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It's also worth noting that the twist is predicated on the universe being a deterministic place, and that having native fluency in Heptapod B doesn't give you the ability to "see the future" so much as predict events based on your current circumstances with perfect accuracy.
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Apr 12, 2017 18:31
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I was listening to the Liam Vetra banter and now I have a much lower opinion of Liam. He goes hard on her and she doesn't take any of that poo poo. Even when he tries to half rear end apology she's like nah you're a loving dick. That's what you get for messing with my cool, tall friend. <3.
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Apr 12, 2017 18:31
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Charles Get-Out posted:We don't know though, really. I mean, sure, I can go with 'we don't know, really' but I'm also in the camp of 'probably not.' To bring it back to the sci-fi elements in stuff like Mass Effect, is it possible we'll be able to ever utilize FTL? Based on our current understanding of the universe and how time and causality work, absolutely not. Based on our ignorance? We don't know, but probably not. There are certain fundamental concepts that I could imagine us overcoming in the future, and I guess I can kind of imagine us being wrong about special relativity but it would be a major, major stretch. Something I can't imagine us being wrong about, for instance, is the second law of thermodynamics. If that isn't a fundamentally true and an unbreakable feature of reality then nothing we understand makes a bit of sense.
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Apr 12, 2017 18:31
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Halloween Jack posted:OTOH, nobody actually wants to play a video game about trying to figure out how to talk to giant mollusks that communicate by peeing or whatever. Rule 34.1
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Apr 12, 2017 18:40
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ashpanash posted:I mean, sure, I can go with 'we don't know, really' but I'm also in the camp of 'probably not.' I'm not trying to claim Arrival is hard sci-fi, or even "probable," but it has closer ties to actual scientific ideas than ME's fictional element that allows for cancelling and manipulating the effects of mass. ME's FTL method is likely one of the least probable frankly. 
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Apr 12, 2017 18:40
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ashpanash posted:Yeah, I get it, all I'm saying is that this is really a bunch of bullshit magic, not hard sci-fi. Most "hard" sci fi still works off one or two outlandish concepts, and fills in with well-reasoned and scientific explanations for how things work outside that. Usually looking at how society develops from it (in the good ones) instead of jerking off about science 24/7 ME1 was actually pretty awesome at that. That and The Expanse novels are some of my favorite hard sci-fi settings.
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Apr 12, 2017 18:43
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Thanks for posting the Orz video, very interesting. I am also embarrased because I use to play with people that used *happy camper* and *silly cow* all the drat time. Now I am not sure if is a english thing or I was friend of the Orz.
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Apr 12, 2017 18:43
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I remember when Jaal first joins your crew and everyone's like "Are you sure you want to go with these unknown aliens?" and there's this small scene in the conference room where he's completely on his own in an unfamiliar environment and it feels like it's this huge moment that the human Pathfinder has been able to establish a bond with an alien race and it's this significant breakthrough. Then you get to Kadara and find out that Angarans have been palling around with the MW races for a while now and it's nbd.
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Apr 12, 2017 18:48
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Most "hard" sci fi still works off one or two outlandish concepts, and fills in with well-reasoned and scientific explanations for how things work outside that. Usually looking at how society develops from it (in the good ones) instead of jerking off about science 24/7 Oh I totally agree, and I'm not suggesting that hard sci-fi makes for anything except good books where you can really delve into the subject. As a medium for storytelling, hard sci-fi is pretty barren. I'm all for good storytelling, which requires a bit of magical realism no matter how you slice it. (Real life doesn't follow story structure.) Charles Get-Out posted:ME's FTL method is likely one of the least probable frankly. Yeah, that and they use a basic misunderstanding of quantum entanglement as a method for communication. And of course there's no reason another alien race should develop mammary glands, much less put them exactly in the same place as humans. But I tend to only really give a poo poo about the science if the rest of the experience is not entertaining in any way.
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Apr 12, 2017 18:50
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ashpanash posted:But I tend to only really give a poo poo about the science if the rest of the experience is not entertaining in any way. That's fair. Hobo Clown posted:I remember when Jaal first joins your crew and everyone's like "Are you sure you want to go with these unknown aliens?" and there's this small scene in the conference room where he's completely on his own in an unfamiliar environment and it feels like it's this huge moment that the human Pathfinder has been able to establish a bond with an alien race and it's this significant breakthrough. I know they needed an excuse to give you some humans to shoot, but yeahhhhhhh they didn't need to neuter the mystery of the setting at the same time.
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Apr 12, 2017 18:54
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Hobo Clown posted:I remember when Jaal first joins your crew and everyone's like "Are you sure you want to go with these unknown aliens?" and there's this small scene in the conference room where he's completely on his own in an unfamiliar environment and it feels like it's this huge moment that the human Pathfinder has been able to establish a bond with an alien race and it's this significant breakthrough. See, this was a missed opportunity. If they had Ryder acknowledge and be disappointed by the fact that he wasn't First Contact after all that would have been nice. Then, you could make it a running thing throughout the rest of Ryder's games where he thinks he's made a first contact only to have it turn out that someone beat him to it by like a week and then at the end of his last game he finally *does* get to and if you pick wrong you can totally gently caress it up.
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Apr 12, 2017 18:57
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Hobo Clown posted:I remember when Jaal first joins your crew and everyone's like "Are you sure you want to go with these unknown aliens?" and there's this small scene in the conference room where he's completely on his own in an unfamiliar environment and it feels like it's this huge moment that the human Pathfinder has been able to establish a bond with an alien race and it's this significant breakthrough. I've read spoilers on the ending and I'm still disappointed that this isn't all completely intentional, that Ryder really is just completely unprepared for her job and bad at it (but trying pretty hard and making ground anyway) and that the bad guys aren't defeated by Ryder but because a bunch of N7 dudes wake up from cryo and show up to help her solve the problem. Andromeda 2 or the expansion would be about Ryder, now more experienced, more able to stand alone and do things properly as the Of course it'd be totally contrary to the whole "be the first to explore the new galaxy!" but the rest of the game is anyway. It doesn't want to commit to anything at all. RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Apr 12, 2017 |
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Apr 12, 2017 18:57
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Spikeguy posted:I was listening to the Liam Vetra banter and now I have a much lower opinion of Liam. He goes hard on her and she doesn't take any of that poo poo. Even when he tries to half rear end apology she's like nah you're a loving dick. That's what you get for messing with my cool, tall friend. <3. It's because he's a loving narc Cora gives her poo poo too but is smart enough to back off, seemingly.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:08
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Also PB and Drack are the coolest.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:11
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Which s the one thing you should never ever do in a game about exploring an unknown galaxy. I think a lot of narrative issues with MEA basically hinge on this: They obviously did not have any coherent vision for what this game should be about. They wanted to run far, far away from the ME3 ending, but they didn't want to run too far away from the existing ME/BioWare formula. If they'd had any passion for it, maybe they could have told some interesting stories about exploration/discovery/colonization. But instead, it mostly feels like they're rushing to get Andromeda to basically the world state of ME1. We've got a New Citadel! We've got a New Omega and (literally) New Tuchanka! We've got a mysterious, missing ancient race that left behind powerful tech! And so on. A whole lot of narrative inconsistencies, contradictions, and disappointments stem from that tension -- for example, the Nexus has to beat you to Andromeda so that it's there when you arrive, and so that there's a reason for all those exiles at Kadara and the Krogan on Elaaden. It undercuts the whole theme of exploring a fresh galaxy, but hey, it'll be familiar, right! The technical and design issues are bad too, but this is why the narrative parts of the game fell extremely flat for me, even after getting to some of the better parts in loyalty missions and Kadara.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:12
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Spikeguy posted:Also PB and Drack are the coolest. I too am a fan of Pelessaria B'sayle and Drack and they are real good together
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Apr 12, 2017 19:18
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Tei posted:Thanks for posting the Orz video, very interesting. I am also embarrased because I use to play with people that used *happy camper* and *silly cow* all the drat time. Now I am not sure if is a english thing or I was friend of the Orz. Halloween Jack posted:
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Apr 12, 2017 19:23
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"Embrace eternity."
"Juffo-Wup fills in my fibers and I am turgid."
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Charles Get-Out posted:I'm not trying to claim Arrival is hard sci-fi, or even "probable," but it has closer ties to actual scientific ideas than ME's fictional element that allows for cancelling and manipulating the effects of mass. It does, though it's worth noting that even the linguistic hypothesis behind Arrival, the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, is controversial at best, discredited at worst. Beyond the whole sci-fi alien language lets you perceive/predict the future conceit, the linguistic theory ain't on the firmest of ground either. Still more plausible than eezo/biotics/Mass Relays though, sure.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:29
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Spikeguy posted:Also PB and Drack are the coolest. I've been rolling with Drack and Vetra on my current playthrough. I was going with Jaal and Vetra on my first short run. One of these days I'll try something else.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:33
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Charles Get-Out posted:I know they needed an excuse to give you some humans to shoot, but yeahhhhhhh they didn't need to neuter the mystery of the setting at the same time. Man, why? I don't need to shoot humans, get rid of the exiles. They're part of what ruins the setting and makes it all feel like humans/salarians/turians/asari/krogan have been there for AGES.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:34
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Charles Get-Out posted:What writing space have they left themselves to make races that are "alien," but also familiar enough to not confuse the majority of their player base? The established lore has a lot room for new tensions in the andromeda galaxy imho and we could look back in the lore to find good sources of conflict. For example in the milky way, Volus, Elcor and Hanari were second class client races while Drell were a client-of-a-client race and Quarians were outright exiles. Within the context of the ark ships colonizing a new galaxy it's quite possible that these once lowly races could outnumber or exceed in importance the major council races just because they happened to be well represented in the people they sent on the arks. There could be tensions over how much of the old power structure should be preserved in andromeda, if there should be nu-council with salarians, turians, asari and maybe even humans eager to keep the old hierarchies in play. Likewise batarians never gave up on their traditional slave taking practices, it was always indirectly tolerated in the milky way but now it could have dire consequences in andromeda if they take on the role of the literally slave-taking colonizer. There's plenty of room for that sort of writing that draws from what they've already established in previous games to flesh out the setting and give it a more 'mass effect' feel.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:44
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It would be funny if Batarians show up and it turns out they were all running away from their awful racist slaver parents.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:53
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Ambaire posted:I've been rolling with Drack and Vetra on my current playthrough. I was going with Jaal and Vetra on my first short run. One of these days I'll try something else. Drack has amazing conversations with everyone. Drack and Jaal, Drak and Pebee, Drak and Vetra were my favorites. The only pair I really hated having together was Vetra and Liam. They bickered constantly and it got irritating. I kept going "ok, now that this conversation is over surely they won't bring up Sid again" but nope, it kept coming up so I never put them together again. Basically Krogan are the best race to have been produced by the Mass Effect universe and I will fight you if you disagree. I felt *really really loving bad* when I opted to not grab the Krogan scouts on the dreadnought. I IMMEDIATELY regretted the decision even if the fallout from it has minor at best implications. (I was just real tired of pathfinders dying and wanted to save the Salarian, but goddamn Drack's reaction was tough to take [which I guess makes it an actual interesting decision])
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Apr 12, 2017 19:54
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Taear posted:Man, why? I don't need to shoot humans, get rid of the exiles. They're part of what ruins the setting and makes it all feel like humans/salarians/turians/asari/krogan have been there for AGES. Cause it's a video game made by EA and the nature of video games means they want to give you things to shoot/kill cause mass market appeal. Exiles do mess up the setting a bit. They could've written that in a more interesting way for sure. Nancy fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Apr 12, 2017 |
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Apr 12, 2017 19:56
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I figured they were pathfinders and they should be able to handle that poo poo. If they couldn't then that's their loving problem. Also they're Salarians so they can just make a bunch more in like a week, whereas you're probably going to need the Krogan and you don't have Morden there to cure the genophage.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:57
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ashpanash posted:I figured they were pathfinders and they should be able to handle that poo poo. If they couldn't then that's their loving problem. Like I said. Instant regret. Although krogan scouts haven't proven especially useful. The ones looking for the hidden Eledaan water supply are literally standing above the entrance to the underground lake scratching their heads.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:59
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ashpanash posted:I figured they were pathfinders and they should be able to handle that poo poo. If they couldn't then that's their loving problem. The Krogan that were brought had gene therapy done (somehow) while they were in cryo so they have a 4% viability rate, up from 0.1%. So now they'll be able to have like 40 kids per clutch instead of 1.
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Apr 12, 2017 20:00
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Admiral Ray posted:The Krogan that were brought had gene therapy done (somehow) while they were in cryo so they have a 4% viability rate, up from 0.1%. So now they'll be able to have like 40 kids per clutch instead of 1. No, it means 4% of their births won't be stillborn. Instead of 0.1% of their births. And I know it's an EA game but we get to shoot Angara and Kett, we don't need council races too!
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Apr 12, 2017 20:11
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Serf posted:Mass Effect Andromeda: To Boldly Go Where Plenty of People Have Gone Before But enough about your mom. 
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Apr 12, 2017 20:16
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Raeka also saves your rear end earlier in the mission. Kinda lovely not to return the favor.
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Apr 12, 2017 20:21
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Reclaimer posted:Raeka also saves your rear end earlier in the mission. Kinda lovely not to return the favor. It's also kind of lovely to disappoint your adoptive grandpa, too.
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Apr 12, 2017 20:29
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She really didn't. The only fight I ever had any trouble with in the entire game was the Architect fight on ice world, and that was because it was the first one I accidentally ran into at a super low level, 25 I think. I had the worst powers in the world for it, too- Charge, Nova and my Remnant VI. My guns were all shotguns, and really lovely ones too. I died twice- the first time I tried to take cover too much and the second time the environment got me. So I just buckled down and Vanguarded harder than ever and it was the most fun I had in the entire game. Just really fun and challenging. The fact that I had lovely weapons and the only power I had that could do a drat thing was charge really did help matters. The environment being so dangerous also added a level of difficulty that I loved. And then I leveled up further and decided to save the other fights with those fuckers til I got some better powers and a better shotgun because I knew they leveled to you. That was a mistake. That was a giant mistake. The fight on Eladan just was really sad. I felt bad about it. Never once was I in any danger. It was just such a let down from earlier.
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Apr 12, 2017 20:32
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Drack is easily my favorite new character in a long time. They need to fill the adopted grandparent slot in every game going forward with someone. Next time, Asari grandma. Or Salarian grandma who is younger than you.
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Apr 12, 2017 20:34
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I like how Drack's armor looks like football pads duct-taped together, plus some jewelry from the set of a mondo film.
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Apr 12, 2017 20:35
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Burkion posted:She really didn't. This part pissed me off. What with everyone in your squad screaming about how you're doomed when it's like ten guys plus an Ascendant. I've had more trouble with random camps on Voeld. I get that they wanted to endear you to Raeka, but that situation was so contrived that it had the opposite effect on me.
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Apr 12, 2017 20:41
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Taear posted:No, it means 4% of their births won't be stillborn. Instead of 0.1% of their births. Even if they want to have you shoot council races, have the uprising & exile take place during the game, or at the very least keep them and the Angarans separate. When a group of exiles are able to make first contact and establish several working outposts on multiple planets before any of the Pathfinders even show up it makes you wonder why they're needed in the first place. Alec Ryder only manages to becomes relevant on accident because his magic AI can interface with the monoliths, something nobody even knew about before they left.
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Apr 12, 2017 20:41
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I saved the scouts because I thought it was a bad idea to let the Kett walk away with a bunch of krogans that they can exalt
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Apr 12, 2017 20:45
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fruit on the bottom posted:I saved the scouts because I thought it was a bad idea to let the Kett walk away with a bunch of krogans that they can exalt It is, and this choice has an effect on gameplay for the remaining story missions in the game. If you save the salarians, behemoths become regular minibosses in the remaining story missions. If you save the krogan, it's the much weaker fiends instead.
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Apr 12, 2017 20:49
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The thing I think a lot of the discussion about hard vs soft sci-fi actually revolves around is internal consistency. Basically, when we read stories we expect them to follow their own internally consistent rules. As long as those rules are clear and make sense to us we accept all kinds of unreal things in the story as being true within the context of a world that isn't ours, but still obeys rules we either have laid out for us explicitly or (and this is the trick of 'show, not tell') infer based on how the world is presented to us as working. Mass Effect started off from a few made up premises, but it used to stick by the rules it set up for its fictional elements. Mass effect fields aren't real, but the writers treated them as if they were and, as 'real' things within the fiction, they obeyed certain rules. Compare to SAM and for bonus points try to coherently explain a) how SAM interfaces with Ryder and b) what can't SAM do, if anything?
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Apr 12, 2017 20:49
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Cythereal posted:It is, and this choice has an effect on gameplay for the remaining story missions in the game. If you save the salarians, behemoths become regular minibosses in the remaining story missions. If you save the krogan, it's the much weaker fiends instead. That's a cool reactive choice and I hope in the next game , if you saved the Krogan, you encounter exhalted Salarians and an exhalted Raeka miniboss
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Apr 12, 2017 20:53
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