Magic the Gathering Appreciation Station

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Magic the Gathering Appreciation Station

Marketing New Brain: Apr 26, 2008

PJOmega posted:

Making "for fun" draft style decks for Kaladesh & Aether Revolt has really hammered home how utterly miserable the impact of vehicles was.

There is no color combination that isn't improved by Renegade Freighters and an Untethered Express.

In fact, have pushed colorless cards ever led to a good draft environment?

ROE, Ulamog's Crusher all day errday.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 03:21

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# ? May 15, 2024 11:17

Sickening: Jul 16, 2007; Black summer was the best summer.

BJPaskoff posted:

You shouldn't be putting dice on a card that doesn't have counters on it in the first place. If it was as bad as you said when I watched the match, I'd give him a slow play penalty.

He kept wanting to put dice on my gofy and I kept moving it off of it. I told him if he wanted to keep a visual to keep it on his side of things. The judge ruled in my favor and the judge call got a little out of control.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 03:22

C-Euro: Mar 20, 2010; Soiled Meat

Sickening posted:

Just so I can confirm, there is no game rule that requires goyf dice to be used when its in play correct? I had an opponent get into a really heated judge call with me because I refused to update the dice for goyf when his power/toughness changed. My opponent is the one who pulled out the dice and its my opponent who then failed to keep up with it. He would ask me how large goyf was so often it got to a point where I reading the card to him. I don't feel its my job to babysit the dice unless I choose to use the dice myself. At no time did I attempt to misrepresent the gamestate. He lost the match because he lost track of the fact that I use tarfire on a creature on his the and then squeaked by with exactly lethal after he chose not to block my goyf.

IMO this is the key detail here. If he's the one who put the die down to help himself and then failed to keep up, then it sucks for him but he's at fault. If you had been the one putting the die down then it would've been on you to keep up. At an FNM-level event I might have helped him keep up but at a larger tourney, and with him asking you about it a bunch, he should be able to take care of himself.

BJPaskoff posted:

You shouldn't be putting dice on a card that doesn't have counters on it in the first place. If it was as bad as you said when I watched the match, I'd give him a slow play penalty.

Guy at my store has a buddy with a woodworking shop who made him "Goyf dice", with sides that say 1/2, 2/3, 3/4 etc. They're pretty slick, I should see if I can a buy a couple off of his friend.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 03:32

Jabor: Jul 16, 2010; #1 Loser at SpaceChem

Sickening posted:

He kept wanting to put dice on my gofy and I kept moving it off of it. I told him if he wanted to keep a visual to keep it on his side of things. The judge ruled in my favor and the judge call got a little out of control.

Sounds like the judge had the right idea.

Assuming this was at FNM or whatever, you do have to tell him how big it is if he asks (and if you're using a dice yourself, you have the responsibility of keeping it accurate), but it's not your responsibility to make sure your opponent's dice is always up-to-date.

If you had updated the dice some of the time but not at that particular moment it would have been a more interesting discussion.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 03:32

Sickening: Jul 16, 2007; Black summer was the best summer.

Jabor posted:

Sounds like the judge had the right idea.

Assuming this was at FNM or whatever, you do have to tell him how big it is if he asks (and if you're using a dice yourself, you have the responsibility of keeping it accurate), but it's not your responsibility to make sure your opponent's dice is always up-to-date.

If you had updated the dice some of the time but not at that particular moment it would have been a more interesting discussion.

It was an IQ and it was comp rel. I had not touched the diced except to take it off my card. That is exactly why I don't use dice to begin with, because one you start or once you update the dice yourself you run into issues. I do however try to keep track of it in my head for when it matters, otherwise I got better poo poo to keep track of.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 03:34

Fingers McLongDong: Nov 30, 2005; not eromenos; Fun Shoe

Your opponent was a dumb baby. Personally I either set a die for myself off to the side showing the goyfs current power, or i set aside a card of each type fanned out in my graveyard. Regardless, it's his job to ask if he was the one representing the goyf with dice and he shouldn't be putting it on the card.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 03:39

suicidesteve: Jan 4, 2006; "Life is a maze. This is one of its dead ends.

Sickening posted:

Just so I can confirm, there is no game rule that requires goyf dice to be used when its in play correct? I had an opponent get into a really heated judge call with me because I refused to update the dice for goyf when his power/toughness changed. My opponent is the one who pulled out the dice and its my opponent who then failed to keep up with it. He would ask me how large goyf was so often it got to a point where I reading the card to him. I don't feel its my job to babysit the dice unless I choose to use the dice myself. At no time did I attempt to misrepresent the gamestate. He lost the match because he lost track of the fact that I use tarfire on a creature on his the and then squeaked by with exactly lethal after he chose not to block my goyf.

As has been said, at comp or higher you don't have to tell your opponent how big your Goyf is or represent it in any way. It makes the game much easier and more pleasant for everyone if you do answer these kinds of questions, but if they're being super :goonsay:

about it, screw 'em. If your opponent insists on using their die, you have no responsibility to update it for them. I don't know if they can get in trouble for misrepresenting the size of your Goyf - I suspect not - but it's 100% not your responsibility. If you use your own die, I'm pretty sure you do have to keep track of it. This is why using dice for Goyf size is bad. I see it on coverage all the time and it's just a terrible idea. Just figure it out when it's relevant.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 04:09

Sarmhan: Nov 1, 2011

suicidesteve posted:

As has been said, at comp or higher you don't have to tell your opponent how big your Goyf is or represent it in any way. It makes the game much easier and more pleasant for everyone if you do answer these kinds of questions, but if they're being super about it, screw 'em. If your opponent insists on using their die, you have no responsibility to update it for them. I don't know if they can get in trouble for misrepresenting the size of your Goyf - I suspect not - but it's 100% not your responsibility. If you use your own die, I'm pretty sure you do have to keep track of it. This is why using dice for Goyf size is bad. I see it on coverage all the time and it's just a terrible idea. Just figure it out when it's relevant.

They do it on coverage so people watching can know what size it is, since they may not have been watching the whole game and can't look at the graveyards at will.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 04:14

atelier morgan: Mar 11, 2003; super-scientific, ultra-gay; Lipstick Apathy

suicidesteve posted:

As has been said, at comp or higher you don't have to tell your opponent how big your Goyf is or represent it in any way. It makes the game much easier and more pleasant for everyone if you do answer these kinds of questions, but if they're being super about it, screw 'em. If your opponent insists on using their die, you have no responsibility to update it for them. I don't know if they can get in trouble for misrepresenting the size of your Goyf - I suspect not - but it's 100% not your responsibility. If you use your own die, I'm pretty sure you do have to keep track of it. This is why using dice for Goyf size is bad. I see it on coverage all the time and it's just a terrible idea. Just figure it out when it's relevant.

It's on coverage solely for the benefit of the viewers. Magic is a hard enough game to watch without a creature that somebody looking at stream absolutely cannot know what size it is (since they can't check the graveyards)

# ? Apr 10, 2017 04:14

moush: Aug 19, 2009; Rage Your Dream

Just ban Goyf, problem solved.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 04:15

gwrtheyrn: Oct 21, 2010; AYYYE DEEEEE DUBBALYOO DA-NYAAAAAH!

suicidesteve posted:

As has been said, at comp or higher you don't have to tell your opponent how big your Goyf is or represent it in any way. It makes the game much easier and more pleasant for everyone if you do answer these kinds of questions, but if they're being super about it, screw 'em. If your opponent insists on using their die, you have no responsibility to update it for them. I don't know if they can get in trouble for misrepresenting the size of your Goyf - I suspect not - but it's 100% not your responsibility. If you use your own die, I'm pretty sure you do have to keep track of it. This is why using dice for Goyf size is bad. I see it on coverage all the time and it's just a terrible idea. Just figure it out when it's relevant.

To be fair it is nice on coverage if they keep it up to date because casters having to figure out tarmogoyfs power and toughness on air is boring and dumb.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 04:16

suicidesteve: Jan 4, 2006; "Life is a maze. This is one of its dead ends.

gwrtheyrn posted:

To be fair it is nice on coverage if they keep it up to date because casters having to figure out tarmogoyfs power and toughness on air is boring and dumb.

I understand why they do it. The problem is that they usually just leave the players in charge of it when it's not their responsibility.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 04:31

LifeLynx: Feb 27, 2001; Dang so this is like looking over his shoulder in real-time; Grimey Drawer

C-Euro posted:

IMO this is the key detail here. If he's the one who put the die down to help himself and then failed to keep up, then it sucks for him but he's at fault. If you had been the one putting the die down then it would've been on you to keep up. At an FNM-level event I might have helped him keep up but at a larger tourney, and with him asking you about it a bunch, he should be able to take care of himself.

Guy at my store has a buddy with a woodworking shop who made him "Goyf dice", with sides that say 1/2, 2/3, 3/4 etc. They're pretty slick, I should see if I can a buy a couple off of his friend.

Yeah those are cool, but I wouldn't use them at anything but FNM/casual. Even then, you're adding a new element to the game, where it's suddenly the dice's "fault" for being wrong because someone forgot to update the dice, rather than a player just thinking "it was a 3/4 last turn, then he played and cracked a fetch". It's a similar problem to people who insist on putting a die on 1 to indicate that their Chandra that they just played used her +1. What are we going to do when she goes below her starting loyalty?

# ? Apr 10, 2017 04:43

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

BJPaskoff posted:

Yeah those are cool, but I wouldn't use them at anything but FNM/casual. Even then, you're adding a new element to the game, where it's suddenly the dice's "fault" for being wrong because someone forgot to update the dice, rather than a player just thinking "it was a 3/4 last turn, then he played and cracked a fetch". It's a similar problem to people who insist on putting a die on 1 to indicate that their Chandra that they just played used her +1. What are we going to do when she goes below her starting loyalty?

# ? Apr 10, 2017 04:49

C-Euro: Mar 20, 2010; Soiled Meat

BJPaskoff posted:

It's a similar problem to people who insist on putting a die on 1 to indicate that their Chandra that they just played used her +1. What are we going to do when she goes below her starting loyalty?

Now that, I don't understand at all. I saw someone do that a while ago and had the same thought, except I was on Mill which doesn't exactly have many way to decrease PW loyalty :goleft:

# ? Apr 10, 2017 04:56

myDad: Jan 20, 2010; ce n'est pas ma m�re; College Slice

BR Reanimator featuring Fury of the Horde

# ? Apr 10, 2017 05:08

Hellsau: Jan 14, 2010; NEVER FUCKING TAKE A NIGHT OFF CLAN WARS.

myDad posted:

BR Reanimator featuring Fury of the Horde

What's the benefit of Progenitus over Worldspine Wurm? Is it just Path protection?

# ? Apr 10, 2017 05:15

TheMaestroso: Nov 4, 2014; I must know your secrets.

AlternateNu posted:

Second deck was Sultai insanity. It was basically G/U splashing black for 2 Dinrova Horror, Morii, and Damnation. The deck also featured Craterhoof, Scooze, and Ulvenwald Tracker. So completely broken, holy poo poo. 10/10 would play again.

You seem to have managed the kind of magical manabase that managed to ruin me multiple times despite running an actually decent ratio of colors. It pains me every time. Still love the format, though.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 05:17

myDad: Jan 20, 2010; ce n'est pas ma m�re; College Slice

Hellsau posted:

What's the benefit of Progenitus over Worldspine Wurm? Is it just Path protection?

It can be used an alternate cost for Fury & Shoal

# ? Apr 10, 2017 05:17

Hellsau: Jan 14, 2010; NEVER FUCKING TAKE A NIGHT OFF CLAN WARS.

myDad posted:

It can be used an alternate cost for Fury & Shoal

I haven't read Fury of the Horde in ten years apparently, good stuff.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 05:20

Bugsy: Jul 15, 2004; I'm thumpin'. That's
why they call me
'Thumper'.; Slippery Tilde

Seems quite strong.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 05:57

Attorney at Funk: Jun 3, 2008; ...the person who says honestly that he despairs is closer to being cured than all those who are not regarded as despairing by themselves or others.

Interesting that it's "you may look" rather than "play with the top of your library revealed"

# ? Apr 10, 2017 05:58

Hellsau: Jan 14, 2010; NEVER FUCKING TAKE A NIGHT OFF CLAN WARS.

Attorney at Funk posted:

Interesting that it's "you may look" rather than "play with the top of your library revealed"

100% on board with that change. Keeping the top card of libraries revealed is super annoying.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 06:02

TheKingofSprings: Oct 9, 2012

Not dying to bolt is really nice and I really like the idea of playing that guy with Courser of Kruphix

E: Also it seems really nutty in Elves

TheKingofSprings fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Apr 10, 2017

# ? Apr 10, 2017 06:06

ZorajitZorajit: Sep 15, 2013; No static at all...

Bugsy posted:

Seems quite strong.

This art looks like some "Bible Friends" poo poo. This guy is totally about to tell me about Moses, or maybe read a list of begat's.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 06:07

Jabor: Jul 16, 2010; #1 Loser at SpaceChem

Kind of weird how that snake has bruises from forgetting about the spikes on its uniform.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 06:08

Hellsau: Jan 14, 2010; NEVER FUCKING TAKE A NIGHT OFF CLAN WARS.

I'm exceedingly annoyed that Nagas are "Naga [CLASS]" instead of "Snake [CLASS]" when Leonin are "Cat [CLASS]".

# ? Apr 10, 2017 06:13

JerryLee: Feb 4, 2005; THE RESERVED LIST! THE RESERVED LIST! I CANNOT SHUT UP ABOUT THE RESERVED LIST!

Hellsau posted:

I'm exceedingly annoyed that Nagas are "Naga [CLASS]" instead of "Snake [CLASS]" when Leonin are "Cat [CLASS]".

As I mentioned back several pages now, I'm tilted that jackals are now Jackals when Hound was a perfectly fine approximation.

If only because this dashes my hope of combining Amonkhet with Tarkir cards for doggo tribal

# ? Apr 10, 2017 06:16

Rinkles: Oct 24, 2010; What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?

Hellsau posted:

I'm exceedingly annoyed that Nagas are "Naga [CLASS]" instead of "Snake [CLASS]" when Leonin are "Cat [CLASS]".

Especially weird given the Orochi already are an anthropomorphization of snakes that retain their snakehood.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 06:34

Elyv: Jun 14, 2013

ZorajitZorajit posted:

This art looks like some "Bible Friends" poo poo. This guy is totally about to tell me about Moses, or maybe read a list of begat's.

This art is so bad it's funny, and that mountain lion is freaking the gently caress out.

...Why are there mountain lions in not-Egypt anyway

# ? Apr 10, 2017 06:41

Rinkles: Oct 24, 2010; What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?

Elyv posted:

This art is so bad it's funny, and that mountain lion is freaking the gently caress out.

...Why are there mountain lions in not-Egypt anyway

How do you know it's a mountain lion?

# ? Apr 10, 2017 06:43

TheKingofSprings: Oct 9, 2012

Elyv posted:

This art is so bad it's funny, and that mountain lion is freaking the gently caress out.

...Why are there mountain lions in not-Egypt anyway

Bolas gets bored and he needs effigies of the one guy that has hosed him up in the last 1000 years.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 06:44

Veyrall: Apr 23, 2010; The greatest poet this
side of the cyberpocalypse

Elyv posted:

...Why are there mountain lions in not-Egypt anyway

That's a normal lioness. Those are native to Africa. Mountain lions look similar, but it's not an art gently caress-up.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 06:46

Elyv: Jun 14, 2013

Veyrall posted:

That's a normal lioness. Those are native to Africa. Mountain lions look similar, but it's not an art gently caress-up.

Oops, my mistake. I still think the art is bad though.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 06:47

ZeroCount: Aug 12, 2013

He looks very chill which is good. Dude just wants to pet some animals

# ? Apr 10, 2017 07:03

Elyv: Jun 14, 2013

Liliana's Sleight(I assume the name is not this, but that's what the twitter thing says)

Enchantment
When ~ Enters the battlefield, create 2 2/2 Zombies.
Zombies you control get +1/+1

# ? Apr 10, 2017 07:03

Siivola: Dec 23, 2012

The shading and the focal length gimmick make it look like a 3D render.

I can't hate the naga's goofy grin tho. :3:

# ? Apr 10, 2017 07:04

Jabor: Jul 16, 2010; #1 Loser at SpaceChem

Elyv posted:

Liliana's Sleight(I assume the name is not this, but that's what the twitter thing says)

Enchantment
When ~ Enters the battlefield, create 2 2/2 Zombies.
Zombies you control get +1/+1

5 mana for two 3/3s? Even without the anthem that's a card you're happy to see in Limited, then add that it buffs other zombie tokens, a bunch of other playable creatures, anything you've embalmed...

# ? Apr 10, 2017 07:15

Hellsau: Jan 14, 2010; NEVER FUCKING TAKE A NIGHT OFF CLAN WARS.

Bugsy posted:

Seems quite strong.

This is going to make for an absolutely adorable SCG playmat.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 07:26

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# ? May 15, 2024 11:17

GoutPatrol: Oct 17, 2009; *Stupid Babby*

Siivola posted:

The shading and the focal length gimmick make it look like a 3D render.

I can't hate the naga's goofy grin tho.

Makes it looks like I'm playing Jambo Safari or something.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 07:45

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