|
Hope you all have a good Easter weekend and remember to call or visit your parents and tell them you love them.
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 17:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 09:05 |
|
|
Incremental patches encourage you to update and log in to see what's been fixed. Only to discover you still clip through the floor and Port Olisar's Rings are light years away, same as last time you played. Having to download the whole 30GB file over a patcher that spams thousands of threads and chokes your internet connection makes you trhink twice about checking out what's new and improved, but still leaves you with the illusion of progress, after all "look, new patch, CIG must be doing something right".
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 17:00
|
|
|
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/3-0-schedule-finally-reveals-the-lies-of-2016
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 17:01
|
|
Welcome to the
|
They definitely need a delta patcher. Their developers have explicitly said that currently they don't even have anything of the sort internally to make their lives easier, so they exchange huge loads of data among teams (?) and maybe among developers collaborating on the same task. Of course like I've mentioned before, in the case that they actually intend to release huge amounts of new content, a delta patcher won't help much there, especially in the first roll out of say 3 barren rocky moons.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 17:04
|
|
|
Each download costs around 30 cents. As for the encryption, shouldn't matter. Assets within the pak file might be encrypted/signed, but the pak itself isn't. So basically it would compare against a manifest, download the asset files that have changed within the pak file, and then rebuild it. Isn't rocket science.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 17:07
|
|
C-Bangin' it 
|
flyboi posted:delta patching should be easy but due to how pak files are built and likely their horrible layout of their assets the data changes so much between the pak builds that there would be no benefit to using delta patching To be fair, when people talk about “delta patching”, it's not exactly the classic bit replacement approach they're talking about any more. Rather, it's the idea that individual asset files will be downloaded and inserted or updated in the PAK files, which they fully support. After all, they're just zip archives with some custom headers and (because CIG is stupid through and through) some signing to ostensibly maintain integrity and prevent modifications and cheating. Every patching tool currently in existence — from the one built into the engine to any of a number of third-party solutions — can do this, aside from maybe the signing part, which serves no useful purpose anyway. If you rolled your own, it would make for a neat Network IO and file manipulation 101 course labwork assignment, since it's all basic local and network IO, with some integration of external libraries thrown in for extra course credit. Actually, no, that part would be standard too — integrating the signing and/or encryption of the files would be the requirement for extra credit. …but that's all assuming you'd even be using the PAK files to begin with at this stage in pre-alpha rather than just have the files slosh about in a standard directory structure. Until you're nearing release and start to worry about disk performance optimisations and making it easy to deliver from some storefront CDN, there's absolutely no reason to use that kind of file packaging since it just makes it that much harder to constantly update all the files under development. With the whole install just being a directory structure, your in-development “patcher” would just be rsync. CIG, being the incompetent fuckwits they are, have chosen none of these methods and have instead failed to deliver the most mindbogglingly simplistic bit of software imaginable for coming up on three years now. Tippis fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Apr 15, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 17:07
|
|
|
D_Smart posted:And mining. That post comes so close to realization, and at the last moment, he misses the point. "How did things get thrown so far off?" Nothing got "thrown off." The project has been spinning its tires for years now. They have no idea how to make this game, and the fake demo they've been running since December 2015 has reached its limit. There are no breakthroughs, no developments, and there will be no game. The videos, schedules, plans, etc. are just a smokescreen to pull in steady cash while they all run for the exits. Everything has been fake for years now. It's amazing to me that the backers are starting to wonder how things are getting "behind" but they're not quite willing to take that next step and realize that nothing is behind, because there is no plan, and CIG simply can't make the game. You can't be behind schedule when catastrophic failure is the inevitable end-state of the project.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 17:24
|
|
|
Scruffpuff posted:That post comes so close to realization, and at the last moment, he misses the point. "How did things get thrown so far off?" Yes, pretty much what I've been saying since July 2015.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 17:33
|
|
|
El Grillo posted:Doublepost: isn't there a sale on right now? Shitizens don't seem to be buying: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals With the release of the schedule they are all enjoying playing it, no time to buy a submarine. Zzr fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Apr 15, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 17:36
|
|
|
This has to be a passive aggressive snipe
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 17:44
|
|
|
Here is a conspiracy theory for you all. The way the patching works now has put off so many people from even updating anymore that a delta patcher would in fact mean more bandwidth was used per month than it is now because more people would do it 
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 17:45
|
|
|
So did Crobberts actually say 'The only thing we made in the past 6+ months was GrimHex, and it was actually an outside contractor? Oh also we are way behind now because said contractor left the project' I mean, I've seen the people at Mcdonalds shift the blame less than Crobberts when my hamburger is a minute late. I've said it before but it always seems like the only people actually working there are the artists, and the outside contractors, lol goodbye 150+million dollars
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 17:48
|
|
|
Scruffpuff posted:That post comes so close to realization, and at the last moment, he misses the point. "How did things get thrown so far off?" Yep, it's just amazing that the Shitizens aren't able to join the dots and see that this "3.0" isn't the 3.0 they were promised by Xmas last year, it's just gonna be 2.6 with a few extra assets dropped in. No groundbreaking planetary tech, no improved network code with 100+ people per instance and no new game mechanics or AI. So what will they eventually get in August with a 3.0 label on it? 2.6.3 or whatever the gently caress it is now with some extra ships (surprise!) and a few new locations to visit. Same lovely missions, same lovely performance, big loving deal! Wrecked Angle fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Apr 15, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 17:49
|
|
|
I wonder how folks would feel if Lando's great leak didn't occur.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 17:49
|
|
|
Sappo569 posted:So did Crobberts actually say 'The only thing we made in the past 6+ months was GrimHex, and it was actually an outside contractor? Oh also we are way behind now because said contractor left the project' Remember when the project was delayed for two weeks because a dude fell off his bike 
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 17:51
|
|
|
peter gabriel posted:Remember when the project was delayed for two weeks because a dude fell off his bike Must have been the POC for the contractors payment
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 17:51
|
|
|
Sappo569 posted:Must have been the POC for the contractors payment All PCs were down at CIG for a day because Dennis stubbed his toe getting out of the shower
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 17:52
|
|
|
peter gabriel posted:Remember when the project was delayed for two weeks because a dude fell off his bike Fun times 
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 17:55
|
|
|
   
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 17:55
|
|
|
Checking out the latest production schedule--how can it not get you pumped for 4.0!!
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 17:56
|
|
|
his nibs posted:https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/3-0-schedule-finally-reveals-the-lies-of-2016 I only joined recently, late jan. this year. I already spent quite a fair amount of money backing this project. And for these guys to pull of a fully crowdfunded game, no director pushing for early release dates so they can move on to the next game in the pipeline, is an extraordinary accomplishment in itself. They are breaking boundaries constantly in revamping engines, implementing new mechanics etc. etc. This is a triple A game, and unprecedented in scale and vision, and they deliver ! We are kept in the loop, we get updates and info the likes I have never witnessed before in regards to game developing..... Ever! And how long has it been underway ? 5 years or 4 ? Triple A !!! Its huge. They find new ways/tools, no let me rephrase that, they build new ways/tools to make this the greatest Sim EVER ! You can call me a fanboy, I am, but not being a fan of CIG is not an option for me. I have NO problems with deadlines being pushed, and 0 problems with scraping money together for the next concept ship to help funding this project. This game/sim is gonna set new standards and it is awesome to be a part of it already! That said, I do not like that you call ppl liars !
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 17:55
|
|
|
XK posted:I really don't think there's that much data that changes between builds. All the patches do so little. so pak files are zips of assets laid out based off how the data is done in maps at least in the past when they added new ships or changed something on a map the entire pak file for that portion of the game was completely different by gigabytes maybe by now they've streamlined it but i highly doubt it considering nothing has changed since i last cared about laughing at this dumpster fire
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 17:59
|
|
|
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/65h9vk/30_schedule_is_up/dgacf2w/
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 18:06
|
|
|
flyboi posted:so pak files are zips of assets laid out based off how the data is done in maps Yep fix a door or a decal and make a small change in a ship to go along with it. Those two assets are spread across 2 pak files. Voila, a 4 gig patch.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 18:09
|
|
|
It's funny how in a Shitizen's mind the reason for delays and playing a steaming pile of alpha builds is that CIG is taking their time to make the best game ever. And by funny I mean depressing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 18:14
|
|
|
AbstractNapper posted:It's funny how in a Shitizen's mind the reason for delays and playing a steaming pile of alpha builds is that CIG is taking their time to make the best game ever. Sunk Cost Fallacy + Cognitive Dissonance = Helluva drug
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 18:16
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/TheRealGremlich/status/853077983552262145 https://twitter.com/TheRealGremlich/status/853261773033623552
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 18:17
|
|
|
flyboi posted:so pak files are zips of assets laid out based off how the data is done in maps I don't know the specific details of pak files, or CIG's actual updates. I do know they use some form of encryption on the game files, and I'd assume that is why a tiny change would change gigabytes worth of data. Creation of a delta patcher should implicitly include a solution to the problem of tiny alterations resulting in huge byte by byte differences. Just get rid of the encryption all together, or like posted up above, just use a naked directory structure. There's only really 2 realistic answers: They don't know how to make a proper patcher, or they have few enough downloads that it isn't cost effective to worry about. Not knowing how to make a proper patcher comes with the caveat that Crobbler might be demanding unreasonable things about the file structure that nobody knows how to accommodate. It's probably a combination of all those, and Chris shouting at people that his intellectual property must be encrypted and protected.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 18:34
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 18:40
|
|
|
People pointing out the delays and cut content are being upvoted? The worm has truly turned
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 18:52
|
|
|
This schedule is amazing. I'm glad Clown Robbers stays around for another few months of hilarity and entertainment. Idiots spouting "criticism is why CIG isn't as open anymore" still annoys me though. It's their job, no, their promise to be completely open about what they're doing with your money (because it's not their "income", it's your money they're spending on trying to deliver the product they promised you). There's no "but people on the internet said bad things", if that was the case 99% of all businesses today would have to never talk to anyone, consumers and investors alike. It's 2017, if you gently caress up (or piss off someone, which is 100% guaranteed even if everything is perfect and goes according to plan) someone will make a fuss. It's your loving job as a company or PR department to deal with that accordingly. It's not an excuse to just lie in the face of those customers who didn't hurt your feelings. loving shitizens 
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 18:52
|
|
|
Eldragon posted:People pointing out the delays and cut content are being upvoted? The worm has truly turned Shutting down your internal forums for a glorified chat app? What could go wrong? I wonder what genius thought, "We'll shut down the forums before the 3.0 release so we don't have to moderate lots of angry backers!" Only to find the reddit sub suddenly surges in activity which is a bit more difficult to squelch. (Even though I'd wager the admins of /r/starcitizen are treated similarly to WTF.) e: latest family member tax: 
HycoCam fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Apr 15, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 19:01
|
|
|
So they deleted that 200+ post thread. Welcome to Spectrum Remember when I said it was curious they were releasing 3.0 schedule the SAME time as they were closing the old forums? Yeah, me too. With old forums now in archive (can't post to it), using Spectrum means they can do crap like this easily. No trace. No history. Just gone. 
D_Smart fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Apr 15, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 19:23
|
|
|
D_Smart posted:So they deleted that 200+ post thread. ho lee poo poo  spectrum is just what the doctor ordered. Mao Roberts is pleased.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 19:26
|
|
|
Dreams.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 19:32
|
|
|
XK posted:I don't know the specific details of pak files, or CIG's actual updates. I do know they use some form of encryption on the game files, and I'd assume that is why a tiny change would change gigabytes worth of data. There's nothing implicit in using encryption that makes it impossible to do incremental patching with encrypted or signed files. You can update those just fine, although it takes a little extra computation to re-encrypt/re-sign them after each alteration. But doing so requires the patcher to hold the proper keys to allow for that, and that means having the keys out in the not-quite-open on the client side where someone can dike them out of the code. Ostensibly, the keys could then be used to forge “legitimate” files to send to others or to bypass some kind of tampering code. Of course, that doesn't really matter anyway since if you're going for that effect, the objects you're trying to adjust will have to be decrypted in memory anyway and you can just inject your changes directly there. For similar reasons, the whole notion that it would protect against probing into the files is silly — the game has to be able to open the files, so the decryption codes are already there to be read and used, if you really want to… or you can just read them from memory once the game has kindly loaded them for you. Encryption and signing works if both sender and recipient are trusted, and you want to protect against someone in the middle. In any of the scenarios that would apply here, the recipient is the untrusted party so the whole point it lost. quote:Creation of a delta patcher should implicitly include a solution to the problem of tiny alterations resulting in huge byte by byte differences. Just get rid of the encryption all together, or like posted up above, just use a naked directory structure.  Now, granted, since this is CIG, we can't assume that they'd actually use proper encryption, so they could conceivably actually save some bandwidth even with that kind of antiquated solution…
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 19:34
|
|
|
   
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 19:40
|
|
|
I hate Germans? I guess that would be news to my German friends, as well as the German devs who have worked for me. In fact, two of my best friends are both Germans. And they both have worked for me on two or more projects. Retards. Wait, aside from posting someone's publicly known name, going to LinkedIn is stalking now too? 
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 19:50
|
|
|
  
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 19:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 09:05 |
|
|
The Titanic posted:One thing CIG really needs to release and that never happens is not a schedule. It's the design document. Can't release what doesn't exist. Besides, if there WAS a design document, all those publishers, as well as the Goonswarm, would swoop down and rifle through it's trove of majestic inspiration to be able to release their own games that are just thin shadows designed to cash in on the true visionary brilliance that is Crobber's Dream: Space Barbie's Shopping Paradise. If there is one good thing to come from all this, it was a revitalization of the space game genre. I mean, if you are a dev studio, and you see hordes of people throwing insane amounts of money down a hole labelled SPACE DREAMS!, wouldn't you want a piece of that action too? EDIT: Archered myself. Samizdata fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Apr 15, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 19:53
|
|
