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This gideon, eventually +0 for emblem, launch 4 mana Gideon and laugh as you drown the board in chaff and never die
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Apr 5, 2017 16:07
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GonSmithe posted:Why do they make every Gideon so good, what the gently caress http://magiccards.info/gtc/en/13.html
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Apr 5, 2017 16:08
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Elyv posted:Ladies and Gentlemen, I have a question of you. Are you looking for the next Night's Whisper? The next Read the Bones? The next Painful Truths? Because boy howdy this card is not that Eh it's fine for a grindy limited format, and standard still has Painful Truths. Not every card has to be scrutinized for power level.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:10
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Errant Gin Monks posted:And doomsday. Miracles doesn't play to win before turn 20 anyway and can just kill it with Mentor. Enchantress builds run some number of o ring effects, kill with Emrakul or a swarm of angels, and also no one plays it. Doomsday I'll give you. mcmagic posted:How does any Delver variant beat it backed up by some disruption? Red delver decks: creatures + bolts. Green delver decks: Abrupt Decay. I think it still might be playable, but no answers is a significant overestimation
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Apr 5, 2017 16:10
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T2 Heart of Kiran, T3 Gideon into emblem, crew Heart, swing. T4 animate Gideon, crew Heart with a loyalty counter, swing for 8, drop Gideon, make a Knight.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:11
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The only standard format where a card like this is reasonable is one in which Lightning Bolt is legal. It's at least as powerful as Ally, might be more so.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:11
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Errant Gin Monks posted:And doomsday. I don't think it's a problem for Miracles at all. You can't attack with it into Miracles' open mana because our removal doesn't respect indestructible, the +1 isn't particularly relevant, and you can just put your opponent to dead and then deal with the Gideon with mentor tokens or angels or council's judgement or Venser or w/e. Nowhere near as scary as Ally of Zendikar is for us.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:12
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mcmagic posted:You need multiple creatures to attack it. As we all know, Delver only runs one creature, and also the deck with Force, Daze, Wasteland, Bolt, and Abrupt Decay has no other ways to interact with a 3 mana sorcery.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:12
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Every legacy deck that can't kill it in combat can run abrupt decay or judgment.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:12
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Elyv posted:Miracles doesn't play to win before turn 20 anyway and can just kill it with Mentor. Enchantress builds run some number of o ring effects, kill with Emrakul or a swarm of angels, and also no one plays it. Doomsday I'll give you. You're talking a 2 or 3 for one and that is best case. NTM it's it's own clock and it's not like you won't back it up with disruption. ChewyLSB posted:As we all know, Delver only runs one creature, and also the deck with Force, Daze, Wasteland, Bolt, and Abrupt Decay has no other ways to interact with a 3 mana sorcery. Delver decks are terrible at going wide.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:13
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mcmagic posted:You need multiple creatures to attack it. I guess a three-mana spell that answers a single creature and gains some life is just the straw that breaks the back of Legacy.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:13
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mcmagic posted:You're talking a 2 or 3 for one and that is best case. NTM it's it's own clock and it's not like you won't back it up with disruption. Have you ever heard of our Lord and savior swords to plowshares?
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Apr 5, 2017 16:16
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This card is AT WORST the 2nd best 3 mana walker ever printed. It might be the best one.Skyl3lazer posted:Have you ever heard of our Lord and savior swords to plowshares? 1) You won't attack into swords mana if you aren't terrible. 2) You'll have your own swords to protect gideon.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:16
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Jabor posted:I guess a three-mana spell that answers a single creature and gains some life is just the straw that breaks the back of Legacy. I think mcmagic is being a bit hysterical, but that's a disingenuous way of describing a PW.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:17
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Archfiend of Ifnir 3BB Creature - Demon Flying Whenever you cycle or discard another card, put a -1/-1 counter on each creature your opponents control. Cycling 2 (2, Dicard this card: Draw a card.) So does anyone think this one has some potential? Reminds me of the good old days of Phyrexian Plaguelord and Thrashing Wumpus. Big black curve-topper that wipes out your opponent's board and gets in there. I think the cycling makes it pretty likely to see some play.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:18
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mcmagic posted:This card is AT WORST the 2nd best 3 mana walker ever printed. It might be the best one. Both lilis say hello 1) guess he isn't much of a clock then 2) stp is strong against council's judgement. Have you ever actually played legacy?
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Apr 5, 2017 16:18
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Skyl3lazer posted:Both lilis say hello You really aren't taking into account the way the play patterns of games go if you don't see the power level of this card. It's better than Last Hope. Also, Counsel's Judgement is a 1 of in 2 Legacy decks. It's not an easy answer to play.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:22
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Rinkles posted:I think mcmagic is being a bit hysterical, but that's a disingenuous way of describing a PW. What else does it do? I guess it turns into a clock eventually, maybe? I mean, it's definitely insane in Standard (the land of 3 mana removal spells), where all those extra upsides are meaningful. But in Legacy etc. it's less efficient as an answer (relative to everything else you could use instead), and the other upsides are way less meaningful. -- As an aside, if you're playing a Doomsday deck and have literally no bounce spells or abrupt decays you can put in your pile, you kinda deserve what you get.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:23
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mcmagic posted:You're talking a 2 or 3 for one and that is best case. NTM it's it's own clock and it's not like you won't back it up with disruption. Yes it will be impossible for them to have 2 creatures or lightning bolts or abrupt decay, good catch. It's a good card but it isn't the unbeatable legacy nightmare you're pretending it is.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:23
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I mean, this totally signals a Heroes Downfall reprint, right guys? eh? guys?
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Apr 5, 2017 16:24
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This guy is arguably more powerful than second Lilly, though.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:24
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Sigma-X posted:Yes it will be impossible for them to have 2 creatures or lightning bolts or abrupt decay, good catch. It's only a nightmare in standard. But it's going to be very good in Legacy too.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:24
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Permanents dying to removal doesn't seem like the best way to criticize this card tbh. In my mind, the weakest thing about it is that it will never generate card advantage. It can lock down a creature and force your opponent to dig for an answer, but it can't leave anything behind. It's still very powerful, but it's not the best 3 mana Planeswalker ever printed.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:25
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Sigma-X posted:This guy is arguably more powerful than second Lilly, though. This guy accrues no card advantage while he sits around and that's a real thing.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:25
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Smashing Link posted:Archfiend of Ifnir The problem is it's a 5 mana sorcery that gains no value without extra resources. Cycling definitely makes it at least enter the conversation, but you're not including a clunky draw 1 if the base card doesn't stand on its own. ATM, I don't think the effect is powerful enough given the required set up.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:25
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Sigma-X posted:This guy is arguably more powerful than second Lilly, though. Only in standard I think. Not better than either Liliana in eternal formats.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:25
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Welp, no way I'm not playing Grasp for a while.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:26
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At the very least I figure this card wasn't meant to have 4 mana Gideon in standard with it.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:26
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mcmagic posted:You really aren't taking into account the way the play patterns of games go if you don't see the power level of this card. It's better than Last Hope. Also, Counsel's Judgement is a 1 of in 2 Legacy decks. It's not an easy answer to play. What deck do you think wants Gideon, and in what circumstances? Because i see it as "marginal sideboard card" right now
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Apr 5, 2017 16:28
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TheKingofSprings posted:This guy accrues no card advantage while he sits around and that's a real thing. It's +1 is Virtual card advantage. Elyv posted:What deck do you think wants Gideon, and in what circumstances? Because i see it as "marginal sideboard card" right now Easily death and taxes, possibly Miracles and Abzan Loam variants.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:29
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Some ad nauseam players have pointed out that this might be a 1 or 2 of in the deck.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:30
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mcmagic posted:It's +1 is Virtual card advantage. If you're +1'ing every turn, you've spent one card, and answered one card. That's not "advantage", that's a 1-for-1.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:30
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Lmao this Gideon turbofucks aetherflux reservoir decks but y'all are being a little hysterical about its impact in eternal formats
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Apr 5, 2017 16:30
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Jabor posted:If you're +1'ing every turn, you've spent one card, and answered one card. That's not "advantage", that's a 1-for-1. That isn't how planeswalkers work. It sits on the table and generates more card advantage as it sits there because you only pay for it once. If it blanks a creature for 2 turns that is already card advantage.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:32
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mcmagic posted:It's +1 is Virtual card advantage. I don't want this card in Miracles.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:33
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mcmagic posted:It's +1 is Virtual card advantage. I think you're just shouting jargon at random now. Accept your lord and savior abrupt decay and relax. D&T playing a 3 cmc planeswlker are you serious
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Apr 5, 2017 16:34
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mcmagic posted:That isn't how planeswalkers work. It sits on the table and generates more card advantage as it sits there because you only pay for it once. If it blanks a creature for 2 turns that is already card advantage. That isn't how card advantage works
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Apr 5, 2017 16:34
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Ah, now I understand why they were scared of showing us Amonkhet's Constructed cards.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:34
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mcmagic posted:That isn't how planeswalkers work. It sits on the table and generates more card advantage as it sits there because you only pay for it once. If it blanks a creature for 2 turns that is already card advantage. You know what else answers a creature for two turns? Doom Blade. mcmagic posted:Easily death and taxes, possibly Miracles and Abzan Loam variants. I play D&T and I'm not sure why it would be better than some hate bear.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:34
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mcmagic posted:That isn't how planeswalkers work. It sits on the table and generates more card advantage as it sits there because you only pay for it once. If it blanks a creature for 2 turns that is already card advantage. Blanking the same creature 2 turns in a row isn't card advantage any more than plowing a delver is card advantage two turns later because I only paid for it once and the delver didn't get to attack for multiple turns because of it.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:35
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