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Shulva was really cool probably my favorite DLC area in the Souls games, a kickass ziggurat city with neat platforms to raise and lower. How did we go from that to the final piece of content in the Dark Souls series being something that features two swamp areas
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Apr 9, 2017 23:34
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Internet Kraken posted:I could definitely believe that the Dreg Heap was something meant to be in the original game but the Ringed City comes completely out of left field. Its basically the human version of Anor Londo, which is weird because New Londo was supposed to be that in the original Dark Souls. There's no hints about it anywhere that I've seen. It fits, though. The furtive pygmy was easily forgotten, after all. Even a whole species. Perhaps pygmies were merely another name for primordial humans; Hollows are, after all, a relatively recent development, a mindless state of interrupted entropy. Even then, Hollows know they have to gather souls; that's all they can do. It's possible that in the Beginning, even things like personalities didn't exist, prior to the discovery of the flame. It's really hard to pin down what elements of "humanity" are born of souls and which are born of the Dark Souls i.e. actually Humanity. This vague nature has always been a beguiling element of the lore, and it's a question raised in the very first Dark Souls game. The only real answer we can glean, now, is that a being with only a soul or a being with only Dark are incomplete beings; it is when they are combined that you result in something recognizably human. The Darksign is just this: the Dark, encircled by Fire. The Chosen Undead can succeed where gods and monsters both failed, solely because they are a complete being.
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Apr 9, 2017 23:44
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Lt Jon Kavanaugh posted:Shulva was really cool probably my favorite DLC area in the Souls games, a kickass ziggurat city with neat platforms to raise and lower. How did we go from that to the final piece of content in the Dark Souls series being something that features two swamp areas Something something miyazaki something something commentary on souls community something something vaatividya
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Apr 9, 2017 23:52
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Lt Jon Kavanaugh posted:Shulva was really cool probably my favorite DLC area in the Souls games, a kickass ziggurat city with neat platforms to raise and lower. How did we go from that to the final piece of content in the Dark Souls series being something that features two swamp areas As I'd pointed out earlier, Shulva is mechanically fun (though those ghost enemies and the Gank Squad boss are awful) but it lacks any meaningful atmospheric details, particularly given its backstory. It's much better than vanilla DS2 content but at the same time it suffers from the same soullessness as the main game.
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Apr 9, 2017 23:57
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8-Bit Scholar posted:As I'd pointed out earlier, Shulva is mechanically fun (though those ghost enemies and the Gank Squad boss are awful) but it lacks any meaningful atmospheric details, particularly given its backstory. It's much better than vanilla DS2 content but at the same time it suffers from the same soullessness as the main game. Shulva is insanely atmospheric.
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Apr 9, 2017 23:59
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8-Bit Scholar posted:As I'd pointed out earlier, Shulva is mechanically fun (though those ghost enemies and the Gank Squad boss are awful) but it lacks any meaningful atmospheric details, particularly given its backstory. It's much better than vanilla DS2 content but at the same time it suffers from the same soullessness as the main game. What the gently caress? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Jz7zpNHahk
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Apr 10, 2017 00:01
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8-Bit Scholar posted:As I'd pointed out earlier, Shulva is mechanically fun (though those ghost enemies and the Gank Squad boss are awful) but it lacks any meaningful atmospheric details, particularly given its backstory. It's much better than vanilla DS2 content but at the same time it suffers from the same soullessness as the main game. It was soulless to a certain extent if you're looking at it from a lore point of view, but I think lore should always come behind fun. Having an environment you need to interact with to progress through the level was fun even if you can't reel off 5 paragraphs about Elana and Sinh and the King and Yorgh.
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Apr 10, 2017 00:08
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yeah, I don't give a gently caress what the item descriptions say and don't want to read them. I want the levels to be cool and interesting
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Apr 10, 2017 00:10
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Awesome video game moment: walking into the big temple and hearing that haunting singing. Creepy as gently caress!
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Apr 10, 2017 00:11
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on the whole 'multiple pygmies' thing I mostly just took it as the one who found the soul at the beginning was the one who turned into manus but there also happened to be others around as well who didn't get all mutated and still partook in the whole soul business the game does make a point of saying how easily forgotten they are
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Apr 10, 2017 00:16
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Even with all this new lore on the pygmies there are still people who think that Manus is the furtive pygmy?  e: not that I have any better theories re: Manus. I just thought this new stuff kinda shattered what we thought we knew about it SHISHKABOB posted:Awesome video game moment: walking into the big temple and hearing that haunting singing. Creepy as gently caress! NO! It was it Dark Souls 2 so it sucked!   B-Team! Please notice me Miyazaki-senpai.
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Apr 10, 2017 00:24
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Lt Jon Kavanaugh posted:It was soulless to a certain extent if you're looking at it from a lore point of view, but I think lore should always come behind fun. Having an environment you need to interact with to progress through the level was fun even if you can't reel off 5 paragraphs about Elana and Sinh and the King and Yorgh. I don't disagree, but the Souls series has a history of giving both. Tower of Latria is a mechanically solid level, challenging and even grueling, but it's also atmospherically on point and that elevates it to something still talked about well after the game's become old news. Souls games have done this well in the past; I do not think it unfair to critique a level for lacking it given that pedigree. I expect greatness from Souls. Augus posted:What the gently caress? I mean, that was okay? But the game already did creepy singing before earlier, so it wasn't terribly novel. And it's spooky, sure, but that doesnt' really excuse the fact that Shulva as a city looks like nobody ever really lived there; it certainly doesn't look like it was suddenly wiped out overnight. Shulva's backstory is like Pompeii; the location reflects this not at all. Plus its elevators can stick you into situations where you're stuck unless you homeward bone or die, which was something Dark Souls original seemed to go to great lengths to avoid.
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Apr 10, 2017 00:30
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8-Bit Scholar posted:It fits, though. The furtive pygmy was easily forgotten, after all. Even a whole species. Yep, so easily forgotten. That's why they were granted an entire massive city, Gwyn's first daughter, and all the other stuff never mentioned before the Ringed City DLC. Wait actually that makes no sense! Your Computer posted:Even with all this new lore on the pygmies there are still people who think that Manus is the furtive pygmy? Manus being the pygmy made complete sense prior to this DLC. It still does given there are multiple pygmies. So no, this DLC didn't shatter anything. I mean Manus is literally described as the primordial human and Kaathe says that the dark soul was discovered by the human's ancestors. There really isn't any room for him to be anything other than a pygmy there. EDIT: The only accepted lore theory I can think of that got axed by this DLC was the dark soul not being a physical thing anymore but rather the culmination of all the humanity spread across the land. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Apr 10, 2017 |
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Apr 10, 2017 00:30
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e: who cares
Wrestlepig fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Apr 10, 2017 |
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Apr 10, 2017 00:33
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Your Computer posted:NO! It was it Dark Souls 2 so it sucked! This joke is tired and not very inventive. It's a B-team joke
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Apr 10, 2017 00:42
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Plus its elevators can stick you into situations where you're stuck unless you homeward bone or die, which was something Dark Souls original seemed to go to great lengths to avoid. I'm racking my brain and can't actually think of any solid examples of this. There are times when you might have to make clever use of a bow (which the area kindly provides you with near the start) to hit a switch from a distance, or do a drop or maybe a jump to get to either safety or a place where you can then hit a switch. Could you give a specific example of a situation where you can get stuck like you described?
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Apr 10, 2017 00:54
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Vil posted:I'm racking my brain and can't actually think of any solid examples of this. There are times when you might have to make clever use of a bow (which the area kindly provides you with near the start) to hit a switch from a distance, or do a drop or maybe a jump to get to either safety or a place where you can then hit a switch. 
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Apr 10, 2017 00:58
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Internet Kraken posted:Manus being the pygmy made complete sense prior to this DLC. It still does given there are multiple pygmies. So no, this DLC didn't shatter anything. Doesn't the intro or something say that the pygmy split his soul among his descendants? So makes sense there's more pygmies if manus did that then hosed off to become a monster.
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Apr 10, 2017 01:02
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gwyn was also freaked out by the pygmies' and cursed them + gave them some poo poo like a city and whatever to hopefully mollify them while also shunting them out of view, so it's not all THAT weird for the ringed city to have been mostly unknown of course they hadn't had the city in mind when ds1 was made, but, it doesn't come off as all that out there to me
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Apr 10, 2017 01:08
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You know what I really miss? Jumping under elevators to find cool secret areas. That just dropped from the sequels.
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Apr 10, 2017 01:13
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Johnny Joestar posted:gwyn was also freaked out by the pygmies' and cursed them + gave them some poo poo like a city and whatever to hopefully mollify them while also shunting them out of view, so it's not all THAT weird for the ringed city to have been mostly unknown Yeah, they were essentially hidden away by Gwyn and their history and contributions were never spoken of. I know I'm repeating myself, but it definitely feels like "gifted" in the description is a euphemism; in reality they were locked away at the end of the world and kept under tabs by the Gods. With this in mind, it makes sense that we've never heard or seen anything from them or the Ringed City. You're still free to consider it a cop-out that they wrote it this way though 
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Apr 10, 2017 01:15
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rumble in the bunghole posted:You know what I really miss? Jumping under elevators to find cool secret areas. That just dropped from the sequels. 3 has a ton of hidden mid-elevator areas though.
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Apr 10, 2017 01:18
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the lore in the souls games immediately took a hard left-turn into borderline disconnected nonsense in dark souls 2. looking for smart continuity and narrative sense in this game is about as futile as linking the fire or letting the fire fade, and oh my god it all makes sense. the series has its own dream-logic, which considering the first game's vibe was trying to replicate the experience of playing an rpg in a foreign language, is pretty apt
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Apr 10, 2017 01:24
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Vil posted:I'm racking my brain and can't actually think of any solid examples of this. There are times when you might have to make clever use of a bow (which the area kindly provides you with near the start) to hit a switch from a distance, or do a drop or maybe a jump to get to either safety or a place where you can then hit a switch. If you're out of arrows and don't have anything to toss, then you can get stuck. Whether that's a failure on the part of the player or game design is another question.
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Apr 10, 2017 01:25
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Having really mixed feelings on the first dlc so far. It's been a pretty cool area . Not boring I'll give it that. but I feel like it's just incredibly obnoxious. Like, so far the whole thing has felt like dark souls at its most trollish and it's loving relentless and grates my nerves. Like, annoying troll bullshit is fun once in a while but getting nailed by cheap bullshit every time I round a corner just sucks. In general it feels less fair and challenging and more just spiteful to the player. More so than the rest of the series.
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Apr 10, 2017 01:25
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SHISHKABOB posted:If you're out of arrows and don't have anything to toss, then you can get stuck. Whether that's a failure on the part of the player or game design is another question. Dark Sign out and go punch a dude to death until you can buy an arrow?
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Apr 10, 2017 01:38
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Nuebot posted:3 has a ton of hidden mid-elevator areas though. It's not the same if you're on top of the lift. Doesn't feel as suicidal.
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Apr 10, 2017 01:39
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Well, going into NG+2 to try to get my Plat 
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Apr 10, 2017 01:49
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Internet Kraken posted:Yep, so easily forgotten. That's why they were granted an entire massive city, Gwyn's first daughter, and all the other stuff never mentioned before the Ringed City DLC. I dunno, most of the goings-on of Gwyn's court seems to be mythic mystery to the majority of the population. The fact that there was a legendary city at the end of the world feels appropriate to the setting, and it's a nice nod to the themes of Dark Souls, of Gods bequething double-edged gifts. Consider the Pygmies don't seem to exist in the real world; is not the fact that they have been forgotten possibly due to the fact that they've been stuck in a city beyond space and time since the Age of Fire? Hell, Gwyn having a secret daughter is more of a baffling lore twist than that, and I'm honestly not really sure what her deal is, or what that eggshell was
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Apr 10, 2017 01:52
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I can accept the idea of the Ringed City being hidden away if there was some kind of hint, however small, towards its existence. Or anything saying that it was intentionally hidden from sight. But up until DLC 2, there is nothing. Then suddenly you meet two NPCs who tell you about the Ringed City and recall its exact purpose with perfect clarity and its like "what? the gently caress are you talking about? how do you know this?". It just didn't work for me at all. If it was supposed to be such a well hidden secret that over the course of 3 games nobody mentioned it, why do these two hollows seem to know everything about it?
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Apr 10, 2017 01:59
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Hell, Gwyn having a secret daughter is more of a baffling lore twist than that, and I'm honestly not really sure what her deal is, or what that eggshell was it is a bit left-field, but unsurprising to me that the Grand Patriarch of the Gods liked to get his gently caress on willy-nilly
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Apr 10, 2017 02:10
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What's the story with Doryhs Gnawing w/r/t the Luck star? I've never really done a bleed build before but I'm having a lot of fun using that miracle against bosses. Does levelling Luck increase the damage?
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Apr 10, 2017 02:27
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I think I've played too much DS3, even though I've put hundreds of hours into them I'm so bad at DS1 and DS2 now  Everything feels janky and wrong.I honestly didn't notice it that much while the games were current, but playing them side by side like this makes it incredibly apparent how much better Fromsoft has gotten at the animations and smoothness of gameplay (regardless of how much faster DS3 is). I really really hope they'll continue making games with gameplay like this even if Dark Souls is over, they've carved out a nice niche and they've gotten really good at it. Just... stop it with the console exclusives please.
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Apr 10, 2017 02:28
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Quantum of Phallus posted:What's the story with Doryhs Gnawing w/r/t the Luck star? I've never really done a bleed build before but I'm having a lot of fun using that miracle against bosses. Does levelling Luck increase the damage? I don't think Luck affects that spell, only bleed on weapons. If it did there's a fair chance you'd be able to bleed on one hit due to the huge amount of buildup it adds.
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Apr 10, 2017 02:37
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Quantum of Phallus posted:What's the story with Doryhs Gnawing w/r/t the Luck star? I've never really done a bleed build before but I'm having a lot of fun using that miracle against bosses. Does levelling Luck increase the damage? no. the bleed build up from the miracle isnt tied to anything as far as im aware. increasing faith only increases the dark damage it does. luck does nothing to it.
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Apr 10, 2017 02:37
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Also luck's contribution towards bleed is really really minimal anyways. The only real reason to level luck is to increase damage from a Hollow weapon, and then the slight increase in bleed is a mild side benefit.
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Apr 10, 2017 02:41
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IronicDongz posted:Also luck's contribution towards bleed is really really minimal anyways. The only real reason to level luck is to increase damage from a Hollow weapon, and then the slight increase in bleed is a mild side benefit. Way to link a year old video. As of the current patch you need a luck build and bleed infused weapons to bleed enemies fast.
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Apr 10, 2017 02:47
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Genocyber posted:Way to link a year old video. As of the current patch you need a luck build and bleed infused weapons to bleed enemies fast. So bleed infusion build is actually a thing now? I've never been a fan of constantly applying weapon buffs so I never did a carthus rouge build, but if bleed infusions are good now I'm more interested 
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Apr 10, 2017 02:50
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Its not just that bleed infusion got buffed but that carthus rogue got nerfed hard. Before you got better bleed build up and damage by using rogue on a hollow weapon. There was no reason to ever use the bleed infusion.
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Apr 10, 2017 02:57
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Internet Kraken posted:Yep, so easily forgotten. That's why they were granted an entire massive city, Gwyn's first daughter, and all the other stuff never mentioned before the Ringed City DLC. The ringed city is a quarentine zone. It's not supposed to be thought of, like the nameless king. But he was a big deal before a pariah so the fragments of his legend linger
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Apr 10, 2017 02:58
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