|
I haven't even thought about where (and if) we should use the Erieye. Would that even have the range to be useful for the southern strike? I don't think they have in-flight refuelling so they're not going to be able to even loiter around there. Sod it, we're leaving it at home, our home field is going to be struggling to support all of this activity. I propose that the northern strike is the remaining two Gripens with LGBs and a pair of IRIS-Ts and all the Sk60s we can get up armed with rockets. Maybe we fit one of the Grips with a reconnaissance pod too. The Gripens find and engage AAA with their bombs, leaving the Sk60s with the mop-up job.
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 19:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 16:00 |
|
|
Ask Jack to BUY SUBMARINE. This a gap we can't allow to stand.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 19:03
|
|
|
We probably can't even support 4 Gripens on piracy duty down south: It's 850nm from the indian border to the target area, so even with light loadouts (another reason to use the paveways instead of heavier ASMs) we'll need to do underway refuelling, and therefore be limited in the number of planes we can send. I'd only send two Gripens, with 2x IRIS(base) and 2x LGBs (paveways) each. Should be more than enough for international waters.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 19:09
|
|
|
Yeah, I think afterburner is a better use of fuel than escort fighters, and what are the odds of Myanmar making the intercept against empty fighters leaving at supersonic speeds? We need to know the fuel situation.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 19:12
|
|
|
One thing I would like to point out about UAVs: the point of a UAV is so a rich country can risk money instead of lives. We, being a small PMC of dubious morality, have a limited bankroll and too many pilots as is. Losing aircraft, even relatively cheap ones, is a big deal. Much bigger than logging some extra flight hours and using some extra munitions. UAVs are by design not as survivable as our fast mover aircraft. In short, buy Phantoms and use Gripens to dominate the skies. I don't think UAVs are the right fit for us as we must minimize airframe losses to maximize profit. Also, we are more likely to get laid flying jets than a drones. Specifically, vote Option B. pthighs fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Apr 5, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 19:14
|
|
|
Until the Burmese get annoyed with us for attacking civilian shipping off our coast. They're going to try to get us on the way out and we're going to have to deal with that. The KC-135 should be enough to get a four-ship flight back over India anyways, and from then on the Indians will be able to get us home. Yooper, would it be possible to hire an outfit like Omega Air in the future should we need to do larger operations of this sort?
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 19:15
|
|
|
Quinntan posted:Until the Burmese get annoyed with us for attacking civilian shipping off our coast. They're going to try to get us on the way out and we're going to have to deal with that. Maybe? We'll burn that bridge when we get to it. For now remember that the Indian Air Force will refuel us to the Indian ocean. The S 100 B does not have probe refueling. https://wiki.baloogancampaign.com/index.php/DataAircraft?ID=563
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 19:31
|
|
|
This phantom fetish will be our ruin. Phantom-Frog You'll all regret this phantom craze when some of them fail to take off and the rest fail to turn. And then again when we run out of money.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 19:41
|
|
|
Option: use the Gripens' radars for their own spotting in the Bay, have the Saab providing air spotting of Myanmar from the north. Then again the position of the destination port may preclude that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 19:49
|
|
|
I'm inclined to send the Saab north to Tibet: Given our Sk60's have no inbuilt radar, they will need coordination and target-spotting help, and we knew the airspace is permissive enough for them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 19:51
|
|
|
I vote Phantom Frog. The only real limitation would be armament acquirement, and I don't think that'll necessarily end up being a huge deal yet. Plus it keeps our liquidity up, which I believe will be important soon enough.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 20:05
|
|
|
Plan Hexaphantom. Buy six F-4s. You don't have to spend it all at once. Other things will come along. Frogfoots are lovely but the Hired Goons blew that bridge when they rejected MiGs at the start. I don't know what kind of monster doesn't have their heart warmed by the beauty of a Fishbed, but you've made your fishless bed and have to lie in it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 20:08
|
|
|
E: Changed to Option B Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Apr 5, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 20:10
|
|
|
 We're going to have to use nearly every aircraft we've got on this mission. Yooper posted:The primary mission, and the one we'll be paid for is to support the Indian Volunteers as they engage both Tibet-Chinese forces and the TLA. We will receive positional data on the front line units from the Volunteers on the ground. However there are likely more units behind them in the mountain passes. The Chinese Air Force is on stand down right now. There will be no Chinese Air Force over the Tibet operation zone. AAA is likely. MANPADS will be limited. This strike should takeoff second. Primary Mission Plan: "Maximum Profits" The Gripens launch 30 minutes apart fly in two to ship groups at higher altitude (appx. 10,000-15,000 feet AGL) and drop bombs on precision targets. If the Chinese decide to violate the NFZ again, they'll go after the fighters while the Saabs head for safety at low-level and max speed. Have least one flight airborne over the attacking Saabs at all times to provide air-to-air support for the Saabs The Saab 105s fly low in three groups of two aircraft. Launch them in the 30-minute intervals. They engage targets of opportunity or any targets that the Indians ID for us. As soon as a flight goes bingo or Winchester, have them RTB to re-arm, refuel and then get back into the fight. I want a Hindi, Sikh, etc. speaking liaison officer in the right seat of at least one aircraft to communicate with the Indian Volunteer ground forces. Make sure that we have all the radio frequencies of the Indian Volunteers. Make sure the Indian Volunteers are displaying air-ground marker panels so that we can recognize them. "Slugger" Aircraft and Loadout (in two flights launched 30 minutes apart) Four JAS 39 Gripen strike fighters, each with: -IRIS-T short-range air-to-air missiles -GBU-12D/B laser-guide bombs -Litening III targeting pod Mission Primary: Destroy enemy air defenses Scondary: Bomb ground targets Tertiary: Engage air targets to protect the SAABs "Rocketeer" Aircraft and Loadout (in three flights launched 30 minutes apart) Six SK 60 Saab 105 Gripen attack aircraft, each with: -M 70 135mm Rockets* *they'll use up their allocated rockets, then the rockets originally allocated for the Gripens. If they use those and still have targets, have them use their gunpods. Mission Primary: Bomb ground targets Yooper posted:Secondary Mission I have two plans. Plan A is the fastest, but will cause a bigger international incident. Plan B is slower and will cause a smaller international incident. This strike should take off first. My personal vote is for PLAN B: ROUND THE WORLD UPDATED Secondary Mission Plan B: "Round the World"  *please note the new target location -- this map features the wrong harbor site. 1. Saab 100 AEW&C takes off early before the mission and lands in Calcutta. 2. Strike package (High CAP Gripen, Ahab anti-shipping Gripens, Big Pig tanker) take off from home base. 3. Strike package and head around the western edge of Bangladesh, flying in formation with Indian tankers to keep our planes topped up while over India. 4. Saab 100 AEW&C takes off and joins up with the strike package. 5. Strike package proceeds over the Bay of Bengal. If possible, Indian tankers continue fueling us over the Bay of Bengal. If not, our tanker takes over to refuel the strike group while over water. 6. Use the Saab 100 to locate the freighters and any escorts. If we can positively ID them from long-range (i.e. look for the frigate's radar, use that ship-finder website, etc.), then send in the anti-ship missiles. If we can't ID them from long-range, have the High CAP flight visually ID them with the Litening pod, then pull out of the Chinese's weapons range. 7. Send in Ahab anti-shipping flight. Fire a total of two missiles at any escort and one missile per freighter. 8. If the enemy ships are not sunk or heavily on fire. Have the High CAP drop one Paveway total per target. 9. All aircraft RTB. Use our tanker and the Indian tankers to refuel as needed. If possible, rendezvous with the Indian tankers over the Bay of Bengal Have the Saab refuel at the Andamans or Calcutta if needed. 10. BONUS: If time allows, have the returned Gripens get new aircrews, load up with the max GBU-12 Paveway loadout and join the "Maximum Profit" close air support mission. ROE: Fire if the Burmese or Chinese take any hostile action (lock us up with radars, fire missiles or guns, order us to stop our mission). Once the Chinese ships are sighted and positively ID'ed, all aircraft are cleared to engage them as needed. If we have to abort due to fuel or damage, we'll abort to the Andaman Islands, then ferry the planes home, using Indian tanker support. "High CAP" Aircraft and Loadout Two JAS 39 Gripen strike fighters, each with the long-range loadout of: GBU-12 Paveway laser-guided bomds IRIS-T missiles 300-gal drop tanks Litening targeting pod Mission Primary: Protect the tanker and anti-shipping aircraft. Secondary: ID the ships with the Litening pod. Tertiary: finish off any Chinese ships not immediately sunk by the missiles or not heavily on fire. "Ahab" Aircraft and Loadout Two JAS 39 Gripen strike fighters, each with: IRIS-T short-range air-to-air missiles Meteor medium-range air-to-air missiles (?) RB 15 anti-shipping missiles 300-gal drop tanks (?) Mission Primary: Sink the freighters Secondary: Protect the tanker and engage air targets threatening the flight. "Big Pig" Aircraft KC-135 Tanker Mission Primary: Keep the strike package refueled. "Eyeball" Aircraft One Saab S100B AEW&C Mission Primary: Locate air targets and vector High CAP onto targets. Secondary: Identify the shipping targets. OR Secondary Mission Plan A: "Direct Route"  This one is a little complicated. Because of the long range, we need to do a tanker drag and keep the tanker close to the fighters for most of the mission. The Saab AEW&C will orbit north of Myanmar and give us info about the Myanamar air force's reaction to our airspace violation. They get as close to the border as possible to give us the max radar coverage possible. The strike package (two high CAP fighters, two anti-shipping fighters, the tanker) will head south and cross Myanamar airspace as fast as possible. The tanker will squawk a civilian transponder code and will ID itself as a civilian airliner. The fighters will try to stay close and hide in its radar shadow for as long as possible, they will not have their radars on. If the Burmese intercept us, send the CAP fighters to intercept them. Try to get on their six. If they make any hostile gestures (locking us up with radar, etc.) then shoot them down. The fighters will head south and try to locate the freighters. The High CAP birds will stay up at around 20,000-30,000 feet with their radars on. If any Myanamar fighters try to intercept the anti-shipping fighters, then they will intercept. If the Burmese show any hostile gestures, shoo them down. The anti-shipping fighters will use radar to locate likely ship targets. They'll drop low, visually ID the targets, then pull back, fire off their missiles and head for home. Once the targets have been sunk, then we'll head for Kolkata and land there. If that's not feasible, then we'll take the long way home and loop around the western edge of Bangladesh to RTB. If we have to abort due to fuel or damage, we'll abort to: Veer Savarkar International Airport in the Andaman Islands "High CAP" Aircraft and Loadout Two JAS 39 Gripen strike fighters, each with: RB 107 Meteor missiles IRIS-T missiles 300-gal drop tanks Mission Primary: Protect the tanker and anti-shipping aircraft "Ahab" Aircraft and Loadout Two JAS 39 Gripen strike fighters, each with: IRIS-T short-range air-to-air missiles RB 15 anti-shipping missiles 300-gal drop tanks Mission Primary: Sink the freighters Secondary: Protect the tanker and engage air targets threatening the flight. "Big Pig" Aircraft KC-135 Tanker Mission Primary: Keep the strike package refueled. "Eyeball" Aircraft One Saab S100B AEW&C Mission Primary: Locate air targets and vector High CAP onto targets. Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 12:58 on Apr 6, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 20:11
|
|
|
If we're potentially going to piss off the Burmese when we blow up those boats (and end up having to dodge aircraft all the way home), should we just plan to fly over their land on the way back. It's the one place they won't be expecting us to go! I have a question for Yooper about how this is working mechanically. Do our particular actions have some chance of instigating a response depending on how and when we take them (such that you don't know ahead of time what the Burmese response will be), or do the scenarios have to be more closely scripted (such that event X will trigger reaction Y, but the specific events are hidden from us).
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 20:15
|
|
|
Due to construction issues at Daiwei the freighters have been re-routed to Sittwe. This significantly reduces the distance we need to fly.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 20:15
|
|
|
I think we should have the AWACS with the ground strike package to help identify targets for the fast-movers to take out (SAMs, radars, etc), which should leave our SK-60s free reign to go wild.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 20:21
|
|
|
Stago Lego posted:I choose Phantom Frog. It even sounds like a Metal Gear codename. I would like to suggest to add a RF-4E to this for recon. We have two recon pods for the Gripens already. No need for the RF-4E. Quinntan posted:The problem I have with the Su-25s is that a lot of their stuff requires the aircraft to keep flying towards a target to keep it tracked. This makes them a lot more likely to get shot up by enemy short-range air defences such as Iglas and even AAA. This isn't such a huge deal if our target is stationery, such as the bridge and arms dump we were dealing with last time, but if we should have to take on a moving target, this is a major disadvantage. At least the Mavericks on the Phantom and Gripen are fire-and-forget. Couldn't agree more. The Frogfoots have to get low and slow to engage ground targets. They have to get into the dirt where enemy MANPADS, AAA, and SAMs can eat them alive. If you want light, cheap strike, we should go ahead and do Option B and buy the Phantoms and Golden Eagles. They both have standoff fire and forget capability. Phantoms can fire the Mjolnir missile and Maverick missiles. The Golden Eagles have JDAMs and Mavericks. Both also have long-range air-to-air capability. The Phantoms have four AMRAAMs, which are almost as good as our Meteors. And the Golden Eagle can easily be retrofitted for carry them. Bottom line, the Frogfoot is slow, vulnerable, and a one-trick pony. They got shot up pretty bad in Afghanistan in the 1980s. And the muj only had basic AA weapons. Imagine what's going to happen in 2019? The Phantoms and Golden Eagles are multi-role fighters that bring a lot to the table. They'll hit harder and they'll stay alive longer. chitoryu12 posted:Gonna vote for Option B. I don't want us splitting supply lines between Warsaw Pact and NATO when we've got such a big stockpile of NATO gear already. Seriously. This. Buying Frogfoots creates massive logistical hassles for us and is going to cost us a shitload of extra money. With the Phantoms and Golden Eagles we can at least cross-use some of our sutff.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 20:26
|
|
|
Kangra posted:I have a question for Yooper about how this is working mechanically. Do our particular actions have some chance of instigating a response depending on how and when we take them (such that you don't know ahead of time what the Burmese response will be), or do the scenarios have to be more closely scripted (such that event X will trigger reaction Y, but the specific events are hidden from us). Some actions are scripted into the scenario. If you pass certain points or do certain things either a LUA script fires or the Event Editor turns on, or off, a mission, or sets a status. Some stuff is pseudo random so even I don't know exactly how a scenario will run. I'll make three missions, each more aggressive than the last, and only one of the three would execute. Or they won't execute at all if you guys don't hit certain tripwires. Other actions, like how well we do against a ground opponent, are more free form. CMANO doesn't simulate ground combat between tanks or mortars so I have to wild-rear end-guess it. If you really go off the reservation and decide to sink every boat near Chittagong or bomb an orphanage or something then I'd adjust the political situation.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 20:26
|
|
|
I'm not keen on using RBS-15s against the bulk carriers. They're not likely to cause significant damage against a full-blown container ship, so if the weather's clear enough for us to lase from high altitude, we're probably better off dropping Paveways on 'em from high altitude. If the freighters are escorted, though, they'll be invaluable, so we probably want to haul some along just in case. Does our AEW&C's surface-search range let us hunt for shipping without having our Gripens emit?
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 20:28
|
|
|
I didn't think I'd get to see flight time so soon as our tanker. You guys better keep me safe-ish. Crispy bacon may be delicious, but all that fuel exploding might slightly over cook even a Big Pig. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 20:30
|
|
|
Mr. Showtime posted:I'm not keen on using RBS-15s against the bulk carriers. They're not likely to cause significant damage against a full-blown container ship, so if the weather's clear enough for us to lase from high altitude, we're probably better off dropping Paveways on 'em from high altitude. If the freighters are escorted, though, they'll be invaluable, so we probably want to haul some along just in case. Our GBU-12 Paveways may weigh 500 pounds, but they only have 192 pounds of explosives. The Rb 15s have a 441 pound warhead. The RBs will gently caress up a ship. That's what they are designed to do. Modern warships aren't armored, so the warhead is optimized for unarmored targets. It will will gently caress up a freighter or a destroy pretty much equally.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 20:35
|
|
|
With either RBS-15s or Paveways we are going to leave it at the very least engulfed in fire and with a cargo of highly reactive ordinance on board. If our weapons don't immediately take it out, the fire we're going to cause will.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 20:42
|
|
|
Alright I've been convinced to go for Option B instead (old post edited). Still think we should use Paveways instead of ASM's. Yes, the RB-15 will gently caress up a container ship but so will the bombs and at a fraction of the cost. If we're gonna drop most of our cash on airframes we need to save as much money as we can elsewhere. Why use the super-expensive missiles when the cheapo bombs will do just fine? Oh and we should specify that the ground crews should be ready to get the CAS planes turned around and up again real fast until the sun goes down/the pilots collapse from exhaustion. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Apr 5, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 21:00
|
|
|
We really don't want to gently caress up or we'll pay every time the enemy has real AA.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 21:06
|
|
|
Yeah guys the Frogfoots are slow, meaning they can't get out of trouble, and they aren't tough enough to make up for it. A "tough" aircraft is still an aircraft, not a tank. And the logistics are going to be a nightmare. The Golden Eagle is a slow, expensive, aggressively uninspiring aircraft. It's a gussied up version of babby's first jet. The Phantoms are not amazing, but unlike the other choices they are at least fast, and we can afford enough of them to guarantee that despite their unreliability we will be able to put up a three or four ship of them when we decide we need one.
aphid_licker fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Apr 5, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 21:13
|
|
|
My preferences are: Hexaphantom Phantoms Galore B In that order. The Golden Eagle's only real virtue is that it has JDAM support and if we run them a lot we might eventually come out ahead maybe on maintenance cost. The Phantoms are fast and carry a ton in addition to carrying a pretty solid lineup.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 21:27
|
|
|
I don't think arms procurement is going to be a big of an issue as it seems. We can also stockpile munitions when the opportunity arises, completely blocking all non-NATO aircraft is gonna be a pain down the line when we are limited in what we can buy. Frogfoots provide a wealth of CAS options and for missions that pay out based on targets destroyed they could easily pay for themselves in no time. We could buy (3-4) F4-E's instead of only 2 in the Phantom-Frog package and that way we have some guaranteed SEAD aircraft to clear an AO before sending in the Frogfoots to loiter and destroy. Munitions for the Frogfoots should be pretty cheap as well when we have the opportunity to buy it. I'm against blowing almost all our cash on a stockpile of 50 year old Phantoms who are mediocre at a few different roles vs picking up dedicated CAS platforms. It leaves us money to pick up some F16's if we come across them in the near future or perhaps a SAM unit to protect our assets.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 21:51
|
|
|
Guys, we voted on the appearance we wanted to have, and that was high performance, high budget. Do Frogfoots, old russian piles of junk, scream high budget? Phantoms are American, speedy and powerful strike planes. I vote full phantom.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 22:37
|
|
|
My votes are for Phantoms Galore and Attack Plan B.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 22:37
|
|
|
HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Guys, we voted on the appearance we wanted to have, and that was high performance, high budget. Do Frogfoots, old russian piles of junk, scream high budget? Phantoms are American, speedy and powerful strike planes. I vote full phantom. Counterpoint we are Hired Goons the  is our logo.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 22:40
|
|
|
Bacarruda posted:
Hey, know who speaks Hindi and Sikh and Bengali? Guns Guns Guns speaks Hindi and Sikh and Bengali. Looks like he'd better suit up! And no, this Anyway I like Bac Plan A
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 22:41
|
|
|
HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Guys, we voted on the appearance we wanted to have, and that was high performance, high budget. Do Frogfoots, old russian piles of junk, scream high budget? Phantoms are American, speedy and powerful strike planes. I vote full phantom. Phantoms are also old junk. If we were going to roll high flash high cost, we would have gone American from the start. We're not a steak house, we're a Ruby Tuesday. We have some steak, sure. But you can get a burger, or some spicy shrimp, or whatever. We get the job done, and you get a good meal for more than fast food prices but less than a porterhouse. But you get a bit of everything, rather than exceptional quality at one thing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 22:41
|
|
|
They're about as old junk as a Cadillac. Classic Americana will always impress clients.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 22:44
|
|
|
HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:They're about as old junk as a Cadillac. Classic Americana will always impress clients. If your Cadillac doesn't start 1 time in 5, it's still a piece of junk.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 22:46
|
|
|
Popete posted:I don't think arms procurement is going to be a big of an issue as it seems. We can also stockpile munitions when the opportunity arises, completely blocking all non-NATO aircraft is gonna be a pain down the line when we are limited in what we can buy. Frogfoots provide a wealth of CAS options and for missions that pay out based on targets destroyed they could easily pay for themselves in no time. We could buy (3-4) F4-E's instead of only 2 in the Phantom-Frog package and that way we have some guaranteed SEAD aircraft to clear an AO before sending in the Frogfoots to loiter and destroy. Munitions for the Frogfoots should be pretty cheap as well when we have the opportunity to buy it. My problem is that we've already built a healthy stockpile of NATO-compatible munitions, and the Phantom is the only decent plane out of what's on offer that uses most of them. Stockpiling for Warsaw Pact planes would mean more millions out the door before we can use them, which we can't exactly afford right now.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 22:52
|
|
|
xthetenth posted:My preferences are: Agreeing entirely with this.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 22:55
|
|
|
6 phantoms 2 UAV Plan b, longer route 6 phantoms allows us to sustain a 4 ship of capable multirole missile/bomb trucks that are survivable in a contested environment, which are also compatible with our existing munitions stock. They're capable fighter bombers and much more versatile than the other options. We can get some UAVs for some cheap low intensity battle damage assessment and recon instead of having to send a manned asset. Plan b cause I'm worried there may be some 'interesting' events triggered if we overfly Myanmar and assume people are neutral
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 23:00
|
|
|
Guys? You might want to factor the Andaman Islands into your planning. India has both naval and air force bases there, and it's relatively near the part of Myanmar where the Chinese port is located.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 23:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 16:00 |
|
|
F4-E Phantom SU-25 Frogfoot 
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 23:05
|
|