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 （╬ಠ益ಠ)Yeah, I'm still going with my theory that it was Jessica who called originally, but now Kannon and Shannon ("Shkannon" is you believe in the Shannon=Kanon theory) are definitely now involved in the prank calling. Shannon has always been suspect numero uno for the other gameboards and it's no different here. I'm interested in seeing how Hideyoshi's murderer (Shannon?) is going to get out of the room, and whether Natsuhi can follow them out. Otherwise Natsuhi's going to be in a hell of a lot of trouble for letting someone get murdered and not bothering to help.
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Apr 12, 2017 06:05
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| # ? May 14, 2024 09:42 |
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 BGM: Closed my Heart Gohda was gripping some wire cutters to cut the chain with. After trying to open the door again and confirming that the chain was still set, she yelled through the crack in the door.  "Dear!! We're going to open this up...!! Cut it right now!!" "Y, yes...!"Gohda stuck the large wire cutter, which looked like it could slice off a whole finger, and easily severed the chain. "Dear!!"As soon as it was severed, Eva pushed Gohda aside and dashed in. The others tried to follow her, but they bumped into Eva, who had fallen to her knees, moaning. So even though they couldn't tell much of what was going on inside the room, they could tell by Eva's moans that they were too late...   "Dear...!! Deeeeeeeeeeeear!! Doctor Nanjo!! Look at my husband...! Quickly!!" "I, I'll do it right now..." "You've got to be kidding me... It's only been about ten minutes since Uncle Hideyoshi went out saying he wanted to rest..." "...Is there anyone in the bathroom?" "N, no...! There's no one here!" "What could have happened, aaaaaahhhh..." "Dear!! Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeear...!!" "...I'm afraid to say... that there's nothing I can do..."Nanjo stood up, hanging his head sadly. It was only natural. Because anyone, even if they weren't a doctor, would think that at a glance.  When Eva pulled it out with all her might, they could tell that it wasn't a blade, but some kind of stake. And its sharp tip had penetrated nearly 15 centimeters in. It had probably dug deep into the lungs. If it had been stuck in any harder, the tip might even have pierced all the way through to the surface of his chest... "Didn't I tell you to wait for me?!!Why did you go on alone...?!! Stupid, stupid, stupiiiiiiiiid!! Uwaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh!!"  "...The culprit probably waited for us to get careless and split up..." "That bastard... So he still hasn't had enough blood...?!" "So he really is... hiding somewhere in this mansion... and coming after us...?" "But there's something strange here. The doors and windows to this room are completely sealed." "...ah. Th, that's right. The shutters are all shut, and the chain was on the door until a second ago..." "Huh?! Isn't that bizarre...?! In that case, how did the culprit attack Hideyoshi-san in this room...?!" "Perhaps they threw this stake through the crack in the door...!" "Hideyoshi-san's bed is in a total blind spot from this crack. You couldn't even kill him with a gun. This really is strange. It's a closed room murder." "A, a closed room murder..." "...It's a bit too early to be sure about that. Maybe he removed the ceiling in the bathroom and escaped to the space above it, or maybe you can close the shutters from outside." BGM: Smile-less Soiree  "...Erika..."It's no wonder everything felt so quiet and relaxed. At some point, Erika had split from the group. Just now, she had finally arrived and poked her face in from the hallway. When she heard that a crime had occurred in this room, she had watched everyone rush towards the room, but circled around to the outer wall herself. And she had gone all by herself to check that the shutter was down on the window, that you couldn't do anything with it from the outside, and that there was nothing out of the ordinary.  "Is the inside of the room just like usual...?" "...There's no need to say it like that." "My deepest condolences. So? What's the situation inside the room?" "..." "...The chain was set on the door, so we cut it and entered." "And all the windows have the shutters down. They're locked tight from the inside." "...What are they bickering about in there?"Eva was arguing with Nanjo about something. Apparently, she wanted to carry the corpse to the parlor. Nanjo tried to calm her, saying that they should leave the crime scene as untouched as possible until the police came.  "What happened to the other corpses?! The culprit carried them off somewhere, right?! It may be that the culprit isn't satisfied with just killing, but intends to do something with the corpses...!! So no way! No way we're leaving my husband all alone here!!"Eva does have a point. After all, the victims before now have all been carried away after we were shown their terrible wounds.  "...Erika-chan. You'd probably like to preserve the crime scene, but could you just let this one slide...?" "...Do whatever you want. All I'm interested in is the fact that a closed room has appeared that's much more serious than Kinzo-san's study. I have no interest in corpses, so do as you please." "..."Battler's expression was clearly unhappy, but she ignored him completely.  Erika backed away from the door to open a path. There was no trace of any sadness for the dead. Her eyes simply blazed at the thought of this closed room murder that had appeared. In any event, the great detective had given her permission. Eva and some others wrapped Hideyoshi up in the sheets, and Gohda and Rudolf carried him out... The sheets were quickly stained red. It was so painful to see that Shannon and Kumasawa stripped the blanket off the bed to further cover the corpse...  "...Hey, out of the way." "Yes, I am out of the way." "Let's go to the parlor." "Y, yes...!" "Dear, deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeear, awaaaaaaaahhhhh...!!" "...Listen up, everyone. From now on, we'll always move as a group. You must not let yourself be isolated." "When the culprit attacked Genji, he probably got a master key. It's clear that even locking up will no longer make you safe." "B, but... even the chain was set. How did they do it...?!" "...It's impossible... The shutters and the chain were firmly set. Even with a master key, it's impossible to force your way into that room...!" "It must have been Beatrice-sama's doing, oooohhhhh..." "...Th, there's no way Beatrice-sama did this... The epitaph has been solved, so there shouldn't be any more reason to hold the ceremony..." "How could we understand it...? This is impossible for anyone except a witch...!" "...Impossible for anyone except a witch... you say? <Good>! Has a nice ring to it." "Erika-chan, are you listening? We've decided to stick together from now on. First, we're carrying Hideyoshi-san's corpse to the parlor. Can you hold off playing detective until we get there?" "..."When she heard the words 'playing detective', Erika grimaced visibly. Then, everyone stumbled out, and she took a single step into the now empty guest room, looked around, and burned that scene into her eyes. Erika claimed to have a photographic memory. If that was true, those few seconds were more than enough for her. Later on, she could sip black tea in the parlor while perusing the photograph of the scene inside her memory, playing the part of an armchair detective...  ...A closet for hanging overcoats. If it was large enough to fit a coat on a hanger, a person should be able to hide in it... Slowly, Erika... stretched her hand out towards the closet... "...ah-"Erika's shoulder was grabbed roughly from behind.   "Well, whenever I go traveling, someone always dies." "Hey, what do you think you're doing, brats?! Come quickly...!!"Rudolf told them to hurry. After clicking her tongue and glaring at the closet, Erika followed Battler back to the parlor for the time being...  BGM: None That time of terror, when I feared that even the dripping of the cold sweat that covered my cheeks might be noticed, had finally... ended. With my hand that still couldn't stop trembling, I slowly opened the closet door and dashed out into the hallway. It's alright, no one's found me... Still, it's a good thing they didn't lock the door... If they had, I wouldn't be able to lock behind me after I left, and they'd find that suspicious... Anyway, I should leave this place. Then I'll return to my room and pretend that I was sleeping the whole time... Yes, if I don't get back soon... A new murder has occurred. They'll probably try to tell me about it. And they'll probably do it shortly after they carry Hideyoshi-san's corpse back to the parlor. I can get around a phone call by saying I was asleep and didn't notice, but if they come knocking directly, that'll be bad... I have to get back quickly, before they try to force their way in...  BGM: Stupefaction At the very least, it'll be bad if I bump into them on their way back to the parlor. Anyway, I'll head to my room... at a quick pace, without being noticed by anyone...! I passed through the hall... to the lobby. If I go up the big staircase in the lobby, my room is just a little bit...  BGM: Fishy Aroma  "Hya-...ah...!!"Just as she was about to go up the large staircase, Natsuhi heard Erika call out to her, and was so surprised that she visibly jumped.   "Th, thank you very much. Did something happen...?" "...Just now, Natsuhi-san. You were climbing the stairs, right...? Your room is upstairs, isn't it...?"Erika coldly pointed out this strange fact. Natsuhi cursed her bad luck. "I, I couldn't sleep, so I was going to return to the parlor, b, but I wasn't sure whether I had locked my room or not, so I was about to head back. I'm a worrier, so this sort of thing happens a lot. Don't worry about it..." "Yeah, this sort of thing does happen a lot. It's a common quirk among people who aren't confident in their ability to remember things."Normally, she would have realized that Erika was clearly making fun of her, and might have put on an annoyed expression. However, right now, Natsuhi was extremely relieved to hear Erika admit that this sort of thing happened a lot...  "Why are you by yourself, Erika-san...?" "I thought I'd investigate that guest room." "Guest room...?" "Yep. It's gotten pretty serious, hasn't it? And investigating the scene of the crime is my right."...Erika's probing gaze peered deep into Natsuhi's eyes. She could tell. Erika was already suspecting Natsuhi. Judging by the subtle nuance in her words, she must be planning to make me slip up and reveal that I know about the crime with Hideyoshi when I supposedly haven't been told about it yet. Natsuhi played dumb and asked what had happened again.  "..." "...I, is something wrong...?" "No. It's nothing. This is just a repeat of the first crime, isn't it?" "What do you mean...?" "Again, you were in your room. And again, you can't prove your alibi, can you?" "...I don't know what you mean. To turn it around, how can you prove that I wasn't in my room...?" "Ah, that. Then let's take this one step at a time. Please worry about your lock later. I have something vitally important to discuss with everyone." "I'll come back after I check my lock. Please get started without me." "...Hideyoshi-san has been killed. We'll be talking about that." "Wh, what...?!" However, now that she had been informed of Hideyoshi's murder... It would be clearly suspicious to postpone that and escape to her room. She was already under suspicion just because she had been seen heading up the stairs to the second floor. She couldn't afford to do anything else suspicious... Natsuhi gave up and headed for the parlor as Erika had urged her to do...  And everyone glanced at Natsuhi with grave faces. Those gazes almost made it look... as though they suspected Natsuhi. It was now painfully apparent to Natsuhi. This must have been what that man was after. It was a trap to create a baffling closed room mystery... and try to frame her for it. However, she couldn't have resisted. She couldn't sacrifice her husband's life...! And while it's true that I hid in the closet, that's all. I definitely haven't committed murder! I might be extremely suspicious, but I'm not the culprit. And most importantly, I'm not under suspicion yet. I'll tell the police everything. I'll have to endure until then. I'm sure one of the servants is the traitor. Even in a situation like this, if I talk about my husband being a hostage, the culprit will hear, and it might be used as an excuse to kill him...   "...Something very important...?" "Yes, it's very important. I'd like to lay out everything in front of you all, starting with the first crime." "Then please do that with just the others. I think we should leave that sort of thing to the police. I'm not interested." "Since I have it all laid out, this is a very important thing to discuss. Neither you nor anyone else has the right to refuse." "Wha..."Erika used her detective's authority to proclaim the start of an assembly. None of the pieces could disobey. Praying that she wouldn't become the topic of conversation, Natsuhi reluctantly sat on the sofa as she'd been urged to. "...Oh, sorry. Could you close that door for me?"  ""Y, yes...""Shannon and Kanon closed the door. Since they had just now decided to lock all doors and windows carefully, Kanon locked it. The lock which existed to protect the safety of this room... felt like a lock on a prison cell to Natsuhi... one that would hold her there and prevent any escape... ...Natsuhi still hadn't noticed. Though Erika had gone into the corridor to check the crime scene in Hideyoshi's room... her goal had changed. In other words, from Erika's point of view, the sound of that lock was truly... "Checkmate."   "Oh, fast! Wow, so you've figured out the culprit already? We've barely gotten to any of the crimes, right? You could've just let me kill a few more and gathered a few clues yourse~lf." "...Alright, Lambda, gather all of the pieces. Now we're getting to the most interesting part. Let's both enjoy it to the fullest." "Well, let's see... Why don't you show me what you've got? *giggle*giggle*...!!" "To think that she'd lay down the challenge without waiting for game set at 24:00...! What a hasty person, that Lady Bernkastel...!" "It is quite an early challenge. To think that she's already managed to get a winning hand at this stage..." "...Normally, you can win by just claiming that a witch exists, but with Natsuhi and Kinzo, we've got a lot we need to protect this time. Sounds like this fight'll be a pain." "That's no problem at all! I won't let them do as they please with my golden island any more...!!" "Bring it on, Lady Bernkastel! Furudo Erika!" BGM: None Battler was nowhere to be seen. It would very soon reach the time that Battler had joined in on the 5th game, and control of the pieces would be passed on to Battler. In other words, he would only be officially added to the game now, in this final stage, where Bernkastel had pinpointed the culprit. So, he had left the arbor a short while ago. Now, the only ones in sight were Virgilia, who continued to knit silently, and Beato, who just sat there blankly amidst the smell of her black tea, not even putting the cup to her lips... Virgilia stopped knitting for a moment... and looked out across the vast golden rose garden that extended as far as the eye could see.  "...I think we can say that Battler-kun has gained the power to never again surrender... in the game about who the culprit is." "..." "By the 4th game, you sent him all the messages. In other words, at this time, Battler-kun is capable of realizing the truth at any moment. However, he is naive. Therefore. Even if the games continue at this rate a hundred times, he won't solve it for all eternity. He'll just wander forever like someone trying to find the blue bird." BGM: Voiceless It's the same for you. Even if this game continues hundreds more times. You will never reach the answer you seek... for all eternity. Bernkastel will abuse this game without a doubt. Lambdadelta will also churn this game about with the utmost arrogance. At a glance, that may be humiliating and appear to you and Battler as though the game had been stolen from you. ...However. That is something the two of you need right now. To end Battler's naivety. To end your hesitation.  "..." "Those two will bring you either victory or defeat. But no matter how it goes, that result has already been filled with compassion. You should understand that as well by now."Virgilia faced Beato, whom she had come to adore as a daughter, with cold eyes that she must not have shown often. It was like the gaze of a mother who, instead of scolding, silently urges their child to recognize their mistake.   "..." "I am Virgilia. I have guided him through Purgatory and brought him to you at its peak. And you are Beatrice. You must choose whether to take his hand and rise up to heaven or grab him and fall into hell."Did you know that the discord called Purgatory, which lies in the gap between heaven and hell, is sometimes more torturous than even hell itself...? On the gates of hell, it is written that you must abandon all hope. A human without hope can accept their suffering and give up. However, the residents of Purgatory have hope. A hope of possibly reaching heaven, a hope that cannot be abandoned. And that tortures them. Even in the depths of hell, no greater torture device exists than the single pin known as hope...  Beato was silent, but with a single tear, she nodded slightly. "Is the cat in the box alive or dead? The time has now come... to check. If the cat is dead, quickly hold a funeral for it and have it rise to heaven. If the cat is alive, quickly feed it and give it all of your affection. Whether it is alive or dead, your cat box eternally desecrates the cat. The key to the box which you were afraid to open... has been brought to you by those two people."  
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Apr 12, 2017 13:29
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So I guess Battler's nickname/real name is Dante now? I would of figured it out sooner if he had silver hair.
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Apr 12, 2017 14:35
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Yeah. It's finally paying off the Inferno references. Is anyone well versed in it to link characters across the works? Even for someone who read it once at school a long time ago, Virgil/Virgilia and Beatrice are obvious, but are there any more than that?ProfessorProf posted:In any event, the great detective had given her permission. Eva and some others wrapped Hideyoshi up in the sheets, and Gohda and Rudolf carried him out... The sheets were quickly stained red. It was so painful to see that Shannon and Kumasawa stripped the blanket off the bed to further cover the corpse... If we think Shannon's involved, lets go with this: There was something on the blanket that incriminated the murderer. Shannon and Kumasawa were disposing of the evidence.
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Apr 12, 2017 15:13
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RedMagus posted:So I guess Battler's nickname/real name is Dante now? I would of figured it out sooner if he had silver hair. 
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Apr 12, 2017 15:39
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CottonWolf posted:If we think Shannon's involved, lets go with this: If that's the case, it's fair proof that Kumasawa is in on it, which is pretty big. It's also becoming clear that Erika can "win" by pinning all the crimes on Natsuhi: Knox's rules don't actually say that the person who's declared the culprit for the murder has to be the actual perpetrator, which is a pretty abusive way to get around the whole "no magic" thing. Of course, that might also bite Erika in the rear end if someone points out that Battler himself was also in the room where most of the murders occurred, and since he now has the gold, some accomplices for the other murders might not be too hard to buy. As for the actual murderer, only George had his corpse checked by everyone, so that makes Jessica's death suspicious as hell now that the bodies are missing: if she helped kill Hideyoshi, it would start to make a whole lot of sense that he would freak out.
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Apr 12, 2017 17:38
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Something I want to ask is, is Natsuhi a reliable point of view at this time? She imagines Beatrice and Kinzo and all those other demons, she may have imagined herself in the closet the entire time. And another thing, is Krauss a non-player in all of this? I think that it's possible that he had a hand in Hideyoshi's death, not many other people could have overpowered him on the island.
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Apr 12, 2017 17:55
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Is it bad that I think this is kawaii?
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Apr 12, 2017 18:00
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thetruegentleman posted:As for the actual murderer, only George had his corpse checked by everyone, so that makes Jessica's death suspicious as hell now that the bodies are missing: if she helped kill Hideyoshi, it would start to make a whole lot of sense that he would freak out. This... ProfessorProf posted:Kyrie-san and I covered the other corpses up to their heads with their blankets, just like George-aniki's... So that they wouldn't have to undergo any more shame... with their terrible wounds exposed like this... ProfessorProf posted:
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Apr 12, 2017 18:06
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"Hmm? Red? Well, there's no point in me holding out against you. That's right, At a glance, anyone could confirm that these corpses are dead, so it is absolutely impossible that they are just people playing dead."
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CottonWolf posted:This... That's actually a big part of why this seems so suspicious: they could confirm it, but that brings up the question of whether or not they *actually did*. They also might not be playing dead: Jessica could have been drugged to actually be sleeping, and not just playing dead. More importantly, the only person we know who actually looked at all the corpses is Battler: Kyrie covered them with blankets up to the head, but it never said that she checked the wounds herself.
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Apr 12, 2017 18:59
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thetruegentleman posted:That's actually a big part of why this seems so suspicious: they could confirm it, but that brings up the question of whether or not they *actually did*. I think it means that literally anyone, including you and me, could confirm they're definitely dead simply by looking at them, but your interpretation is valid. Since nobody can look at them, they're cats in a box.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:10
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bman in 2288 posted:Something I want to ask is, is Natsuhi a reliable point of view at this time? She imagines Beatrice and Kinzo and all those other demons, she may have imagined herself in the closet the entire time. And another thing, is Krauss a non-player in all of this? I think that it's possible that he had a hand in Hideyoshi's death, not many other people could have overpowered him on the island. I think almost no one is a reliable viewpoint. If something isn't in red then it might not be real. CottonWolf posted:This... Anyone looking could tell they were dead, but that doesn't help if the people looking we're in on it or didn't actually look. Genji was observed by the least people so he's the most suspicious there. We still don't know what the tape over the door meant. Though she does say it's absolutely impossible that they were people who were playing dead. Is that a statement of its own, or is it supposed to follow from the previous part of the sentence? Is it independently true, or only true if they were observed to be dead by someone reliable? So this closed room was obviously incredibly porous, since Natsuhi got out unseen. And Erika is an atrocious detective - "no interest in corpses", holy crap. Furudo Erika is incompetetent. Qrr fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Apr 12, 2017 |
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Apr 12, 2017 19:16
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thetruegentleman posted:That's actually a big part of why this seems so suspicious: they could confirm it, but that brings up the question of whether or not they *actually did*. They also might not be playing dead: Jessica could have been drugged to actually be sleeping, and not just playing dead. Unless you think Battler and Kyrie are both in on it, there's not really anywhere to go along the line of logic that they were "playing dead". That would violate the red, and this time it was absurdly explicit. I really think the only ones that it could be here are Natsuhi and Krauss. Krauss is by far my favourite for the caller, but that last murder looked like it could only be Natsuhi unless there was another spot someone could hide.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:18
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thetruegentleman posted:That's actually a big part of why this seems so suspicious: they could confirm it, but that brings up the question of whether or not they *actually did*. They also might not be playing dead: Jessica could have been drugged to actually be sleeping, and not just playing dead. Ah. I see your point. I'd completely missed that. Let's break this red text down line by line in detail then, as it clearly requires it: ...anyone looking at George, Jessica, Maria, Rosa or Genji's corpses could confirm at a glance that they were dead. As you point out, could implies possibility, rather than certainty. It's possible that someone who saw their corpses could have confirmed at a glance that they were dead. Now that I think about it though, a bigger problem with this line of red is corpses. Given that we already know that the red text can be deliberately temporally tricky, the fact that if you saw their corpses you could possibly confirm their deaths is actually a completely meaningless statement. It both doesn't confirm their deaths (Who knows who and when someone is seeing their corpses? Maybe it's years later after they've died a natural death) and doesn't confirm that if you saw them that you'd know they were dead. Maybe the next line's better? At a glance, anyone could confirm that these corpses are dead, so it is absolutely impossible that they are just people playing dead. Confirmed corpses! In this case the these applies to the corpses in front of them, which Gapp supposedly took. So there are corpses. These corpses here. By definition a corpse cannot be alive. Again anyone could confirm they were dead. The fact that no-one has done is irrelevant to us as the observers. The characters in story may not know for sure that these corpses are dead, but we do. Because they're called corpses in red text. It is absolutely certain that these corpses are not just people playing dead. Of course, these corpses handily do not actually have any names attached in red. Opps! So you're right, thetruegentleman, that red text tells you basically nothing. E: That said, with enough butchering of language, any sentence can be rendered ambiguous. I guess the question is, does Virgilia gain anything by misleading people here? She's not talking to anyone who she'd benefit from confusing. Presumably both Battler and Bern can see the red text. Lambda already knows exactly what's happening, so it's not for her "benefit". She's also very much Beato's piece, so I tend to assume that she was attempting to help Battler with this. He's not helped in any obvious way by being misled. It's possible that she'd want to mislead Bern, but I tend to think that she'd be clever enough to find the holes if that's the case. Given Battler's incompetence, he probably requires a push towards the right answer. So maybe we can take these statements at face value? CottonWolf fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Apr 12, 2017 |
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Apr 12, 2017 19:22
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Another thing to keep in mind is the temporal aspect. These corpses are dead right now, but that doesn't mean that they were dead when they were seen in bed before; it's possible that one of them faked their death to help dispose of the other bodies, then was later killed by a confederate, leaving nothing but corpses. I'm less keen on the culprit being Krauss, although it would solve a number of problems. The main issue there is that it seems like the goal of all of this is to put pressure on Natsuhi, and Krauss is the only person in the family that doesn't want to do that. In fact, he wants the opposite of that! Natsuhi is his only ally in trying to keep the Legend Of Kinzo alive for one more year. It's hard to say what happened in this scene, because Natsuhi didn't see it, and since we were following her point of view, neither did we. Even the stuff after is a bit muddled; it talks about "everyone" and some people are here, but were all of them together in the hall? Could someone have been hidden elsewhere in the room (under the bed, say) and managed to inveigle themselves into the group in the confusion? Did it mean literally everyone alive, or just everyone in a certain area? Erika's arrival is announced, so we know she wasn't with the group, which means it can't have been literally everyone on the island. (The locations of our suspects are important for obvious reasons.) Speaking of following her point of view, if Knox's rules are being followed for the mystery portions of the story, this excludes Natsuhi as a culprit.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:49
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Ha! That's a great catch. Of course the corpses were dead. Yay red text tautologies. Next Beatrice can ask Virgilia where they buried the survivors.
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Apr 12, 2017 20:21
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idonotlikepeas posted:Another thing to keep in mind is the temporal aspect. These corpses are dead right now, but that doesn't mean that they were dead when they were seen in bed before; it's possible that one of them faked their death to help dispose of the other bodies, then was later killed by a confederate, leaving nothing but corpses. Yeah. So we're left with: "If and when George, Jessica, Maria, Rosa and Genji die, maybe someone might be able to tell?" and "Some unidentified corpses died at some point." Thanks Virgilia.
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Apr 12, 2017 20:39
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Good points all around: the red text really is perfect for witches, hiding the truth by pretending to show it. At the very least, George is probably dead: too many people saw his body.
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Apr 12, 2017 21:13
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thetruegentleman posted:Good points all around: the red text really is perfect for witches, hiding the truth by pretending to show it. Yeah. The game has been so intent on deceiving us that it's impossible to tell with any red truth whether we can actually trust it. With no conclusive evidence either way, I guess we have to build two separate theories based on the following two mutually exclusive propositions and see where they take us. George, Jessica, Maria, Rosa and Genji are dead. OR At least one of George, Jessica, Maria, Rosa and Genji are still alive.
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Apr 12, 2017 21:29
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Can someone in witch chat repeat the following in red, please? "Kinzo wants the B. He wants the Beatrice."
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Apr 12, 2017 22:19
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Kinzo wants the B. He wants Beatrice back. Oh desire. Poor Kinzo.
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Apr 12, 2017 22:52
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CottonWolf posted:Yeah. The game has been so intent on deceiving us that it's impossible to tell with any red truth whether we can actually trust it.
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Apr 13, 2017 00:22
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I think there's some red I can use here, regarding Kinzo. One thing that is absolutely, unbreakably true. YAMI WO KIRISAKU OH DESIRE
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Apr 13, 2017 00:50
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Nevermind.
grandalt fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Apr 14, 2017 |
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Apr 13, 2017 00:58
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What does "yami wo kirisaku" mean, anyway?
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Apr 13, 2017 01:19
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idonotlikepeas posted:What does "yami wo kirisaku" mean, anyway? Of course that is not nearly as cool to listen to being screeched out by a metal singer. Here is said song under a polsy with no spoilers in the video.
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Apr 13, 2017 01:26
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That song was pretty much the only good thing the anime gave us  but man is it a great thing
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Apr 13, 2017 01:33
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Danaru posted:That song was pretty much the only good thing the anime gave us That and the opening to me, both are way too good for a show that bad. The gap in quality between the show and it's opening/closing is impressive really.
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Apr 13, 2017 01:55
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AZAWARA, WAAAAAAAA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Apr 13, 2017 01:59
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Fabulousvillain posted:That and the opening to me, both are way too good for a show that bad. The gap in quality between the show and it's opening/closing is impressive really.
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Apr 13, 2017 02:00
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lotus circle posted:The anime was good when it came to anything that wasn't the actual show. The musical remixes were fairly decent, all the VAs that were on the show were top-notch and got transferred to the Alchemist port, and the OP+ED were drat good. The Remixes on the OST were good, which makes it all the more inexplicable when they seemingly put the wrong musical track on for the final scene. They made a version of Dreamenddischarger that perfectly matches the climax of the anime and just...didn't use it. Utterly incomprehensible.
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Apr 13, 2017 02:52
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oath2order posted:The Remixes on the OST were good, which makes it all the more inexplicable when they seemingly put the wrong musical track on for the final scene. They made a version of Dreamenddischarger that perfectly matches the climax of the anime and just...didn't use it. Utterly incomprehensible.
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Apr 13, 2017 03:09
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lotus circle posted:It's a lyric from the Umineko Anime Ending song, which became associated with Kinzo. "Yami wo Kirisaku OH DESIRE" more or less translates to "Oh desire that cuts through the darkness" Yeah, someone posted that song in the first thread (although I am in no way objecting to listening to it again, because it is bangin'), was just curious what that phrase actually meant. Is there actually any reason for us not to watch the anime at this point if we have the opportunity, apart from it being bad?
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Apr 13, 2017 04:00
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idonotlikepeas posted:Yeah, someone posted that song in the first thread (although I am in no way objecting to listening to it again, because it is bangin'), was just curious what that phrase actually meant.
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Apr 13, 2017 04:10
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I'm a little bothered that nobody seems to have noticed Krauss has been missing for what, most of a day now? While other people are turning up dead? The Divine Comedy was a long time ago for me, but wasn't Beatrice a guide, not a goal? Wasn't it Laura that Dante was always mooning over?
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Apr 13, 2017 06:36
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idonotlikepeas posted:Is there actually any reason for us not to watch the anime at this point if we have the opportunity, apart from it being bad? I watched it and am going into this LP blind (except for one screenshot), never saw much of anything spoiled. It's not really funny bad, aside from the animation, but I enjoyed watching it for its incompetence.
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Apr 13, 2017 07:02
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I can think of precisely one thing for which the anime gives a hint that didn't exist in the original VN.
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Apr 13, 2017 07:15
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tiistai posted:I can think of precisely one thing for which the anime gives a hint that didn't exist in the original VN. I can think of at least one time the anime blatantly showed a contradiction as fact  I won't mention it here for obvious reasons, but I had a good idea that was 'proven' wrong by the anime, and it ended up being a pretty drat important piece of the puzzle.I would have figured it out if it weren't for Deen I swear 
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Apr 13, 2017 12:12
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  BGM: Kuina All of the humans, furniture, witches, and the witches on an even higher level... had gathered in one place. That place was like a solemn cathedral, with an unbelievably high ceiling. White stonework. Golden ornaments. Though there were windows, there were no entrances or exits. It was a strange, strange place. But for some reason, no one wondered where this strange place was. Because they were not given the right to think of this place as strange.   "Yes, they have." "Well done. What a spectacle. I wonder just how many people there are here." "...No matter how many we see, every being outside the 18 people is a phantom." "Making you acknowledge them is what my game's all about. *cackle*cackle*!"The three witches were seated on special thrones set upon a very high balcony. In the center sat the Game Master, Lambdadelta, and on either side of the semicircular balcony sat Bernkastel and Beatrice, facing each other. Below them, Erika ran forward, lifted the corners of her skirt and bowed respectfully.  "Yes, I am looking forward to it. I'd expect no less from my double, my piece."Erika and Bernkastel exchanged cruel smiles that'd make anyone want to look the other way.  The commander of the game spoke with words of power. Though her words were spoken inside such a vast space, they rang out with the force of a bell in a bell tower... "Your lives and roles as they correspond to this game are over! The 5th game is now closed, and the 24:00 answer session shall begin! Well, I'd like to get started quickly, but why don't we have everyone quickly introduce themselves first? After all, there are so many people here." "Eheheheheh! I am Lambdadelta! The Witch of Certainty and the new commander of this game!" "...Bernkastel. Witch of Miracles. My goal is to penetrate Beatrice's Illusion of the Witch." "I am the Endless Witch, Beatrice. My goals are to claim my own existence and to protect Natsuhi and Kinzo." "..." "...Battler-sama. You come next in rank."  "As I believe you know, you joined in on this game partway through. At the time this assembly of witches opens, you have yet to participate. Do you understand...?" "I get it. You probably mean I don't have the right to speak for a while, right?" "Thank you for understanding."Even though Battler held a rank near that of witches, he sat on the foremost of the benches shared with the other relatives, all by himself at one end. He met the gaze of Beato, who was up on the balcony. "You could have said you were my arch-enemy." "...Well, you aren't necessarily my only enemy." "Hmph... Let's take this game back.It belongs to us." "...Yeah."I almost said that I was fighting against Beato's Illusion of the Witch. Since the beginning, Beato has been my only enemy. But... right now, Erika and those witches who started toying around with Beato's tale... are also my enemies. Who should I fight and how? Maybe it's a good thing I don't have the right to speak for a while. I'll calm down and coolly watch over everything...  Erika greeted the witches above her and the humans behind her once again. "I'm also looking forward to it. Okay, remaining pieces, introduce yourselves in whatever order." "Humans! Introduce yourselves, all of you...!"When 45 urged him to introduce himself, Kinzo stood up.   "Ushiromiya Krauss. Currently, I have been captured and am being confined somewhere." "I'm Ushiromiya Eva. I'm alive." "I'm Rudolf. The rest of us are all Ushiromiya too, so I'll leave off the family name." "I'm Ushiro-, Rosa. I was killed on the first twilight." "Jessica. I also died on the first twilight." "I'm George. I also died on the first twilight." "Maria. I died, but look, I'm here talking. See? Dying isn't a big deal, right? Kihihihihihihi hihihihihihihi..." "I'm Ushiromiya Natsuhi. I am alive." "...Gah..." "Hideyoshi here. I was killed just a short while ago." "Kyrie. I'm still alive." "Nanjo... I am also hanging in there..." "My name is Genji. I died on the first twilight." "I'm Shannon. I'm still alive." "I'm Kanon. I'm also alive." "I, I'm Gohda. Pleased to meet you, everyone..." "I am Kumasawa... Pleased to meet you..." "Now, on to the witches! Everyone, introduce yourselves!"Virgilia's group could also be seen. Unlike the floor Beato's group was on, the second floor had a balcony which looked like a raised audience seating, and they sat there, looking down as though they were at a theater...   "I'm Gaap. Making corpses disappear is my job." "Ronove. I'm in charge of making black tea. Pu ku ku..." "I greet you in the name of the Seven Sisters of Purgatory. I served in the murder of Hideyoshi on the second twilight." "Let us then have Lady Erika's furniture introduce themselves." "Gertrude. I am an Assistant Inquisitor of Heresy." "Cornelia. I am an Assistant Inquisitor of Heresy."The two of them could also be seen on the second-floor audience seating. They sat apart from Virgilia's group. Then, Dlanor, who was seated between the two, slowly stood up. She had a presence and dignity about her, as though she was overseeing everything from that place.   "..." "Battler. I'm expecting a lot of YOU. Please don't disappoint ME." "...Let's just both give it all we've got." "Most of the time, there will be no need for Dlanor to step forward. However, when the witch side plays around with ugly word games, I'll need to have Dlanor convict them. A miracle like the one in the study won't happen again." "..."  "H, hello everyone...!!" "Nyeh nyeh♪" "This ends the introductions of all pieces. A total of 38 people are present here!"There are 38 characters in the 5th game, but if you added all the pieces from previous games too, it would probably rise even higher. This game, which has so often been likened to chess, now has far more pieces than a chessboard.  "Very well. Then I guess we'll get started. Let the person who called this meeting begin! Oh, excuse me, Mr. Goat. Refill my drink." "...And some popcorn for me." "Yeah, that's right. The one who decided demons ought to eat popcorn when watching a play was you, after all." "Yes, I intend to enjoy this. And could I get some black tea and mustard miso? Erika, begin. I'm already starting to get bored." "Yes, my master, leave it to me...!! Order!! Silence!" BGM: None It became a low, deep rumble in the ground, all chatter in the cathedral disappeared instantly, and their eyes and expressions became even more hollow and empty. The room fell back into silence, almost as though they were a collection of wax models... Amidst this heavy silence, there was the sound of footsteps as Erika walked out into the center, where she could catch everyone's attention. When she signaled with her chin, a goat attendant appeared from behind a pillar, and carried a single, plain chair out into the front and center of the room. It must have been... the defendant's chair.  "I, Furudo Erika, will make an accusation. The murderer of the 5th game is..." BGM: Solitary Deep Sea Fish Erika pointed at Natsuhi and spoke... The Natsuhi wax doll alone... shook and regained its expression. It was an expression of panic. "Chiester Sisters. Please take the defendant to her chair." "Understood." "Wait, what are you doing?!! Let go of me!!"45 and 410 pinned Natsuhi's arms behind her back and led her to the chair in the center. Natsuhi resisted, but the Chiester Sisters were surprisingly strong, and she couldn't do anything. She turned to the relatives for help, but they just remained silent like wax models... "I, Furudo Erika, will now reconstruct why the crime was only possible for Ushiromiya Natsuhi." "...Beato. Of course, you'll be challenging this, right?" "B, Beatrice...!" "Fear not, Natsuhi. You are my master. And you are the true head, with the One-winged Eagle engraved in your heart. Do not fear a crime you have not committed."At those words, Natsuhi jerked back, and gulped. Her panic finally disappeared, and she stood up straight.  "...Th, that's true...! I am Ushiromiya Natsuhi! I will confront any challenge that would disgrace the Ushiromiya family!" "...*giggle*. How can you try a bluff like that in a situation like this? You really are the bullied kid in every single Fragment." "So, Bern. Make your claims." "And you too Beato, okay?" "I, Beatrice, claim that the culprit in this game is not human! I am the culprit!"Bernkastel, who smiled daringly, and Beatrice, who smiled firmly, crossed gazes.  "If the witch wins, the truth about the 5th game will disappear into darkness. If Erika wins, the Illusion of the Witch will be wiped from the game board. In other words, for Beato alone, this is a battle which must not be lost. Are you prepared?" "And what am I supposed be preparing myself for? This has always been just what I wanted...!"...If Erika wins, the Illusion of the Witch will be destroyed. That means the existence of the witch will be denied. Beato was fighting for her life. However, this wasn't the only time she had been fighting for her life. It had always been a life-or-death struggle, even when she fought with Battler. Because if Battler had won and destroyed the Illusion of the Witch in the previous games, Beato would have been destroyed. "...That's dirty. Erika alone has nothing to lose if she fails." "I wonder. Lady Bernkastel is not a compassionate person. I can't imagine she'd give any warm treatment to a piece that didn't perform as she had hoped..."It was inconceivable that the ruthless Bernkastel would place no blame at all on a piece who had suffered defeat. Erika was probably fighting for her life just the same. The two claims would clash, and one would be weeded out. One would fall... and would not leave this place alive... The only ones who truly had nothing to lose... were those witches.  "OK, no problems! Get started!!" BGM: Smile-less Soiree It really was simple. Except for Natsuhi, everyone had been inside the parlor. And because it was so simple, it was decisive... "...No matter how you look at it, the one who killed Hideyoshi was Natsuhi. No, it's the other way around. No matter how you look at it, no one except for Natsuhi could have killed Hideyoshi. There's no room for discussion or debate." "I, I'm telling you, that's a mistake...!! Maybe I don't have an alibi. However, I don't believe a lack of an alibi proves that one is the culprit...!" "Hmph, we know that Natsuhi is the only one without an alibi." "But wait. The scene of the murder was a closed room. It should have been impossible for anyone, including Natsuhi, to have committed the crime in that room. Except for me, since I could have done it with magic." "I'll explain the closed room trick--the 'how dunnit'--later. For the time being, I'll start with the 'who dunnit'. Because of this, it's impossible to suspect any character except Natsuhi-san regarding the murder of Hideyoshi-san." "...Milady. It may be dangerous to press any further on this." "I agree. It's a fact that Natsuhi was hiding in the closet of Hideyoshi's room. When it comes to repeating things in red, they'll check to see who's in the room and you'll be cornered." "...Probably. Lady Lambdadelta is the commander of this game. If it suits her fancy, she'll set up Natsuhi as the culprit regardless of the facts." However, in this closed-off Rokkenjima, the police will not arrive for all eternity. In other words, the real truth will not be revealed. Inside this cat box that will never be opened, false charges that everyone accepts are worth no more or less than the truth.  "Their aim is most likely to use the simple murder of Hideyoshi to give the impression that Natsuhi-sama is the culprit... before moving on to the first twilight's reconstruction, which has more uncertain elements." "It's not good at all to proceed while under the Game Master's suspicion. We should take the initiative." "Sure. Lady Lambdadelta! As you are well aware, a fair number of murders were committed during the 5th game, and we are skipping the rather lengthy chunk of time from midnight until the early morning." "Skipping to Hideyoshi's murder , and stepping backwards and forwards in time will only lead to confusion. It is my belief that we should follow events chronologically and in order, though the decision is yours, of course." "Objection. In the process of prosecuting the culprit, chronological order has no significance." "Objection. Furudo Erika is trying to mix up the chronological sequence in order to create a false impression of the events." "Well, I'm not a fan of confusing things myself. I accept Beato's claim. Erika, start with the first twilight instead of jumping to the second." "...Sheesh."I definitely saw Erika click her tongue.  I was guided by Virgilia, met Beatrice, reached the peak from which you can see everything below you, and finally understood the truth of this world. "This is... that thing you were talking about earlier, Virgilia." "...Yes, that's right. Truth is very fragile in this place." "As long as each side makes its own claim, different truths can exist at the same time..."Yes. This really is a trial. Both sides put forth their own truths. 
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Apr 13, 2017 13:41
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| # ? May 14, 2024 09:42 |
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Well, this is silly. This is a setup. It's clearly not Natsuhi or a witch. Lambda and Bern have cleverly structured this to be an X or Y situation where both X and Y are wrong. As thetruegentleman said yesterday, "hiding the truth by pretending to show it".
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Apr 13, 2017 14:10
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