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Kalenn Istarion posted:Who does their background check company intend to call? Your boss or whatever random hr flunky? I'm not entirely sure, to be honest. If I recall correctly, the application had me put my current supervisor's name and contact info, not HR. But either way, our HR rep here is pretty untrustworthy and I'm not sure I would trust her to not say anything to my boss.
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Mar 29, 2017 22:43
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Gin_Rummy posted:I'm not entirely sure, to be honest. If I recall correctly, the application had me put my current supervisor's name and contact info, not HR. But either way, our HR rep here is pretty untrustworthy and I'm not sure I would trust her to not say anything to my boss. She has no reason not to tell your boss, it's not confidential that you are leaving.
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Mar 30, 2017 08:16
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Exactly. So if the background check is going to contact her/my boss anyways, should I nip it in the bud and give them my notice before they're contacted?
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Mar 30, 2017 14:06
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No. For all they know it's a background check for a rental home. Never put in your two weeks before a new offer's contingencies are met.
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Mar 30, 2017 15:19
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I always make it clear that they do not have permission to contact my current company, and I've sometimes withheld the name of it and just described it vaguely on my resume. I work in a pretty secretive industry though. (I was still able to get references, just from folks I trust.)
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Mar 30, 2017 16:07
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My company is a tech start up, been in business 5 years. I have been here almost a year. They told me at time of hire they'd have a 40k by December but we dont....and it doesn't look immenent. What's the best way to bring this up when I do salary negotiations in next month ish
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Apr 4, 2017 16:12
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They said they'd get a 401k, and not only that they said they'd do it in a timely manner. Patrons of this thread might expect me to tell you to use this as a cudgel, but it's a goal they set they're 4 months late on delivering. You cannot shame them with it (they'd have held up their end of the deal by now if you could), and you cannot use it as leverage. In fact, by stiffing you on a piece of compensation, they have created leverage for themselves. They have tested, and then confirmed, the hypothesis that they can dick you over and you'll just accept it. If you REALLY like working there you can bring it up during review and say that this is a dimension of compensation that you were promised and they didn't deliver on, so you'd like a bigger raise, please. I was in a similar situation: I had busted my rear end and earned a raise, but the company had unilaterally imposed a blanket 6 month delay on all raises without any compensating equity, or interest, or other equitable measure. I got up and left over it, no counteroffer opportunities, no bargaining. Someone who rips you off once will rip you off again if you let them. These people agreed to provide you a 401k and then did not honor their agreement. I would find other employment and tell them exactly why you're leaving when you do.
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Apr 4, 2017 16:46
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Got an excellent offer, negotiated it up very slightly. Now I get to freak out about how I handled it while waiting to hear back.
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Apr 6, 2017 13:05
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I interviewed for a job which they told me I got. Gonna hire me I guess. Had to fill out another application so they could do background checks. I left my salary history blank. Now the HR person sent me a email this morning asking for salary history. What's the good response here
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Apr 6, 2017 18:26
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Goodpancakes posted:I interviewed for a job which they told me I got. Gonna hire me I guess. Had to fill out another application so they could do background checks. I left my salary history blank. Now the HR person sent me a email this morning asking for salary history. What's the good response here Did they tell you what they're going to hire you at already?
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Apr 6, 2017 18:40
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What industry/position?
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Apr 6, 2017 18:46
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:Did they tell you what they're going to hire you at already? My boss suggested a hourly that I would be offered, but he didn't sound sure of the number
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Apr 6, 2017 18:51
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There is no reason for them to need your salary history. If you can't think of anything, tell them you have an NDA or something.
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Apr 6, 2017 19:24
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Alternatively you can tell them that you'll supply salary history information after they commit to a defined compensation package they will be including in their offer.
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Apr 6, 2017 20:16
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Ghostnuke posted:There is no reason for them to need your salary history. If you can't think of anything, tell them you have an NDA or something. Yep, my go to line is "I'm contractually obligated to not share my salary history" Just want to say thanks to everyone on this thread for all the advice. Negotiated an offer to bump salary 10k higher than the company's initial offer and I started the position this week. Employer covers 100% of medical/dental/vision premiums and has a generous leave policy. I'm quite pleased with the package all around 
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Apr 6, 2017 20:22
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It's for a survey crew chief position. My options are "contractually obligated to not share" or the line about sharing it after an offer
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Apr 6, 2017 20:28
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Now that I think about it, the bit about sharing it after they make an offer is better. Something like, "I would not be comfortable sharing that information with a firm I do not work for yet".
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Apr 6, 2017 20:44
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I wouldn't be comfortable sharing that information with a company I do work for.
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Apr 6, 2017 20:53
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Well I went with "I am not comfortable sharing this information which my prior employers consider private. I much rather prefer to focus on the value I would bring to company instead" or similar and it worked fine. They sent an offer over which is fantastic compared to my current setup. 100% jump in payment, 401k, more time off, better medical. So I'm happy. It is slightly lower then what was suggested during my interview. I said great I'll look it over I'll be in contact soon. Do I send an offer back to hit in the range suggested in the interview?
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Apr 11, 2017 18:27
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Goodpancakes posted:They sent an offer over which is fantastic compared to my current setup. Congratulations. I would probably stop there, but 100% more than I'm currently making (or I'm sure more than you're currently making!) is quite a bit of money.
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Apr 11, 2017 21:11
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If they gave you a range in an interview and then an offer below that range I would definitely come back with an ask within the range.
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Apr 11, 2017 22:49
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Wondering about what sort of range would be sensible to look at for my next job. Context: I'm a year out of my MA. Spent the last year establishing a technical facility on a shoestring while horribly underpaid. If my current employer retains me they'll have to raise me to £32-5k in order to comply with their own HR standards. I know for a fact I have a very good BANTA against my employer (because of the last year's experience), while they have no BANTA against me -- if they lose me, they'll have to shut down the facility (which they just invested a lot of money in), and they're unlikely to find anyone who could run the facility who wouldn't want at least the same amount, but with the added hassle of having to learn a wide and esoteric range of technical skills and picking up my procedures. The equivalent positions to the job I do (Technical Team Leader or Facility Manager) have an average salary in the £35 - 40k range. I'm interested in moving to more strategic or project management type roles, but don't meet the formal requirements for most of these roles. Should I be trying to negotiate salaries at around the £32-5k mark with other employers, or higher? I feel like I have the experience to demand that kind of salary, but that I'd struggle to convince a lot of employers of that. How would you go about negotiating this sort of thing at a very early career stage? Also, assuming my current employer renews my contract, how would I go about asking for the higher of the two possible salary bands open to me? Purple Prince fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Apr 11, 2017 |
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Apr 11, 2017 22:52
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I'm not sure how to negotiate on that situation so I'll let someone else do that. I would like to advise you to be careful with the 'they can't do it without me, I'm irreplacable' mindset. If that attitude/mindset pisses off someone in the command chain they will make it a personal goal to kick you out and replace you, even if they're off worse. I'm sure you won't phrase it to your employer like this, but don't get too cocky about it.
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Apr 12, 2017 20:34
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Purple Prince posted:Wondering about what sort of range would be sensible to look at for my next job. You are counting your chickens before they've hatched. Bok bok! Your BATNA is unemployment, and your BATNA will continue to be unemployment until you actually find a job offer that is better than your current employment. Moreover, your attitude swings wildly from you are irreplaceable, to "assuming your contract is renewed". If you work for someone who chronically underpays the industry for the role you perform, and they presently underpay you, then you should reasonably assume they will try to underpay you if they bring you on full time. Which means you need leverage, which means you need to start talking to other employers. This is work. You need to go on interviews with these other employers. This is also work. You need to do such a good job presenting yourself interviewing that you get offers. This is also work. You need to get offers that are better than the £32-35k range. More work. You've got some work ahead of you, if you want to negotiate with your current employer. Get working!
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Apr 12, 2017 21:07
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:You've got some work ahead of you, if you want to negotiate with your current employer. Get working! God I could just read your posts all day 
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Apr 12, 2017 21:21
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:You are counting your chickens before they've hatched. Bok bok! [...] Thanks for the reality check. I'm partway there in that I've rewritten my CV etc and am applying for other roles. We'll see how things go on the interview front, then maybe I'll be back. The contract stuff is related to why I'm currently underpaid. My theoretical position is way below my actual job responsibilities. Torn between staying with my current employer and leaving, and could honestly see myself doing either depending on offers. I'm also good at getting overexcited when I get some good news, and other stuff seems to be going well at the moment. But I appreciate that life can be a house of cards.
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Apr 12, 2017 22:26
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Goodpancakes posted:Well I went with "I am not comfortable sharing this information which my prior employers consider private. I much rather prefer to focus on the value I would bring to company instead" or similar and it worked fine. I was in a similar position and asked for more. They said "lol no" so I took the job as stated and it was fine. Just a personal experience but I'm glad I asked because it gave me more confidence in just putting it out there.
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Apr 13, 2017 01:58
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:God I could just read your posts all day Dear BFC i would like to make posting my full time job please sponsor my patreon my BATNA is well compensated corporate wage slavery and your BATNA is not getting to read my posts oh god what have i done i lost the negotiating game already
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Apr 13, 2017 13:39
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:Dear BFC i would like to make posting my full time job please sponsor my patreon sometimes you can lose the game merely by pointing out what the two states for each player are
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Apr 13, 2017 14:20
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Background: Joined the consulting firm almost exactly 1 year ago. I have a graduate degree in the field. My profession/experience is not quite what the position was, but I'm 80% of what the job listing wanted. And more importantly, the other 20% are skills unique to me, that my boss loved and wanted me to bring to the team. The position pay ranged from 80/100s to 100/100s. That's a pretty big gap. I was offered the bottom and negotiated up to 84/100s. The reason I was given was that I would need training to be 100% at the position, and this would take time. Normally, there is a ~6-month trial period and then a raise at the 6 month mark. Because I initially negotiated up, I was told I would not receive a raise at the 6 month period. This was told to me after I negotiated my initial salary. I'm on a small team of 4 people. Nobody really has individual projects so I don't know how to negotiate. Normally I break down a project like "I delivered this product, X days ahead of schedule, which met project goals y,x,z and exceeded customer expectations." I do know there are literally things the other people on my team cannot do which I did; Adobe Creative Suite and advanced statistics, in addition to specialized knowledge. At least one of these reports is being used by the firm at a convention and shared company wide for new quality standards. Before I joined the team, reports were delivered in Microsoft Word and now I do all the indesign. I also did a last-minute cover for my boss where I conducted a presentation and led a stakeholder meeting with 20+ clients. The other 3 people all have similar backgrounds with each other and educations. In a few topics I am less skilled than my 3 teammates, in a few topics I am more skilled than my 3 teammates. But there is only 1 of me, and there is skill redundancy with the 3. It would be much more difficult to replace the utility I bring than any of my teammates. My teammates love me because I am reliable, relentlessly positive, and always volunteering to help. I am that dude at work who is always positive, never talks about his personal life, and does good work. My boss consistently gives me praise, and she has been known to not be so positive with other members of the team. It's been a year and according to national statistics, I make ~75% of the median salary for this position. I live in an area with high cost of living. I completed my first year on the job and I'd like to ask for a 20-25% raise to get closer to the median. I don't really expect this size of a raise every year, but I do want to get up to what is competitive for the position. I also feel like they got a bargain for the last 6 months of my labor. 1. Should I mention that I don't expect this big of a raise in the future? (or is this just closing future doors?) 2. Should I mention my positional scarcity? (I.e. I do things other members on the team cannot do?) 3. Should I mention the "discount" of 6 months of labor because I deferred a raise? Thank you for reading all those words, here are cute dogs: http://i.imgur.com/ku6IEJf.mp4
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Apr 13, 2017 17:49
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JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:... 1. Present your case rationally and with this implication but without a promise. Describe that the market price for your skill set is X, and that you'd like a raise to X to correct to the market. 2. Not unless you're ready to find other work. Which you should do anyway, because it's empirical data about your market value. Go interviewing! Just bringing this up can draw attention to the organizational risk that you are not literally replaceable with someone else on staff. 3. They deferred a raise, you did not. They changed the terms without communicating the change. You understood your compensation to be "X, with review in 6 months" when you agreed to the position. They understood your compensation to be "Y+Z, that we really resent you negotiating Z out of us for, so no review after 6 months!" but did not communicate as much. They are dicks. You would be well served to express your dissatisfaction with their actions during your review, particularly if you can get up and leave should they not correct to more satisfactory actions. A few other thoughts: You are probably not actually irreplaceable, very few of us are. The company was able to profitably operate before you came along and raised the game. They can probably still operate profitably even if they do not replicate your skillset. However if you can quantify how much having you around is worth, even in ballpark terms, that can be a big help to getting offers elsewhere. I don't harp on getting other offers because I think people should switch jobs frequently. I've had 4 different employers in the last decade, which is not a small amount, but isn't quite annually swapping either. It's just that having that offer in hand is the only real, legitimate leverage you have for demanding things and enforcing a consequence if your demands are not met. JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:Thank you for reading all those words, here are cute dogs: D'aww 
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Apr 13, 2017 18:13
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Thanks for the response! My team is small and I get to look behind the administrative curtain a fair bit. Currently, the company charges clients 4.25x of my wage for 1 hour of my labor. And it should increase even more in the very near future. My boss is the person who communicated this information to me. I have no other offers at this time to compare with because I have not applied to jobs. I will get in the habit of doing this all the time.
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Apr 13, 2017 18:25
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JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:Thanks for the response! My team is small and I get to look behind the administrative curtain a fair bit. Currently, the company charges clients 4.25x of my wage for 1 hour of my labor. And it should increase even more in the very near future. My boss is the person who communicated this information to me. Every body shop does this; I spent 2010-2016 consulting & receiving a salary roughly ~1/3rd the hourly rate I was billed out at. That does account for vacation time, but doesn't account for bennies. Try not to think too much about your billed rate until you got a nice e-fund saved up and you're ready to start billing it out yourself. And pay for insurance. And do sales calls. And... maybe not collecting 100% of your billed rate is worth it to you. 
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Apr 13, 2017 18:52
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:Every body shop does this; I spent 2010-2016 consulting & receiving a salary roughly ~1/3rd the hourly rate I was billed out at. That does account for vacation time, but doesn't account for bennies. Indeed, bill rates are always going to be a few multiples higher than what you actually get paid when you work for someone else. But that's not necessarily a bad thing assuming you get value out of working for them. I'm a salaried consultant and the bill rate my company charges is about 3 - 3.5x my "hourly" salary rate, but that margin also covers good benefits, vacation/sick days, sales/marketing, contracts, finance, IT & equipment, office space, and of course some net profit for the company after all of that (which a slice of ultimately gets paid back out as profit share bonus). It's tempting to look at $200+/hr bill rates and think "gee I should just go solo and get that all myself" but then I'd have to actually run a business and do a bunch of poo poo I don't want to do and work a lot more hours that aren't billable.
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Apr 13, 2017 19:19
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:Every body shop does this; I spent 2010-2016 consulting & receiving a salary roughly ~1/3rd the hourly rate I was billed out at. That does account for vacation time, but doesn't account for bennies. Having done this for a while I was pretty happy to go back to a salary, mind you I got more than the hourly rate I had been billing as salary plus bonus and options. I've described it previously but my batna was not continuing consulting, it was a job that paid even more but required a move so I was negotiating from a position of relative strength. I've since had a 6% raise and now sit on the committee designing our performance comp plan, which we are implementing in favour of a much lower although somewhat less risky bonus setup. Life is good 
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Apr 13, 2017 22:37
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I was not considering going solo, more curious about what is the average Nx? I realize that's a question with a lot of different answers and may not be worthwhile. I'm leaning towards not bringing up my relative 4.25x billed out rate in the negotiations.
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Apr 14, 2017 21:16
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My bill rate is a bit more than 5x my target total comp broken down on an hourly basis. Your number isn't a basis for negotiation, it's standard for consulting.
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Apr 15, 2017 01:02
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I would disagree - you can argue that you should capture a bigger portion of your bill rate as you become more valuable to the firm, and it can certainly be a point of negotiation. You just aren't going to be very successful if you're at one of the top firms.
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Apr 15, 2017 01:34
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Kalenn Istarion posted:I would disagree - you can argue that you should capture a bigger portion of your bill rate as you become more valuable to the firm, and it can certainly be a point of negotiation. You just aren't going to be very successful if you're at one of the top firms. I think at the poster's level that you're more likely to be successful negotiating based on value added than the delta between bill rate and your takehome.
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Apr 18, 2017 15:03
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JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:I was not considering going solo, more curious about what is the average Nx? I realize that's a question with a lot of different answers and may not be worthwhile. For most places|people as you get promotions and raises you get more of your billing rate anyway. So might as well negotiate for those things in the usual way. I don't think anyone would adjust your % of billing $ directly, if only because it's an HR and accounting nightmare. It would make sense to ask if you were doing some kind of work where there might be a huge variance in reward, so you end up at like 100:1 or something crazy. But jobs like that usually do big bonuses for those kind of circumstances, I guess. I did some napkin math on salaries and I don't think 4.25 is robbery. Assuming you're getting healthcare and not like buying your own equipment etc etc. Xguard86 fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Apr 18, 2017 |
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Apr 18, 2017 15:34
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