|
Cythereal posted:Yes. It's part of what made him so dangerous in the fluff - orcs are in general quite predictable. They can get ded kunnin, but they're invariably aggressive, impatient, and want to kill you as loudly and violently as possible. Azhag was known for being patient, rarely losing his temper, and being hard to bait into doing something stupid. Primarily because whenever he wants a fight, all he has to do is pay a tiny bit of attention to the crown of sorcery to generate a quick one-ork internal waaaaugh. Azhag has, through a magical artifact of phenomenal power, achieved orklightenment; the true waaaugh is not to be found without, but within (a stupid shiny metal hat).
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 21:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 04:04 |
|
|
Grimgor should get increased damage the more damage he causes. Getting him into a scrum should result in 1200 weapon strength. I could see him adding melee attack or LD to his melee units tho
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 22:02
|
|
|
If I made a mod it would: General: Make RoR have a 4 turn cool down once destroyed/disbanded Remove all AI agent aggressions Give AI 3-5x more income Remove fukkin chariots from the game gently caress chariots !!!!! Make the Chaos invasion 6-9 waves and double the army count each time Dwarves: Make Rangers have 1/3rd less range but +15 base missile damage, while quarreler have 15% more range Give all LL higher mass Give ungrim attack and speed boosting traits for his army without any melee defense or armor boosts Give thorgrim MD and vigor boosts for his army Add 5 to each growth level farms give Will continue other races later my ADHD kicked in time 2 play some WarHams
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 22:16
|
|
|
I'm surprised that the RoR suggestion isn't a default thing. Recruiting a wiped out famous unit in a single turn is weird.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 22:28
|
|
|
Gejnor posted:And he has them! With the techs already included in Green Iz best he gets Orc Boyz with 60 armour, Big 'Uns with 70, and Black Orcs with 120! This is of course after reaching near the end of the tech tree but it is also much easier to access! And the turncosts are much lower! Alright, I didn't know that! Good then
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 22:34
|
|
|
Dandywalken posted:I'm surprised that the RoR suggestion isn't a default thing. Recruiting a wiped out famous unit in a single turn is weird. Oddly it is a thing if you dismiss them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 22:37
|
|
|
There should at least be RoRs for every race. Also giving the AI more money sounds disastrous since, on VH/leg, you get swamped all the time as it is. The chaos stuff should be buffed and chariots should be disallowed. Like i said before, 2 chariot maximum for each faction.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 22:40
|
|
|
I have a no AI agent mod and while it makes them less annoying, one drag is that it makes enemy action reduction chance stuff useless. And many legendary items have this as part of their kit. Right now I actually like using Ekrund Miners and Dragon back Slayers as suicide units. Chariots are incredibly annoying in part because nothing seems effective vs them. I hit em with cannons, stuff em up with Halberds, etc but their health goes down slowly, meanwhile they are doing donuts and Tokyo drifting through my lines.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 22:53
|
|
|
The difference between Grimgor and a regular Warboss is that, while Grimgor is predictable, the amount of violence he brings to the table is so overwhelming that tricking him often doesn't matter, as he'll just smash the decoys before going right back to his main objective.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 23:02
|
|
|
I know why they didn't include it, but it'd be cool if all orcs, except Azhag's, had "may charge without orders". Grimgor's just get increased charge bonuses and are even more likely to.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 23:26
|
|
|
I have never actually seen "May Charge Without Orders" actually work in any Total War game. All it amounted to in Rome 1 was that Barbarian factions were hilariously, suicidally aggressive.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 23:39
|
|
|
I noticed it happening a bunch in the older games, especially in Medieval 1. It was a fun extra wrinkle since units in Medieval 1 were less responsive to orders than in later games - knights who charged before they should were hard to turn around in time.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 23:44
|
|
|
John Charity Spring posted:I noticed it happening a bunch in the older games, especially in Medieval 1. It was a fun extra wrinkle since units in Medieval 1 were less responsive to orders than in later games - knights who charged before they should were hard to turn around in time. Hah, yeah. I ended up building gendarmes instead because they do what they're drat well told.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 23:50
|
|
|
Grimgor giving buffs to Black Orcs seems pretty appropriate thematically. -recruitment time would be a welcome change for Blorcs. I don't know a ton about Azhag, maybe some more magic boosts? +recruitment rank to Shamans? +winds of magic? That's pretty boring though I suppose. I wish the poor guy would just start with Death Magic.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 23:51
|
|
|
Yeah it makes more sense to just give him the death magic right away and have the magic hat just supercharge it. Is it possible to have gear increase magic damage by X%?
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 23:57
|
|
|
 Late dorf campaign fuckery: all Slayer army (cannons are for sieges, but perhaps grudgethrowers are more appropriate) with Ungrim as leader  Got to say that I am really surprised at how effective it is being to troll around vampire counts and norscan tribes
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 00:44
|
|
|
In general I'm not a big fan of buffing factions because I find them all to be pretty good, but there are some obvious exceptions and Azhag is a big one. His quests are just ridiculous for the puny payback of 'now you can spend points on another tree which you don't have points for that isn't really all that helpful anyway'.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 00:44
|
|
|
dead comedy forums posted:
Do you have fraps or something? I'd like to see a video of that in action.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 00:45
|
|
|
I wish the skill trees were varied more for each lord in general. That would also help balance the less-used choices, for example give necromancers better magic and red-line trees, while vampire lords get only basic magic and their red line is crap outside of maybe a good top-of-the-line buff that applies to specifically varghfulfs/gheists/blood knights, but have a really great yellow tree. Makes sense, necromancers focus on buffing their undead legions while vampires are elitist, selfish dicks. Actually, maybe give vamps a wood-elf-style binary tree where they can focus on combat or magic, not both. Could also help Mannfred stack up to daddy since you could give him some necromancer skills since he's the nerd Von Carstein. This would then carry over into army comp which would be cool- necromancer lords would stack up on undead troops and could even have decent buffs to Raise Dead'd chaff, while vampires would be far more likely to forgo line troops in favor of stuff like blood knights and varghulfs that stand on their own. I'd also like to see either the ability to take both a campaign and a battlefield skill per level up, or secondary effects so a high-level lord can have effects on all three areas while still focusing on one tree. So say you take 3 levels of +corruption on a VC lord, you also get a small boost to leadership aura or a small melee defense buff to yourself, representing your cloud of dark magic. Take 3 levels of Hold the Line and you get a small campaign movement bonus since your troops are so disciplined. 3 levels of +melee attack on a brett and you get slightly cheaper knight recruitment because every knight worth his salt wants to work for the rear end-kickingest duke. IMO if you want to buff basic greenskin units it would need to be very situational buffs. Making them work like foot cav would be similar to the Choppa rule on tabletop, give them AP damage but only for the initial charge. It'd also be fun if gobbos got temporary AP but only from a flank or rear charge to an already-engaged unit, instead of making nasty skulkers a whole separate thing. IDK if the engine supports that stuff though. Maybe an orc-wide effect where they get disproportionate charge bonuses but take a big leadership penalty if they take a charge without countercharging, and a gobbo-wide effect where they suck extra at one-on-one engagements, get no charge bonus to the front and a leadership malus for any head-on engagement, but get buffs for hitting the rear of someone who's already occupied. Brutal but kunnin' and kunnin' but brutal. The greenskins paradoxically should be a finesse army, it's kinda their thing. Superhuman warriors who would/can do great under a good leader but are crippled by mostly being cruel idiots. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Apr 13, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 00:49
|
|
|
Thematically, every VC leader has to have access to the lore of Vampires because that's how they're keeping the whole army animated. I'd kind of like to see vampire and wight heroes not give leadership buffs because of that, actually, at least not without investing in some skills.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 00:56
|
|
|
Ravenfood posted:Thematically, every VC leader has to have access to the lore of Vampires because that's how they're keeping the whole army animated. I'd kind of like to see vampire and wight heroes not give leadership buffs because of that, actually, at least not without investing in some skills. They definitely should all have invocation, but thematically I think it works to do it like Wood Elves and Orion, where the legendary, ancient Vampires Vlad and Mannfred get both trees but the younger, generic ones have only had time to become either combat OR magic gods, not both
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 00:58
|
|
|
MilitantBlackGuy posted:Grimgor giving buffs to Black Orcs seems pretty appropriate thematically. -recruitment time would be a welcome change for Blorcs. I don't know a ton about Azhag, maybe some more magic boosts? +recruitment rank to Shamans? +winds of magic? That's pretty boring though I suppose. I wish the poor guy would just start with Death Magic. Thats sort of what ive been working on, the latest bonuses i had in mind before going to bed yesterday were around this. Grimgor: +10 Melee Attack for Orc Boyz +5 Melee Attack for Black Orcs -1 Recruitment Time for Black Orcs (effectively turning them into a 1 turn unit) Azhag: +10 Melee Defence for Orc Boyz Some sort of buff to Big 'Uns, undecided on what, tried giving them encouragement via a lord effect and it didn't work (or it did, every single unit everywhere got it which is the problem). +2 Ranks for Shamans The +5 MA to blorcs is because i realised yesterday after 1200+ hours that big uns have better MA, sitting at 38 while Black Orcs are at 34. Its a bit weird but it thankfully gives me a small window where i can have grimgor buff them a little bit and it won't look too weird. As for the magic hat.. well.. i think that may be hardcoded but i could give it a try, its cooler to have magic anyways.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 07:22
|
|
|
Its too bad Azhag is bad because he loving owns in Diskwars
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 07:33
|
|
|
im kind of curious how many lategame stacks people that claim units ever get obsolete run around with im guessing its something like "two stacks full of nothing but the most single elite, high cost monster unit", which i guess would explain why people keep having problems with their undefended backline getting hit by roving varg stacks while their only army is busy ambling around in the badlands, or some poo poo e: like, lategame bretonnia, i controlled all of ye old not-France and the province directly outside of the Chaos Wastes, and even without doing that cheese with trident-man and his "ports produce infinite money" shtick, i fielded a stack back at Carcassonne (both to deal with beastmen spawns and in case those elves started poo poo, one hanging around in northern Bretonnia in anticipation of skraling hijinks that never came, two handling the chaos invasions in north Kislev, and Leon rummaging around in Norsca. I did this by doing blasphemous things like "only 4-6 cav units in my stacks" and "using man-at-arms/pilgrims instead of foot squires as chaff". Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 07:54 on Apr 13, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 07:46
|
|
|
Elites trump all and having too few stacks is a common TW problem that players have in general, although Warhammer absolutely encourages few stacks mechanically with the additional stack upkeep penalty (which doesn't apply to brettonia). So I can't really fault people for being encouraged to replace their units with more elite ones rather than expanding the number of units in their army.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 08:27
|
|
|
i had the same sort of "elite stack" mentality but then i played Ikko Ikki in Shogun 2 and that kind of broke me e: idk what is up with the stack penalty thing, tho. I'd guess skaven won't have it, but I kind of wonder what weirdness provoked that mechanic in the first place. I guess so people don't just run around with nothing but generals, but they really could just correct that by making generals cost-ineffective units, so I don't really know what its correcting. I don't think its that substantial of a drawback, all in all, to counter that the flexibility that multiple stacks offer. Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Apr 13, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 08:30
|
|
|
Endless Ikko stacks was a lot like playing skarsnik, it's stupid fun and a great change of pace to be the endless hordes of chaff. I know I had the same elite problem as well, but it was my monk and samurai stack in Shogun 2 that I was forced by necessity to spilt and then I could only make ashigaru quickly and then it turns out that's a great idea. Realm divide forced me to be a better player and broke a seriously bad habit. E: the stack penalty is straight out stupid and doesn't actually fix any problem, yeah. Generals have always been expensive and cost ineffective and the marginal utility gained for having more stacks is reduced for every additional stack so it makes no sense that they are all penalised at such a punitive rate. Or at all, really. E2: It's so you have to use the garrison system, now that I think about it. Of course, garrison buildings are basically mandatory because you can't have additional defensive stacks due to the cost so it's a see saw balance change. shalcar fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Apr 13, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 08:39
|
|
|
Tiler Kiwi posted:im kind of curious how many lategame stacks people that claim units ever get obsolete run around with I was curious about this so I loaded up my game saved immediately after completing the Bret campaign. I have 5 stacks running around (spoilered for the insanely boring list of units, skip if you don't care): Louen - in the Badlands after doing the Errantry War battle Damsel 2x paladins 1x battle pilgrims, 2x M@A with shields 4 bows (two plain, one fire, one pox) 2x QKs 3x GGs 2x royal hippos 2x trebs (1 blessed, 1 normal) Alberic - in Gorssel hunting a very lost Estalia stack Damsel 2x paladins 2x foot squires, 2x battle pilgrims 4x archers (pox) 5x QKs 1x royal hippos 2x trebs (both blessed) Bret lord 1 - in Carcassone chasing another Estalia stack 4x foot squires 2x pox bows 3x QKs, 2x KoTRs 2x royal pegs The Fay Enchantress - in Bretonnia l'Este, or Kislev as it was formerly known, chasing Khazrak Paladin 1x foot squires, 1x battle pilgrims, 3x M@A with shields 4x bows (1 pox, 3 plain) 1x QKs, 3x KotR, 1x Errants, 1x GGs 2x pegasus knights 1x trebuchet (blessed) Bret lord 2 - in Sylvania, anti-VC crusading Damsel 2x paladins 4x battle pilgrims 1x reliquae 3x archers, fire 1x GKs, 4x QKs, 1x Errants 2x trebuchets supported by a second stack with Lord 2x paladins 2x royal hippos On Hard, that was enough to win, including having wiped out Norsca and beat up Chaos. I'm quite surprised to only find one unit of Grail Knights, I thought I had more than that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 10:01
|
|
|
Panfilo posted:I hope they continue this cheesiness and make Thanquol some crazy powerhouse with easy to get skills and quest items in the next game. Thanquol is a crazy powerhouse. He made Teclis probably the most powerful Elven Mage and one of their legendary lords think he needed to get better at magic. While being an stupidly powerful mage he is not very good at fighting. But that is what his Rat Orge Boneripper is for. (Until it dies somehow and flees and gets a new one.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 10:06
|
|
|
shalcar posted:Endless Ikko stacks was a lot like playing skarsnik, it's stupid fun and a great change of pace to be the endless hordes of chaff. Yeah, garrison buildings. If you think of the player's empire as an expanding blob, the total length of their territory border lengthens more slowly than the volume enclosed within it. Which means that if the cost of armies increases linearly with the length of the border, while the income is related to the volume, it gets easier to defend your empire the larger it is. So without this compounding effect, you get a natural snowball where it gets easier and easier to have all the armies you need. Other games solve this issue with a corruption penalty that reduces income for large empires. WTW doesn't have that mechanic and so uses upkeep. I think I somewhat prefer this implementation.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 10:12
|
|
|
The trouble with chaff armies is that they are very difficult to pull off and still be fun. WTW and Shogun 2 do excellently with the Ikko Ikki and the Skarsnik campaigns by making up for troop quality with insanely fun gimmicks. Other games just don't do as well, and mods almost universally make playing chaff armies awful. Why yes, Third Age Total War, I would love to watch 40 man Elf skirmishers hold the line against 5000 goblins without taking a single casualty.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 10:29
|
|
|
I just tried out organ guns and cannons with the engineer skill that gives bonus range. It gives the appearance of bonus range but they definitely move if they need to attack something outside their default range but within their improved range. I think all range improvements might be bugged. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 10:48
|
|
|
KPC_Mammon posted:I just tried out organ guns and cannons with the engineer skill that gives bonus range. Dangit, i'll rework them all then and give them other bonuses instead. I think Irondrakes and Gyrocopters still work fine with the new range since they are technically not artillery that uses the graphical trajectory which seems to be the source of the issue? In other news i have a new idea for Lord Effects concerning Green Iz Best! I know im flip-flopping a bit here but i think i may have found a near perfect Solution! Grimgor: All units gain Frenzy. Azhag: Im making a new skill similar to Strength of the Penitent that flaggelants have where all your units would get a buff to defences when losing in melee. This should give you a neato choice and will scale with all unit choices, even helping out some of the side units you may never pick! Im still going to add the other misc stuff i mentioned like Grimgor being able to recruit Black Orcs in 1 turn, this is just the replacement for that Boyz thing. Edit: I also literally just now managed to make it so Azhag's Death Magic is unlocked from level 1! Gejnor fucked around with this message at 11:05 on Apr 13, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 10:58
|
|
|
Always nice to see the progress of someone figuring out the wonkiness of a games modding tools.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 13:37
|
|
|
I don't really think it's an issue that Azhag has to go on a quest to unlock the crown, personally I think the fix I'd make is to buff the rewards of it so that it is more proportionate to the effort. Give him on successful quest completion -100% overcast backfire, say, or free lightning strike (which saves him a bunch of skill points he can plough into magic). Or even Vlad style vanguard deploy for everyone.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 13:50
|
|
|
... i was going to joke about giving everyone vanguard deployment, but come to think of it i can't recall the AI using it, really. what happens if two vanguard deployment armies face off, anyways? id guess there's a way to keep them putting dudes right on top of each other.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 13:55
|
|
|
Fangz posted:I don't really think it's an issue that Azhag has to go on a quest to unlock the crown, personally I think the fix I'd make is to buff the rewards of it so that it is more proportionate to the effort. Give him on successful quest completion -100% overcast backfire, say, or free lightning strike (which saves him a bunch of skill points he can plough into magic). Or even Vlad style vanguard deploy for everyone. Number of times ive actually gone and done his quest: Like 3-4 times. Number of times ive ignored it: I cannot even count them. Its just not a very fun mechanic, especially considered just how much effort you have to put in. Letting him start with spells is just more fun. In other news i made it work, i made it goddamned work!  We all know what frenzy does so no need to show more than this for now.  Oh whats this shiny new button do you ask? Here lemme show you: 
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 14:11
|
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:Why yes, Third Age Total War, I would love to watch 40 man Elf skirmishers hold the line against 5000 goblins without taking a single casualty.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 14:25
|
|
|
That's really disappointing that range bonuses on artillery are bugged, I hope they eventually fix it. It kind of sounds like the artillery units can't seem to increase the firing angle of their base value. I guess one way to test this is to mod the flame cannon to have 50% more base range and see if that works.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 14:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 04:04 |
|
|
Gejnor posted:Number of times ive actually gone and done his quest: Like 3-4 times. Again, the factor there is that the reward isn't big enough. Letting him just start with the spells reduces his distinctiveness. The ideal result is not to balance Grimgor with Azhag, it's to make them represent two interesting and unique ways of playing the game. Giving Azhag a better reason to go north would be more fun.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 14:42
|
|