesn't fall for it and Scalds it down.  He has his own Inflagetah, and its normal colors look off to me because I'm so used to my shiny one.  Flame Impact and Extreme Speed are as ridiculously brutal here as on Rocket Man, but getting Scalded in the face once does it in. Electruxo is a loving house.   Oh finally I'm past all problems with his electric move too. Thunderbolt has been clocking in since 1996, making water- and flying-types never truly secure in their place in the world.  Get it it's a dance but also a spicy thing. At least it's not a loving skirt joke.  Badges aren't tied to HM usage in the final game, but thanks for telling me what my next HM is.   Overheat has a ludicrously high power but halves special attack after use. It's used for hit-and-runs, burst damage, and murder of Skarmory and Forretress.  Per usual, defeating a gym leader leaves us with no immediate place to go next but we run into Theo when trying to leave.  Of course we have to beat him up. Again.  His team is the same as before, except his Minyan evolved. Quetzoral/Vilucard/Nimflora/Linkite/Archilles.  Acrobatics is a good move, though. Not on Quetzoral at all, but Bzzztt would make it loving terrifying. Harptera learns it, yes.  His Archilles is shaping up though.  Like Thunderbolt, but fire! Fire Blast's accuracy is decent enough that it isn't a braindead choice. Maybe you want Flamethrower's PP and accuracy sometimes.  Theo copes with losing better than before, but in general seems distracted and frustrated.  Oh well, new HM.  Like Flamethrower, but water, with no side-effect, and is an HM move! Scald vs Surf is a question of power vs. that hefty 30% burn chance. I don't need the burn chance, but maybe something of your's does? Original: Pu-Surfing(mp3).ogg Yes it has the .ogg. Even the ridiculous orchestra can't save this melody from being inherently dull. Luckily, I don't have to deal with anything even vaguely related to a canon surfing theme. OFSelects: Dinosaur Jr. - Little Fury Things  Surf turns all those bodies of water from decorative walls to new passages. Uranium actually does a pretty good job of making this moment exciting. There are a lot of incidental ponds and lakes and rivers across west Tandor and a lot of them have items sitting on the other bank. And they have their own encounter tables, which means new friends!  Mostly just this guy, for now.  Y-you'll see.  Tinkerer gives us the item to replace strength, the power glove.  Dark-boosting item. Now My Fursona has some killer shades. I changed the wild Pokemon theme again at this point. OFSelects: T. Rex - Girl In The Thunderbolt Suit  It badly poisons your guy at the end of the turn. Seems pointless, but it'll activate abilities like Guts reliably, and a Pokemon can only have one major status at a time, so a poisoned thing can't be burned. It has its uses, you just have to look for them.   Extremely powerful, but extremely risky. But get a Substitute up and the risk is mostly gone. My Fursona's final form is really apt for abusing it, but I go a different direction with him. Mostly because he has Moxie and not his hidden ability Intimidate.  This is much better than a few tiles down from the road.  I have a Gyarados, Nep-Nep, and a matching mega stone, but with no key stone I can't yet mega evolve her.  The subway only goes to four places, these + Bealbeach. It's convenient enough, but it doesn't replace Fly. Which we still don't have.  Another mega stone in Passage Cave. This is the only thing that dates this game as post-ORAS.  I love the power glove. It's so... good.  There's a gang of bikers who like Dunsparce in here. I also switched up the trainer battle theme: OFSelects: Paradise Lunch - Stuff  And a strength puzzle. I hope you like those. Uranium has a lot.  It's kinda rare that My Fursona gets on a roll with Moxie boosts. I'm glad when it happens.  Turns out these bikers are all really good people! Okay???  MEGAWEAPON is back now that I've shown off enough other things and he's finally learning level up moves.  The leader of the Dunsparce Gang has Dunsparce's evolution! It's not just Digimon with angel dragons now! What!?   Dunseraph keeps its preevolution's Serene Grace, so this is a high-power flying move, off of Dunseraph's 100-base special attack, with a 60% chance to paralyze per use! Holy poo poo!  Dunseraph is flying/dragon, so Blizzard instantly obliterates it.  That was all a sidequest but there's no reward as the NPC is a dick. Uranium!  The berry shop's owner is back, and sells EV-reducing berries. Convenient, but a little terrifying in its implications.  And now I got stuck in the corner. Thankfully I can surf out, but why can I surf into walls in the first place? Uranium!  The tour has us back home. So let's wrap it up with a great big collection of evolutions.  Fire/Grass monkey was completely absent from the fire gym for some reason. Stat-wise it's a glass cannon with high attack, and it learns, like, every loving physical move in both of its types but leaf blade. It has Iron Fist for Fire Punch, or Technician with Bullet Seed, Flame Wheel, and Flame Charge. Get around how bad it is defensively and cope with its middling speed somehow and it could actually rip some heads off.  Of course, our own Quetzoral.  Braillip evolves into some sort of eel with arms and finally encases its brain in something. Sure? It's a special wall with a base 140 special defense.  Primeape's evolution is still not very good-looking. Its ability boosts its attack one stage whenever it gets hit, which almost might make this worth it, maybe.  Like Minyan, Lunapup evolves with a stone. It's slow, but fighting/ground is offensively rigorous and it has a big enough movepool to accent Drain Punch/Earthquake as STABs.  Another stone evolution. Glavinug is statistically acceptable but water/ice is just rancid typing. If you could get its hidden ability Snow Warning before the post-game that'd be one thing, but you can't. Alas.  Our own Pajay. It can't really do much besides use its special STABs, so trying to cheese as hard as possible off of its resistances is your only real option. Ground/Fire immunities are really something else, at least.  why does a cute little fart frog evolve into a pervert who is undressing me with his eyes it has nearly the same stat spread as Glavinug, which is pretty similar to Brainoar. Water/Poison is grossly effective defensive typing, though Blubelrog lacks Recover like the official water/poison walls.  The only mono-steel Pokemon in the universe. It kinda sucks statwise, leaning real hard into its 140-base defense. Head Smash with Rock Head is nice even without STAB, and Sheer Force is really good on a thing with STAB Iron Head. Too bad it's so slow and has a mediocre 100 base attack.  The HERO evolution, Kiricorn does action stages. It doesn't get the one physical Fairy move, Play Rough, until level 50. It has a disgustingly huge movepool, though. It'd be something if it had its hidden ability, Defiant, so it could come in on intimidates and only come out stronger for it.  Frynai evolves at level 36.  And again, with a water stone, into Daikatuna. Suck it down. Daikatuna is water/steel. Fast with a high attack stat, and decent physical bulk with awful special defense. I wish I had its hidden ability, Sheer Force, again! But it'd be even better here, with Waterfall to make anything that doesn't resist water his bitch.  And Gooey evolves into some sort of six-psudeopodded horse amoeba? As weird as it looks, Gellin is no slouch. It's a weird sun-based Grass/Electric that works out rather well in practice if kept away from fire things, as its types cover each other rather well. Rather tough with 90/75/100 defenses and its base 125 special attack lets it get lumps in even if you don't indulge it with weather.  With that I barely crack in to 100 species registered. Halfway there!  Bamb'o gives me another egg. This one's typing is Fairy/Dragon, so it's another new thing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 18:40
|
|
|
EclecticTastes posted:Most type matchups make a sort of sense if you're willing to engage in some abstract thinking based more on fictional depictions and TV logic than reality. Edit: This is what I get for leaving a reply window open.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 18:44
|
|
|
This game doesn't deserve a name as good as Daikatuna
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 18:49
|
|
|
EclecticTastes posted:The same goes somewhat for the mutual resistance between Bug and Fighting. I mean, there's a sort of logic to it (bugs are too weak to harm True Warriors, and when you try to squish certain beetles/roaches, they'll somehow be unharmed from the hit due to their shells) I think the poorest justification is Ground vs Poison, like what, you can't be poisoned if you're underground? Subterranean animals are resistant to venomous ones? Steel makes sense because steel types are typically either heavily armored or inorganic. With psychic I suppose you can argue "mind over matter" like meditating away an illness or something. But what, sand negates grime now?
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 18:52
|
|
|
the flamboyant dancer guy has 4 fire types, which i guess is meant to be HAHA HE'S FLAMING, and then one random chimera that doesn't really seem to fit the theme? am i missing something
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 18:55
|
|
|
Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:
Asgore confused at he own rear end. At least the snake still owns. Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 18:55
|
|
|
mandatory lesbian posted:the flamboyant dancer guy has 4 fire types, which i guess is meant to be HAHA HE'S FLAMING, and then one random chimera that doesn't really seem to fit the theme? am i missing something Chimaconda is Fire/Posion.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 19:06
|
|
|
this guy really likes his horse evolutions
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 19:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 02:56 |
|
|
mandatory lesbian posted:the flamboyant dancer guy has 4 fire types, which i guess is meant to be HAHA HE'S FLAMING, and then one random chimera that doesn't really seem to fit the theme? am i missing something chimera is fire/poison
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 19:10
|
|