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Hey nerds it says in thr books that the stealth ship was only visible as a tiny spot in space 2 degrees warmer than background Maybe people aren't paying attention to an infitessimally small spot in space thats 2 degrees warmer than background
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Apr 12, 2017 21:05
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Yeah expanse has magic stealth tech as well as magic drive tech. People are sperging out over if it would be possible in real life, which is a big no.
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Apr 12, 2017 21:09
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It'd be 100% possible to track everything in the system with modern technology, much less whatever they've got a few centuries in the future. I think the way The Expanse gets around this is that the solar system is developed enough that it's easier and cheaper to track traffic via the transponders every ship has to have on at all times. Now, I'm 100% sure that Mars and the UN have back-up thermal and optical systems to track everything if they ever need it, but they're not constantly looking at the entire system 24/7 because why bother? During peacetime, as long as you can keep eyes on the other guy's naval bases to see what comes and goes that's enough. Also, stealth ships in The Expanse are SUPER stealthy, like barely warmer than the background at all and a tiny little object that nobody would notice anyways. Chalk it up to REALLY good heat sinks or whatever, Atomic Rockets isn't the be all end all resource for what works and doesn't work in this imaginary universe. E: Beaten Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Apr 12, 2017 |
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Apr 12, 2017 21:13
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Even if you can theoretically track every object in the solar system, is that information going to be practically usable? All the known natural objects at least stick to their orbits, but between any uncatalogued natural object, every bit of space traffic (a lot of which runs dark), and any sort of derelicts or large enough debris, it seems like you'd have all of the problems of big data to deal with to actually find something useful in there. Unless you know specifically where and what to look for, what's to distinguish a stealth ship (that's not currently lighting up its drive, obviously) from an unidentified asteroid or random piece of space junk? The Earth and Mars governments may well have telescopes noting every single thing that pops above the background radiation and sending it to a big computer, but all that means jack without some good way of separating the wheat from the chaff.
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Apr 12, 2017 21:36
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I'm genuinely curious - can we actually track every moving object in the system from Earth orbit today? Allowing for the fact Expanse probably has hundreds or thousand of ships, lots of them unregistered. Plus derelicts, and glorified tents sitting on asteroids, and countless bits of maybe functioning technology that got ditched when it broke or shot off of something bigger? I'd imagine there would just be too many unexplained objects and false positives, but with the power of computing who knows? Strategic Tea fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Apr 12, 2017 |
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Apr 12, 2017 21:47
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Also notice that the so called stealth ships were detected when they burned toward the donnager
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Apr 12, 2017 21:48
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Strategic Tea posted:I'm genuinely curious - can we actually track every moving object in the system from Earth orbit today? If we're just talking space rocks in the real world? Nope, not at all. All those "passing us X distance from the moon" are usually only spotted weeks out. The Expanse can handwave away tracking all ships because of rebroadcasting and the such. Its a pretty big deal in The Expanse universe to be running with no transponder on.
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Apr 12, 2017 21:54
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Strategic Tea posted:I'm genuinely curious - can we actually track every moving object in the system from Earth orbit today? Allowing four the fact Expanse probably has hundreds or thousand of ships, lots of them unregistered. Plus derelicts, and glorified tents sitting on asteroids, and countless bits of maybe functioning technology that got ditched when it broke or shot off of something bigger? Yes, computers can do math (right now) that can pick out objects of note. Sure you detected 3 billion distinct objects on your scan pass, but you know which are ships and which are stations and which are asteroids because all that data is in the system. You're not shocked at that large rock that's been on your system forever because it keeps showing up exactly where you'd' expect it to be, you are shocked though when that asteroid changes course. It's like how your eyes/brain work. You instantly pick out moving objects against a static background. Sure there might be billions of objects showing up on your scans, but you're looking for the ones that are moving in certain ways or on certain courses, which are very easy to pick out no matter how big the numbers are. Your system detects a cargo ship leaving Butterscotch station, it logged a flight plan and its current burn/trajectory match 100%. A military transport just left a small asteroid hanger, it's from a rival power so that's all you know but you give special attention to enemy stations/bases as well as any objects with courses going to/from them. Maybe you didn't detect the launch because it was launched while behind jupiter, but a new hot object was detected in the sky, after a couple passes you know it's exact speed and heading and can accurately predict its course. Since you do this with every ship in space you know that this is most likely the supply ship that docked a week ago making its return trip on schedule. But wait, it's course is slightly different this month so you point some extra attention at it. You get your best military telescopes to give it a closer look and you confirm it's the same transport, but it looks like they've welded some extra external cargo pods on but you can't quite read the registry numbers on the boxes, better pass this on to military intelligence. Legally every ship and object in space would need some sort of official transponder, but tracking would never rely on it alone, it would just help match up objects with their owners and compare to logged flight plans and instantly red-flag any illegal flight or ship going off-course. A single ship off course or coming in too fast could destroy a station or crash into a city, a single forgotten cargo container could impact and destroy a ship. Tracking everything would be a life or death safety issue, add in the military and commercial/regulatory angle and the system would be all eyes on everything at all times with multiple layers of redundancy.
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Apr 12, 2017 22:10
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For the most part, yeah, but it sounds like that still relies on having the data in the system as you say. Nobody is going to record a sealed cargo crate some Belters used to squat in while waiting for their buddies' ship to swing by, or an illegal mining operation. Or a ship that enters a scrapyard as an old freighter and leaves as two improvised OPA engines-with-a-seat-on-the-front. At which point how do you tell the cargo crate with life support bolted on from the dormant OPA pirate ship? E: The moment you try to fly it anywhere though...
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Apr 12, 2017 22:26
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Yo momma so fat she blocked the whole system surveillance array.
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Apr 12, 2017 22:37
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Yo momma so fat she conceals seamen better than Uranus.
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Apr 12, 2017 22:45
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Yo momma so fat even using the sun as an incinerator they couldn't make believable CGI disintegrate her body.
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Apr 12, 2017 22:53
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Yo mamma so fat, ships can do a gravity-assist off her when she goes shopping. For more food.
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Apr 12, 2017 22:56
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Strategic Tea posted:I'm genuinely curious - can we actually track every moving object in the system from Earth orbit today? I don't know about system-wide (someone pointed out the planetary/moon occlusion problem), but we can't even track every Near Earth Object yet. As has been pointed out though, that's just a problem of funding/manpower. Tracking objects coming from the same direction the Sun is, is an even bigger issue.
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Apr 12, 2017 22:56
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Baronjutter posted:It's like how your eyes/brain work. You instantly pick out moving objects against a static background. Sure there might be billions of objects showing up on your scans, but you're looking for the ones that are moving in certain ways or on certain courses, which are very easy to pick out no matter how big the numbers are. Your system detects a cargo ship leaving Butterscotch station, it logged a flight plan and its current burn/trajectory match 100%. A military transport just left a small asteroid hanger, it's from a rival power so that's all you know but you give special attention to enemy stations/bases as well as any objects with courses going to/from them. Maybe you didn't detect the launch because it was launched while behind jupiter, but a new hot object was detected in the sky, after a couple passes you know it's exact speed and heading and can accurately predict its course. Since you do this with every ship in space you know that this is most likely the supply ship that docked a week ago making its return trip on schedule. But wait, it's course is slightly different this month so you point some extra attention at it. You get your best military telescopes to give it a closer look and you confirm it's the same transport, but it looks like they've welded some extra external cargo pods on but you can't quite read the registry numbers on the boxes, better pass this on to military intelligence. You made me think of a trilogy I read ages ago (the Heritage Trilogy), where there was a very creative attack that used the fact that everyone would be watching everything as a massive slight of hand. The books were fun, but unremarkable for the most part. The author did have some clever tactics for military engagements in space and on other planets/moons. I had to search to remember if I had the details right and found someone had already summarized it on another forum. quote:Probably the most creative space tactic I ever read was in the (otherwise undistinguished, IMO) book "Europa Strike". It goes like that: Proteus Jones fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Apr 12, 2017 |
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Apr 12, 2017 23:05
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Yo momma so basic she provides for 95% of Earth's population
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Apr 12, 2017 23:58
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Strategic Tea posted:For the most part, yeah, but it sounds like that still relies on having the data in the system as you say. Nobody is going to record a sealed cargo crate some Belters used to squat in while waiting for their buddies' ship to swing by, or an illegal mining operation. So, here's the go to example that's usually used for this question: https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/voyager/multimedia/pia17047.html We can "see" Voyager with radio telescopes. Voyager is 116 AU away and broadcasting with a power roughly equivalent to a ham radio. Anything with enough heat for people to be onboard is going to be bright enough that we could scan the sky for it very, very quickly and it's going to be obvious enough that even modern computers could pick it out from the background with no problem. If travel time in the Expanse is measured in days then there's really no way that anything could hide, even if it was powered down and coasting. The big issue is that any spaceship would have to be so bright that you wouldn't need sensitive or high resolution instruments to detect it. You could easily have some kind of very fast system doing a quick, continuous scan of the sky and then something with better resolution to focus in automatically on any anomalies.
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Apr 13, 2017 00:49
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yo momma so big even the protomolecule couldn't move her out of the way of the Nauvoo
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Apr 13, 2017 00:49
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looks like we'll finally get to see Mr. Blue Protoman in the next ep. good thing cuz I am getting Blue Protoballs over here.
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Apr 13, 2017 04:04
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uber_stoat posted:looks like we'll finally get to see Mr. Blue Protoman in the next ep. good thing cuz I am getting Blue Protoballs over here. I wonder if he has a huge blue penis.
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Apr 13, 2017 04:41
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R-Type posted:I wonder if he has a huge blue penis. Hard to tell behind the cutoff shorts.
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Apr 13, 2017 05:22
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Bobbie eating all the cucumber appies.  
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Apr 13, 2017 05:29
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Man Errinwright sure did repay his friends, holy poo poo. Holden's was really off the rails this episode too. A very stressful episode. I almost forgot about the episode, I'm usually reminded by all the post-episode chatter in this thread but ya'll pretty quiet. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Apr 13, 2017 |
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Apr 13, 2017 06:23
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Holden is becoming more and more like Batman everyday with that armor and voice.
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Apr 13, 2017 06:30
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I'm also the spaceship without any sort of alarms that go off when something rips open the outer airlock door?
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Apr 13, 2017 06:31
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Maybe they suppressed the alarms? I can't imagine a gunship would like going spelunking.
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Apr 13, 2017 06:35
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Oh my god I love Bobbie so much she is the best character ehehehe
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Apr 13, 2017 07:15
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uber_stoat posted:looks like we'll finally get to see Mr. Blue Protoman in the next ep. good thing cuz I am getting Blue Protoballs over here. Maybe this is where their budget went
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Apr 13, 2017 07:30
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Strange that no one ever live-posts during this show. Anyway, I don't remember the meeting with Mao going down that way in the books, but maybe I'm mis-remembering. And apparently everyone hates show-Holden, but I thought that was a pretty good "gently caress yeah, Holden!" moment at the end of the episode. You guys get pretty wrapped up in Holden's obsession with destroying the protomolecule, but it's your basic Ahab and the white whale situation. Sure it's been done to death, but it's not egregiously done here. Eros is the inciting incident of it and then it just goes from there.
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Apr 13, 2017 08:41
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Longbaugh01 posted:Strange that no one ever live-posts during this show. Holden is a little one dimensional and the acting isn't mind blowing, but I think his character is pretty consistent and understandable. It is become clear that containing the protomolecule is less and less possible, but I can see the logic of trying to close one loose end.
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Apr 13, 2017 09:08
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logikv9 posted:I'm also the spaceship without any sort of alarms that go off when something rips open the outer airlock door? They did take a bit of missile damage so the sensors might have been damaged.
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Apr 13, 2017 09:19
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I want to BANG the protomolecyle monster
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Apr 13, 2017 09:34
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https://fat.gfycat.com/PlasticAdeptIndusriverdolphin.mp4 https://fat.gfycat.com/KindSeparateEmu.mp4 https://fat.gfycat.com/ImmaculateForthrightGreyhounddog.mp4 https://giant.gfycat.com/AstonishingWelltodoCougar.mp4 https://fat.gfycat.com/UnimportantNextBluegill.mp4 https://zippy.gfycat.com/ScholarlyInsistentAlbertosaurus.mp4 https://giant.gfycat.com/BasicValuableBaleenwhale.mp4 https://fat.gfycat.com/LankySlimyCattle.mp4 Platystemon fucked around with this message at 10:03 on Apr 13, 2017 |
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Apr 13, 2017 09:53
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Bobbie is my waifu 
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Apr 13, 2017 09:57
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She is fat discuss
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Apr 13, 2017 10:04
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Zzulu posted:She is fat Nothing will meet the standards of your anime pillow.
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Apr 13, 2017 10:56
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TV is good
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Apr 13, 2017 11:11
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Bobby going all in on those cucumber sandwiches made my goddamn week.
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Apr 13, 2017 12:35
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Pompous Rhombus posted:Bobby going all in on those cucumber sandwiches made my goddamn week. I'm choosing to believe that it's nothing to do with the scarcity of proper fresh vegetables on Mars, and that Bobby just really loving loves cucumber.
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Apr 13, 2017 14:14
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Longbaugh01 posted:Anyway, I don't remember the meeting with Mao going down that way in the books, but maybe I'm mis-remembering. You're not, it's almost entirely different. No future events spoiled below, but: At this point in the book, the political charades are still going on. Mao isn't on the lam, and neither he nor Errinwright has been publicly/officially implicated in any of the Protomolecule poo poo. Errinwright tells Avasarala to oversee Ganymede relief efforts, and to get there by way of Mao's ship. Avasarala knows Errinwright's trying to keep her from interfering with the real poo poo that's going down, but she doesn't see a way to refuse that doesn't take her out of the game, and she doesn't believe that he'd be so crass as to just kill her. The calculus changes when Mao lets slip over dinner that he's not going all the way to Ganymede with them.
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Apr 13, 2017 14:15
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