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i think if we link the ideas of holding the south today with ika + the remnant brigades and attacking tomorrow in the south with the jagers, ika could spend the night going north, so even as we attack in the south we've provided the fde with a low-fatigue intact brigade as reinforcements also koolkevz666 posted:Trin did mention my 53rd firing on a British company though with rifles. is this the line you're thinking of? quote:Not pictured: squabbling between the 53rd and a few enemy companies; one pops out of the right-hand trench to the south to fire; you kill the company you spotted yourself. i think the context ('right-hand trench to the south') indicates that trin has misnumbered the unit, as he does from time to time. i think he's talking about the 54th. but Trin, i think it would be helpful if you could clarify this. did the 53rd ever engage in rifle fire? of course, if it's some other line or screenshot i missed that tipped kevin off then maybe the question isn't important edit: for more context here's the line above followed by the first bit of the next turn: Trin Tragula posted:Not pictured: squabbling between the 53rd and a few enemy companies; one pops out of the right-hand trench to the south to fire; you kill the company you spotted yourself. that really makes it sound like it was the 54th, not the 53rd, who engaged in the squabbling. getting this straight is pretty important, because if i'm right i think we can assume the 53rd remains unspotted oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Apr 6, 2017 |
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Apr 6, 2017 02:22
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Sorry, it's midterms and I'm crunched for time. Jaguars is acting Corps Command once more.
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Apr 6, 2017 02:38
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american bed-time the night before the orders are due is like 27 hours from now, by the way - just a reminder
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Apr 6, 2017 02:43
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Bollocks. Yeah, that was the 54th; the 53rd just sat and watched the guns and did not fire.
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Apr 6, 2017 02:45
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Holy crap those trenches are almost certainly full of artillery. We need to walk double-triple tap hits across the front and back trenches and we can probably wipe out a bunch of guns. Looks like another BEF bde dug in across the center as well from those trenches. Most importantly did they see where our arty was going with their spotter plane? [E] our arty is unlimbered now right? Saros fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Apr 6, 2017 |
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Apr 6, 2017 02:51
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What the gently caress was that.
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Apr 6, 2017 03:17
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SNAFU.
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Apr 6, 2017 03:24
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also they would've been aware of our spotter plane near their artillery, so they might move. still worth shooting at those trenches, but i'm just sayin part of the reason we need to shell those infantry is that they're surely going to shell the trenches they know the 54ths in, so we need to subject their opposite numbers to the same punishment, all of the infantry and trenches we've spotted. i think we have an advantage in that battle - i'm hoping the 54th get some benefit from being in a forest, but who knows, maybe it's the reverse. either way we can't let them stage a charge ok so do we feel OK leaving that gap between the 53rd and the 51st (whatever it is, i think steinrokkan's overstrength bde?) open for another 8 turns? we do have spotting. if it's not a priority for this turn we can worry about it later and leave those two brigades where they are. any movements elsewhere in the FdE at all? is the 54th in their final position until tomorrow morning at least? also, in case it inspires anybody or w/e, i should say that in roll20 theres been discussion of sending that cav eng digging a trench from douche to the CC down the southern road to fix wire breaks when it's done. i don't recall any talk about escorts? we could also do it overnight but jaguars will be giving us corps orders soon so this is all just speculation oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Apr 6, 2017 |
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Apr 6, 2017 03:28
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koolkevz666 posted:I guess my men got spotted moving into the trenches in the north of FdE so any plan for me to hold position won't work. Wonder if I could possibly try and pursue the enemy artillery and try and catch it before it can redeploy. Your men would have seen anyone able to spot them. I think you just caught the edge of artillery firing blindly into FdE.
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Apr 6, 2017 03:28
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 *Command Structure* *Roll20 table* *Pre-turn checklist* *Travel times* *Movement, cover and spotting* *Firing and combat* *Firing demo* *Billy bonus* *Command and Control* *Night rules* *Writing orders including standing orders* *Relationship between standing orders and conditionals *Example orders* *Brigades, Fatigue, New terrain, indirect fire, engineer times, new hill spotting* *Trenches and terrain* Arrows! Formations! Conditionals! Standing Orders! OK, quick battle orders for the 4th Division. You are to defend the southern area against against a possible following brigade crossing at the far south of the area of operations. The possibility of the enemy crossing west of the Taillis Douche is very low, but should be hedged against. The probability of the enemy trying to push through at the very bottom or attempt to attack at the location of added space's battle is more likely, although still not huge. Worst case, you should have about 2 free turns manoeuvring time before the earliest possible attack time of any enemy at your positions. Friendly support TBA, assume only the artillery nearby, but I'll send you what I can. Rest of Corps will follow tonight, still working things out. Edit: These are orders in general for the 4ths, Aphid_licker to issue more detailed orders. Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Apr 6, 2017 |
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Apr 6, 2017 03:39
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Two turns, as in one hour? Yikes, guess I'm hugging the CC. Also, pickets continue to prove their usefulness in a very morbid way - all the guns in an artillery unit have to fire together. If artillery is set to support fire and they only see one chit, they all have to fire and waste an entire fire mission killing that one chit.
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Apr 6, 2017 03:45
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reworded things a bit.
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Apr 6, 2017 03:50
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I think we should very cautiously move up to the trenches by our south bridge. Looking at how far things can move if it received orders same time as our bde in stethoscope that enemy been was probably in our own drat trenches across the river overnight (so hopefully they are empty now?) and it would be great to secure the river line.
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Apr 6, 2017 03:50
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oh and i can track back on part of this post: (and by the way in the roll20, were we thinking that BEF 1 and BEF 5 are actually the same brigade? i can't remember) Jaguars! posted:Hasty intelligence assessment: pretty sure we're talking about this brigade? ctrl+F in the quoted post for more context Trin Tragula posted:
that sounds very specifically like the life story of some of the chits currently comprising steinrokkan's overstrength 51st. i think we can assume that BEF 4 is not a separate unit any more; if we're seeing those chits again it's as part of another brigade edit: although i don't see their hq chit get killed there here's an extremely hypothetical hypothetical: IF the enemy forces are currently comprised of 2 triangular divisions, they would have 6 infantry brigades total. that would leave them, what, one brigade we haven't accounted for? oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Apr 6, 2017 |
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Apr 6, 2017 03:57
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Yeah my guess is one in FdE, one in the central forward trenches, looking to be fairly spread out and one in reserve or covering the south. Might be more who got reinforced but two bde at least are totally dead right? I also don't think anyone has any cav left.
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Apr 6, 2017 04:00
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Yeah, the brigade that attacked added space (BEF #5) was missing a machine gun, which indicates that it's actually BEF #1 with a bunch of replacement chits. With the turn you quoted, Trins referring to our chits and they did indeed get picked up by Steinrokkan. What I'd like to know is what happens to the infantry brigade that we were fighting, did they retreat or rout? did they all die? Ed: every cavalry is dead, we've destroyed two infantry brigades conclusively.
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Apr 6, 2017 04:05
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^^ oh, dammit, i misread it. that's why their loving commander isn't dead... alright, so that's not the answer, i'm dumbSaros posted:I think we should very cautiously move up to the trenches by our south bridge. Looking at how far things can move if it received orders same time as our bde in stethoscope that enemy been was probably in our own drat trenches across the river overnight (so hopefully they are empty now?) and it would be great to secure the river line. their putative guns NW of the blob are within 40" of those trenches, so i don't know if we really want them. could we defend the fords in depth, from the TD, CC, and a diagonal cut between them? could they really do us much damage from that sort of a bridgehead?
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Apr 6, 2017 04:14
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OK how about this one? pretty sure this is the immediate turn after, on the next updateTrin Tragula posted:
and the 'who else' was me lol, i think this is where the roll happened that hosed my sad little 2nd bde out of its chance for a death-and-glory charge into the side of that huge british cavalry charge. we won that fight in the end, i guess anyway, it looks to me like i was accidentally right, and BEF 4 got beheaded edit: unless im somehow wrong again lol oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Apr 6, 2017 |
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Apr 6, 2017 04:21
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No, you'll be right. They retreated suppressed, which means they went backwards for two turns. That puts them perfectly in those trenches SW of Saros. There were 9 units just before the retreat - 3 killed, again perfect fit for those trenches. We killed one unit last update, so there'll be five left. When did the spotter plane last fly over that central area? We should be able to work out from the trench markings what has been in the area, that funny split one could only have been made by a front line brigade, for example.
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Apr 6, 2017 05:14
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Jaguars! posted:When did the spotter plane last fly over that central area? We should be able to work out from the trench markings what has been in the area, that funny split one could only have been made by a front line brigade, for example. Day 3, Turn 17: 0830. just copy-pasted that from the turn where we got the spotter plane screenshot edit: one thought i've had since my last post - an advantage of keeping our southern defense at the TD-CC line is that it keeps them out of range of enemy artillery, as long as they can't operate safely near the FdE. their current locations, for example, can barely reach the riverside trenches (which is an argument against us occupying them imo, we'd be likely to lose the aforementioned advantage). any forces the enemy sends across would have to attack without artillery support if they wanted to get anywhere useful oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Apr 6, 2017 |
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Apr 6, 2017 05:22
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I mean the time before that. Here it is, it went over at 0800 on day 2: direct comparison: 
Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Apr 6, 2017 |
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Apr 6, 2017 05:26
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wrong again. well i guess .333 is a pretty good batting average edit: i didn't notice that trench south of the bois de coq before... anyway, i guess we see where they want to have the trench line in 1915. either the first one linking up to the W edge of the FdE or the long one just W of the road. that would basically negate that road in 1915, interesting. the road distance to that trench line is about 30 inches closer to their edge of the map than it is to the northern end of the CC... ~80 vs ~110. 2-3 turns' difference, i suppose but we would have the time advantage to the northern edge of the line... so we could take the northern entrance to that road, maybe, and perhaps gain another entry point. but thats all highly speculative also on the top of the blob oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Apr 6, 2017 |
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Apr 6, 2017 05:27
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OK. first up here's another intel map updated with what we've worked out: I've marked in a couple of other trenches we know about in yellow/orange lines, and dotted in a couple of reasonable assumptions to make about where those trenches extend to based on a brigade occupying them.
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Apr 6, 2017 08:30
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Added Space posted:Why does the enemy keep recklessly charging me to get slaughtered? I would have to ask Trin to tell me where it stands on spoiler rules. And also which unit(s) those were, since I have no idea. (I do have PMs now, so if he needs to contact me behind the scenes with it, it should be a bunch easier.)
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Apr 6, 2017 08:50
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The surprise entire loving BEF brigade on what we considered our side of the river really underscores the importance of actually maintaining a front line.
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Apr 6, 2017 10:25
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Arrows! Formations! Conditionals! Standing Orders!  IV Corps ordersFirst up, yet another intel point:  I believe this trench is occupied by troops attempting to co-ordinate a defence with the troops in the FdE. Stay out of range. We know far more about the enemy now than we did last turn. They don't know nearly as much about us. They've seen added space's brigade and Saros', they have vague ideas that we're in the FdE, but don't know for where as evidenced by their speculative missions throughout the forest. Their heavy artillery is known to be re-positioning, giving us some freedom of action. I believe that Added Space's brigade will prove too tempting a target and may provoke another foolhardy attack if they have a brigade near by. Other than that, I think they will largely stay on the defensive. Although our position is not ideal for attacking due to the flank attack and comms problems, I still believe that we need to act before the 26th division becomes completely exhausted tomorrow. So the mission this time is not to take ground, but to destroy or weaken the enemy defenses to smooth the path for the new division. 4th Division: As previously detailed. Brigades should mutually support each other. 26th Division: Our aim is to weaken or destroy the units to our immediate south, using our numbers and artillery support to skew the casualty rate in our favour. An opening bombardment will supress targets to the south prior to the attack. Steinrokkan's brigade is to move to destroy units in these trenches:  Use some of your extra troops to defend against the possibility of a coincidental attack coming from the west. Saros, your goal is to significantly weaken units in these ones:  H-Hour will be Day 3, turn 27 (1330). This is when the infantry will move to contact. Artillery will stop bombarding the infantry trenches and concentrate on preventing the british guns from firing. You are not to move within Rifle range of Bois de Blob or the position mentioned at the start of orders. To stymy the enemy reaction, both brigades will return to their starting points on turn 31 (1530) Don't fight your troops to the end, we should break off rather than destroy our own brigades. The 53rd continue as it is. In the unlikely event that BEF #3 brigade moves west, they will open fire, likely causing the brigade to stop or direct it's energies away from the hole in our lines. 52nd to continue it's mission and return to division area ASAP. I've done my best to make the times and movement work, let me know if you spot something I've missed. Take the intiative if it achieves the overall goal of the mission. Orders priority: 54th 51st 53rd 52nd Artillery: The artillery has two jobs today, support the attack and support the 4th division if they need it. 1st priority is the 4th division, but they won't need your full resources. Give the central battery the less important tasks and have the northern one concentrate everything on the attack. Entrenched units take some time to supress, concentration of fire is important. Targets: These infantry must be suppressed by H-Hour. After H-hour, our infantry will be danger close to the north end of the trenches, but you may still hit the south end if feasable. With the infantry engaged, smash the hell out of the gun line to prevent supporting fire.  If you have time, supress these guys. There is considerable order delay at the moment, so give a time on target for the most important bombardments. Use those heavies wisely, they make a big difference! Manage your ammunition. The guards will be fighting in the night and we will need to support them. I defer to your expertise, you can interpret these orders liberally as long as the infantry get their support. Engineering Send an engineer down the southern road to fix the telephone lines. You will not have an escort, because we can't spare one. The possible loss of an engineer means nothing compared to having secure lines of communication. Otherwise, keep up the good work and focus on works that act as a multiplier for the 4th division. quote:Attack timeline ****** 1st Guards are to arrive at Day 3 turn 40, we can last an extra update for fresh troops. Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 13:16 on Apr 6, 2017 |
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Apr 6, 2017 12:07
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Jaguars just to confirm that I am not to hold fire unless enemies come within spotting distance of my units this time? My objective being to shoot anyone that comes in range right?
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Apr 6, 2017 13:42
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yeah, your goal is to fire at anyone who goes east through the part of the forest you control.
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Apr 6, 2017 13:57
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 Movement orders: None Standing orders: When attacking the enemy: Use rifle fire When an enemy company Breaks Off or Retreats Suppressed: Do not pursue the enemy Break off automatically at: 2/3 casualties
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Apr 6, 2017 14:07
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 Right then, let's get too it. By my count 16 missions remain for each battery FIRE MISSION 1 (D3T25)  1 Turn  1 Turn Red for southern battery, yellow for northern. FIRE MISSION 2 (D3T27) Both batteries have 14 missions Southern Battery to provide supporting fire Northern Battery fire mission as follows  Fire for 3 turns. End Result Northern Battery - 11 missions Southern Battery - 14 missions sniper4625 fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Apr 7, 2017 |
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Apr 6, 2017 17:00
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If there are troops in the trenches between FdE and the depression, should they be engaged from distance, or ignored? I assume ignored as much as possible.
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Apr 6, 2017 17:12
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I feel like I've harped on this several times, but please double up targeting instead of spreading your fire out. A single attack does very little to units in trenches. Your current orders might as read "fire randomly and waste shells."
Added Space fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Apr 6, 2017 |
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Apr 6, 2017 17:16
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Added Space posted:I feel like I've harper on this several times, but please double up targeting instead of spreading your fire out. A single attack does very little to units in trenches. Your current orders might as read "fire randomly and waste shells." No, it definitely bears repeating.
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Apr 6, 2017 17:21
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Added Space posted:I feel like I've harped on this several times, but please double up targeting instead of spreading your fire out. A single attack does very little to units in trenches. Your current orders might as read "fire randomly and waste shells." We've been operating under different definitions of "doubled up."
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Apr 6, 2017 17:38
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sniper4625 posted:We've been operating under different definitions of "doubled up." Fair enough. What I mean is designate half the targeting areas and order two strikes on each.
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Apr 6, 2017 17:39
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 is this what you mean?Ninja edit: It is. Will revamp along these lines.
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Apr 6, 2017 17:41
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sniper4625 posted:We've been operating under different definitions of "doubled up." The problem here is that your orders represent the bare minimum needed to kill something, under perfect conditions. So it's not really a doubling up from the standpoint of effects.
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Apr 6, 2017 17:42
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Yeah, that's it, thank you. This will hopefully take advantage of the "suppressed units are automatically killed" rule. It's better to concentrate force anyway, hopefully we've learned that by now.
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Apr 6, 2017 17:45
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steinrokkan posted:The problem here is that your orders represent the bare minimum needed to kill something, under perfect conditions. So it's not really a doubling up from the standpoint of effects. Yeah, like I said, I was operating under memories about the rules that on further investigation were not quite correct! New orders should be better.
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Apr 6, 2017 17:45
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steinrokkan posted:If there are troops in the trenches between FdE and the depression, should they be engaged from distance, or ignored? I assume ignored as much as possible. If we're thinking of those weird squiggly trenches, i think the words jags used for them are 'stay out of range' so I would assume the same as you edit he also said this: "You are not to move within Rifle range of Bois de Blob or the position mentioned at the start of orders", which I'm pretty sure is the position we are discussing, so I suppose that gives you some exclusion zones so what can go wrong here? I guess the main thing would be if our troops get immobilized by an hq hit, or less severely if they're unable to return to current positions by the time indicated. the second probably is fine, they'd complete their orders next update. the first can probably be minimized by leaving the hq in the trenches? also stuff like getting routed, I suppose, but that's a risk just sitting in place too, really enemy attack in the fde is relatively well accounted for by leaving some of Stein's troops to guard against it, and by kev's hopefully silent, u-boat like overwatch oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Apr 6, 2017 |
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Apr 6, 2017 17:53
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