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Sign me up as a pilot, call sign Mobius.
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Apr 5, 2017 07:10
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For everyone voting to buy all 8 F4-E that is almost all our money. I'd advise against blowing all our cash on a bunch of Vietnam era planes. Also, buy  foots.
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Apr 5, 2017 07:10
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Yooper posted:
I would. It would spark discussions about what sort of missions we'll be doing to choose packages we'll need. I also think it would be more realistic to have packages since I don't think you can go to a missile manufacturer and buy them "retail" one or two at a time. Quinntan posted:
I think this guy is on the ball; I'm voting yes on it. Also, like I said above I was taking all offers as "take it or leave it" not that we could take half the planes for half the money--barring using Jack to smooth things out that is. At the beginning we didn't say "keep the poo poo A2G planes and give us more Gripens." Could we have? (Edited for punctuation.)
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Apr 5, 2017 07:25
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I support buying at least four Phantoms and two drones Tangentially related question: what are our options for NATO/US-compatible anti-ship missiles? I checked wikipedia and apparently the Tomahawk TAS-M was withdrawn from service in the 90s. Are we going to have to at some point try for acquiring Backfires and SS-19 Shipwrecks?
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Apr 5, 2017 07:27
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Popete posted:For everyone voting to buy all 8 F4-E that is almost all our money. I'd advise against blowing all our cash on a bunch of Vietnam era planes. They're actually post-Korean War planes! The problem with picking anything else for acquisition is that, simply, there's nothing else that's as good except maybe that broken Flanker that'd cost an extra five million and still wouldn't be likely to work or possibly the JF-17s, but we've shot down Chinese jets already and we're based in India so the Pakistanis aren't going to give us support for them. The Phantoms are compatible with everything the Gripen uses in the A2G roles, and while it is a bit awkward that they take Sidewinders and AMRAAMs instead of IRIS-Ts and Meteors, that compatibility means we only have to buy one type of A2G munition and it will suit both the Phantoms and the Gripens, simplifying our logistics.
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Apr 5, 2017 07:33
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Popete posted:For everyone voting to buy all 8 F4-E that is almost all our money. I'd advise against blowing all our cash on a bunch of Vietnam era planes. Say what you will about Vietnam-era planes, but one of the major problems with the F-4 during the war was that the Sparrow was a junk missile with semi-active homing and the IR missiles were also pretty terrible. Thinking at the time was that the fighters would be missile boats, but the technology wasn't ready. Missiles like the Meteor actually let us use these cheap, old aircraft as the missile boats they were originally intended to be. Granted the F-4 radar is also terrible for the 21st century, but our AEW is spectacular and can overcome this to some degree. Besides, if we're going up against stealth planes that can get the jump on our older fighters, that's primarily because we'll have done a poor job of picking contracts suited to our capabilities. edit: but yeah we shouldn't go hog wild on all 8 Phantoms. It will cost us future opportunities without a huge gain in capability. Dong Quixote fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Apr 5, 2017 |
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Apr 5, 2017 07:34
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gradenko_2000 posted:I support buying at least four Phantoms and two drones We already have 12 RB 15F anti-shipping missiles that the Gripens can carry. We bought 'em in our initial arms deal with the Swedes and Germans. As for NATO missiles, we have the venerable Harpoon and we'll be able to use the new LRASM missile (which comes in ship-launched and air-launched flavors)
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Apr 5, 2017 07:35
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I vote for buying 8 Phantoms
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Apr 5, 2017 07:40
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Dong Quixote posted:Granted the F-4 radar is also terrible for the 21st century, but our AEW is spectacular and can overcome this to some degree. The Greek F-4s have the same radar as the F/A-18, it's actually a quite reasonable radar, all things considered.
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Apr 5, 2017 07:49
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Buy the Golden Hawks and a UAV, don't buy any Phantoms, drat, did a flight of Phantoms save a plane full of your collective mothers
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Apr 5, 2017 08:22
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It's somewhat inferior to the sensors on the grippen though. So we'd wanna use those as our primary a2a fighters.
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Apr 5, 2017 08:22
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Tythas posted:also sign me up for Pilot callsign zakalwe Baloogan posted:airforce? Jesus Christ. Scrap the Phantom and Su-25 purchases, we really don't have funds to keep those maintenance hogs flying and they offer no advantage compared to Gripens. Buy UAV and FA-50.
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Apr 5, 2017 08:33
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That'd be the idea, take advantage of the low RCS and advanced weapons of the Gripen and have that serve as our primary air-to-air fighter while the Phantoms serve as fighter-bombers, with the ability to fight their way to a target and bomb it to kingdom come before going home.Gervasius posted:Jesus Christ. The advantage the Phantoms give is the ability to haul a ton of ordinance while retaining long range defensive capability, something that both our Gripens and the FA-50 lacks. The FA-50 really suffers in this regard as in CMANO it doesn't have any long range anti-aircraft missiles. The Frogfoot is rugged as all hell, what with basically being a Russian Warthog. The FA-50 doesn't add anything to what we can do, at least the Phantom can take a load of bombs a long way. Quinntan fucked around with this message at 08:42 on Apr 5, 2017 |
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Apr 5, 2017 08:37
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Quinntan posted:That'd be the idea, take advantage of the low RCS and advanced weapons of the Gripen and have that serve as our primary air-to-air fighter while the Phantoms serve as fighter-bombers, with the ability to fight their way to a target and bomb it to kingdom come before going home. Why can't we have the FA-50s do that? What are the advantages of going with 40-years-old planes that cannot even reliably take off? Nobody is advocating buying the Phantoms as fighters and I don't think anyone thinks that's the point.
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Apr 5, 2017 08:42
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Tevery Best posted:Why can't we have the FA-50s do that? What are the advantages of going with 40-years-old planes that cannot even reliably take off? Nobody is advocating buying the Phantoms as fighters and I don't think anyone thinks that's the point. What the Phantoms can do that the FA-50s can't is shoot AMRAAMs. The Vietnam vets can engage targets beyond visual range, the FA-50s are limited to Sidewinders only.
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Apr 5, 2017 08:45
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Yooper, are you planning to do any fiddling with the aircraft loadouts in CMANO? E.g. allowing the F-4s to use RB 75s and/or letting them fly without all the weapons required for the default loadouts? If the answer's no, then as far as I understand, in addition to the main weapons we've been discussing, we'd need to buy at least an AN/ALQ-119 ECM pod and three drop tanks per F-4 just to send them out. AIM-9L Sidewinders, too, for the A/A loadouts (they can't use IRIS-Ts by default). E:To avoid confusion: The F-4 doesn't need the ECM pod for it's A/A loadout, only the lima Sidewinders and tanks. It needs the ECM pod for all the strike loadouts.
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Apr 5, 2017 08:45
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Quinntan posted:The Greek F-4s have the same radar as the F/A-18, it's actually a quite reasonable radar, all things considered. The APG-65 is the old radar for the legacy Hornets. I think most, if not all US F/A-18C legacy hornets fly with the APG-73, with the newer super hornets rolling with the 73 or 79 AESA radar. All the APG-65 will do once we're in a theater where old Uncle Ivan happened to sell jammers to the opposition is give our jets an even bigger radar cross-section. As long as we have our top-notch AEW though, and if our planes can shoot off linked contacts (assuming our ROE allows it), we'll hopefully do alright with top-of-the-line missiles that can actively seek in their terminal phase.
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Apr 5, 2017 09:05
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Quinntan posted:What the Phantoms can do that the FA-50s can't is shoot AMRAAMs. The Vietnam vets can engage targets beyond visual range, the FA-50s are limited to Sidewinders only. If we do not have any AMRAAMs and do not intend to use the F-4s as fighters anyway, then what's the difference?
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Apr 5, 2017 09:08
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Tevery Best posted:If we do not have any AMRAAMs and do not intend to use the F-4s as fighters anyway, then what's the difference? How about payload? The Phantom carries a lot more ordinance than the FA-50.
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Apr 5, 2017 09:11
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Quinntan posted:How about payload? The Phantom carries a lot more ordinance than the FA-50. I doubt we will need that ordinance capability outside of major conflict, we are a PMC, not a national air force.
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Apr 5, 2017 09:32
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ManifunkDestiny posted:Yooper, can we sell some of our SK105s? If so, for how much? Yes. Half of street value in India, or roughly $600k each. Quinntan posted:If we don't buy aircraft now, will we have another chance to buy them later or are they gone for good? They will be available later. However the price may vary depending on demand. In between theaters of operation it'll be possible to shop at BFLM and Ivanov's. VKing posted:Yooper, are you planning to do any fiddling with the aircraft loadouts in CMANO? E.g. allowing the F-4s to use RB 75s and/or letting them fly without all the weapons required for the default loadouts? I need to explore this some more to be honest. Both technically and in game. If a retrofit is a matter of some wiring harnesses and 1/2-13 threads instead of M12, then we're OK. There would be a cost of some sort, but we can work that out. I'd certainly rather see you guys pay a one time retrofit fee than have to juggle missiles from eight different eras and nations. I also need to verify that it's not a royal pain in CMANO to do. --- I'll let the discussion roll until this afternoon then we'll settle on a choice. In the future I'll break it apart into packages to simplify voting. After the fact we can always make adjustments and customize. Also I believe the pilot list is caught up. There's 57 pilots. Maybe we'll rotate on missions? Or just wait till someone dies? We'll see. I'm expecting a very important call from an Indian General any moment.
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Apr 5, 2017 11:40
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Here's a comparison of the two strike fighters people are talking about : I've marked an asterisk behind weapons we already own. Overall, the Phantom brings a lot more to the table. It's the best bomber by far in terms of payload and weapons choices. It's got BVR missiles. But we're going to have to be prepared to pay for what we get. The F/A-50 is a fine aircraft, but it really doesn't have the weapons or the payload for the kind of ground attack missions that'll be coming along. If we can retrofit them to carry laser-guided bombs, TV Mavericks, IRIS-T, and AMRAAMS (or Meteors), then they become a more appealing choice. F-4E Phantom II  Pros: -Excellent air-to-ground capabilities. Can carry 6 Mavericks or 18 GBU-12 laser-guided bombs -Good air-to-air capabilities. Able to engage targets beyond visual range. Can carry a load out of 4 AIM-9L Sidewinders for dogfighting and 4 AIM-120 AMRAAMs for longer-range work -Uses many weapons we already own -Fast (can fly Mach 1.9 with a light load) -Multiple parts suppliers -Large pool of ex-German, Turkish, Greek, Korean, and Japanese pilots and backseaters -Durable airframe Cons: -Unreliable (20% chance of missing a mission) -Maintenance intensive -Fuel hog -Unmaneuverable -High operating costs Stats: Crew: 2 Min Speed: 350 kt Max Speed: 925 kt Max Payload: 8480 kg Sensors: AN/APG-65GY Radar: 148.2 km range AN/ALR-66(VE) Radar Warning Receiver: 222.2 km Stores: Litening Sensor, Night Navigation and Targeting Pod AN/ALQ-119 Jamming Pod 370 USG Drop Tank 600 USG Drop Tank Weapons: Air-to-air M61 Vulcan 20mm cannon AIM-120B AMRAAM: 74.1 km range AIM-9L Sidewinder 18.5 km Air-to-ground Mk82 500lb bomb: 1.9 km Mk84 2000lb bomb: 1.9 km Mk20 Rockeye II cluster bomb: 1.9 km GBU-10E/B Paveway II 2,000lb laser-guided bomb: 7.4 km *GBU-12D/B Paveway II 500lb laser-guided bomb: 7.4 km GBU-24A/B Paveway III 2,000lb laser-guided bomb: 14.8 km range *BK 90 Mjolner standoff cluster-dispensing missile: 14.8 km AGM-65G Maverick IR missile: 14.8 km *AGM-65B Maverick EO TV guided missile: 11.1 km. ********* F/A-50 Golden Eagle  Pros: -Low operating costs -Reliable -More agile Cons: -No BVR capability -Uses zero weapons and stores we already own (unless they can carry the EO Mavericks?) -Slower (Mach 1.5 max) -Can act as an advanced trainer for new pilots and backseaters Stats: Crew: 2 Min Speed: 350 kt Max Speed: 780 kt Max Payload: 3,740 kg Sensors: EL/M-2032 Radar: 148.2 km range Stores 150 USG Drop Tank Weapons Air-to-air A-50 20mm cannon AIM-9S Sidewinder: 18.5 km range Air-to-ground Mk82 500lb bomb: 1.9 km. Land Max: 1.9 km. Mk20 Rockeye II cluster bomb: 1.9 km GBU-38(V)1/B JDAM 500lb GPS guided bomb: 22.2 km AGM-65G2 Maverick IR guided missile: 14.8 km HYDRA 70mm Rocket: 3.7 km Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Apr 5, 2017 |
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Apr 5, 2017 11:45
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Tevery Best posted:Buy the Golden Hawks and a UAV, don't buy any Phantoms, drat, did a flight of Phantoms save a plane full of your collective mothers Ya boyee, plus a boat
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Apr 5, 2017 11:48
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  The streets here have gone loving wild. Sweet Jesus. The Dalai Lama pulled out of his coma and just made a surprise visit to Arunachal Pradesh. This is a huge political statement showing that he stands behind the Indian government and not the TLA. China has a boner about this something fierce. The TLA spokesman just had a conniption fit on twitter. Shits gonna get real boys. And don't even get me started about the guy in the yellow dong hat. edit : Literally ripped from the headlines. I was gonna photoshop something like this but the real world helped me out.
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Apr 5, 2017 11:51
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Yooper posted:I need to explore this some more to be honest. Both technically and in game. If a retrofit is a matter of some wiring harnesses and 1/2-13 threads instead of M12, then we're OK. There would be a cost of some sort, but we can work that out. I'd certainly rather see you guys pay a one time retrofit fee than have to juggle missiles from eight different eras and nations. I also need to verify that it's not a royal pain in CMANO to do. That'd be excellent! If we could get Laser-guided bombs, Lantirn pods, and AMRAAMs on the F/A-50s, that'd make them a very tempting purchase. Yooper posted:I'll let the discussion roll until this afternoon then we'll settle on a choice. In the future I'll break it apart into packages to simplify voting. After the fact we can always make adjustments and customize. Also I believe the pilot list is caught up. There's 57 pilots. Maybe we'll rotate on missions? Or just wait till someone dies? We'll see. We can always have people be the WSOs on the Phantoms (or the F/A-50s) if/when we get them. You can give shout-outs to the whole crew in the videos ("Baloogan and DSM score a perfect hit on the bridge!" etc etc) I'd happily give up my pilot spot to be a backseater.
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Apr 5, 2017 11:52
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Any way to refit a couple of those Phantoms into Gs?
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Apr 5, 2017 12:16
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Since we all seem to be piling on to the Phantom bandwagon pretty hard, I'd say don't buy all the Phantoms. We can't afford to blow too much of our cash at this stage! Yooper, if we sell our SK60Bs, will their pilots get auto-transferred to the Phantoms?
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Apr 5, 2017 12:26
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Buy four Phantoms, not all eight. Eight is too expensive, and I don't think we'll ever need that many planes at once.
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Apr 5, 2017 12:47
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Do we know how much AMRAAMs cost? Can we count on them being about like the Meteors or could they be much more expensive?
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Apr 5, 2017 12:51
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Soup Inspector posted:Yooper, if we sell our SK60Bs, will their pilots get auto-transferred to the Phantoms? Yup! The only time I'd drop someone from the flight line in a similar situation is if they've flown a mission that way someone else gets a chance.  Command Decision Picking planes is fun. Making crazy mission choices is fun. Hiring juggalos is fun. Playing 21st century logistics simulator isn't as fun. Ground rules for munitions.
This lets you fly whatever the gently caress you want, but still have to pay for it. Same for planes. If you want to fly a 1950's era jet, you can (if it's available), but the hourly flight cost will be exorbitant. A "medium" range A/A missile from 1961 will cost say, 60% more than the modern version. This accounts for the fact it's basically a museum piece you're paying some contractor to manufacture. You get modern day prices with 50 year old performance. This also saves me a big chunk of time playing in excel and juggling missiles. I think this gives us the realism of paying for what we need while also letting the fun shine through. So your Rheinmetall RSD 58 will cost you $400,000 * 1.6 = $640,000 or thereabouts. So disregard the previous ammo purchases. You guys have $88 mil to burn on planes. Or a boat. Or whatever. (Just kidding on the boat. For now.)
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Apr 5, 2017 12:56
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goon aircraft carrier
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Apr 5, 2017 12:57
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Baloogan posted:goon aircraft carrier Only if we get a goon Carrier Battle Group to go with it. 
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Apr 5, 2017 13:10
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Baloogan posted:goon aircraft carrier how giddy are you watching this lp
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Apr 5, 2017 13:19
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I want to bomb and if I can do that as a WSO, so be it. Also, judging by goon response, 21st century logistics sim is more fun than even bombing juggalos.
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Apr 5, 2017 13:27
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Cool, more planes for us to fly! 5 F-4E Phantom IIs ($42,500,000) 3 FA-50 Golden Eagles ($40,500,000) 2 Sperwer UAVs ($3,000,000) That's a total cost of $86,000,000 While we're thinking about upgrades, it'd be great to get AMRAAMs and laser-guided bombs retrofitted to the Golden Eagles.
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Apr 5, 2017 13:27
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Also, forgot to ask. Sign me up as a backseater, callsign grouse.
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Apr 5, 2017 13:30
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HerpicleOmnicron5, our own Stool Pigeon is doing a live-time 24 hour CMANO stream. No time compression. https://www.twitch.tv/herpicleomnicron5
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Apr 5, 2017 13:39
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Yooper posted:HerpicleOmnicron5, our own Stool Pigeon is doing a live-time 24 hour CMANO stream. No time compression. Thanks for the shoutout, but don't be expecting any action for the next six hours! also buy the freaking phantoms they are great what is wrong with you people
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Apr 5, 2017 13:54
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So since the frigate is a joke FOR NOW (not giving up), who wants to go steal that CVBG in the Bering Straits? E: Bacarruda I'm 90% on board with your plan, but can we cut the Golden Eagle buy down to just 2 so we have a bit more reserve cash? I don't like having just 2 million for all our operating costs. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Apr 5, 2017 |
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Apr 5, 2017 13:58
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*smoky, crowded boardroom* Boss: "Alright, we need to come up with some options for a ground attack mission. We've engaged a bridge and total of four fighters so far." *Murmurs, hushed conversation* Goon in the back: "Spend every dollar we have on 40 year old jets." *Chorus of huzzahs, table pounding*
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Apr 5, 2017 14:00
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