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Cold on a Cob posted:30% renting just outside of Toronto. That sounds terrible. But I read earlier in this thread that Toronto is apparently pretty hosed up when it comes to real estate and renting, so I am not too surprised. I imagine you're in pretty good company with your peers in that area, too?
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Apr 6, 2017 20:43
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CmdrRiker posted:Jesus Christ. What is your situation like? Did you buy a fixer upper? Do you go for incredibly minimal square footage? Do you live in a rural town and work remote for a company based in NYC? Sometime I wonder if I should do the latter. I work remote in a place with a pretty high cost of living, though my income is reasonable for my location. Maybe that makes me even more BWM. Twerk from Home posted:That's wild and far outside of US norms. Good for you! I thought I was doing pretty well to be spending 20% of net, although I'm about to be spending much more by moving somewhere with a higher cost of living. monster on a stick posted:sup, GWM bro  Blinky2099 posted:6.25% gross income for rent in the bay area (~10.5% net?)
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Apr 6, 2017 20:45
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22 Eargesplitten posted:I don't know about overall, but new positions around here are majority contracts. If that's still goonsay, look on dice.com for Colorado and count contracts vs full time hires. Denver is better than the smaller cities. It's so bizarre to me, I've never met someone who was so skeptical and argumentative towards the claim that tech companies have increasingly hired contract employees for over a decade Like does he have a stake in it or is he pushing a political viewpoint or something? 
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Apr 6, 2017 20:44
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John Smith posted:I am a FI extremist. Hence, I generally refrain from consuming material goods. My income is fairly decent, though I suppose lower than many of the tech and finance people here. I thought I was doing it well by living in a house that costs 1x annual household income, but I'm still spending more than that. Cool.
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Apr 6, 2017 20:46
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Motronic posted:Wait, what? This isn't something I'm aware of at all and google doesn't seem to reveal any conclusive data. Yeah, still goonsay and all, but having worked at 3 major tech companies that's not the case at any of them, except for recruiters and manual QA.
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Apr 6, 2017 20:47
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Ashcans posted:Housing costs are sort of difficult because they are going to scale differently depending on what your income is and where you are living. Most places have a housing floor where you just can't find housing below that amount, so if you're broke your options are to pay too much of your income for housing or live in a car. And on the other side, if you are high-earning/rich you are going to have to go bonkers to continually spend significant amounts of your income on housing. Someone who makes $30,000 is simply going to have to spend a higher % on housing even if they make the best possible decisions compared to someone who makes $75,000 or $500,000. A family who makes a million dollars a year can make ridiculously bad decisions and still end up lower percentage than someone who is eking it out at minimum wage/poverty level with the most rigorous and careful budget. That's a really good point. The numbers feel less helpful for temperature-taking and more voyeuristic now. I also realized that I am incorrectly assuming that most of this community belong to a middle/upper middle class demographic.
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Apr 6, 2017 20:48
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I guess paying 27% of my net in rent is relatively BWM in a low-cost of living area? Definitely not the first BWM thing I've done, though.
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Apr 6, 2017 20:48
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legendof posted:Yeah, still goonsay and all, but having worked at 3 major tech companies that's not the case at any of them, except for recruiters and manual QA. It could very well be a regional thing because in Austin we have a whole lot of contract work (and our fair share of FTE positions too, certainly not the majority though)
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Apr 6, 2017 20:52
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Twerk from Home posted:I thought I was doing it well by living in a house that costs 1x annual household income, but I'm still spending more than that. Cool. Assuming you pay 30% net tax rate, your imputed rent yield is 14% based on your 20% of net income. Property in your area seems to be very high yielding. Thought of becoming a landlord? 
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Apr 6, 2017 20:52
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legendof posted:Yeah, still goonsay and all, but having worked at 3 major tech companies that's not the case at any of them, except for recruiters and manual QA. Also IT/operations depending on the job. But stuffed implies something like 50% or more. I've worked at tech companies for years, including as a contractor, and haven't seen any "stuffing" - contractors are usually more expensive than FT because of the cut that the contracting firm gets.
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Apr 6, 2017 20:53
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When I worked at Cisco it was pretty much 70-80 percent contract and 20-30 percent "blue badge" in our building, granted this is just one data point but technical recruiters are making a killing here. I don't want to go into details about my current job but "stuffed" definitely applies as well
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Apr 6, 2017 20:54
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KingSlime posted:When I worked at Cisco it was pretty much 70-80 percent contract and 20-30 percent "blue badge" in our building, granted this is just one data point but technical recruiters are making a killing here. No, I believe you when you say where you work is mostly contract, I'm just wondering if that's true across the industry since it's not the case for the big tech companies either I've worked at or are familiar with.
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Apr 6, 2017 20:58
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Ah well in that case I really can't make an assertion outside of the Austin tech market (and even then, outside of the 5-6 companies I'm familiar with, there's certainly more than that out there) so maybe my phrasing should have specified that Really though my main point is that trying to pull off collective bargaining is a silly dream for contract employees There are benefits to the contractor life though, such as but not limited to
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Apr 6, 2017 21:01
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John Smith posted:Assuming you pay 30% net tax rate, your imputed rent yield is 14% based on your 20% of net income. Property in your area seems to be very high yielding. I'll open my books some to clarify. I own my house, it costs that much because my net income isn't super high (18k to 401k, 5k to dependent care FSA, 2.5k to daycare FSA, my employer gouges us on insurance costs), I'm on a 15 year mortgage, property taxes are over 3% and homeowners insurance costs a fortune because I'm in a hurricane and flood-prone area. I don't want to become a landlord here, I want to get out of the state.
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Apr 6, 2017 21:04
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legendof posted:Honestly a lot of it is really obvious. My parents' house is falling apart, and it's just because they put repairs off until they get worse and worse, and it becomes hard/expensive/impossible to repair things back to "good as new". They're not lazy, just cheap (my father always insists he can fix it himself, just not *this* weekend, he'll get around to it next weekend...) and it definitely costs them more money in the long run to not keep up on repairs. It doesn't feel obvious. I don't attempt very many DIY things because I am lazy and BWM. Like example, I got a huge leak in my basement after record breaking rainfall. My house has drain tile and sump pump. The sump pump was chugging along all night, but the other side of my house's carpet was utterly drenched afterwards anyway. The way we fixed it was build back up the grading along that side of the house, extended all the gutter drain pipes out another few feet, and checked the drain tile for a clog (there wasn't one). We called a few companies to come see what the issue might be, but all they loving did was quote us new drain tile and didn't offer any idea as to why that would loving make a difference. So now, that is where things have been left. There hasn't been any issues since, but also there hasn't been any record rainfall either. Meanwhile, I sit here thinking I am BWM for not doing more but also BWM for just letting a lovely company offer to rewaterproof my basement without understanding why that might actually make a difference.
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Apr 6, 2017 21:05
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KingSlime posted:Ah well in that case I really can't make an assertion outside of the Austin tech market (and even then, outside of the 5-6 companies I'm familiar with, there's certainly more than that out there) so maybe my phrasing should have specified that At least when I was still a contractor: Not having to deal with bullshit company politics ("I'm just a contractor, leave me out of it") and getting paid by the hour (which really meant working 40 hours and then walking out the door because nobody would sign off on OT.) Probably depends greatly on the corporate culture though, maybe I was lucky
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Apr 6, 2017 21:08
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Yeah the real benefits are that I don't have to be invested in the company and you can get a job real loving quick if you're okay with contract work. I also have energy to focus on my own endeavors outside of my nice, steady check. Plus job-hopping is all the rage so it encourages and fosters the kind of detached, "always shoppin'" attitude that leads to raises and promotions with other companies
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Apr 6, 2017 21:09
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All in, with property taxes included, our family pays 3.6% of our gross to housing every year.
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Apr 6, 2017 21:12
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KingSlime posted:Yeah the real benefits are that I don't have to be invested in the company and you can get a job real loving quick if you're okay with contract work. I also have energy to focus on my own endeavors outside of my nice, steady check. Yeah, that is the number one piece of advice I get in this field-- increase your compensation by getting a new job. I hate that advice with a heat of a thousand suns. I don't want to be constantly shopping around and interviewing. I just want to be valued and paid what I am worth.
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Apr 6, 2017 21:12
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:All in, with property taxes included, our family pays 3.6% of our gross to housing every year. How the gently caress do you do that? I am impressed but a bit skeptical.
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Apr 6, 2017 21:14
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CmdrRiker posted:How the gently caress do you do that? I am impressed but a bit skeptical. we own an affordable (~1/2 year take-home) house on a long note and earn insane wages
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Apr 6, 2017 21:15
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My family is at 13.5% of gross income on rent.
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Apr 6, 2017 21:16
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Twerk from Home posted:I'll open my books some to clarify. I own my house, it costs that much because my net income isn't super high (18k to 401k, 5k to dependent care FSA, 2.5k to daycare FSA, my employer gouges us on insurance costs), I'm on a 15 year mortgage, property taxes are over 3% and homeowners insurance costs a fortune because I'm in a hurricane and flood-prone area. Ah. Well, I didn't meant it as you not being accurate. More that I thought the real estate in your area must be extremely depressed to yield so high.
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Apr 6, 2017 21:18
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Think that the moral of the story here is to live in the Projects and be a 2 doctors household. That should get you all the way down to 1% imputed rent. You might end up needing some of the services you provide, of course. Good thing is that your wife can treat your gunshot wounds while you treat hers.
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Apr 6, 2017 21:22
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CmdrRiker posted:I am BWM and want to ask this community a few questions. I think we're around 25% net, which I realize is a bit high.
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Apr 6, 2017 21:31
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KingSlime posted:It's so bizarre to me, I've never met someone who was so skeptical and argumentative towards the claim that tech companies have increasingly hired contract employees for over a decade I definitely wasn't saying that, although I don't think you're responding to me in this. Agreed on "increasingly hired contractors", but I'm having a hard time buying "the majority of employees in tech are contract employees". These things are not mutually exclusive. legendof posted:Yeah, still goonsay and all, but having worked at 3 major tech companies that's not the case at any of them, except for recruiters and manual QA. Okay, well I work for a unicorn gone public startup that you may have heard of and we have like 700 employees and maybe 100 contractors at any given time. I've worked at way more than 3 other bay area companies and contractors were well under 50%, as is the experience of many friends that work at other companies in the bay area and back home in NY/NJ/PA/telecom central in tech jobs. I also have a family member who started out with HP as a contract employee for 2 years or so, but is now an actual employee. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, which is why I was asking if there were some actual stats on this - after attempting to find some without success. KingSlime posted:It could very well be a regional thing This seems likely.
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Apr 6, 2017 21:34
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John Smith posted:Think that the moral of the story here is to live in the Projects and be a 2 doctors household. That should get you all the way down to 1% imputed rent. What's crazy is that this money buys me a 3k square foot house in a recently-built, modest subdivision neighborhood with relatively pleasant neighbors, excellent services and good schools. There's a pond out my back window where the geese land both ways going to and from Canada. I don't know that our lives would be meaningfully "better" with a house costing 4%, 8%, 12%, 16% or 20% of our gross. My little corner of the woods is just insanely affordable. EAT FASTER!!!!!! fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Apr 6, 2017 |
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Apr 6, 2017 21:44
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John Smith posted:Serious question. As a liberal, are you seriously annoyed by those Conservatives who deny basic science, such as climate change and evolution? Why do you yourself engage in denial of basic economic concepts as supply and demand? Lol economics isn't science.
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Apr 6, 2017 21:44
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cowofwar posted:Lol economics isn't science. Funny. That is exactly what the Conservatives say about climate science.
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Apr 6, 2017 21:45
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:What's crazy is that this money buys me a 3k square foot house in a recently-built, modest subdivision neighborhood with relatively pleasant neighbors, excellent services and good schools. There's a pond out my back window where the geese land both ways going to and from Canada. I don't know that our lives would be meaningfully "better" with a house costing 4%, 8%, 12%, 16% or 20% of our gross. That wasn't intended as a dig at you, in case you were thinking that. More of how the numbers keep going down. Surely anytime soon, somebody is going to hit 1%!!!
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Apr 6, 2017 21:47
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:we own an affordable (~1/2 year take-home) house on a long note and earn insane wages Guillotine. 31%, and that's probably going up before it goes down  .
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Apr 6, 2017 21:48
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I knew I was well on the bottom end of BFC incomes, but this sure does put it into perspective. Which is kind of a shame, because the people who most desperately need to improve their finances are at the bottom. Although at a certain point you get to where you only really have one budget/money issue, and that is 'I need more money'. Tomie knows me posted:I guess paying 27% of my net in rent is relatively BWM in a low-cost of living area? Definitely not the first BWM thing I've done, though. CmdrRiker posted:Like example, I got a huge leak in my basement after record breaking rainfall. My house has drain tile and sump pump. The sump pump was chugging along all night, but the other side of my house's carpet was utterly drenched afterwards anyway. The way we fixed it was build back up the grading along that side of the house, extended all the gutter drain pipes out another few feet, and checked the drain tile for a clog (there wasn't one). I don't know if that is the situation you're in, but its a place a lot of people are going to find themselves.
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Apr 6, 2017 21:49
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E: late to the discussion
Subjunctive fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Apr 6, 2017 |
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Apr 6, 2017 21:50
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John Smith posted:That wasn't intended as a dig at you, in case you were thinking that. More of how the numbers keep going down. Surely anytime soon, somebody is going to hit 1%!!! Nah, no such feelings. The whole topic just made me feel incredibly fortunate, which is good. Buffett in "Becoming Buffett" talks about planning his breakfast based on how prosperous he's feeling, which I admire, the big autistic weirdo savant that he is, but more important I think is to be grateful for the circumstances and situation your life has provided, including all the warts and worms that come along with it.
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Apr 6, 2017 21:54
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John Smith posted:Funny. That is exactly what the Conservatives say about climate science. Checkmate, atheists.
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Apr 6, 2017 21:54
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John Smith posted:Er... her initial reply was not on EMH. I fully agree that EMH is not (very) settled mainstream science, specifically whether it is true in a strong, semi-strong, or weak form. You have no dispute from me on this. Trying to address a speculative bubble with supply requires flooding a market with supply which is terrible policy all around. But it makes a lot of money for developers.
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Apr 6, 2017 21:55
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I'm at 4% net, plus whatever maintenance (7-year-old house, so not much).
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Apr 6, 2017 21:56
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Subjunctive posted:I'm at 4% net, plus whatever maintenance (7-year-old house, so not much). Guillotine.
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Apr 6, 2017 21:57
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30% net, 16% gross, renting a 1br apt I'm on the cusp of acceptible living situations but I like living alone and staying flexible
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Apr 6, 2017 21:58
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:Guillotine. Yeah, my charitable donations are almost 5x my housing costs. No doubt it's going to building the guillotine.
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Apr 6, 2017 21:58
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