Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans II

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Lemon-Lime: Aug 6, 2009

Finally watched the finale and the only thing I didn't like was Rustal suddenly deciding to democratise Gjallarhorn with no apparent reason or effort shown. The show would have been a lot stronger if Kudelia hadn't been sidelined and we'd actually seen the work put in during the timeskip to make the world better.

Other than that, good ending, though.

# ? Apr 3, 2017 20:00

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# ? May 10, 2024 18:30

Snooze Cruise: Feb 16, 2013; hey look,
a post

I am writing a fan fiction where Rustal is the one who dies and Iok democratizes Gjallarhorn.

# ? Apr 3, 2017 21:03

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

Snooze Cruise posted:

I am writing a fan fiction where Rustal is the one who dies and Iok democratizes Gjallarhorn.

We'd get Space Trump within two terms.

# ? Apr 3, 2017 21:04

Manatee Cannon: Aug 26, 2010

Monaghan posted:

I liked the ending a lot. They should have given more hints to rustal's plan though as it's kind of abrupt. It's not the worse thing in the world.

I'm also sorta glad that a gundam series actually had the balls to have the protagonist die. There hasn't been a really bittersweet ending to a gundam show since zeta (I'm not counting OVA's here).

yea I appreciate that it didn't pull its punches on that at the end. all of the main characters (mikazuki, orga, mcgillis) die and the best any of them accomplish is letting the rest of tekkadan escape into hiding

# ? Apr 3, 2017 21:30

MonsterEnvy: Feb 4, 2012; Shocked I tell you

Though it is implied that Rustal knows that Tekkaden's surviors are under Kudellia. He just does not care, cause they are officially dead and that is good enough for him.

Also has there ever been a gundam series were the main antagonist outright wins and never dies.

# ? Apr 3, 2017 21:36

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

I forget, did we ever get to see like, anything of Gaelio's sister in the ending?

# ? Apr 3, 2017 21:37

Manatee Cannon: Aug 26, 2010

last time we see her is talking to her dad about mcgillis before he dies. it was a weird omission

# ? Apr 3, 2017 21:46

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Gyra_Solune posted:

not only that, but making it so that default option doesn't turn them into instant high-tier pilots of insanely powerful mobile suits that can tear apart entire armies and keep going after they've been functionally nuked from orbit

I think that's a thing not to be overlooked about Iok Kujan's death - he stepped in there because they directly nailed these Gundams with literally the most powerful weapon of humanity's invention, and they were STILL running, and he STILL died - and Julietta was there, and she watched this happen, and everyone would believe her when she said something needed to be done because she was literally the flagship hero who finally took the Gundam's head. She probably had a significant hand in advising Rustal to make sure something like Tekkadan could never rise up again - after all, she was insistent about staying completely untouched by anything like the A-V, and now she has a horror story about exactly what it turns people into.

So Rustal has more or less complete control of Earth after it's all said and done, he knows strategically how dangerous Tekkadan and anything similar can be in the hands of some charismatic rear end in a top hat, the second most powerful person to him. The biggest name on Mars is Kudelia, who has direct personal motivations for doing away with child soldiers and Human Debris. Right behind him he has Julietta, someone who is a public hero on a scale not seen since Kaieru and the original Seven Stars, who ALSO has personal motivations for making sure the warriors of the world aren't insane inhuman meat processors for crazy ancient war machines of which very few have known locations. Teiwaz is still powerful, and the two big names there, McMurdo and Azee, both had deep connections to Tekkadan, with Azee in particular particularly driven by the death of her close friend from this whole mess. The Seven Stars themselves are in shambles, with three of their brightest stars dead and a fourth occupied with rehabilitation while the other two are no-names - I don't know how the Seven Stars work, but if it is at all dynastic in nature, there are exceedingly likely to be succession conflicts in the wake of there being openings for exceedingly powerful positions. And the singular thing Rustal cares about is stability.

There is nothing less stable than refusing to do away with something the public at large will clamor for you to do, or something almost all of the most powerful kingpins around you are clamoring for you to do, and while you're sitting large as a hero who kept the solar system safe, you might as well reform the system to shield it from the likelihood of coming succession crises and wars between petty nobles and claimants to the throne of the Seven Stars. I think Rustal's decision is obvious when you look carefully at how exactly the solar system will be administrated in the years following the attempted coup, and I don't think his motivation changed at all. He was someone willing to defy tradition in the name of stability, and now that he's the only Star worth a drat he has both the means and a good reason to see the current system as unsustainable.

I don't really buy Rustal viewing Tekkadan as truly dangerous from a military standpoint. For all the fury and power of Tekkadan, they achieved basically nothing of value in their battle with Arianhrod and got completely wrecked for their trouble; the only time they ever presented anything resembling a threat was during Shino's failed assassination run, and the ease at which Rustal fended off McGillis trying to pull the same thing later on suggests it is a mistake Rustal realized and corrected for. His language when he orders the Dainsleifs to be fired on Mika/Akihiro is one of complete control. They're mad, rabid dogs, but he has the means to put them down with little effort or cost on his part if he wills it. It's a direct repeat of McGillis's final stand; McGillis is a lunatic who goes to his death believing he's the strongest man in the world and all of his opponents are dumbstruck by his power, but in reality the only reason he's still alive is because Rustal finds it amusing and interesting to see him fight Gaelio. Individual power is meaningless compared to coordinated group action.

Rustal's decision to help Kudelia outlaw human debris is a practical one for someone who is stability-minded. It's pretty difficult to foster a stable standard of living that breeds law-abiding citizens when children are living in such poverty that their only way to survive is to sell themselves into menial slavery.

Caros posted:

Crushing them utterly was important to reestablish the legitimacy of gjallerhorn as king poo poo, which was the only reason the reforms could be passed in the first place.

If he has just murdered McGillis and his fleet then the various economic blocks/space mafia/whatever look at gjallerhorn and see them as weak. They got trumped in Edmonton by child soldiers and then had a large internal rift that led to significant damage to the earth orbit fleet. That doesn't project power, that projects weakness and an insecure house.

Going after Tekkadan, and Mika in particular, reestablished the old Gjallerhorn myth of killing demons, wiped out the Edmonton loss and showed that if you messed with Gjallerhorn it didn't matter how strong you were, they would mess you up.

That was even the point of his whole threat to Orga and why he didn't let them surrender. It wasn't enough to beat them. He had to obliterate them.

Tekkadan was only important in the grand scheme of things to Rustal because of their decision to back McGillis. Rustal doesn't really give a poo poo about child soldiers in particular. It's established by the start of S2 that there are dozens of mercenary organizations in the setting utilizing child soldiers with AV hookups as cannon fodder and Rustal didn't give a poo poo about crushing any of them; obliterating Tekkadan was only necessary because they decided to throw in with McGillis and stuck with him even after his initial defeat. This allowed him to publicly defame them as mad dogs who needed to be put down for the sake of peace and security. He would have done the exact same thing if the people working with McGillis were instead the Brewers or the Dawn Horizon Corps or Jasley's Teiwaz or literally anyone else.

# ? Apr 3, 2017 22:09

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

Manatee Cannon posted:

last time we see her is talking to her dad about mcgillis before he dies. it was a weird omission

Yeah, that';s weird, I'd have at least expected a shot of her all Miss Havisham in her abandoned mansion cradling Macky's bloodstained bandage or something.

# ? Apr 3, 2017 22:24

AtomikKrab: Jul 17, 2010; Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.

ImpAtom posted:

Yeah, that';s weird, I'd have at least expected a shot of her all Miss Havisham in her abandoned mansion cradling Macky's bloodstained bandage or something.

Opens up the possibilities for her going crazy etc using her name to build a new civil war etc, and then in 10 years little Mika has to deal with her in the hybrid Barbatos/Guison.

(Also they literally just combined the working bits of Bael and Kimaris together to make a functional gundam didn't they?)

# ? Apr 3, 2017 23:46

Lily Catts: Oct 17, 2012; Show me the way to you
(Heavy Metal)

Pretty happy with the ending. Like, everyone wins in their own way. Even the ones who didn't make it.

I hope I'm not the only person who went "Aww" when Eugene chided Chad for wanting to spend time with Yamagi.

# ? Apr 4, 2017 03:17

Zebulon: Aug 20, 2005; Oh god why does it burn?!

AtomikKrab posted:

(Also they literally just combined the working bits of Bael and Kimaris together to make a functional gundam didn't they?)

It's just straight up Bael, but heavily restrained and with the entire cockpit block removed.

# ? Apr 4, 2017 03:20

MonsterEnvy: Feb 4, 2012; Shocked I tell you

Zebulon posted:

It's just straight up Bael, but heavily restrained and with the entire cockpit block removed.

Ah so no one can ever use it again.

# ? Apr 4, 2017 04:33

Diabetes Forecast: Aug 13, 2008; Droopy Only

Psycho Landlord posted:

I just want to say that I'm really glad there wasn't some eleventh-hour Mobile Armor bullshit.

But that's what Mika was!

MonsterEnvy posted:

Also has there ever been a gundam series were the main antagonist outright wins and never dies.

I mean TECHNICALLY speaking the villian here did die (McGillis), and our big final clash was 'the devil' tearing things to shreds before finally succumbing to it's own wounds.

What's interesting here is Season 2 as a whole has pretty effectively vilified Mika and showed that ANYONE who chased after his kind of power would get burned by it. He wasn't necessarily an evil, but everyone who saw him saw how much better he was at fighting, and how it took him little effort to do well. Everyone who chased it died. Orga, McGillis, Hush too. His final fight was him literally letting the devil loose on his body while he finally just played around, destroying his body in the process. He's not necessarily the bad guy of the show, but he's the devil of Ghallarhorn, and in the end became the Mobile Armor everyone was scared to death of.

That doesn't stop me from admiring just how loving cool that fight was and just how much fun Barbatos Lupus Rex is with all it's neat little gadgets and weapons, though.

Diabetes Forecast fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Apr 4, 2017

# ? Apr 4, 2017 06:30

chiasaur11: Oct 22, 2012

Diabetes Forecast posted:

But that's what Mika was!

I mean TECHNICALLY speaking the villian here did die (McGillis), and our big final clash was 'the devil' tearing things to shreds before finally succumbing to it's own wounds.

What's interesting here is Season 2 as a whole has pretty effectively vilified Mika and showed that ANYONE who chased after his kind of power would get burned by it. He wasn't necessarily an evil, but everyone who saw him saw how much better he was at fighting, and how it took him little effort to do well. Everyone who chased it died. Orga, McGillis, Hush too. His final fight was him literally letting the devil loose on his body while he finally just played around, destroying his body in the process. He's not necessarily the bad guy of the show, but he's the devil of Ghallarhorn, and in the end became the Mobile Armor everyone was scared to death of.

And Julieta, the only character to explicitly reject his power, survived pretty much unscathed. Kind of clever.

# ? Apr 4, 2017 10:59

Hunt11: Jul 24, 2013; Grimey Drawer

chiasaur11 posted:

And Julieta, the only character to explicitly reject his power, survived pretty much unscathed. Kind of clever.

A lot of that is due to Julieta being smart enough to recognize that fighting Mika is an extremely bad idea.

# ? Apr 4, 2017 11:03

Wark Say: Feb 22, 2013; by Fluffdaddy

Hunt11 posted:

A lot of that is due to Julieta being smart enough to recognize that fighting Mika is an extremely bad idea.

I think that Julieta becoming humbled by defeat and sort of is a nice part of her development as a character and that I came to see her and Gaelio surviving the series as something neat. She learned that out there were people who could push her poo poo HARD (Amida and Mika offering first-hand experience) and learned to work around that.

# ? Apr 4, 2017 13:40

RottenK: Feb 17, 2011; Sexy bad choices

FAILED NOJOE

Schneider Heim posted:

Pretty happy with the ending. Like, everyone wins in their own way. Even the ones who didn't make it.

I hope I'm not the only person who went "Aww" when Eugene chided Chad for wanting to spend time with Yamagi.

I'm a little disappointed that Yamagi didn't get any scenes in the last episode. I'm happy that he seems to have a life, but it'd be great to see him in more than just a still image at the end.

# ? Apr 5, 2017 07:04

jackhunter64: Aug 28, 2008; Keep it up son, take a look at what you could have won

I think one thing we can all definitely agree on is that this series had a really good soundtrack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SM62_ot7rdc

# ? Apr 5, 2017 17:16

HukHukHuk: Jun 27, 2011; I am the sound of cats and hairballs.

Iok's justice = best justice

# ? Apr 8, 2017 08:26

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

There's a new IBO interview out, if anyone can read Japanese.

# ? Apr 9, 2017 18:22

chiasaur11: Oct 22, 2012

Darth Walrus posted:

There's a new IBO interview out, if anyone can read Japanese.

I don't, but experience is making google translate slightly less nonsensical.

Basically, it's giving the same information as previous interviews. The director's original plan for the ending was to wipe out Tekkadan entirely (live by the sword...), but a number of people on the staff, most prominently Mari Okada, thought that was a bad call because the viewers had a lot invested in everyone's favorite murderous psychos (and, you know, a lot of the staff did too). The current ending was a compromise, after a lot of discussion about how to bring the plane in for a bumpy landing instead of just ramming the sucker.

There's going to be more details in the official guidebook released June tenth, and some interviews in Newtype. But yeah. It's interesting the first Gundam series to straight up no question off its protagonists is also the one where they changed the ending to make it less of a downer.

# ? Apr 9, 2017 23:42

Wark Say: Feb 22, 2013; by Fluffdaddy

Wait, so Okada fought for and got us a happier ending? :crossarms:

# ? Apr 10, 2017 00:26

chiasaur11: Oct 22, 2012

Wark Say posted:

Wait, so Okada fought for and got us a happier ending?

Listen to me and you shall hear, news hath not been this thousand year:
Since Herod, Caesar, and many more, you never heard the like before.
Holy-dayes are despis'd, new fashions are devis'd.
Old Christmas is kickt out of Town.
Yet let's be content, and the times lament, you see the world turn'd upside down.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 00:39

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

Wark Say posted:

Wait, so Okada fought for and got us a happier ending?

You've seen her other original work, right? Lady has always been a big ol' romantic.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 00:41

Wark Say: Feb 22, 2013; by Fluffdaddy

Darth Walrus posted:

You've seen her other original work, right? Lady has always been a big ol' romantic.

From the names I often see in animes, I know this:

Urobuchi is an edgelord.
Yoshino and Okouchi are a buncha' mouthy smartypants.
Uezu is a weirdo but at the same time is a big ol' softie.
Kobayashi understands JoJo better than a ton of self-proclaimed JoJo experts.

What I've come to understand from Okada is that, while she does have a thing for good ol' drama, her works can be hard to peg down. IBO is definitely my favorite on her r�sum� as of right now, though.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 01:52

RottenK: Feb 17, 2011; Sexy bad choices

FAILED NOJOE

According to a translation of this made by someone on 4chan's /m/

quote:

Gaelio was paralyzed after Macky attacked him at the end of Season 1, was able to walk thanks to Eined up AV system. He got rid of AV after the end and is now paralysed again.

Almiria went crazy after Mcgilllis died.

Atra and Kudelia got married.

Akatsuki�s full name is �Akatsuki Augus Mixta Bernstein�.

Nagai wanted to make a story where all of Tekkada dies without accomplishing anything of importance.

Same sex marriages are completely normal in the IBO world.

In addition, not sure what the source is, and this is just a nice "what if" anyways, but apparently someone confirmed that if Shino survived he would've eventually married Yamagi, taking his last name :unsmith:

# ? Apr 10, 2017 03:02

Midjack: Dec 24, 2007

The bit about the AV seems to run counter to how it works everywhere else in the show. He didn't have to be plugged into Vidar to walk around.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 03:10

Manatee Cannon: Aug 26, 2010

the system he was using was different from what tekkadan used; mcgillis says that was specifically designed to allow him to use bael. remember that hush couldn't even get the surgery for it because he was too old at 17, so that's another difference

# ? Apr 10, 2017 03:14

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

Midjack posted:

The bit about the AV seems to run counter to how it works everywhere else in the show. He didn't have to be plugged into Vidar to walk around.

He was suspiciously attached to his armour - I don't think we ever saw him out of it. Some sort of A-V-controlled exoskeleton? We know from the side-story manga that artificial limbs use similar technology to the A-V system.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 03:15

Tae: Oct 24, 2010; Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!

They definitely emphasized the vast difference between all-the-money gallyhorn with AV technology and ghetto-garbage on what Tekkadan was using, since no one on their side used it in Teiwaz.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 03:15

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

RottenK posted:

According to a translation of this made by someone on 4chan's /m/

In addition, not sure what the source is, and this is just a nice "what if" anyways, but apparently someone confirmed that if Shino survived he would've eventually married Yamagi, taking his last name

"Almaria went crazy after McGillis died but not enough for us to show onscreen or anything" is kinda dumb.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 03:18

RottenK: Feb 17, 2011; Sexy bad choices

FAILED NOJOE

on 4chan some people said that in some.. interview with a voice actor i think, it was said that Gaelio's voice actor had influence on the story because Okada is his fan or something like that, and he heavily pushed for a happy ending for his character

I have literally zero idea if there's any truth to any of that, but i guess that could explain why we didn't see purple man's little sister going mad with grief

# ? Apr 10, 2017 03:28

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

RottenK posted:

on 4chan some people said that in some.. interview with a voice actor i think, it was said that Gaelio's voice actor had influence on the story because Okada is his fan or something like that, and he heavily pushed for a happy ending for his character

I have literally zero idea if there's any truth to any of that, but i guess that could explain why we didn't see purple man's little sister going mad with grief

It's pretty likely. Gundam (and anime series in general) have a habit of making adjustments for popular voice actors. It's why Andy Wartfelt survived in SEED and why Jermiah became The Most Important Man In The World in Geass.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 03:30

Monaghan: Dec 29, 2006

I'm not sure if I would have preferred the ending in which they all die and didn't accomplish anything. It's a tough call as it'd be a huge departure from a gundam show. It would be sobering that these kids who could have had everything lost it all because they tried to go too hard, too fast.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 03:48

RottenK: Feb 17, 2011; Sexy bad choices

FAILED NOJOE

it'd be a poo poo ending

# ? Apr 10, 2017 03:51

Manatee Cannon: Aug 26, 2010

they may not have all died, but tekkadan still never accomplished anything

# ? Apr 10, 2017 03:53

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

RottenK posted:

it'd be a poo poo ending

I'd say the opposite, the current ending is way too forced and happy for the rest of the show and the original ending makes more sense even if it isn't as crowd-pleasing.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 03:54

Monaghan: Dec 29, 2006

Manatee Cannon posted:

they may not have all died, but tekkadan still never accomplished anything

Tekkadan and Mcgillis are directly responsible for destroying half of the seven stars, which pretty much led to the reforms.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 03:55

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# ? May 10, 2024 18:30

Tae: Oct 24, 2010; Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!

So this solidifies to never hire Okada again for any project

# ? Apr 10, 2017 03:58

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