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lifg posted:It shouldn't be too hard to keep track of. Make a little box on each players sheet that says "# of food" and make sure players remove one tick per day if they fail a daily survival check to forage. Don't they basically get an army worth of killbuddies later? How do you manage all that? I'd rather not just hand wave it but I'm not sure how to manage like 20-30 npcs potentially.
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Apr 4, 2017 21:13
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Harvey Mantaco posted:Don't they basically get an army worth of killbuddies later? How do you manage all that? I'd rather not just hand wave it but I'm not sure how to manage like 20-30 npcs potentially. They get a small group of ex-prisoners at the very beginning. I say let each player be responsible for one NPC. But talk about it with your players when it happens, and see what they want to do.
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Apr 4, 2017 21:20
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blastron posted:Wealth past a certain point in 5e is functionally worthless. In 3e when you could buy magic items your wealth by level was actually super important since it directly affected your combat effectiveness, but right now my Adventurer's League wizard has fifty thousand kicking around, even after scribing literally every spell from every spell book of every NPC and PC they've ever met. What the hell am I going to spend this on? Open a homeless shelter and soup kitchen. Staff it with your skeleton horde. Also pallets of pamphlets about the glorious
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Apr 4, 2017 21:25
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Tangentially, if my players wanted to procure an airship of modest means, what would be a reasonable price range to throw their way?
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Apr 4, 2017 21:49
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Bad Seafood posted:Tangentially, if my players wanted to procure an airship of modest means, what would be a reasonable price range to throw their way? about four times whatever they have on hand. however, there's someone who might be convinced to part with one for about 3/4 of what they have on hand, there's just this small matter to attend to...
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Apr 4, 2017 21:51
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Is that really a 5e/3e difference? The book has prices for stuff. I haven't decided how I'm handling that at all in my campaign - SKT hands out a boatload of money in the later sections. I found some forum thread trying to sanely price stuff but the numbers still seemed too low, ugg. You could always try to represent the animals as a swarm or zone of similar power and scope to same-level spells, would be my advice. Because turning one action into like eight actions is always going to break the game even if the things you summon are total weenies - when you get a 1-in-20 chance to hit at the worst, poo poo gets stupid fast. Even worse with animals who have native advantage. It's one of the reasons the whole skeleton economy thing has been a constant refrain since the game was released.
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Apr 4, 2017 21:58
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Bad Seafood posted:Tangentially, if my players wanted to procure an airship of modest means, what would be a reasonable price range to throw their way? One adventure's worth.
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Apr 4, 2017 21:59
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Bad Seafood posted:Tangentially, if my players wanted to procure an airship of modest means, what would be a reasonable price range to throw their way? I had mine steal one from the evil army to prevent an invasion. They've been using it since then to roam around the world stirring poo poo up and leaving before any consequences develop, so that'll be fun when the chickens come home to roost.
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Apr 4, 2017 22:01
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Honestly the best use of money is to casually drain the coffers by providing players with the ability to spend money to either bypass obstacles or reinforce RP opportunities. Money as alterantive character development resource sounds good on paper but led us to 3e/Pathfinder and that way lies madness.
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Apr 4, 2017 22:03
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SettingSun posted:I never liked tracking money since I think it becomes inconsequential after just a short time. I remember reading a houserule (here maybe?) that abstracted money into pretty much a stat. Perhaps you found "a poo poo ton of money" in a cave. That's less than "a king's ransom". Both could be used to make purchases without consequence up to a certain price threshold. Say, you could spend 2 King's Ransom to buy a castle or some other extravagant purchase. If you find a treasure and want to liquidate it for cash it works the same way. Rating equal to your current wealth (or a whole stack of one step lowers) and your wealth goes up one. Rating lower than your current wealth, not a huge impact, no increase (but give it to a poorer party member, it could change their life!). If the rating higher than yours you immediately jump to that level. Assuming you find someone willing to pay full price, that is. * You can instead have two characters of equivalent wealth pool their wealth, increasing their wealth by one, then buying something of their new, combined wealth level and dropping it down one, then re-splitting their wealth, resulting in everyone ending up one step poorer. From a mechanical standpoint you could do the same so that two characters of rank 3 pool to rank 4 and then get a rank 3 cost item for free before re-splitting, but if you do your GM is entitled to knock one of your wealths down anyway due to the insane fees and loss of business trust that liquidating your entire personal wealth into fungible assets to hand to some random weirdo would inevitably cause. Splicer fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Apr 4, 2017 |
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Apr 4, 2017 22:04
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Cease to Hope posted:about four times whatever they have on hand. however, there's someone who might be convinced to part with one for about 3/4 of what they have on hand, there's just this small matter to attend to... There's nearly always someone who could provide the big ticket item/s the PCs need for their plan, as long as the PCs can do something for them! If you're doing a "roam around doing whatever" kind of game, then around half the adventures will probably write themselves like this. If you need to drain wealth, this is also where you do it. Depending on character level and what your game's like, the "item" could be an airship, passage on a regular ship, a castle, supplies to feed a ship's crew, a flying castle, a big cart and an ox team to pull it, a small riverboat, literally a king's ransom, or whatever else is out of their reach, but the price is always "most of your money and go on an adventure". Harvey Mantaco posted:I kind of want to do my out of the abyss game a bit more survival based. I like the idea of foraging food/water and all that, but the OOTA guide seems like some major accounting headache. Is there a middle ground way anyone has managed this (in any campaign, really) that is a bit more fun and intuitive when dealing with like 6 players and however many npcs they'll have in their misfit army? Players like the idea but are fairly new to the game and aren't sure either. Track it on its own sheet for the whole party, rather than for each individual. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Apr 4, 2017 |
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Apr 4, 2017 22:27
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Wealth levels are okay but I always find them unsatisfying in D&D - I mean equipment lists are an amusing part of the early game, why the hell not just extend equipment lists upwards and have stuff there for you to spend all that gold on? The 'tell the GM what you want then come up with a cost' is a little unsatisfying too to me - I kind of want to do it backwards, find the money and then realise i can now afford something cool. BECMI did a reasonable job by putting castles right there in core as something for you to aspire to, and then dominions. I really liked these charts in spellbound kingdoms - the gear chapter starts with the usual weapons and armor and kit, but then scales right up:   
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Apr 4, 2017 22:38
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The thing about wealth levels for me is they make getting richer feel very mother may I and if you buy your goods in the wrong order youre broke but if you buy another way youre only down one wealth level.
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Apr 4, 2017 23:10
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xiw posted:Wealth levels are okay but I always find them unsatisfying in D&D - I mean equipment lists are an amusing part of the early game, why the hell not just extend equipment lists upwards and have stuff there for you to spend all that gold on? "Doomsday Device. Bring doomsday to one target." I'll take one, please.
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Apr 4, 2017 23:16
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SettingSun posted:I never liked tracking money since I think it becomes inconsequential after just a short time. I remember reading a houserule (here maybe?) that abstracted money into pretty much a stat. Perhaps you found "a poo poo ton of money" in a cave. That's less than "a king's ransom". Both could be used to make purchases without consequence up to a certain price threshold. Say, you could spend 2 King's Ransom to buy a castle or some other extravagant purchase. The system Reign has Treasure and Wealth levels like that. If I weren't on my phone I'd quote some pieces. Basically if you have Wealth 5, you can spend as many Wealth 4 amounts as you want without keeping track. You need a Wealth 6 haul to raise your Wealth level, though. (Obviously, the "values" of Wealth represent super-linear growth in resources.) E: rather beaten Subjunctive fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Apr 4, 2017 |
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Apr 4, 2017 23:38
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SettingSun posted:"Doomsday Device. Bring doomsday to one target." I'll take one, please. One? Why not two for twice the price! 
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Apr 5, 2017 00:40
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Harvey Mantaco posted:Don't they basically get an army worth of killbuddies later? How do you manage all that? I'd rather not just hand wave it but I'm not sure how to manage like 20-30 npcs potentially. I'd suggest focusing on the survival aspect prior to their acquisition of the army. I don't have the book here but there's a system for setting up forward outposts in the underdark once they're rolling deep in NPCs. I'd focus more on logistics issues and crazy encounters in the second half of the book versus worrying about food and water still. Our DM gave us the stat blocks for the "army" faction NPCs and had us dictate what they did, set up patrols, and track their poo poo. It worked out fine.
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Apr 5, 2017 04:51
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If you don't want to use wealth levels, as in d20 Modern or True20, what I would recommend would be to keep an eye on how much actual gold your players have, find out what they would like to have, and price it at a significant percentage of that level of wealth. Or even price it at a level above whatever it is they have now, to serve as an incentive for them to go out and earn more coin. Ideally, the questions of "what would be a nice item to have", and "how much should it be priced so that it actually makes a dent against the player's stored wealth" is handled by the rules, at least roughly if not neatly, but since it's not and since it doesn't, you have to wing it. Another idea would be consumables: sell the Fighter a token that lets them declare a crit whenever. Sell the Rogue a token that lets them succeed on any Dex-based skill check. Sell the Bard a token that gives them back an Inspiration Die. And price these tokens at something like 10% of their current amount of gold stored. If they start to balk at the costs rising whenever they come back from a new adventure, pull out some mumbo-jumbo about supply and demand. Maybe Murray Rothbard is terrorizing the village or whatever. If their wealth level starts REALLY getting ridiculous, let them spend it to skip entire adventures or parts of adventures. There's more than one threat to the world, right? Instead of having to pick between slaying the dragon and unmaking the lich, let them pay for a couple hundred archers to shoot the dragon out of the sky so that the party can go off and destroy the lich without having to incur the Dungeon World-esque "campaign loss" of the dragon's Front gaining power in the meantime. Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Is that really a 5e/3e difference? The book has prices for stuff. I haven't decided how I'm handling that at all in my campaign - SKT hands out a boatload of money in the later sections. I found some forum thread trying to sanely price stuff but the numbers still seemed too low, ugg. In 3e, you needed a certain level of attack bonus, a certain level of AC, and a certain amount of stat increases in order to keep pace with the monsters as-written in the Monster Manual. The magic weapons, the magic armor, and the Belts of Strength or whatever were all specifically priced to interact with and correspond to the amount of gold you were expected to get from any given encounter (or at the end of any given dungeon). You were supposed to have this much gold at this specific level, and it would let you buy this number of upgrades to your gear, and those upgrades would let you remain competitive with your opposition. It was all very reminiscent of needing a certain "item level" of equipment before you go to the next "tier of raiding" in an MMO.
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Apr 5, 2017 07:01
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MonsterEnvy posted:Drizzt himself is not a bad character. But the number of rip offs that have no idea what he is like have soured a lot of people on him. I like Drizzt and think he's fine by pulp fantasy standards but he's already a bad facsimile of Elric that doesn't all the way get it.
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Apr 5, 2017 07:59
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SettingSun posted:I never liked tracking money since I think it becomes inconsequential after just a short time. I remember reading a houserule (here maybe?) that abstracted money into pretty much a stat. Perhaps you found "a poo poo ton of money" in a cave. That's less than "a king's ransom". Both could be used to make purchases without consequence up to a certain price threshold. Say, you could spend 2 King's Ransom to buy a castle or some other extravagant purchase. if I'm thinking of the same thing, then IIRC it was a "temporary" background, for 13th Age.
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Apr 5, 2017 08:24
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A discussion in the 5e group yesterday got me to check some stuff, and even in my 2am state then, I'm pretty sure that a level 1 caster with a Broom of Flying and the Sacred Flame cantrip could solo the Tarrasque. -Tarrasque has nothing to hit the caster with, if they're up in the air, except its Frightful Presence, which doesn't affect much (no damage, just frighten, which works for our purposes). -Sacred Flame is a saving throw spell (so it doesn't get reflected) -DEX is the Tarrasque's worst save (still has advantage, and 3 auto-successes per day, but they don't matter much) -Even with advantage, there's a (if I'm reading AnyDice right) 36% chance for the save to fail (save is 8, plus the proficiency bonus of 2, plus the caster's modifier, which is 3. Total of 13). Between rounding and the average damage on a 1d8 (4,5), that gives us an average damage of 1,5 per round It is going to take a long while: 242 rounds at least (minimum HP on the Tarrasque is 363, if it rolled 1 for all of its 33d20), all the way up to 660 rounds, for the maximum of 990 HP. Still, it averages out to around 450 rounds. The biggest issue I can see, besides space (caster needs to be some ways up in the air, and the range on Sacred Flame is 60 feet), is Initiative, with the Tarrasque probably creaming the caster if it goes first. (Does this count as a Murphy if it's just from the core books?) VV: It's got an Intelligence of 3, and I've been going by the book as far as attacks etc go Serperoth fucked around with this message at 10:34 on Apr 5, 2017 |
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Apr 5, 2017 09:48
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I'm really not sure how smart the Tarrasque is supposed to be, but if it works out a pretty good counter to that would be "throw really big rocks."
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Apr 5, 2017 10:24
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Sparda219 posted:I'm really not sure how smart the Tarrasque is supposed to be, but if it works out a pretty good counter to that would be "throw really big rocks." The tarrasque can also move really quickly, and presumably can find a roof. If you fail the save and are frightened, fear also makes sure you can't move any closer to the target for the duration. So if you were 60ft away, get freaked out, and then the tarrasque moves another 100 feet away... you still can't move any closer than 160ft.
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Apr 5, 2017 10:51
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Would I find a half-orc stone sorcerer worth running? I dig the idea of focusing on Strength and Con and spells that don't need big CHA modifiers like the SCAG attack cantrips, sleep, haste, shield etc. I feel like an upcoming group might want a tanky guy that can double as a second party face and I'm not super into paladins. I just don't know if the type has some sort of garbage scaling or otherwise unforeseen problem Nehru the Damaja fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Apr 5, 2017 |
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Apr 5, 2017 13:39
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Sparda219 posted:I'm really not sure how smart the Tarrasque is supposed to be, but if it works out a pretty good counter to that would be "throw really big rocks." Rock throwing out straight up jumping might make sense
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Apr 5, 2017 15:03
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Serperoth posted:The biggest issue I can see, besides space (caster needs to be some ways up in the air, and the range on Sacred Flame is 60 feet), is Initiative, with the Tarrasque probably creaming the caster if it goes first. It's 50' tall and (assuming the jumping rules for PCs are applied as-is to gargantuan monsters that are longer than they are tall) has a 13' vertical leap. Readying an action for when the caster moves into casting range should suffice. e: VVV Durr, yeah. I guess ignore the caster and go find suitable terrain to allow it to close the distance. Or go eat the nearest town. Hello Sailor fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Apr 5, 2017 |
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Apr 5, 2017 15:40
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Hello Sailor posted:It's 50' tall and (assuming the jumping rules for PCs are applied as-is to gargantuan monsters that are longer than they are tall) has a 13' vertical leap. Readying an action for when the caster moves into casting range should suffice. The caster still can be 60 feet above its top, or thereabouts, right? My DM also brought it up when we talked about that, and we figured it's 60 feet from the target in general, not it's centre? But I could be wrong, I don't think I've looked at the actual targetting rules for 5e
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Apr 5, 2017 15:44
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Okay so eldritch blast then.
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Apr 5, 2017 15:44
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Okay so eldritch blast then. No, the whole point is that you can't use regular targeting spells because the Reflective Carapace ability makes them all bounce off. Only spells that cause saving throws will work.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:22
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bewilderment posted:No, the whole point is that you can't use regular targeting spells because the Reflective Carapace ability makes them all bounce off. Only spells that cause saving throws will work.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:26
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Can't the Tarrasque, at a minimum, force a stalemate by just running away? Movement 40', Dash 40', Legendary Action 20' more is 100' total. A Broom of Flying has a speed of 50', assuming it can Dash you get to 100' but there is no action to be taken. Acid Splash also works, but has a lower damage output.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:38
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What we have here is one of those "it works in theory, if we assume we're fighting on a featureless plain, and are only allowed to use what's written on the character sheet and monster stat page and NOTHING ELSE." But of course, no DM's actually going to let that occur in play. The Tarrasque would improvise weapon and hit you with a thrown house and it'd be over in a round or two. It's sort of like this, from Order of the Stick.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:47
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jng2058 posted:What we have here is one of those "it works in theory, if we assume we're fighting on a featureless plain, and are only allowed to use what's written on the character sheet and monster stat page and NOTHING ELSE." But of course, no DM's actually going to let that occur in play. The Tarrasque would improvise weapon and hit you with a thrown house and it'd be over in a round or two. The Tarrasque is far weaker than most people think, in terms of physical strength. With its size and Strength in 5e, it can't even lift most adult African elephants off the ground, much less throw a house as a ranged weapon. To push one of the larger Stonehenge blocks around, you'd need the combined might of four Tarrasques. Also, improvised ranged weapons have a range of 20/60 feet. That's competitive with most cantrips but still hardly something that outmatches the options spellcasters have. It's a lovely thought, the idea that the Tarrasque is so powerful that it can throw boulders and houses at flying enemies. But in reality that's just a houserule that massively inflates its true power.
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Apr 5, 2017 17:06
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I'm surprised they got rid of its regeneration ability and its come-back-from-the-dead gimmick. That was really the unique feature of the Tarrasque compared to other similar-tier monsters.
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Apr 5, 2017 17:50
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From the 5e FB group files:quote:Hello Hivemind! Help! Barbarian is Barbarian! How nerf? 
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Apr 5, 2017 17:54
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Deified Data posted:From the 5e FB group files: How the gently caress does a level 8 party have 30 hit points?
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Apr 5, 2017 17:57
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Deified Data posted:From the 5e FB group files: I got a barbarian in my group, his rear end is going to fight a hill giant.
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Apr 5, 2017 17:58
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Nehru the Damaja posted:Would I find a half-orc stone sorcerer worth running? I dig the idea of focusing on Strength and Con and spells that don't need big CHA modifiers like the SCAG attack cantrips, sleep, haste, shield etc. I feel like an upcoming group might want a tanky guy that can double as a second party face and I'm not super into paladins. It works. Deals out damage between twinned BB and quickened BB/GFB that scales well as you level, decent AC with a shield and CON secondary stat. STR > CON > CHA. Spell choice will make you essentially an utility sorcerer.
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Apr 5, 2017 18:08
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More: Q: What is the most unbalanced thing in D&D? A: quote:Barbarian rage resistances. They get resistance to magic weapons. Not even Devils and other major monsters get that. I'm confused how just getting mad nullifies magical damage when actual magic and dark origins do not. 
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Apr 5, 2017 18:36
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Serperoth posted:How the gently caress does a level 8 party have 30 hit points? Rolling extremely poorly for HP and having negative or +0 constitution modifiers? I hosted a game of dnd 5e raw and players were stunned you had the option to roll for HP.
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Apr 5, 2017 19:09
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