|
Oxyclean posted:DS2s enemies didn't have wild combos, but I remember there being a lot of hitstun so they'd get a few hits off before you could roll or get away anyways. You had poo poo like Alonne knights that'd charge you from a year away and hit like trucks. Or pretty much any of the DLC enemies that hit hard as hell and had tons of poise and resistance. You remember wrong, DS2 makes it so you can only be hit guaranteed twice, tops, period. Hitstun is canceled after the second hit of a normal combo. The sole exception to this are warpick drakekeepers, who have a special stun on their shieldbash, and even then, that's only three hits and the first one doesn't do that much. Alonne Knights literally don't have combos. They can only attack once per tick, more or less. You can always react after their attacks. Tracking overheads are still in 3, they just don't look like enemies are turning on a dime.
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 20:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 07:33 |
|
|
Iudex's problem is that he turns into the absolute bane of the game's combat system in phase 2: a giant, lumpy mass of tails and arms that does a bunch of weird flailing attacks that are nearly impossible to read. His first phase is only somewhat harder than, say, Dragonrider.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 20:28
|
|
|
Allone knights reminded me of geese. Goose knights are what I called them. Each time they'd charge me from the other side of the map I would hear goose honking in my head, and I'd just laugh and laugh...
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 20:30
|
|
|
ds3 is definitely harder than 1, as someone who replayed both recently. 1 really just doesn't have many dangerous enemies or bosses. But, ds3 also has less 'gotcha' moments trial-and-error moments that exist to wreck unspoiled players imo, less stuff like capra demon where it's like "figure out where to run immediately or get bodyblocked and hosed"... or Ceaseless Discharge, which is godawful and makes no sense. Or all the areas like that. In ds3 it's basically just yhorm, who I do hate like I said before but at least it's a oneoff.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 20:31
|
|
|
Oxyclean posted:Could you give me some example of the "gotchas"? Not trying to be snide. Everything that Lothric Knights do. Like they'll do a 360 tracking shield bash if you roll around them and if you keep your distance for too long they'll do an extremely reachy weapon art lunge. I mean, that's fine, that means you can't autopilot your way through them and you are forced to actually react to their attack patterns, but this would be miniboss-tier enemy behaviour in DS2 whereas in DS3 they're just these random dudes. The tree wielding giants in Farron are also kind of a pain because their attacks all emit homing skulls, leaving you with virtually no opportunity to heal from mistakes on account of the swamp killing your mobility.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 20:32
|
|
|
SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:I can't cite examples because it's been a while since I started ds3 but I absolutely felt like the game was punishing habits built from previous games. Specifically getting behind enemies is way less useful in 3. I mean they tried to punish that as early as 2 with the turtle knights that fell backwards and such. But yeah since Bloodborne pretty much all bosses have a punishing attack for trying to get behind them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 20:32
|
|
|
Internet Kraken posted:gahahahaahaha Hopefully quite a bit, they have their work cut out for them if they want to catch up with all the whining about how hard invasions were. SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:I can't cite examples because it's been a while since I started ds3 but I absolutely felt like the game was punishing habits built from previous games. Specifically getting behind enemies is way less useful in 3. I feel like DS3 is the hardest game but also the fairest. It has an extremely well metered out difficulty curve if you take the critical path through the game (certainly when compared to the other games in the series) but the actual gameplay itself is tighter and asks more from the player in terms of observing and adapting. You can't just shield turtle through DS3, not can you solely rely on backstabs or parries or any other singular technique (that isn't Hidden Body at least, although even that doesn't work on bosses and is probably not something a new player would casually stumble upon). It also is extremely self-aware and intentionally punishes veteran's ingrained habits, even habits that develop over the course of the game itself (see: Nameless King's rollcatch timings). In DS1 and even DS2, once you attained enough system mastery you could generally waltz through the games pretty trivially. This is certainly possible in DS3 as well, but it demands more from the player in terms of adaptation of tactics and attention to gameplay (the source of most of the complaints in this thread I suspect).
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 20:34
|
|
|
the funny thing is that getting up close and strafing right still makes lots of enemies much easier  AttackBacon posted:I feel like DS3 is the hardest game but also the fairest. It has an extremely well metered out difficulty curve if you take the critical path through the game (certainly when compared to the other games in the series) but the actual gameplay itself is tighter and asks more from the player in terms of observing and adapting. You can't just shield turtle through DS3, not can you solely rely on backstabs or parries or any other singular technique (that isn't Hidden Body at least, although even that doesn't work on bosses and is probably not something a new player would casually stumble upon). It also is extremely self-aware and intentionally punishes veteran's ingrained habits, even habits that develop over the course of the game itself (see: Nameless King's rollcatch timings). In DS1 and even DS2, once you attained enough system mastery you could generally waltz through the games pretty trivially. This is certainly possible in DS3 as well, but it demands more from the player in terms of adaptation of tactics and attention to gameplay (the source of most of the complaints in this thread I suspect). what a good boss LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Apr 12, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 20:35
|
|
|
Sapozhnik posted:Everything that Lothric Knights do. Okay, fair enough. Both those enemies give me trouble. And I'll give you those tree guys in particular. The one attack where they plant the tree in the ground and cause a huge explosion feels downright cheap, since you'll probably just mistake it for an opening the first time they do it. (But certainly isn't the first time that move has shown up in the series  )
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 20:36
|
|
|
IronicDongz posted:the funny thing is that getting up close and strafing right still makes lots of enemies much easier Certainly but it doesn't trivialize every single enemy like it did in DS1 and much of DS2. Many enemies have moves (Lothric Knight shield-bashes for example) specifically designed to counter that strategy. Oxyclean posted:Okay, fair enough. Both those enemies give me trouble. The tree guys burn real good.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 20:37
|
|
|
AttackBacon posted:I feel like DS3 is the hardest game but also the fairest. It has an extremely well metered out difficulty curve if you take the critical path through the game (certainly when compared to the other games in the series) but the actual gameplay itself is tighter and asks more from the player in terms of observing and adapting. You can't just shield turtle through DS3, not can you solely rely on backstabs or parries or any other singular technique (that isn't Hidden Body at least, although even that doesn't work on bosses and is probably not something a new player would casually stumble upon). It also is extremely self-aware and intentionally punishes veteran's ingrained habits, even habits that develop over the course of the game itself (see: Nameless King's rollcatch timings). In DS1 and even DS2, once you attained enough system mastery you could generally waltz through the games pretty trivially. This is certainly possible in DS3 as well, but it demands more from the player in terms of adaptation of tactics and attention to gameplay (the source of most of the complaints in this thread I suspect). I entirely disagree and feel that DS3 is the least fair game in the series.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 20:38
|
|
|
Mighty Dicktron posted:I entirely disagree and feel that DS3 is the least fair game in the series. Care to elucidate or you just wanna leave us with the hot take?
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 20:37
|
|
|
IronicDongz posted:the funny thing is that getting up close and strafing right still makes lots of enemies much easier this works for every enemy in the game except greatshield knights and the loving Irithyll gator dogs, the first one of which probably killed me with that quick side swipe bite about thirty times before I tried just keeping my distance and bashing its head gently caress those things
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 20:39
|
|
|
Mighty Dicktron posted:I entirely disagree and feel that DS3 is the least fair game in the series. I disagree and feel DS2 is the least fair game in the series. Maybe it was just my build, but compared to DS1 and 3 I found myself resorting to lame tactics (shooting poo poo to death with a bow) in a way I never had to for the other games.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 20:42
|
|
|
Fullhouse posted:this works for every enemy in the game except greatshield knights and the loving Irithyll gator dogs, the first one of which probably killed me with that quick side swipe bite about thirty times before I tried just keeping my distance and bashing its head pyromancy kicks the poo poo out of them(also almost all enemies tbf) Oxyclean posted:I disagree and feel DS2 is the least fair game in the series.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 20:42
|
|
|
IronicDongz posted:pyromancy kicks the poo poo out of them(also almost all enemies tbf) yeah I've been doing pyromancy for my last run and have yet to find an enemy or boss I can't cheese by standing at midrange and chucking chaos fire orbs at (or dark orbs for the fire immune ones) I just got to the new DLC and I keep hearing the first boss is mostly immune to fire and dark so I might be hosed
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 20:49
|
|
|
IronicDongz posted:pyromancy kicks the poo poo out of them(also almost all enemies tbf) Bows are pretty good for a melee focused character to have. They do good damage when upgraded and don't require any additional stat investment. If you have ranged options from magic already there isn't much point except cheese, but the ability to do consistent damage without having to engage is something everyone can benefit from. They also trivialize some enemies, like the Harald knights.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 20:49
|
|
|
Oxyclean posted:I disagree and feel DS2 is the least fair game in the series. What was your build? DS2 felt great to me because it was the only game that didn't feel like it was punishing you if you tried to use anything other than a straight sword.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 20:51
|
|
|
Sapozhnik posted:What was your build? DS2 felt great to me because it was the only game that didn't feel like it was punishing you if you tried to use anything other than a straight sword. I realize that DS3 has kicked the "straight swords = god" meme into overdrive but this is quite farcical extension of it. DeS and DS1 have shitloads of strong weapons that aren't straight swords.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 20:54
|
|
|
Oxyclean posted:I disagree and feel DS2 is the least fair game in the series. You didn't understand the changes that they made to the game's core combat structure, which is fair. They didn't broadcast it clearly enough, and it left people feeling awfully confused and drove them into resorting to scumbag tactics. DS2's combat structure is focused primarily on encounter-to-encounter management, rather than bonfire-to-bonfire management. The fact that the game throws groups of strong opponents at you is intentional, because taking damage to deal damage is not as big of a concern as it was in DS1. If you end a fight at 1/5th HP, that's fine, because you can then use Lifegems to heal yourself back up to full in little time. It's meant to encourage a more aggressive playstyle where it's totally fine to take a hit or two in the process of killing enemies, which is why enemy groups are larger and it's harder to avoid eating a swing when you go in for damage. The Estus Flask is only supposed to be for quick, emergency healing, and it's something you have to think about when you're going to use. What I think ended up happening is that a lot of people pushed themselves into (to borrow a Lt. Danger phrase) gamer bushido where, coming off of DS1, they thought that using Lifegems was some pansy-rear end poo poo for idiots and unintentionally made the game about two thousand times harder on themselves, because that's not at all what the developers intended, nor what they balanced the combat encounters around.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 21:06
|
|
|
Vermain posted:Iudex's problem is that he turns into the absolute bane of the game's combat system in phase 2: a giant, lumpy mass of tails and arms that does a bunch of weird flailing attacks that are nearly impossible to read. His first phase is only somewhat harder than, say, Dragonrider. Ludex stage 2 is actually fair while the pus of men are not maybe intentionally. He's so tall the flailing doesn't reach the ground to do the roll catch horse poo poo. It works more like gael's cape. Speaking of. Gael stage 1 is another example of changing timings to ambush muscle memory. He'll lurch forward, but struggle to swing the weight of his sword causing a delay after his movement that makes me eat poo poo most of the time. His aggression is also really inconsistent, so you're never sure if you're safe to chug
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 21:09
|
|
|
Vermain posted:What I think ended up happening is that a lot of people pushed themselves into (to borrow a Lt. Danger phrase) gamer bushido where, coming off of DS1, they thought that using Lifegems was some pansy-rear end poo poo for idiots and unintentionally made the game about two thousand times harder on themselves, because that's not at all what the developers intended, nor what they balanced the combat encounters around. I can't use lifegems on nassandra what if I run out?! (Max stock on hand)
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 21:11
|
|
|
DS2 definitely tried to punish muscle memory. Half the enemies in DS1 could be defeated by slowly backpedaling and winding up a big slow attack while they whiffed. The first time one of the turtle shell guys raised his mace over his head and then rushed forward and smashed me I laughed pretty hard.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 21:22
|
|
|
DS2 is the only game in the series where a Deathless/Bonfireless run of the game is possible by intent right out of the gate, so it had to have done something right as far as being fair goes.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 21:23
|
|
|
skasion posted:I realize that DS3 has kicked the "straight swords = god" meme into overdrive but this is quite farcical extension of it. DeS and DS1 have shitloads of strong weapons that aren't straight swords. the easiest weapons to beat ds1 with, if you get them, are black knight weapons. especially the halberd.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 21:31
|
|
|
nice giant door shield    you could not possibly have had a worse matchup than this
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 21:37
|
|
|
Sapozhnik posted:Everything that Lothric Knights do. quote:The tree wielding giants in Farron are also kind of a pain because their attacks all emit homing skulls, leaving you with virtually no opportunity to heal from mistakes on account of the swamp killing your mobility. that's why there's always shallow/dry footing nearby to lure them over to, and their physical attacks are slow and have very little range so you can roll through/around the skulls and just about always have room to do something before the next attack, and estus is super fast in DS3. In other words: Just roll then attack. Mighty Dicktron posted:DS2 is the only game in the series where a Deathless/Bonfireless run of the game is possible by intent right out of the gate, so it had to have done something right as far as being fair goes. can we stop this dumb slobbering all over the dicks of our personal favorite games in the series now? The giant swamp in Valley of Defilement is boring garbage Lost Izalith is unfinished garbage. Covetous Demon is the lamest boss ever Chalice Dungeons blow Smouldering Lake/Demon Ruins Mk 2 is a pallet swap of the Chalice Dungeons mixed with Lost Izalith All Soulsborne games are bad, hail satan. Augus fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Apr 12, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 22:01
|
|
|
Is Blessed even vaguely worth using now?
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 22:04
|
|
|
Augus posted:or its an incidental result of being able to purchase an unlimited supply of healing items That would imply that the entire game was not designed around the assumption that players would have a near-full stack of Lifegems on them at all times, which it clearly wasn't.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 22:11
|
|
|
KingSlime posted:The more I think about it, the more the corrupted dark seems like a nasty side effect of teaming up with the gods, it's a curse placed by humanity as the ringed city reveals. A pollution of humanity. Gwyn was a loving dick since day one and literally caused every thing in dark souls Hell, three of Gwyn's kids are in this game and we can kill all of them except the one Aldrich beat us to. The whole game builds up his monumental failure... and yet, when you get to phase 2 on Soul of Cinder, you do feel a little something for all the exalted lords from Gwyn on whose will kept the fire lit. But it's time to
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 22:14
|
|
|
Sapozhnik posted:What was your build? DS2 felt great to me because it was the only game that didn't feel like it was punishing you if you tried to use anything other than a straight sword. Vermain posted:You didn't understand the changes that they made to the game's core combat structure, which is fair. They didn't broadcast it clearly enough, and it left people feeling awfully confused and drove them into resorting to scumbag tactics. My problem was the overuse of ranged enemies and areas that just threw rear end tons of guys at you once. Lifegems mean nothing when you can't get breathing room because (as mentioned before) you have a conga line of Alonne Knights charging at you while you attempt to defend the 1 square foot that's safe from the many archers in the area (Lest you pick off the archers or knights from a safe distance) Or it's the shrine of amana and you have casters shooting homing poo poo at you 24/7. You also just had unfair poo poo like the big mace dudes in Hiede's who had ridiculous tracking overheads and stupidly high defense against anything that isn't striking. Or the Ogre's grab, which has lame tracking and phantom hitboxes. Speaking of Heide's, in Scholar it becomes 200% harder once you take out Dragonrider, which completely blows if you haven't opened up the Cathedral / Old Dragonslayer yet.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 22:14
|
|
|
Oxyclean posted:
just about every weapon in the game has at least one attack that hits in a wide arc Alonne Knights stagger very easily Archers shoot at regular intervals and you can just roll through their arrows casters you can rush down and kill before turning your attention to their friends disable lock-on to keep track of groups of enemies better, there's even a "No Lock-on" phrase for writing player messages quote:You also just had unfair poo poo like the big mace dudes in Hiede's who had ridiculous tracking overheads and stupidly high defense against anything that isn't striking. quote:Or the Ogre's grab, which has lame tracking and phantom hitboxes. quote:Speaking of Heide's, in Scholar it becomes 200% harder once you take out Dragonrider, which completely blows if you haven't opened up the Cathedral / Old Dragonslayer yet. Either this or the giant fire-breathing dragon that can one-shot you should probably be taken as indicators to come back for the Cathedral later. Which is actually a cool idea because you play through the same area but with a new layer of difficulty added on.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 22:21
|
|
|
yeah on balance I feel SotFS changes made the game worse, not better. Iron Keep in particular used to be this nice neat knot of aggro ranges and greatarrow cover that you had to unpick in a particular order and in SotFS it just turned into a stupid berserker rush of sprinting armored assholes. I'm actually having a lot of trouble thinking of any good changes in SotFS. Certain things just make no sense, like putting the Lost Sinner's key... right on the way to the Lost Sinner. Or putting the Dull Ember in a place that's a short jog from Macduff.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 22:22
|
|
|
Kite Pride Worldwide posted:Is Blessed even vaguely worth using now? It makes your weapon look extremely cool so yes.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 22:27
|
|
|
My new bad opinion is that Dancer is a great fight and really tense and fun at low level. Any death is my fault, I can consistently get her down to second phase. I love the atmosphere of the fight and the sound of her breathing and stomping around.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 22:40
|
|
|
Nakar posted:Consider for a moment that Aldia kept talking about how Flame is a false promise of life and safety, and how unnatural it is. Now consider that he's the Scholar of the First Sin. The First Sin itself is never explicitly stated but it definitely seems that Gwyn is the one who committed it, either by trying to rekindle the First Flame, linking humanity to it as a power source, or possibly just for claiming the First Flame at all. In any case, Gwyn's sins were compounded by his inability and unwillingness to let go of the power he'd claimed and the world he'd built. Dark Souls 3 is thematically all about letting go, giving up, and accepting things. Good point. Plus Myazaki said that DS1 was about killing a god. DS3 was about killing multiple gods (or something to that effect). Maybe he meant that we were mopping up the rest of Gwyn's shitfuck family. Either way, I think the conflict between dark and fire was a bit of a red herring all along as they seem to be much cozier with each other/dependant on each other than previously thought and that's pretty neat. It's the "twist" I was craving (cuz you know every from soft game has to have one or more mindbending twists and so far DS3 was "meh" in that regard).
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 22:43
|
|
|
Sapozhnik posted:yeah on balance I feel SotFS changes made the game worse, not better. Iron Keep in particular used to be this nice neat knot of aggro ranges and greatarrow cover that you had to unpick in a particular order and in SotFS it just turned into a stupid berserker rush of sprinting armored assholes. I'm actually having a lot of trouble thinking of any good changes in SotFS. Certain things just make no sense, like putting the Lost Sinner's key... right on the way to the Lost Sinner. Or putting the Dull Ember in a place that's a short jog from Macduff. Meh even SOTFS iron keep is still very manageable (though not fun). Y'all know they still come in waves, right? Let 2-3 rush you, slaughter them, creep up some more til you see one start heading your way, then repeat without advancing til the next wave is for sure dead and more aren't coming. Tedious? Absolutely. Unfair? Ehh i don't know about that E: Plus if I remember correctly, they removed the obnoxious alonne knight archer who'd blast you from behind as you were trying to peek into the room. I hated that guy in vanilla, felt like I was forced to have a bow (you should still have a bow on you at all times because weapon variety is the spice of undead life) KingSlime fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Apr 12, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 22:46
|
|
|
Oxyclean posted:Could you give me some example of the "gotchas"? Not trying to be snide. My fave thing about Alonne knights was discovering that they could recover from a large weapon hitstun, launch an attack and take off a third of your health bar before you could recover from your own swing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 22:46
|
|
|
Vermain posted:idiots and unintentionally made the game about two thousand times harder on themselves Off topic, but my brother used to talk about how hard it was to get the licenses in Gran Turismo. He thought you had to get gold on every test
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 22:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 07:33 |
|
|
Augus posted:just about every weapon in the game has at least one attack that hits in a wide arc Augus posted:Archers shoot at regular intervals and you can just roll through their arrows Augus posted:casters you can rush down and kill before turning your attention to their friends Augus posted:Just roll. Or sprint. Augus posted:Either this or the giant fire-breathing dragon that can one-shot you should probably be taken as indicators to come back for the Cathedral later.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 22:57
|
|