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The buy people ended up going with is basically the worst option that was available. Not enough Phantoms to get a proper flight up so you might as well not have bothered and an equally symbolic quantity of a plane that is useless outside massacring people that are so defenseless that you might as well have the pilot walk over and beat them to death with a stick, but we're still out double digit millions.
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Apr 7, 2017 18:09
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aphid_licker posted:The buy people ended up going with is basically the worst option that was available. Not enough Phantoms to get a proper flight up so you might as well not have bothered and an equally symbolic quantity of a plane that is useless outside massacring people that are so defenseless that you might as well have the pilot walk over and beat them to death with a stick, but we're still out double digit millions. Yeah, we really shouldn't have bothered with that few phantoms or the frogfeet. We got so few phantoms all the complaints about their reliability are actually valid. In return for crippling the only strike planes capable of operating in contested airspace that aren't our exceedingly few high end fighters, we bought a pair of souped up versions of the planes we're already trying and usually failing to find use for. Yaaaaaaaay.  Edit: For future requisitions, can we please have a runoff between the top two and consolidate similar buys? I have a feeling hexaphantom or all phantoms would have won mano a mano against the platypus plan that's neither fish nor fowl. xthetenth fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Apr 7, 2017 |
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Apr 7, 2017 18:12
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lol if you don't think we're going to be committing war crimes with those Frogfoots for extra bonus cash.
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Apr 7, 2017 18:20
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xthetenth posted:Yeah, we really shouldn't have bothered with that few phantoms or the frogfeet. I think two rounds of voting is fine for major decisions, where the top two conductors can modify their proposals and resubmit final versions for round two. But we have to make a decision sometime and can't waffle around debating the details forever. I agree that hexaphantom was the way to go, but the design-by-committee aspect of this thread is all the fun! It's like a microcosm of DoD procurement!
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Apr 7, 2017 18:31
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Popete posted:lol if you don't think we're going to be committing war crimes with those Frogfoots for extra bonus cash. A job the SK60s or Phantoms could have done just fine, tyvm. We gave up on the ability to reliably scramble supersonic napalm runs for a plane that's basically what would happen if you sucked the soul and everything good out of a Warthog. Tetraptous posted:I think two rounds of voting is fine for major decisions, where the top two conductors can modify their proposals and resubmit final versions for round two. But we have to make a decision sometime and can't waffle around debating the details forever. I agree that hexaphantom was the way to go, but the design-by-committee aspect of this thread is all the fun! It's like a microcosm of DoD procurement! This is how political parties get born. xthetenth fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Apr 7, 2017 |
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Apr 7, 2017 18:36
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Yooper posted:Sure! Or it can be your brother, Guns Guns Guns Guns, and you can keep your slot. The two LP's will be run separately. Phi's gonna have his baby, I'll run this, there'll be some overlap. But for the most part if his people die a horrible and fantastic death it won't light all our jets on fire or anything. It will be his grandfather, Guns.
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Apr 7, 2017 18:42
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xthetenth posted:Edit: For future requisitions, can we please have a runoff between the top two and consolidate similar buys? I have a feeling hexaphantom or all phantoms would have won mano a mano against the platypus plan that's neither fish nor fowl. I'd like to see the package deals that Yooper proposed. Have each package be geared towards one aircraft (i.e. all Phantoms, all day), one type of aircraft (strike fighters, etc.), or one mission set (strike, etc.). Maybe throw in a UAV with the package or something as a side bonus. It limits our choices a little, but it keeps things cleaner and simpler. And there's less voting to keep track of.
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Apr 7, 2017 18:52
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Bacarruda posted:I'd like to see the package deals that Yooper proposed. Have each package be geared towards one aircraft (i.e. all Phantoms, all day), one type of aircraft (strike fighters, etc.), or one mission set (strike, etc.). Maybe throw in a UAV with the package or something as a side bonus. Yeah, that would be a good solution to split blocs.
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Apr 7, 2017 19:00
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Bacarruda posted:I'd like to see the package deals that Yooper proposed. Have each package be geared towards one aircraft (i.e. all Phantoms, all day), one type of aircraft (strike fighters, etc.), or one mission set (strike, etc.). Maybe throw in a UAV with the package or something as a side bonus. This is what I'll be doing in the future. Then once we've decided on a particular option you guys can add another of this, or another of that. I'm doing this mostly for brevity, I know some people here love debating jets and compiling spreadsheets (me!) but others just wanna come in and vote A, B, or SU-25 Frogfoots.  Speaking of procurement. We have a once in a lifetime opportunity. I've been approached by a Goon on the Ground. One of our own who I'll leave nameless unless he wishes to be named. After arm wrestling a Russian bear he overheard a conversation about a certain liquidation occurring in the Ukraine. Some enterprising bureaucrat sold a museum filled with aircraft to a private investor. After the investors plan to turn it into a Leninist theme park fell through, the creditors stepped in and everything is for sale. Everything. He's locked into a serious negotiation right now between 4 ex-colonels and a 4 liter bottle of vodka. More details to come. Feel free to speculate, but we'll keep the voting until after this mission. A taste of this fine inventory...     Yes, we really do have a Goon on the Ground. How awesome is that?
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Apr 7, 2017 19:38
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Let's vote on that! Let's not Phoenix Grognard Twilight LP will get a link dropped here, yeah?
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Apr 7, 2017 19:40
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JcDent posted:Let's vote on that! Yeah when its up. By tonight.
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Apr 7, 2017 19:41
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That An-2 and Bryev bote can be used to drop paras or, failing that, exploding barrels! I call it the Syrian-Rhodesian approach.
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Apr 7, 2017 19:44
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We need to paint our tanker up like that grafitti covered biplane. 
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Apr 7, 2017 19:47
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Put all of our money into Ekranoplan's, it's the only reasonable choice.
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Apr 7, 2017 19:49
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JcDent posted:That An-2 and Bryev bote can be used to drop paras or, failing that, exploding barrels! I call it the Syrian-Rhodesian approach. 
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Apr 7, 2017 20:03
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JcDent posted:That An-2 and Bryev bote can be used to drop paras or, failing that, exploding barrels! I call it the Syrian-Rhodesian approach. ...do we really want to go down that road? Really?
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Apr 7, 2017 20:04
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In the real world, Saab is working on upgrading their Gripens to carry the next generation of RBS-15 missiles. This is not unlike what our anti-shipping planes look like.
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Apr 7, 2017 20:16
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Popete posted:Put all of our money into Ekranoplan's, it's the only reasonable choice.
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Apr 7, 2017 20:19
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CBJamo posted:This is all correct. I'm hoping that we'll eventually have the cash to upgrade our fleet to Es and get some Fs. This is not a short term solution to our SEAD problem. There's a whole bunch of structural changes to the aircraft, stuff like the landing gear being shunted into the wing roots, a new engine, a new radar etc. I don't think that it'd be possible to upgrade a C/D Gripen to the E/F standard. It'd be more doable to install the newer radar, but will either the Swedes or Brazilians be okay with some private company having access to their brand new AESA radar? I kinda doubt it. On top of that, the MAR-1 is a pretty mediocre missile. Here's its CMANO-DB page. http://cmano-db.com/weapon/2702/ Here is the ARM on the Polish Fitter. http://cmano-db.com/weapon/1748/ Here are the ARMs on the Ivanov's Fencers. http://cmano-db.com/weapon/1751/ http://cmano-db.com/weapon/276/ And here is the HARM that the German Tornadoes have. http://cmano-db.com/weapon/650/ I'd much rather us buying either the Fitters, Fencers or Tornadoes over upgrading the Gripens, if only for the reason that we would get more pilot slots for people to fill.
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Apr 7, 2017 20:19
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Oh goody it's a yak-38, or the harrier times the Starfighter. I do actually want an An-2 for insertions and stupidity.
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Apr 7, 2017 20:22
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Buy mid- to late-block F-16s. They can carry HARMs (or can easily be modified to carry them). They can use many of the same weapons the Gripens can. And surplus ones are reasonably available and affordable.
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Apr 7, 2017 20:23
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As the proprietor of our ground element I vote AN-2 for airborne insertion
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Apr 7, 2017 20:32
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Well, that's Baloogan's problem!  Phi230 posted:As the proprietor of our ground element I vote AN-2 for airborne insertion Can we make one into a gunship?
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Apr 7, 2017 20:36
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I mean there is historical precedent for it. IIRC some guys strapped rockets onto a cessna once
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Apr 7, 2017 20:37
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Phi230 posted:I mean there is historical precedent for it. IIRC some guys strapped rockets onto a cessna once 
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Apr 7, 2017 20:44
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Phi230 posted:I mean there is historical precedent for it. IIRC some guys strapped rockets onto a cessna once Eric Prince of Blackwater fame is apparently bombing Libya with Emirate cropduster reincarnation of IL-2. 
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Apr 7, 2017 20:47
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Yooper posted:
Friends, Comrades! Excellent opportunity for value Soviet planes! Some younger than fifty years and others even flying! Some with bombs some not, even helicopter or two!  Excellent quality airframe (maybe only one engine) pictured with fine self.  Function wonderful apart from one time wings fall off (not fault of ours).  Makes pesky hospital go away or maybe neighbour of hospital, no guarantee! Saros fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Apr 7, 2017 |
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Apr 7, 2017 20:50
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Oh no not more frogfoots
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Apr 7, 2017 20:51
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JcDent posted:Eric Prince of Blackwater fame is apparently bombing Libya with Emirate cropduster reincarnation of IL-2. Ironically, if we sold off the Saab 105s and bought these, we'd have a more capable (and cheaper) ground attack aircraft. If we have the chance (and if we plan on operating in safish ground-attack environments), we might want to consider picking up a few of these. http://cmano-db.com/aircraft/2254/ http://cmano-db.com/aircraft/4354/ Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Apr 7, 2017 |
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Apr 7, 2017 20:54
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Ground attack is great but they're vulnerable
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Apr 7, 2017 20:59
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I had a feeling that the goon on the ground was Saros. Those pictures looked suspiciously similar to what you were sharing in the DC:B Discord earlier. See if you can find us more Frogfoots the thread loves them.
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Apr 7, 2017 21:02
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Quinntan posted:Oh no not more frogfoots Ohhh yeaaaahhh!
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Apr 7, 2017 21:10
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The biplane is the perfect vehicle for convert insertions and late night liquor runs.
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Apr 7, 2017 21:14
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sparkmaster posted:The biplane is the perfect vehicle for convert insertions and late night liquor runs. And Lobbyist rescue. Or liquor drops.
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Apr 7, 2017 21:20
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Phi230 posted:Ground attack is great but they're vulnerable So make them as cheap as possible. Also I'm requesting a crazy Alaskan bush pilot for the An-2. Doesn't have to be me but whoever gets it becomes that.
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Apr 7, 2017 21:32
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Bacarruda posted:Ironically, if we sold off the Saab 105s and bought these, we'd have a more capable (and cheaper) ground attack aircraft. Endless screaming in the Cold War thread has convinced me that MANPADS and HMGs are everywhere, so bombing useless dirt is only ever safely conducted at 35,000 feet and Mach 1.5.
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Apr 7, 2017 21:34
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For wacky CAS options, there's also the T-6 Texan! WW2 trainer that got exported and used by the Syrians against Israel (among other third-world air forces). Go to Warbird Adventures in Kissimmee, FL (not far from Walt Disney World) and you can fly a T-6 for a few hundred bucks. chitoryu12 fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Apr 7, 2017 |
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Apr 7, 2017 21:41
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Quinntan posted:There's a whole bunch of structural changes to the aircraft, stuff like the landing gear being shunted into the wing roots, a new engine, a new radar etc. I don't think that it'd be possible to upgrade a C/D Gripen to the E/F standard. It'd be more doable to install the newer radar, but will either the Swedes or Brazilians be okay with some private company having access to their brand new AESA radar? I kinda doubt it. I was under the impression that it was all internal changes. This is quite disappointing. Well, maybe we'll be able to buy Es at some point, but you're right about the MAR-1, it was only interesting if we could use it on our current planes. That being the case, the Tornadoes would be my preference for SEAD and EWAR duties, they can use our current weapons, and have the added bonus of having buddy refueling.
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Apr 7, 2017 21:57
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I don't think there would be a huge issue with integrating the missile itself, it's just that it's a kinda rubbish missile compared to alternatives. Edit: that and we also have the issue of having to pay for integration of the thing because our C/D's systems are different to the systems the E/F are going to have. The EWar mission is it's own bag of worms, for now we would be best served by not jumping to things before finding out if specialised platforms like, say, the Prowler ever come available. Quinntan fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Apr 7, 2017 |
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Apr 7, 2017 22:02
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Also, found some footage of our other plane in flight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgp36b839ow
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Apr 7, 2017 22:08
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