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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Scry 2 is incredibly powerful, because it lets you tuck a card you don't like and lets you know your next draw. Scry 1 only lets you do one of those at a time. And you can set up her 0 by putting a different card above the thing you want to slam down. She's entirely valid as just +2 until ultimate, or as setting up her 0 repeatedly. That sort of versatility is great in a card. The flexibility really makes it great. It's a solid and versatile card selection / advantage engine that can also just be "6UG sorcery - target player loses 10 life" if you top-deck it late in the game.
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Apr 11, 2017 20:36
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New janky combo in modern thanks to the new desert land: https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/64rxsz/thanks_to_the_power_of_the_desert_we_have_a_new/
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Apr 11, 2017 20:37
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TheKingofSprings posted:Bant Company almost certainly wants Nissa as a 1-2 of You keep saying this and I'm not sure why. I'd be curious to hear your reasons why. I don't see how it fits greatly into the game plan or helps win where something else wouldn't and I'm not sure what it would replace. Seems a little inefficient in modern. I guess you could cast it for x=3 on turn 3 and then use the zero ability to start generating card advantage but spending 5 mana on something that will get abrupt decayed doesn't seem good.
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Apr 11, 2017 20:40
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Scry 2 is really really good and Scry 2 next turn draw a card and add some mana to your mana pool is also good.
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Apr 11, 2017 20:45
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Nissa preordering at around 40 bucks. More than Gideon. Rhonas is 20.
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Apr 11, 2017 20:44
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Hysterical preorders are hysterical.
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Apr 11, 2017 20:47
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If I have to find a defect in Rhonas, is that on an empty board he is completely useless. The other gods can still do their things and work towards their own activation. Rhonas NEEDS the aid of another spell to be alive.
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Apr 11, 2017 20:59
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Nissa seems very powerful. I think people are under-valuing the fact that you can dump extra mana in her to give her a little bit of a loyalty cushion. Her +1 is very nearly 'draw a card' and her 0 is often much better than that. Nissa will likely be a format staple. I have been very wrong on Walker eval before (I thought flip Gideon was better than flip Jace), so we'll have to see.
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Apr 11, 2017 21:02
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YggdrasilTM posted:If I have to find a defect in Rhonas, is that on an empty board he is completely useless. The other gods can still do their things and work towards their own activation. Rhonas NEEDS the aid of another spell to be alive. So does Heart of Kiran... Eela6 posted:Nissa seems very powerful. I think people are under-valuing the fact that you can dump extra mana in her to give her a little bit of a loyalty cushion. Her +1 is very nearly 'draw a card' and her 0 is often much better than that. It's very hard for a Gold walker to be a format staple... I do agree that she's strong though.
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Apr 11, 2017 21:03
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YggdrasilTM posted:If I have to find a defect in Rhonas, is that on an empty board he is completely useless. The other gods can still do their things and work towards their own activation. Rhonas NEEDS the aid of another spell to be alive. Or a manland. Wandering Fumarole does the trick without any boosting.
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Apr 11, 2017 21:09
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mcmagic posted:So does Heart of Kiran... I'm not saying that he is no good, he IS good, but the need of another creature is his weak point. YggdrasilTM fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Apr 11, 2017 |
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Apr 11, 2017 21:14
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Fingers McLongDong posted:You keep saying this and I'm not sure why. I'd be curious to hear your reasons why. I don't see how it fits greatly into the game plan or helps win where something else wouldn't and I'm not sure what it would replace. Seems a little inefficient in modern. I guess you could cast it for x=3 on turn 3 and then use the zero ability to start generating card advantage but spending 5 mana on something that will get abrupt decayed doesn't seem good. Gentlemen. Bant Eldrazi Scry 2 is pretty much what the deck wants, if you don't want to gamble on a land or mana dork on turn 2. I have Dromoka's Command and Qasali Pridemage in my flex slots. I just now for the first time read her ultimate. Yikes. She's seems highly plausible in modern to me. Edit: gently caress it, preordered a set for 84. No regrets! Well, plenty of regrets, but this is not one! Edit 2: Does Company run 8 dorks? Tubgoat fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Apr 11, 2017 |
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Apr 11, 2017 21:20
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Sampatrick posted:You really can't afford to have a card that does nothing except for scry 2. Would you really pay 1UG: Scry 2, Fog? If the same card said 6UG: smack someone in the face for 10, or 3UG: Scry 2, rip that Verdurous Gearhulk for free next turn, all at the same time? Probably.
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Apr 11, 2017 21:23
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Tubgoat posted:Gentlemen. You might be right. Giving Bant Eldrazi some way to improve consistency and card advantage in a long game when they don't go TKS into Reality Smasher seems like something the deck wants. That's basically how I won games when I played Jund against Eldrazi. Either their draw was rear end and I was able to run them over before they could deploy their late game threats or they stuck their two big threats early while I had Terminates in hand and ran out of cards.
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Apr 11, 2017 21:28
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mcmagic posted:It's very hard for a Gold walker to be a format staple... I do agree that she's strong though. I don't agree. There have been plenty of 2 or 3 colored format staples. A lot depends on context and the mana base available. Standard is so messed up right now it is hard to make real predictions. I'm excited to find out! Plus, unbeatable snake God aside, amonkhet looks like an exciting limited format. Ed: Siege Rhino is more "format defining" than "format staple" Eela6 fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Apr 11, 2017 |
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Apr 11, 2017 21:31
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ThePeavstenator posted:That's basically how I won games when I played Jund against Eldrazi. Either their draw was rear end and I was able to run them over before they could deploy their late game threats or they stuck their two big threats early while I had Terminates in hand and ran out of cards. Yeah, the problems of Bant Eladrazi are 1) not enough ramping. Their creatures cost so much! 2) too much flooding. To enable their creatures they run A LOT of lands. 3) running out of cards. True, there is Ancient Stirring, but it's just one card for another card, you will need another topdeck next turn.
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Apr 11, 2017 21:33
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If 2WB sorin is above the bar for format staple then yeah this will be too.
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Apr 11, 2017 21:34
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Eela6 posted:I don't agree. There have been plenty of 2 or 3 colored format staples. Siege Rhino, Crackling Doom, Abzhan Charm, Ghost Dad, 2WB Sorin.... He said 'gold walkers' and sorin and AV way back in the day are the only ones that come to mind
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Apr 11, 2017 21:39
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Strong gold 'walkers include Ajani Vengeant, Ashiok, Dack Fayden, Kiora CW, Nahiri, Ral Zarek, Saheeli (currently, anyway), Sarkhan Vol, Sorin LoI, Tezzeret AoB, Venser, Vraska, and Xenagos. I have no idea about "format staple" status, though, so be welcome to disregard most of these as necessary.
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Apr 11, 2017 21:56
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Sorin, Solemn Visitor was quite good. I played a lot of copies of it in Standard. I play it as a 1-of in Modern too in Abzan. Obviously it wasn't a staple, but I really enjoyed playing the card.
Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Apr 11, 2017 |
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Apr 11, 2017 21:59
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TheMaestroso posted:Strong gold 'walkers include Ajani Vengeant, Ashiok, Dack Fayden, Kiora CW, Nahiri, Ral Zarek, Saheeli (currently, anyway), Sarkhan Vol, Sorin LoI, Tezzeret AoB, Venser, Vraska, and Xenagos. Also Domri Rade
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Apr 11, 2017 22:00
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TheMaestroso posted:Strong gold 'walkers include Ajani Vengeant, Ashiok, Dack Fayden, Kiora CW, Nahiri, Ral Zarek, Saheeli (currently, anyway), Sarkhan Vol, Sorin LoI, Tezzeret AoB, Venser, Vraska, and Xenagos. Lots of walkers there and only 1 of them I think is reasonable to call a format staple. Ajani Vengent.
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Apr 11, 2017 22:01
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mcmagic posted:Lots of walkers there and only 1 of them I think is reasonable to call a format staple. Ajani Vengent. Basically replaced everywhere by Nahiri. Also, Dack Fayden is a Vintage staple.
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Apr 11, 2017 22:03
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Sampatrick posted:Most Planeswalkers have an alternate condition where it takes over the game. It's just hard to justify playing a Planeswalker that is only ever good if you have complete control over the board. Hard, but not impossible. Ashiok was a complete house even though there were plenty of two-drops that meant you couldn't safely play it and I expect this Nissa will work out similarly despite the heart. Big ups that while Ashiok couldn't really do much except be annoying while they had 2 power around, Nissa gets to keep providing value if their board consists of the Knight token left over after you had to answer Gideon with a kill spell atelier morgan fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Apr 11, 2017 |
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Apr 11, 2017 22:05
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YggdrasilTM posted:Basically replaced everywhere by Nahiri. I meant in standard. Neither is or was a format staple in Modern.
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Apr 11, 2017 22:06
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mcmagic posted:Lots of walkers there and only 1 of them I think is reasonable to call a format staple. Ajani Vengent. This post except lol that he left out the most played gold walker in standard (Domri) while putting like 8 different unplayable ones on the list.
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Apr 11, 2017 22:08
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mcmagic posted:I meant in standard. Neither is or was a format staple in Modern. Ajani Vengeant saw play in Modern on an on-again, off-again basis. Both early on and recently in Jeskai The rest yeah, not so much.
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Apr 11, 2017 22:09
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Ultima66 posted:This post except lol that he left out the most played gold walker in standard (Domri) while putting like 8 different unplayable ones on the list. Domri was in 1 deck. IDK if that is a staple...
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Apr 11, 2017 22:10
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mcmagic posted:I meant in standard. Neither is or was a format staple in Modern. For standard, Ashiok saw a lot of use in control decks.
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Apr 11, 2017 22:10
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Yeah she saw some play recently, but I doubt we'll be seeing her often in the future.
TheChirurgeon fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Apr 11, 2017 |
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Apr 11, 2017 22:11
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TheChirurgeon posted:Yeah she saw some play recently, but I doubt we'll be seeing her often in the future. Seeing some play isn't the same thing as being a format staple. You're talking about something that is played in multiples in multiple decks.
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Apr 11, 2017 22:14
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mcmagic posted:Seeing some play isn't the same thing as being a format staple. You're talking about something that is played in multiples in multiple decks. I guess I consider something a "staple" if I want a few copies in my binder for that format. Xenagos and Ashiok were definitely that in KTK standard. I guess it's not worth arguing over a judgement call, but they were good walkers in good decks at certain times in the format.
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Apr 11, 2017 22:18
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mcmagic posted:Seeing some play isn't the same thing as being a format staple. You're talking about something that is played in multiples in multiple decks. If that is the bar, basically no plainswalker except for Liliana of the veil, Karn and Ugin is a staple in modern.
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Apr 11, 2017 22:19
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YggdrasilTM posted:If that is the bar, basically no plainswalker except for Liliana of the veil, Karn and Ugin is a staple in modern. If you added last hope, you would indeed. I feel its a silly thing to be pendantic over but mtggoldfish at least has a list of what is considered a format staple. Everyone feel free to argue over it for pages upon pages. https://www.mtggoldfish.com/index/modern#paper
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Apr 11, 2017 22:23
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The only card that's a format staple is Flooded Strand, IMO.
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Apr 11, 2017 22:33
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:The only card that's a format staple is Flooded Strand, IMO. Doesn't even see standard play. Not a format staple.
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Apr 11, 2017 22:38
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A card can be a format staple and in just one deck, because that's the best deck for the card, particularly if it is a gold card. Bloodbraid elf, Lingering Souls and Ashiok are all great examples. They were in just one deck because that deck was quickly the best deck you could have with them, so the other decks trying them quickly faded.
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Apr 11, 2017 22:50
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Marketing New Brain posted:A card can be a format staple and in just one deck, because that's the best deck for the card, particularly if it is a gold card. Bloodbraid elf, Lingering Souls and Ashiok are all great examples. They were in just one deck because that deck was quickly the best deck you could have with them, so the other decks trying them quickly faded. Lingering Souls was in like a dozen tier 1 decks over its 2 years in Standard. Ashiok was a roleplayer in UBx control but people have a boner for it for some reason and want to believe it was an Important Card.
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Apr 11, 2017 23:00
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Marketing New Brain posted:A card can be a format staple and in just one deck, because that's the best deck for the card, particularly if it is a gold card. Bloodbraid elf, Lingering Souls and Ashiok are all great examples. They were in just one deck because that deck was quickly the best deck you could have with them, so the other decks trying them quickly faded. You can't compare Ashiok to those other two in terms of power level...
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Apr 11, 2017 23:06
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Tales of Woe posted:Lingering Souls was in like a dozen tier 1 decks over its 2 years in Standard. Ashiok was a roleplayer in UBx control but people have a boner for it for some reason and want to believe it was an Important Card. Ashiok was nowhere near the best card in UB control decks in that standard. It has the distinction of being one of the few planeswalkers where my default reaction was typically "ignore, keep attacking them". In fact I can't think of many times that card really did any major work or why most of the decks even included it tbh. EDIT: But to me a better definition of staple is this. It's a card where if you are playing it's colors, you need to ask yourself why you are not playing that card in your 75. Thoughtseize, Inquisition, Lightning Bolt, Path all qualify. Fetchlands/Shocklands qualify because if you are playing multicolor you should be plaything them. Lilly of the Veil or Last Hope is one too. She doesnt go in every deck that plays Black, but she does earn consideration. Ugin and Karn are kind of interesting examples. I would say they are staples in the sense that if you are playing a big mana deck, you should ask yourself why you aren't playing those cards. anglachel fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Apr 11, 2017 |
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Apr 11, 2017 23:20
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