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I mean there's 4 lanes with 5 champions. Someone's gonna have to share. edit: Won a 50 minute game today 
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Apr 10, 2017 19:56
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I think the problem is it's hard for an individual to experiment with off meta poo poo without ruining the game for at least 4 other people (up to 9 if the enemy team considers total stomps a waste of time too) but modern e-gaming is also sorta set up in a way where it's actually hard to find people to consistently play with cause you don't build the same sense of community you got in days of past with servers/channels. If you're not being a dick you can really only try truly egregious meta breaking stuff in a 5 man of people who want to do stuff like that but I'd say it's p uncommon for those sorts of groups to form.
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Apr 10, 2017 19:59
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Teikanmi posted:I mean there's 4 lanes with 5 champions. Someone's gonna have to share. Never understood this, personally. Why not just have 4-man teams? Or 6-man teams and 2 lanes share.
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Apr 10, 2017 20:42
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112J exists in the first place because it's a very efficient way to distribute team resources and have a good composition. Other setups tend to just get outscaled by it, for example with double jungle you're banking on getting enough of an early lead to make up for whatever inefficiency you've created e.g. your ADC having to lane 1v2 and getting zoned off the wave and being behind on items.
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Apr 10, 2017 21:02
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Tales of Woe posted:112J exists in the first place because it's a very efficient way to distribute team resources and have a good composition. Other setups tend to just get outscaled by it, for example with double jungle you're banking on getting enough of an early lead to make up for whatever inefficiency you've created e.g. your ADC having to lane 1v2 and getting zoned off the wave and being behind on items. I get the feeling whenever someone suggests an alternate to 112J, they don't mean it as in matching Other Thing vs. Existing 112J; rather, they envision Other Thing vs. Other Thing, like how it's 112J vs. 112J right now.
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Apr 10, 2017 21:04
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Nunu is back baby!!!
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Apr 10, 2017 21:03
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You'd see a lot more variations in lane if champs could 1v2 without getting completely crushed.
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Apr 10, 2017 21:12
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I think champs that are as strong as two champs is a good idea, but only if I'm the one champ and not the two champs.
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Apr 10, 2017 21:13
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kingcobweb posted:Nunu is back baby!!! Yay
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Apr 10, 2017 21:17
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Addamere posted:I get the feeling whenever someone suggests an alternate to 112J, they don't mean it as in matching Other Thing vs. Existing 112J; rather, they envision Other Thing vs. Other Thing, like how it's 112J vs. 112J right now. Right, but the point is that the structure of the game would have to change in some way for Other Thing to beat 112J. More champs who can 1v2 farm a lane might do it, but then you have a game full of Ziggs and we've seen how miserable the game gets when Ziggs is good.
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Apr 10, 2017 21:17
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Addamere posted:I get the feeling whenever someone suggests an alternate to 112J, they don't mean it as in matching Other Thing vs. Existing 112J; rather, they envision Other Thing vs. Other Thing, like how it's 112J vs. 112J right now. They have that. It's called ARAM/Twisted Treeline/ Snark aside, that would require both teams to agree to play that variant, which basically requires another queue and comes with its own set of issues.
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Apr 10, 2017 21:24
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Pop-o-Matic Trouble posted:You'd see a lot more variations in lane if champs could 1v2 without getting completely crushed. Play Illaoi, be the garbage you want to see in the world.
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Apr 10, 2017 21:25
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No ones letting my illidoi go botlane. Like, smite support nunu is a cool idea that doesn't work because your 60000 game jinx main is going to get absolutely murdered by any botlane pair. Your 1v2 capable dude doesn't have to be an adc, but until people get used to 1v2 lanes, it kinda does.
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Apr 10, 2017 21:40
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I can see a low economy wave clear capable mage 1v2ing bottom, but there's not enough economy in the Jungle to double jungle successfully.
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Apr 10, 2017 23:29
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kingcobweb posted:Nunu is back baby!!! Why God, why? What did we do to deserve this horror?!? 
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Apr 10, 2017 23:51
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Will ump is cool and good.
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Apr 10, 2017 23:54
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Hey I'm new to lol and still getting used to everything, but isn't the reason you put two players in bot lane is if there was just one, the enemy team would just gank them and take dragon? So if you wanted to break up the 112J meta, wouldn't they need to make killing the Herald more worthwhile?
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Apr 11, 2017 01:36
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Triple-Kan posted:Hey I'm new to lol and still getting used to everything, but isn't the reason you put two players in bot lane is if there was just one, the enemy team would just gank them and take dragon? So if you wanted to break up the 112J meta, wouldn't they need to make killing the Herald more worthwhile? If the Herald's ever better then you just get 211J Riot currently actively avoids having the map be symmetrical objective-wise because a lot of people really hate watching lane swap openings in pro play
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Apr 11, 2017 01:43
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the reason that its good to have the 1-1-j-2 lanes we've always had is that any time adcs get viable it makes a lot of people lose their mind, and then they make adcs total garbage and it makes me personally miserable, but i actually enjoy the challenge secretly so
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Apr 11, 2017 03:38
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Addamere posted:Never understood this, personally. Why not just have 4-man teams? Or 6-man teams and 2 lanes share. 4-man teams would be bad because there are upwards of a dozen champs that are completely worthless in a solo lane or jungle, their entire identity and playstyle is oriented around helping a partner or team for the entire game. Sure, you could overhaul all of those characters from the ground up but then you're alienating a massive section of the playerbase to appeal to a significantly smaller minority who wants change for undefined reasons.
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Apr 11, 2017 05:00
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Pop-o-Matic Trouble posted:No ones letting my illidoi go botlane. Here is my stunning proof that it does work. One match among silvers/golds is enough for proof, right? All I did was help Lee get started in the jungle by using chomp and smite on the first two camps, giving him bloodlust, then went to safeguard our adc for a bit before I started to roam with Lee. http://imgur.com/a/NEbQF Heh... case closed. 
Gortarius fucked around with this message at 11:56 on Apr 11, 2017 |
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Apr 11, 2017 07:05
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An 11 game losing streak is good, right? ff20 last 2 too.
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Apr 11, 2017 07:23
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I like AP Kog mid
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Apr 11, 2017 08:36
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I mean from what I recall of professional 1v2 lanes, which have existed a few times, you get a renekton or a shen scraping up farm while cowering under their turret for 10 mins and it's not exciting to watch at all and just becomes a question of which jungler can swing into the lane with the duo and help 3 man the turret fastest, after which the solo farms under his tier 2 turret and the duo doesn't go past the river because it isn't safe and please kill me watching non interactive euro lane swaps is like watching paint dry.
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Apr 11, 2017 13:23
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The Shortest Path posted:4-man teams would be bad because there are upwards of a dozen champs that are completely worthless in a solo lane or jungle, their entire identity and playstyle is oriented around helping a partner or team for the entire game. Alternately, those champions could have just not been introduced in the first place?
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Apr 11, 2017 13:23
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Decided to make a new account named after my SA username and the first game it lets me queue for PVP (apparently you have to be Level 3 now to do so?) is against some Level 30 bronze tryhard Yasuo with the High Noon skin who mocks everyone in all chat for being terrible and in the post-game lobby is all like "you act like I have an advantage" when told that dunking on people with Level 3 accounts is a dick move. But for real, what is the logic behind League of Legends punishing newbies by not letting them have access to masteries, runes, and spells? Like, with the exception of I guess Nunu you can't even jungle without Smite and if "should Flash exist?" is a point of discussion in the League meta now as it has been in years past then I think we can all definitely agree it should not exist in games where everyone else doesn't have a chance to pick it. Holy loving poo poo gently caress that shithead.
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Apr 11, 2017 14:08
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Addamere posted:Decided to make a new account named after my SA username and the first game it lets me queue for PVP (apparently you have to be Level 3 now to do so?) is against some Level 30 bronze tryhard Yasuo with the High Noon skin who mocks everyone in all chat for being terrible and in the post-game lobby is all like "you act like I have an advantage" when told that dunking on people with Level 3 accounts is a dick move. But for real, what is the logic behind League of Legends punishing newbies by not letting them have access to masteries, runes, and spells? Like, with the exception of I guess Nunu you can't even jungle without Smite and if "should Flash exist?" is a point of discussion in the League meta now as it has been in years past then I think we can all definitely agree it should not exist in games where everyone else doesn't have a chance to pick it. Holy loving poo poo gently caress that shithead. that guy was so bad that the matchmaking system assessed his level to be around that of a level 3 player with no runes and masteries. i think that says it all really
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Apr 11, 2017 14:11
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Addamere posted:Decided to make a new account named after my SA username and the first game it lets me queue for PVP (apparently you have to be Level 3 now to do so?) is against some Level 30 bronze tryhard Yasuo with the High Noon skin who mocks everyone in all chat for being terrible and in the post-game lobby is all like "you act like I have an advantage" when told that dunking on people with Level 3 accounts is a dick move. But for real, what is the logic behind League of Legends punishing newbies by not letting them have access to masteries, runes, and spells? Like, with the exception of I guess Nunu you can't even jungle without Smite and if "should Flash exist?" is a point of discussion in the League meta now as it has been in years past then I think we can all definitely agree it should not exist in games where everyone else doesn't have a chance to pick it. Holy loving poo poo gently caress that shithead. Sounds like you're pretty mad, have you considered getting less mad at a video game and it's player base?
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Apr 11, 2017 14:11
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mistaya posted:I mean from what I recall of professional 1v2 lanes, which have existed a few times, you get a renekton or a shen scraping up farm while cowering under their turret for 10 mins and it's not exciting to watch at all and just becomes a question of which jungler can swing into the lane with the duo and help 3 man the turret fastest, after which the solo farms under his tier 2 turret and the duo doesn't go past the river because it isn't safe and please kill me watching non interactive euro lane swaps is like watching paint dry. Yeah and playing it is loving terrible, because now players are getting a lot more comfortable with turret aggro juggling. It gets so much worse if you're melee than ranged but no, I don't think anyone clamors for that poo poo
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Apr 11, 2017 14:14
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Luna Was Here posted:Sounds like you're pretty mad, have you considered getting less mad at a video game and it's player base? let them rant, it's good for the soul.  but seriously, all random summoner rift is so bad and so lazy. Give me the pirate game mode, I want to try the new items again.
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Apr 11, 2017 14:32
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Tired Moritz posted:let them rant, it's good for the soul. i wish they would bring that back. had lots of fun turning my minion wave into 6 mad football hooligans
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Apr 11, 2017 14:37
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Tired Moritz posted:let them rant, it's good for the soul. Addamere posted:But for real, what is the logic behind League of Legends punishing newbies by not letting them have access to masteries, runes, and spells? Like, with the exception of I guess Nunu you can't even jungle without Smite and if "should Flash exist?" is a point of discussion in the League meta now as it has been in years past then I think we can all definitely agree it should not exist in games where everyone else doesn't have a chance to pick it.
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Apr 11, 2017 14:47
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Addamere posted:Alternately, those champions could have just not been introduced in the first place? Not sarcastic, at that point maybe consider just playing a different MOBA? Like discussing how adc bot doesn't need to be a constant is one thing but at the point where you're like "if we just remove an entire class of champion and a defined role and change the number of players" then probably you'd be better served looking elsewhere. Riot has been nothing but transparent about their goals for the game to follow a meta and their balancing being based on it. They have had alternative modes before and conclusively shown they don't want to or can't put in the effort to support them, as evidenced by the death of dominion and the vastly smaller amount of balance fixes for TT.
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Apr 11, 2017 14:48
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fair point
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Apr 11, 2017 14:50
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they wanted to give a sense of progression and it's now crippling the ease of entry of the game. hopefully, they'll just remove it soon and buff up the mastery system.
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Apr 11, 2017 14:50
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Tired Moritz posted:they wanted to give a sense of progression and it's now crippling the ease of entry of the game. hopefully, they'll just remove it soon and buff up the mastery system. "You have to buy champions over time instead of having access to all of them at the start like in Dota 2" wasn't enough? Especially since they added Champion Mastery, one would think that would be enough. I hope you're right.
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Apr 11, 2017 15:06
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Addamere posted:"You have to buy champions over time instead of having access to all of them at the start like in Dota 2" wasn't enough? Especially since they added Champion Mastery, one would think that would be enough. I hope you're right. It was different when league first launched. When it originally cost money, this was a good idea because the idea of progress to a new character is what kept the game from outright dying if it wasn't good. There was like 40 or so champions at this time so the idea want outrageous, but now that we're at 120 or whatever and half of them are priced at the highest tier of ip is where it gets ridiculous.
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Apr 11, 2017 15:56
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Luna Was Here posted:It was different when league first launched. When it originally cost money, this was a good idea because the idea of progress to a new character is what kept the game from outright dying if it wasn't good. There was like 40 or so champions at this time so the idea want outrageous, but now that we're at 120 or whatever and half of them are priced at the highest tier of ip is where it gets ridiculous. I know it's not really comparable in terms of either audience or release date, but my go-to response for this kind of discussion is "Dota 2 released with 100 champions and didn't do that".
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Apr 11, 2017 16:07
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Kassadin
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Apr 11, 2017 16:22
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Addamere posted:I know it's not really comparable in terms of either audience or release date, but my go-to response for this kind of discussion is "Dota 2 released with 100 champions and didn't do that". Dota 2 is a prestige product for a very bad company that has a massive source of income outside of making games
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Apr 11, 2017 17:20
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