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eatenmyeyes posted:Then why not just have the card say "whenever you discard"? Am I missing something? WotC believes their customers are too stupid to make the connection between cycling and effects that care about discarding, and too arrogant to read reminder text.
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Apr 14, 2017 19:38
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Mtg will probably be a lot more interesting when the old guard design team starts retiring en masse (I feel like theyve been together forever) and they decide to take a run at blizzard for the online space because they have the superior game but the inferior (bigly) presentation Welp those are my opinions on this card game for children enjoy ur day
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Apr 14, 2017 19:39
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eatenmyeyes posted:Then why not just have the card say "whenever you discard"? Am I missing something? To make it clear that cycling synergizes with it. Less work for newer/less rules-savvy players.
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Apr 14, 2017 19:39
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Sickening posted:This is an incredibly boring stream. Deck building is less exciting for a lot of people. I like seeing the process, so I don't mind, but if you want to see some games, give it 20-30 minutes.
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Apr 14, 2017 19:41
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So if I cast Cathartic Reunion with a Flameblade Adept out, do I get 2 triggers or 1?
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Apr 14, 2017 19:44
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Onean posted:Deck building is less exciting for a lot of people. I like seeing the process, so I don't mind, but if you want to see some games, give it 20-30 minutes. Its more like the personalities are just bland and boring. Not everyone can be LSV sure, but this is about as rock bottom as you can get.
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Apr 14, 2017 19:47
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Hellsau posted:WotC believes their customers are too stupid to make the connection between cycling and effects that care about discarding, and too arrogant to read reminder text. Have you read this thread, never mind played actual paper Magic, or god forbid a prerelease? They're 100% correct.
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Apr 14, 2017 19:48
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suicidesteve posted:Have you read this thread, never mind played actual paper Magic, or god forbid a prerelease? They're 100% correct. "In response to you declaring attacks, I block like this."
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Apr 14, 2017 19:50
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Hellsau posted:WotC believes their customers are too stupid to make the connection between cycling and effects that care about discarding, and too arrogant to read reminder text. The game is complicated. I don't see the harm in it.
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Apr 14, 2017 19:53
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Sickening posted:Its more like the personalities are just bland and boring. Not everyone can be LSV sure, but this is about as rock bottom as you can get. Welp. We've got two people I think are pretty interesting, and Nissa and Liliana down one after the other.
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Apr 14, 2017 19:59
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mcmagic posted:The game is complicated. I don't see the harm in it. Mentioning discard distinctly from cycling can be a bit confusing if you already know cycling involves discarding. I don't remember the specific card text, but when I was learning to play, this type of phrasing made me second guess my (correct) understanding of the rules.
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Apr 14, 2017 20:00
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Onean posted:Welp. We've got two people I think are pretty interesting, and Nissa and Liliana down one after the other. Are you affiliated with this in some way?
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Apr 14, 2017 20:04
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New combo also fits in my favorite shell, the hulk shell.
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Apr 14, 2017 20:03
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Sickening posted:Are you affiliated with this in some way? No. I'm absolutely biased, though. I like watching MtG and like LRR.
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Apr 14, 2017 20:07
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I like LRR, Graham can make opening mail look interesting. 
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Apr 14, 2017 20:20
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TheMaestroso posted:To make it clear that cycling synergizes with it. Less work for newer/less rules-savvy players. And as a result I know I'm not the only person who first read these cards and thought "woah does this mean cycling actually triggers it twice?"
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Apr 14, 2017 21:34
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Siivola posted:I like LRR, Graham can make opening mail look interesting. Graham and Cam are fine The rest of the LRR crew are bad
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Apr 14, 2017 21:37
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Entropic posted:Oh poo poo Avacyn symbol spotted. 
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Apr 14, 2017 21:41
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St0rmD posted:And as a result I know I'm not the only person who first read these cards and thought "woah does this mean cycling actually triggers it twice?" They could actually have sidestepped the awkwardness and incorporated some interesting design space if they'd done something like "Whenever you discard a card, [do X]. If the discard was to activate cycling, [get a bonus effect of some sort]." e: What I'm really wondering about this new shift in templating philosophy is how they deal with this perceived problem on cards in other sets/products. It's not like they can build a walled garden around sets that include cycling to ensure that the virgin minds of new casual players never have to deal with the existence of Waste Not, Liliana's Caress (Or, god forbid, Megrim) in a game where some other player wants to cycle cards. Are all those cards in the future going to have this templating? Obviously not (please don't prove me wrong, Wizards) but that just points out how silly it is in the first place-- either it's necessary or it's not. JerryLee fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Apr 14, 2017 |
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Apr 14, 2017 21:42
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Hellsau posted:WotC believes their customers are too stupid to make the connection between cycling and effects that care about discarding, and too arrogant to read reminder text. In their defense, I did have one opponent try to redirect my Cranial Plating equip to his Spellskite. His and the other fellow's excuse was "no one plays Affinity here." 
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Apr 14, 2017 21:45
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What happens if you have Vizier of Remedies and Winding Constrictor both on the Battlefield and one of your creatures gets a -1/-1 counter? They're both replacement abilities, not triggers, but they're both replacing the same effect, so do they both take place simultaneously and negate each other, or can you choose which one applies first, and get away with shenanigans, claiming the vizier reduces the number of counters to 0, negating the Constrictor's effect? I can't find anything in the Comp. Rules about how to handle two replacement abilities replacing the same event, but it does say: quote:614.6. If an event is replaced, it never happens. A modified event occurs instead, which may in turn trigger abilities. Note that the modified event may contain instructions that can’t be carried out, in which case the impossible instruction is simply ignored. So, shenanigans, then? You replace the counter event with Vizier and then Winding Constrictor no longer has an event to replace? Can any judges confirm I understand this right? Edit: if I do understand this right, is there some kind of Abzan deck that can abuse Winding Constrictor and Walking Ballista while protecting itself from -1 counters? St0rmD fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Apr 14, 2017 |
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Apr 14, 2017 21:45
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St0rmD posted:What happens if you have Vizier of Remedies and Winding Constrictor both on the Battlefield and one of your creatures gets a -1/-1 counter? The owner of the affected object (or just the player, if it's affecting them) gets to choose the order in which two replacement effects apply. quote:616.1. If two or more replacement and/or prevention effects are attempting to modify the way an event affects an object or player, the affected object’s controller (or its owner if it has no controller) or the affected player chooses one to apply, following the steps listed below. If two or more players have to make these choices at the same time, choices are made in APNAP order (see rule 101.4).
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Apr 14, 2017 21:49
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Siivola posted:I like LRR, Graham can make opening mail look interesting. Kathleen's account spotted. I watch their MTG streams fairly regularly, and I'm routinely surprised at just how much of a dick Graham can be to their viewers sometimes. Like, actually rude. Often times while waiting for someone in the chat to show them a line of play  I like the rest of them just fine though
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Apr 14, 2017 21:50
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Tubgoat posted:In their defense, I did have one opponent try to redirect my Cranial Plating equip to his Spellskite. His and the other fellow's excuse was "no one plays Affinity here." When I started out I was told equipment worked at instant speed and you could equip it to anything. It made the 4 Skullclamps I had extra good
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Apr 14, 2017 21:53
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Tubgoat posted:In their defense, I did have one opponent try to redirect my Cranial Plating equip to his Spellskite. His and the other fellow's excuse was "no one plays Affinity here." Unless you were using exactly the Commander 2016 printing, Cranial Plating has the equip reminder text on it, so it should have been a very quick problem to solve. And that leads to a point that needs to be made-- it's not a problem for someone's very first mental model of an ability or interaction to have a few things wrong with it, as your Spellskite opponent's did. What's a problem is if they can't read the reminder text, or if that reminder text has no permanence in their mind as they take their eyes off Card A and try to figure out whether/how it interacts with Card B.
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Apr 14, 2017 21:53
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mcmagic posted:The game is complicated. I don't see the harm in it. I'm an elitist asshat and I hate that I can't use bullshit rules to my advantage. My primary thought when I'm cumming is my opponent bolting my 2/3 goyf. I'm actually really bad at the game but I can memorize rules and try to use those to go 1-3 at the prerelease.
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Apr 14, 2017 22:07
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Personally, I'd have gone with a very short reminder text. It's physically hard for your eyes to ignore if its only a few words long.
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Apr 14, 2017 22:16
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Soul Glo posted:Kathleen's account spotted. My favourite's actually Serge. He's a terrible player but his attitude is just too infectious.
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Apr 14, 2017 22:21
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JerryLee posted:Unless you were using exactly the Commander 2016 printing, Cranial Plating has the equip reminder text on it, so it should have been a very quick problem to solve. I think it's sort of bonkers that experienced players don't know that you can't equip your opponent's creatures. The more likely scenario is that they don't understand spellskite. Because people really don't understand spellskite.
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Apr 14, 2017 22:28
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GeneX posted:Graham and Cam are fine You take that back about Alex, I will fite you.
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Apr 14, 2017 22:30
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Dr. Stab posted:I think it's sort of bonkers that experienced players don't know that you can't equip your opponent's creatures. The more likely scenario is that they don't understand spellskite. Because people really don't understand spellskite. I once witnessed a game at a Grand Prix where a Splinter Twin player had Kiki + Exarch on the board but didn't go for the combo because his opponent had a Spellskite out. RTFC.
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Apr 14, 2017 22:32
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JerryLee posted:I once witnessed a game at a Grand Prix where a Splinter Twin player had Kiki + Exarch on the board but didn't go for the combo because his opponent had a Spellskite out. That stops the combo though? E: holy cats it doesn't TheKingofSprings fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Apr 14, 2017 |
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Apr 14, 2017 22:37
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St0rmD posted:And as a result I know I'm not the only person who first read these cards and thought "woah does this mean cycling actually triggers it twice?" AMONKHET MECHANIC "Whenever you cycle or discard a card..." CYCLING A CARD [COST]: Discard this card, then draw a card. It's only confusing if you think that activating a card's cycling cost is itself cycling and separate from what happens after paying that cost.
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Apr 14, 2017 22:41
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St0rmD posted:What happens if you have Vizier of Remedies and Winding Constrictor both on the Battlefield and one of your creatures gets a -1/-1 counter? I'm playing an abzan version of the walking ballista affinity deck right now, and I ordered some of the druids just for the hell of it. The deck seems very fragile right now so if anyone else is brewin something like this, let's talk. I'm thinking about cutting the dromoka's commands and going straight b/g though. http://deck.tk/7hvn4ubr Note: I am a terrible and sloppy magic player right now so I'm not sure my experience with the deck is representative of anything.
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Apr 14, 2017 22:46
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:I'm an elitist asshat and I hate that I can't use bullshit rules to my advantage. My primary thought when I'm cumming is my opponent bolting my 2/3 goyf. I'm actually really bad at the game but I can memorize rules and try to use those to go 1-3 at the prerelease. That actually works if there's already an instant in the yard.  I once successfully Namelessly Inverted a Tarmogoyf in Standard because my opponent ran it out on turn 2.
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Apr 14, 2017 23:06
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Well Devoted Druid already bought out lol
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Apr 14, 2017 23:21
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Sickening posted:Its more like the personalities are just bland and boring. Not everyone can be LSV sure, but this is about as rock bottom as you can get. IIRC they've invited him to every single one of these they've done but it's never lined up such that he could go. (Wish I could remember the source on this, but it was either one of the organizers or LSV himself saying it.)
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Apr 14, 2017 23:43
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TheKingofSprings posted:That stops the combo though? It's a pretty funny situation because Kiki + Exarch is the only permutation that wins through Spellskite - if they have Twin then you can redirect the Twin to go on Spellskite, and if it's Pestermite then you can redirect the untap trigger.
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Apr 14, 2017 23:47
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myDad posted:Well Devoted Druid already bought out lol Well, the thread was useful for something then.
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Apr 14, 2017 23:49
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This stream is really bad. The people are unfunny and play slower than molasses. Things I've learned: - aftermath is irrelevant for limited, looks like - not too high pressure it seems, you can durdle and build bricks and ramp and poo poo
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Apr 14, 2017 23:51
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