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Let's order Paveways (both kinds), rockets, and an extra full flight's worth of IRIS-Ts. If we're holding off on using the Meteors, then we'll need to make sure we have lots of heatseekers.
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Apr 4, 2017 16:31
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Meteors are a world class missile. I can't really stress that enough. When the time comes to use them, they'll very seldom let us down. Definitely agreed on the Paveways though, that price can't be beat. And IRIS-T's are of course terrific. The Litening is a fantastic targeting pod, not so sure about the other option. The Bk90 is also quite a capable standoff weapon, but isn't a unitary HE warhead. They'd perform beautifully versus convoys, aircraft on taxiways etc though. Maybe even ok effects versus armor. Dandywalken fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Apr 4, 2017 |
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Apr 4, 2017 16:35
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I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest stocking up on air-to-air missiles. With China treating us the way they are, there's a good chance of more (and possibly better) aircraft being sent to intercept us when we go on missions.
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Apr 4, 2017 16:43
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Quick rundown of what these actually are: Yakovlev Yak-130: The Russian version of the Alenia M346 Master trainer jet. It's NATO reporting name is Mitten. In terms of its loadout, it's mostly unguided bombs, one 500kg TV-guided bomb and R-73 short range A2A missiles for self-defence. Let Walmart pick these up. BAE Hawk: Two seat trainer jet from the UK. We've already seen this discussed, not all that much more to add. Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker: Soviet/Russian primarily air-to-air fighter, think of it as an equivalent to the F-15 Eagle. Hard to say more without knowing what variant we are looking at. Sukhoi Su-25 Frogfoot: Soviet/Russian air-to-ground attack aircraft. Soviet take on the A-10 Warthog. Depending on variant it could just be a more armoured Sk60 or it may be capable of wreaking havoc on armour and radar installations with Vikhrs and Kh-59s. KAI F/A-50: South Korean light fighter. It's basically a Korean equivalent of our existing Gripen fleet. CMANO standard loadouts don't give it AMRAAMs, but I've seen advertising literature suggesting that it can use them. CAC/PAC JF-17 Thunder: Chinese developed light fighter for export. Pakistan builds them too. Originally based on the venerable MiG-21 by way of the Chengdu J-7, it's got BVR, capable anti-ship missiles and even IR-guided glide bombs. However, we're spending some considerable time and effort pissing off the Chinese, and we're currently working for India so don't expect much help from the Pakistanis either. McDonnell-Douglas F-4 Phantom: Old fighter-bombers with some new tricks. Can act as their own escort, can serve as backups for our Gripen fleet, there is a lot to love about these.
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Apr 4, 2017 16:45
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I'm not up to speed on modern and semi-modern equipment enough to dictate what we buy, but as a wise man once said: never turn down an opportunity to reload. We should definitely be buying up ammo. Also, as for what our principles are, they should be the most Goon-y of principles. History is written by the victor, and clearly the victor would hire us.  Politics is for suckers, we're just here to make money and not get shot.
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Apr 4, 2017 16:47
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we should probably get some mavricks too. Mission coming up is gonna be close air support and having a "gently caress this guy" option that's more agile than a paveway would be handy for not much extra cost
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Apr 4, 2017 16:47
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Dandywalken posted:The Litening is a fantastic targeting pod, not so sure about the other option. The SPK-39 is a reconnaissance pod, not a targeting one. We want to pick up Mjolnirs, there are anti-personnel and anti-armour variants, as well as IRIS-Ts and Meteors.
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Apr 4, 2017 16:53
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We have a lot of ability to use those Sk60s to turn undefended enemies into rocket-sprayed dead things, so I think giving the Gripens enough precision kit that they can run support and ghetto SEAD is probably a good idea. Use paveways and similar to hose anything that can shoot back while the rockets do the grunt work. Also that first one was a good mission but we should be more careful about trying to have our escorts between the friendlies and most likely enemies. It's a good thing the first set of Chinese fighters didn't go in hot the way the second did.
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Apr 4, 2017 17:07
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We want NATO compatible stuff so we probably should place a bid on the F/A-50s. Phantoms are fine but only if we get a set of spare engines for them.
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Apr 4, 2017 17:35
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Quinntan posted:Quick rundown of what these actually are: I might be underselling the SK60B here, but I think that the Su-25 - except for maybe the most basic variants - would be a straight upgrade to our ground attack assets, particularly since as it stands the SK60B can only really do work in permissive airspace. Although xthetenth has a point about using the Gripens as makeshift SEAD, we may not always have the luxury of splitting our Gripens, in which case us SK60B drivers are poo poo out of luck. It may be worth noting that if memory serves the Su-25 can carry short range IR missiles for self defence. e: Also the Su-25 is designed to be operated from rugged areas with extremely low turnaround times, which also makes them attractive.
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Apr 4, 2017 17:35
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Soup Inspector posted:I might be underselling the SK60B here, but I think that the Su-25 - except for maybe the most basic variants - would be a straight upgrade to our ground attack assets, particularly since as it stands the SK60B can only really do work in permissive airspace. Although xthetenth has a point about using the Gripens as makeshift SEAD, we may not always have the luxury of splitting our Gripens, in which case us SK60B drivers are poo poo out of luck. The freedom to not tie down gripens with non-permissive strike would be a valuable capability depending on how things go, yeah, and if the 25s can kick the door in that would be good. I have a feeling with a bidding war we may end up picking from the top choices based on price if someone else really wants one or another.
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Apr 4, 2017 17:39
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The Frogfoot is definitely a good choice I'd say. Especially after the patch when aircraft individual survivability is modelled and we get them coming back home torn up but still flying.
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Apr 4, 2017 17:45
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Not up on all the military terms, but Meteors seem hugely overpriced and would blow our entire budget. We're not exactly a first ranked company, we shouldn't take a contract where that kind of one-use weapon is needed. Also not sure why we'd buy a sensor pod given that our AWACS can canvas an entire country more or less for free.
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Apr 4, 2017 17:46
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I categorized our different weapons. All weapons loadouts have at least a pair of IRIS-T. Some, like the RB15F Anti-Naval package have Meteors as well. If you want me to provide more detail on a package let me know. I tried to smoosh it all into a nice infographic and said gently caress it. The SK60B's are just rockets. Visual range only.
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Apr 4, 2017 17:49
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Ooh, didn't notice the Mavericks at the bottom. Yeah, if this next one is CAS, then load up on those too!
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Apr 4, 2017 17:50
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Late to the post mortem analysis, but continuing to say that this is like the Muse of LPs. It's just so opulent.
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Apr 4, 2017 17:51
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Yooper posted:
This LP looks great! I really like the extra videos from our contacts. Go ahead and add me to the reserve list; callsign Topper. Procurement-wise, can we get a good deal on some mini-subs if we are going to run a shady ecoterrorism side business?
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Apr 4, 2017 17:59
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I vote Frogfoots and Phantoms. A2A poo poo is boring and will become even more boring once we become rich enough to fire Meteors (never?) and other BVR missiles that let AWACS operators feel like they're playing Red Alert. By the way, what could be considered to be off-brand Meteors and what planes could fly them? Would Su-27 be any more economical, loadout-wise? Edit: it's Tapco, not Capco 
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Apr 4, 2017 18:03
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Hell yeah, take that ammo bunker!! Anyway I think we should stock up on BVR missiles if we plan to go toe to toe with China. Als some Mavericks, Paveways and rockets should be amiss.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:04
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Random Axis posted:This LP looks great! I really like the extra videos from our contacts. Go ahead and add me to the reserve list; callsign Topper. Added! Erm, I'm not sure on subs. I'd have to do more research to see what's modeled and available. Initially no, but who knows down the road. JCDent posted:Edit: it's Tapco, not Capco Fixed!
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Apr 4, 2017 18:05
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Branching out into Soviet stuff seems like a bad idea, as is getting a dedicated CAS platform. Let's stick to the third party theme and get some of those Korean fighters, some IRIS and some Paveways.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:06
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Honestly, not really. The Meteor is a phenomenally good missile and is worth the price we're paying for them. The Russian equivalent, the R-77, isn't anywhere near as good, and would be paired with an aircraft with a larger RCS than our Gripens. That is of course assuming we get newish Su-27s. Older ones are limited to R-27s, and those are bordering on useless. You'd also be paying a relative fortune to keep the Su-27s running compared to Grips.
Quinntan fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Apr 4, 2017 |
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Apr 4, 2017 18:11
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Either the Su-25 or F/A-50 seem like good ideas, the -25s would have more A2G capability, and it'll probably be easier to scrounge cheap parts for them, while the F/A-50 will have more A2A capability (unless maybe we somehow score one of the upgraded Su-25s that can mount R-73s). Also, no on the boat.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:14
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Dandywalken posted:Congrats on a mission well done! I love this idea. Let's send a couple of planes out to do a tour. One in the US and one in Europe. Yooper posted:
I think we should look into getting the F-4 Phantoms and the F/A-50 Golden Eagles. The Phantoms should obviously be the top priority, since they're probably the most-capable aircraft on the table. But the F/A-50s are nifty little light fighters that can do the jobs too dangerous for the RB 60s and too petty for the Gripens. Also, they're two-seaters, so we can have goons be GIBs/WSOs/back-seaters/whatever we want to call them. People can also sign up to be co-pilots on the RB 60s, for that matter, too. Yooper posted:
Do we want a bulk order of ammun...? YES! Yooper, what do our current ammo and equipment stocks look like? If we already have enough recon and targeting pods to go around, then there's no need to buy the extras. Here's what I'd like us to buy: Air-to-air missiles 30 Meteor medium-range AAMs ($52,500,000) 50 IRIS-T short-range AAMs ($20,000,000) Air-to-ground weapons 100 GBU-12 laser-guided bombs 220,000 16 Mjolnir Mk2 anti-armor stand-off cluster missile ($6,800,000) 24 Mjolrnir Mk1 anti-personnel stand-off cluster missile ($5,400,000) 30 RB 75 Maverick EO Missiles ($6,7500,000) 500 M/70 135mm rockets ($1,400,000) Electronics 2 Lantirn FLIR and Targeting pods ($2,800,000) 1 SPK 39 EO photorecon pod ($2,100,000) Miscellaneous 25 1200-litre drop tanks ($475,000) For a total cost of: $99,225,000. I know it's a lot, but it'll give us the ability to shut down any Chinese efforts to interfre with us from the air. And gives us a bunch of air-to-ground options that will let us kill tanks, trucks, infantry, bunkers, bridges, supply dumps, airfields, boats and pretty much anything else we want dead. e: corrected the numbers. Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Apr 4, 2017 |
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Apr 4, 2017 18:20
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My own inclinations when it comes to aircraft to prioritise are the F-4 Phantom and Su-25 Frogfoot, in that order. Each one gives us particular capabilities that are substantial upgrades to the aircraft they'd be replacing, the Sk60s. The Phantom is fast, has a large payload and has impressive self-defence capabilities. The Su-25 is made to take a kicking and keep on ticking, and can sling ridiculous amounts of ordinance, but is only about as fast as the Sk60s, limiting its ability to respond fast to situations. We still have an issue with our anti-radar capabilities no matter which road we go down though. Maybe we can have Jack go to Poland and see if we can get their Su-22s... Edit: I agree with Barracuda with regards to what ordinance we should be buying. Quinntan fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Apr 4, 2017 |
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Apr 4, 2017 18:26
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Something that can do jamming would be a real good idea if the Chinese are getting serious about us. Also, have something hang back by our AWACS and tanker with Meteors, then use them to reach out and touch enemies without needing to light up their own radars. Big things to expect for the next mission is that we'll need to find and swat whatever the Chinese are using to fly that general in, and we'll probably also be asked to bomb chokepoints on the railway. There any such thing as a cheap ARM? Might be worth having a few of those available to lob at enemy radars and either blind them or force them to reveal hidden SAM sites to knock down our missiles.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:27
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The lack of anti radar missiles is a concern, yeah. We could triangulate the locations of emitting SAM batteries for standoff precision strike, but that takes expensive airframes to gather the Intel which necessitates an escort etc. That said, I like the suggestion for retired EA-6 Prowlers, possibly. ELINT, ECM and ECCM are all loving fantastic capabilites to have.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:31
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Really enjoying this LP so far. Put me down on the pilot list, callsign Beguiler.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:32
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Bacarruda posted:
I don't think we need extra photorecce stuff unless we suddenly double our Gripen fleet. Also, we probably could only really use 20 Mavericks and reduce the A2A order to 16 Meteors and 30 IRIS-Ts. PS: Put high-quality Coffee on the list, the local stuff is garbage.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:32
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I'm pro a more advanced ground attack aircraft. The SK60s seem quite limited. Put me in a Frogfoot!Yooper posted:In regard to REDACTED, I'm not sure. I had a city marker asset set to MERCS instead of CHINA so we saw the results. It's something I'll have to test out and see. I know on other scenarios you'll sometimes see events happening to allied forces. Yes, regarding REDACTED, there is an option to hide those messages in the options.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:34
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The Sandman posted:
If we're lucky there might be some AGM-45s we could pick up, though they aren't that great. If we buy Su-25s we could get some of the antiradiation versions of the Kh-25. AGM-88s are good but probably too expensive.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:34
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Triple A posted:I don't think we need extra photorecce stuff unless we suddenly double our Gripen fleet. Also, we probably could only really use 20 Mavericks and reduce the A2A order to 16 Meteors and 30 IRIS-Ts. There's no guarantee the prices are gonna stay the same, though, and they look incredibly cheap right now so I don't think things will get much lower. It's not like missiles expire (well, not on the timescales we care about) so why not stock up?
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Apr 4, 2017 18:35
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It also is worth keeping in mind that what we have seen are some of the shittiest Chinese fighters. They have their own stuff on par with our Gripens, and stuff surpassing it. When we start seeing 27's pop up on our radar warnings then it's time to assume shits getting kicked up a notch. God forbid we see a <10> 
Dandywalken fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Apr 4, 2017 |
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Apr 4, 2017 18:36
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Looking around on the web, it looks like the Israelis have a line of anti-radar drones. Any idea if CMANO has them in its database and what they'd cost us if it does?
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Apr 4, 2017 18:37
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You know, can we get our man in DC to lobby for the AGM-122B production getting greenlit? A sidewinder-sized ARM would be really nice.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:38
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LostCosmonaut posted:If we're lucky there might be some AGM-45s we could pick up, though they aren't that great. If we buy Su-25s we could get some of the antiradiation versions of the Kh-25. Shrikes are junk and would put our own aircraft well within the engagement window of enemy radar-guided SAMs, not to mention they're very easily spoofed. I'd be much happier firing off a $300,000 missile like the AGM-88 if it meant we wouldn't have to replace a multi-million dollar aircraft. Dandywalken posted:It also is worth keeping in mind that what we have seen are some of the shittiest Chinese fighters. They have their own stuff on par with our Gripens, and stuff surpassing it. When we start seeing 27's pop up on our radar warnings then it's time to assume shits getting kicked up a notch. WRT the Su-27, it has a much larger RCS than the Gripen, paired with a crappier radar and worse missiles. We'd see them coming before they'd see us, and we can engage them from further away than they can us. We're in trouble if we start seeing J-10s though.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:42
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Triple A posted:You know, can we get our man in DC to lobby for the AGM-122B production getting greenlit? A sidewinder-sized ARM would be really nice. Possibly, but what threats would it be used against? They are quite short ranged. If we go for ARMs, I think it's going to necessitate AGM-88 at least. The older stuff was utterly garbage in contrast, American and Soviet alike. Edit: ^^ Good point on the Flankers. Don't think China really has any comparable missile to the Meteors either Still, Flankers will be much more likely to evade long range shots than their lesser peers we've seen, so they may warrant 2 shots per contact. Same for the J-10 I'd wager. Dandywalken fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Apr 4, 2017 |
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Apr 4, 2017 18:43
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Bacarruda posted:
You've messed up the costs on the Meteors and IRIS: 30 Meteors cost $52.5 million, not $5.25 million, and 50 IRIS missiles are $20 million, not $2. Strach them, they are good but too expensive to bulk-buy. Also, our starting ammunition is a full loadout, so the numbers on the second graph.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:47
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Quinntan posted:We're in trouble if we start seeing J-10s though. Or even worse, if we start not seeing J-20s.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:47
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The Sandman posted:Or even worse, if we start not seeing J-20s. To be honest, that'd be sweet as gently caress. Not for it's victims, but the "Oh poo poo" moment when it fires it's missiles, assumedly having snuck up on our AWACs or a tanker. Would necessitate restructuring our flights and electronics discipline at very least. Or buying off/investment in human intelligence to let us know when hostile aircraft depart their base.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:53
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