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Vando posted:Can we use the anti-runway munitions on the Frogfoots or was that a no-go for some reason? I feel like we should use it if we can, dedicated anti-runway stuff would be so much more effective on the pavement it'd be stupid not to take it if available. Yes. We can use it. The Durandals that came with the Gripens were "lost" in transit. But any Frogfoot munitions is OK. Just be sure to clean all the cosmoline off.
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Apr 10, 2017 15:48
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Yooper posted:Yes. We can use it. Hmm, interesting. Bacarruda, is there any way we can make these fit into your plans? Like Yooper said, we don't need to completely destroy the runway, but a few bomb craters to make the J-20s crash on landing would be helpful.
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Apr 10, 2017 15:50
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I'm not too keen on using Vikhrs for this instead of bombs. The Vikhr has a HEAT warhead, and those don't tend to have any real fragmentation effect. Vando is right, we should be using the Su-25s for that role. Both Su-25s getting their anti-runway munitions on target will destroy one of the runways and both of our F-4s getting anti-runway Mjolnirs on target will take out just over half the other runway's health.
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Apr 10, 2017 15:51
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Unguided rockets almost always miss by design. The key is to only use them against targets that will be hurt by splash damage.
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Apr 10, 2017 16:10
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Unguided bombs and rockets fired in salvos are now impacting as "sticks" rather than treated as totally individual/indepedent impacts. So for example when weapon #1 impacts at coods X-Y the rest of the salvo will (CEP deviations aside) fall more or less on a line pattern starting from that first impact. This is particulatly important when attacking multiple-aimpoint facilities as it forces the attacking unit to "commit" to a specific aimpoint (straddle it with weapon impacts) and just hope for collateral damage on the other aimpoints.
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Apr 10, 2017 16:25
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This is the new Gripen-E, but still a very cool graphic.
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Apr 10, 2017 16:29
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I wouldn't worry too much about the 500SP being unguided, it's a cluster bomb so just let's not miss by too much and we'll be fine  Interestingly other literature refers to them as being a concrete-penetrator, so could we use them against the hardened targets here or is the target type of "runway" in the game db going to limit us, has anyone tested this?
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Apr 10, 2017 16:38
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Man, standoff weapons almost feel like cheating. On the other hand, not getting shot at is great and Eight Airforce would have given an arm and a leg for some standoff capability.
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Apr 10, 2017 16:43
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They feel that way against targets that can't defend, but they're essential versus peer-level enemies. Many will still get swatted from the sky by IADS if you use them clumsily still and ignore terrain masking.
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Apr 10, 2017 16:50
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I've added our full asset list to the front page of this thread. All links there go to Baloogans wiki. I'll keep that updated so we all know what we've got. And so you guys can keep me honest!
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Apr 10, 2017 17:34
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Yooper posted:I've added our full asset list to the front page of this thread. All links there go to Baloogans wiki. I'll keep that updated so we all know what we've got. And so you guys can keep me honest! Didn't we get a pair of Hawk 209s?
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Apr 10, 2017 17:41
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CBJamo posted:Didn't we get a pair of Hawk 209s? Yup! (And drones) It's all on their now. Yooper fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Apr 10, 2017 |
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Apr 10, 2017 17:47
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Davin Valkri posted:Bacarruda, is there any way we can make these fit into your plans? Like Yooper said, we don't need to completely destroy the runway, but a few bomb craters to make the J-20s crash on landing would be helpful. The dilemma that we face is that we don't know how prepared the Chinese strike will be by the time we come over the target. If they are still preparing (arming, fueling), etc. then hitting the support facilities will cancel, delay, or heavily degrade any strike they can make. That makes hitting the easiest targets the best option. In order, we'd go after: ammo, fuel, runways, parked planes. If their strikers are already gassed up and armed, then hitting the support facilities will only stop them from making a second strike -- Hired Goons HQ will still get plastered in their planned attack. In that case, the only way to stop the strike is to kill the planes on the ground and/or badly crater both the runway and the main taxiway (which can be used as an emergency runway). We have no way of knowing which will be the case. And it's very much and either-or proposition. If the Phantoms focus on the runway and carry STABO Mjolners, then we can't bring the heavy 2000lb Paveway bombs needed to kill the underground fuel tank. So they will still have gas for a strike. But even if we get perfect Mjolner hits on one runway, there's still a second runway. And that means we either need Gripens or the Frogfoots to kill it. So, when it comes to targeting, we have four choices. Three sensible, one insane. 1: Only focus on their support. Leave the runways intact. 2: Go after support, but have the Su-25s each drop their grand total of eight BETAB-500 bombs* on the runway and the taxiway to try and do 25-30% damage to each one. 3: Focus on the runways, and do minimal attacks on their support. Phantoms drop STABO Mjolners (our Gripens don't have this variant), one focuses on the runway, the other hits the taxiway. The Su-25s also hit the runway. The Gripens go after the air defences and support facilities. The light strikers go after parked planes. 4. The Entebbe-Operation Mikado option. We kill every SAM and AA gun we can find and every fighter that can fly. Then, we send in our transport loaded to the gills with Indian Volunteers (re: Indian Para-Commandos who've left their shoulder patches behind) and we land them on the runway, drop them off, and then we get out of dodge. They block the runway with some truck or something and hold until relieved. We send som CAS East to clear the way for a rapid TLA advance. It pains me to say it, but Option 3 (runway strike) is the best bet. It lets us shut them down if they are ready or still prepping. *You can see the BETAB-500s in action. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQKRpK76gUo Yooper posted:I'd like your guys thoughts on how much info to give you. I don't want to give too much narrative away but I don't want you guys making the wrong decision because either the game mechanic is groggish or because we don't know penetration statistic on some obscure weapons system. On one hand I could say "Runway X needs 3 bombs to kill it," but I'm kind of building the missions for you then. But on the other if a facility is either really hard to kill (underground gas tanks) you'd probably know this as professional ex-military pilots. Give us the info that experienced pilots, ordnance folks, and operations officers would know (or at least would think they'd know). Give us a range for what might be needed to do the job. E.g. "if the runway is extra-thick like Joe here thinks it might be, we'd need 3-5 bombs to really take it out." Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Apr 10, 2017 |
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Apr 10, 2017 18:29
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 The Sperwer now travels underground. Bacarruda posted:Give us the info that experienced pilots, ordnance folks, and operations officers would know (or at least would think they'd know). Give us a range for what might be needed to do the job. E.g. "if the runway is extra-thick like Joe here thinks it might be, we'd need 3-5 bombs to really take it out." OK. I can handle that. So far I think the conversation is on the right path.
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Apr 10, 2017 18:41
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The Sperwer really is intended only for armies to tow along and launch for tactical reconnaissance. It really isn't suitable for us.
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Apr 10, 2017 18:42
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Quinntan posted:The Sperwer really is intended only for armies to tow along and launch for tactical reconnaissance. It really isn't suitable for us. Seems it's truck launchable though at least, so no runway concerns. I could totally see it being useful, but it'd have to be launched early in an operation so the intel it gives can be dissected and used by the time the flyboys are up.
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Apr 10, 2017 18:46
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Hey Yooper, can we point out the difference in ramifications between popping the runway while the Chinese superbirds are up and making them ditch, popping the runways so they can't get out of the area, and breaking the ammo so they can operate freely but still can get out? After all, why get paid for removing those planes from the theater when we can get paid for removing them from the theater by forcing them to ditch or stranding them where they can be hit, which is surely worth extra? We don't get paid for effort unless it's needed to get us to show up in the first place, we get paid for results. xthetenth fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Apr 10, 2017 |
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Apr 10, 2017 19:31
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What does the runway's "HP" actually stand for? Is it a sliding scale on how badly damaged a runway is or is it a binary thing where >0 is "fully functional" and 0 is "non-functional". Looking at the videos and photos we don't actually need to destroy that much tarmac to make the runway functionally useless in the short term (though easily repaired), but I don't know the game models it.
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Apr 10, 2017 19:35
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I am excited to hear that our drones are so advanced that they can move through both thin air and solid ground with equal ease.
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Apr 10, 2017 19:38
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Wait a goddamn minute. If we can strand the J-20s at Lhasa as the Indians storm the place, they're gonna capture the jets. That's certainly worth more than 150mil.
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Apr 10, 2017 19:39
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I doubt the Chinese would just leave their stealth fighters intact for the Tibetans to take. Anything that might be left at Lhasa when it's retaken will be a burned out wreck
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Apr 10, 2017 19:43
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CBJamo posted:Wait a goddamn minute. If we can strand the J-20s at Lhasa as the Indians storm the place, they're gonna capture the jets. That's certainly worth more than 150mil.
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Apr 10, 2017 19:44
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Still, they might get some advanced technology out of it.
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Apr 10, 2017 19:44
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Z the IVth posted:What does the runway's "HP" actually stand for? Other scenarios often set "Runway < 50% = cannot operate, but can be repaired," but I'm not sure if that's a scenario by scenario setting or a fixed setting.
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Apr 10, 2017 19:46
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CBJamo posted:Wait a goddamn minute. If we can strand the J-20s at Lhasa as the Indians storm the place, they're gonna capture the jets. That's certainly worth more than 150mil. The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Games > Let's Play! > Strike Command : The Commandeering Thanks for the setup. I really really want to know how much Entebbe for fun and profit would be worth now.
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Apr 10, 2017 19:49
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Quinntan posted:The Sperwer really is intended only for armies to tow along and launch for tactical reconnaissance. It really isn't suitable for us.
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Apr 10, 2017 19:49
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Like what? If you torch an airframe I doubt there's going to be much that can be salvaged from it.
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Apr 10, 2017 19:51
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Cathode Raymond posted:I am excited to hear that our drones are so advanced that they can move through both thin air and solid ground with equal ease. Weaponized graboids would really take this fictional universe to the next level imo
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Apr 10, 2017 19:52
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Quinntan posted:Like what? If you torch an airframe I doubt there's going to be much that can be salvaged from it. Maybe a smal piece of fuselage with stealth technology. Maybe some manuals aren't completly burned and cam be used for intelligence or at the very least a nice trophy for the firemantle 
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Apr 10, 2017 20:00
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What would be the nearest airport outside of Lhasa where the Chinese could base any planes out of?
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Apr 10, 2017 20:00
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Stago Lego posted:Maybe a smal piece of fuselage with stealth technology. Maybe some manuals aren't completly burned and cam be used for intelligence or at the very least a nice trophy for the firemantle Idk, radar absorbent material itself isn't all that difficult a problem and lots of people got samples of what was at the time the best that was around after the Serbs shot down an F-117 in 1999 and have used that to jump start their own domestic RAM coatings. Manuals would be of a bit more use but, if they aren't destroyed by us, they would be destroyed by the Chinese before they leave.
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Apr 10, 2017 20:05
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aphid_licker posted:Weaponized graboids would really take this fictional universe to the next level imo You're right, and I can't help but feel like turning our drones into underground anti-runway drillbombs might eventually be the easiest solution to this and other enemy runway problems. But for now I like the idea of dropping the cluster bombs to ding up the runway, bringing bunker busters to wreck the fuel tanks, and bringing enough armament to destroy the flimsy ammo structures but not bending over backwards to bring enough to destroy more hardened buildings in the off chance that the Chinese built new ammo bunkers. I suppose if the Chinese strike force is fueled and ready to go it's like Bacarruda said, we just try and dent the runway and wreck planes on the ground and make peace with the fact that the ones that make it into the air are basically beyond our capabilities to deal with, but that's what we get for attacking a great power's commercial shipping. All in all, I'd say things are going pretty smoothly, and I have absolute confidence that some of our pilots will survive this mission.
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Apr 10, 2017 20:14
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I was under the impression that the bulk of the planes won't be at this airport because of the Indian distraction.
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Apr 10, 2017 20:18
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xthetenth posted:Hey Yooper, can we point out the difference in ramifications between popping the runway while the Chinese superbirds are up and making them ditch, popping the runways so they can't get out of the area, and breaking the ammo so they can operate freely but still can get out? If we can tear up the runway to the point that the J-20's have to ditch it'll be a big payout for us. Performance bonus and all. If they land, but can't take off again, like you guys said, the Chinese will pack them with explosives, WP, whatever, and torch them. Still a nice little bonus. Destroying the ammo bunker is a safe bet for us that prevents the re-arming of the potential strike, if they get off the ground. Big, big, big if. Near as we can tell once the Chinese clear the airspace with the J-20's the attack on us will launch. In a perfect world we catch them with their pants down, poo poo up the place, and they can't get birds in the air. It's likely they'll attempt to divert to an emergency airfield Dangxiong Airbase. That place is even shittier than our forward base and will barely get them back to a proper refit base.
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Apr 10, 2017 20:21
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The game has a separate notion of if a Runway is operational, which is related to the Hitpoints left. I think it's hard coded in the game but I can' t say for sure. It seems like if you could put a single penetator 2000lb bomb smack dab in the middle of the runway, that it would be unusable for at least a half an hour. Especially if the rest of the airfield is still under attack after that. Although I guess if the game thinks its still operational then enemy AI planes will take off just fine. How long of a time window do we have to keep it shut down for before the Indian troops arrive?
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Apr 10, 2017 20:23
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Yooper, does Lhasa have two runways like the irl one does?
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Apr 10, 2017 20:45
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Quinntan posted:Yooper, does Lhasa have two runways like the irl one does?  Yes, two runways.
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Apr 10, 2017 20:47
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Thanks. Welp, we've got our work cut out for us.
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Apr 10, 2017 20:49
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Quinntan posted:Idk, radar absorbent material itself isn't all that difficult a problem and lots of people got samples of what was at the time the best that was around after the Serbs shot down an F-117 in 1999 and have used that to jump start their own domestic RAM coatings. Manuals would be of a bit more use but, if they aren't destroyed by us, they would be destroyed by the Chinese before they leave. Fair enough, I just hoped it would create some bonus points/money with the Indian goverment. Or even capture a few for ourself.
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Apr 10, 2017 20:51
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Why am I suddenly wondering if we can entebbe their backup airbase under the cover of enough jamming that we might have a chance of getting their jets to land there?
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Apr 10, 2017 20:55
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