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philkop posted:Did not fix it. Sucks, I was just started to get into this amp. Apparently there was a firmware issue in earlier models that could cause this- do you know if you're running the latest DSP firmware for the amp?
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Apr 13, 2017 15:50
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jwh posted:Apparently there was a firmware issue in earlier models that could cause this- do you know if you're running the latest DSP firmware for the amp? Updated firmware, did not fix it. Let me ask a general tube amp question. If I operate the amp without a speaker load, what exactly could break and what are the symptoms of that thing breaking? For a little bit I used the amp with an 8 ohm load box I bought so I could record direct without hearing the speaker. I'm wondering somehow the load box wasn't working right and I fried something. philkop fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Apr 14, 2017 |
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Apr 14, 2017 00:14
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Hypothetically (as in I have no money for an amp right now and am slumming with an £80 Line 6 Spider 2 150 watt head on the appropriate setting for a while), what would I be looking for to get that Mesa Rectifier sound without the accompanying price tag? I'm not a mega tonehound, though something as simple as possible without plasticy modelling poo poo would be preferable, fx wise I'm happy with just my delay pedal for this band.
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Apr 14, 2017 20:39
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NonzeroCircle posted:Hypothetically (as in I have no money for an amp right now and am slumming with an £80 Line 6 Spider 2 150 watt head on the appropriate setting for a while), what would I be looking for to get that Mesa Rectifier sound without the accompanying price tag?
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Apr 14, 2017 21:58
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A couple of Jet City heads keep coming up in 2nd hand groups round here. I quite like the ones in Amplitube for punky stuff, will give them a go for more metallic material. They're Soldano based aren't they?
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Apr 14, 2017 22:07
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Yup! This one sounds incredibly vicious (I always treat YouTube demos with a grain of salt, though): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlJ7PPSN7lY Off the three heads that are currently in production, I have recorded bands that used both the Custom 22 and the Amelia. The custom 22 you can find for like 300-330 bucks NEW and the one that was used on my recording studio was so fierce it gave my Mesas a run for their money, to the point that, for rhythm guitars, all we used throughout that session were my Mesa Recto-Verb head and their Jet City Custom 22 head, along with a Zilla 2x12 cab. In the other session, the Amelia head was pretty cool for solos, even if we ended up using my Mark IV for almost everything else besides solos. Also, check out their Reverb page.
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Apr 14, 2017 22:51
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Can anyone read schematics? I have solid state Roland JC-55 that I want to add a speaker mute switch to for recording. I just want to confirm it can run without a load. I managed to track this down http://s28.postimg.org/wn3sea4wt/Roland_JC55.jpg I know most SS amps are fine without a load, but I really don't want to fry my only working amp.
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Apr 15, 2017 19:31
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Didn't you just fry and amp doing this exact same thing? Most amps will fry with out a load, why even risk it. Here is a primer on attenuators https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/Quiet_Please_Attenuators_and_Their_Many_Uses You have a stereo amp, so you'll probably need 2 of them. They are 8 ohm speakers, at 25 watts, match the attenuator to that. Very few amplifiers have a "speaker mute switch" and if they do, its because they have an internal attenuator. Just record your guitar straight into an interface if you're so worried about volume, I doubt you need studio quality "tonez" for whatever demo your doing. If you want a nice recording, go to a proper studio.
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Apr 15, 2017 21:07
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Pokey Araya posted:Didn't you just fry and amp doing this exact same thing? Most amps will fry with out a load, why even risk it. I didn't fry an amp doing this. In fact, I used the proper sized load box for the intended amp. The cause of the last amps frying has yet to be determined and if it was related to my direct recording/speaker muting, it was due to a faulty cable or load box. Most Tube Amps* will fry doing this. The vaaaaast majority of solid states will not fry because they do not require a load. Came to ask for a helpful second set of eyes on some schematics that could 100% determine whether or not this is safe for my current situation, not to hear your assumptions on what kind of demo you think I am doing and the tonezzzz you think I'm looking for. E: Its a super light amp that I can carry to my buddies house, mute the speaker, and lay down some tracks with the exact same sound I'm used to at my house. Or I could flip on the switch and play a small gig with nearly the exact same sound. It works for me and where I am currently at. I enjoy the act of making music and playing guitar and like to have as close to what I consider to be a good sound if I can help it. Straight through interface sounds like balls and I haven't heard a sim that I like as much as the direct out on my amp. If it turns out to be completely safe to run my amp without a load (which is looking more and more like the case) why shouldn't I go the extra mile and make my gear work for me exactly as I want it to? E: Also, I'm not so much worried about volume. I have an Ableton live looping setup so I like to hear my final mix through my monitors only when I'm in the middle of a jam. Hearing the sound from the amp right next to me and from the monitors gives me an altered idea of what the sound will loop like and throws me off. Muting the speaker and live monitoring the signal through ableton lets me adjust my playing in real time lets me better hear what will end up being the final take in the mix with a bunch of keyboards and drum machines. I've thought of just using an old Pod or something, or direct into my interface as you suggested, but none of them sounded or felt as good to me as me my amp. You could compromise and just deal with amplitube or something, or you spend some time researching and tinkering and maybe learn how to get more mileage and uses out of gear you already have. philkop fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Apr 15, 2017 |
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Apr 15, 2017 21:14
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I have an internal load box in my Friedman, so I can run it as just a head with an XLR cable. I've sold my audio interface, so it is possible to connect my XLR output into an RCA aux-in on my hi-fi? it would be another nice way of not having to wake the neiighbours and to really be able to crank it (I cranked it a few days ago after months of bedroom levels and MY GOD)
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Apr 15, 2017 21:20
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Can't help you with the schematic, but I did talk to a good shop about having that same mod done to my JC-77. They assured me it was safe to use without a load, and I've done so a few times without incident, with good results.
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Apr 15, 2017 21:56
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philkop posted:The cause of the last amps frying has yet to be determined. philkop posted:Most Tube Amps* will fry doing this. The vaaaaast majority of solid states will not fry because they do not require a load. You sound pretty confidant, why don't you unplug those speakers and go for it. Why make an assumption about something when they are solutions out there that are specifically designed for what you want to achieve. philkop posted:Came to ask for a helpful second set of eyes on some schematics that could 100% determine whether or not this is safe for my current situation, not to hear your assumptions on what kind of demo you think I am doing and the tonezzzz you think I'm looking for. Well I can't read the schematic, so I said, here's a solution. Also seems I was spot on about your TONEZZZ. You're using the wrong amp for the job. If you need everything to sound exactly how you like it, every time, YOU have the problem, not the amp. You said yourself in an earlier post you're trying to make that amp something it's not. Just stop doing that and adapt. Seems like that amp works for you for small shows, use it for that, and get a different tool for the recording job. Or keep blowing amps, wasting time, and money.
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Apr 15, 2017 22:00
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Southern Heel posted:I have an internal load box in my Friedman, so I can run it as just a head with an XLR cable. I've sold my audio interface, so it is possible to connect my XLR output into an RCA aux-in on my hi-fi? it would be another nice way of not having to wake the neiighbours and to really be able to crank it (I cranked it a few days ago after months of bedroom levels and MY GOD) Yeah you can do that, no problem. Guitar amps usually sound pretty fizzy through home stereos, so it'll take some creative EQ on both amps.
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Apr 15, 2017 22:04
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Pokey Araya posted:You sound pretty confidant, why don't you unplug those speakers and go for it. Why make an assumption about something when they are solutions out there that are specifically designed for what you want to achieve. The manuals for both the Hot Plate and the Rivera Rockcrusher explicitly state not to use an attenuator with a solid state amp. quote:Also seems I was spot on about your TONEZZZ. You're using the wrong amp for the job. If you need everything to sound exactly how you like it, every time, YOU have the problem, not the amp. I specifically started using the JC-77 the same way he's proposing to do because the line out on it sounds really close to how it sounds live. It's a very consistent, reliable amp.
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Apr 15, 2017 22:55
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Pokey Araya posted:Yeah you can do that, no problem. Guitar amps usually sound pretty fizzy through home stereos, so it'll take some creative EQ on both amps. Excellent. It has both cab simulation and variable mic placement so I'm hopeful. Cheers!
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Apr 15, 2017 23:02
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Gorgar posted:The manuals for both the Hot Plate and the Rivera Rockcrusher explicitly state not to use an attenuator with a solid state amp. Does the line output pass signal with the master output all the way down? Because then you can just turn it all the way down with no sound coming out of the speakers, and use the line out into whatever you want.
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Apr 15, 2017 23:06
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Gorgar posted:Can't help you with the schematic, but I did talk to a good shop about having that same mod done to my JC-77. They assured me it was safe to use without a load, and I've done so a few times without incident, with good results. Sweet. Thanks bud. You get a chance to try the JC40 yet? I haven't seen one locally but I've been curious. The digital reverb kind of throws me off though, I happen to really dig my JC55s verb and knowing that if the situation ever calls for it, I could do this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjk8YbTaz24&t=134s Pokey Araya posted:90% sure it's your output transformer, go take it to a shop and get back to me on that. You kill transformers by hooking them up to an improper load, OR no load. Thanks for that input. Agree to disagree on the rest. This will def help me get that amp sorted out. Any red flags based on the load or cable I got? I'm 99% sure it was never disconnected while in use or ran without the speaker or load connected. Load: 8 ohms just like the speaker in the amp. And I figured over wattage would be better just like a speaker. [https://reverb.com/item/4484028-handmade-100w-8-ohm-reactive-load-box-tube-amp-speaker-loadbox-dummy-load Cable: I've never head a head/cab but I heard you need actual speaker cable so I bought this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004Z2H07K/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 On paper, this solution should be just as good as the attentuators you mention. IDK what and where it went wrong. Pokey Araya posted:If you need everything to sound exactly how you like it, every time, YOU have the problem, not the amp. You said yourself in an earlier post you're trying to make that amp something it's not. Just stop doing that and adapt. Specifically regarding what I've said in the past about turning that amp into something else, its true. Back then I was trying to get a good tube fender drive sound out of it and that just wasn't going to work. I see that now. Comparing that to my current situation is a misappropriation. I've built and sold a few guitars since then but the configuration I currently find myself with has been pairing much better with the JC sound as it sounds stock. I dig the sound as is and I'm not trying to change it. Adding the capability to silently DI record (or hook up to a PA without having the amp monitor) when the situation calls for it wouldn't be turning it into something it isn't. It would be adding additional functionality to an already neat amp in a much simpler and more effective way than buying an attenuator for this amp. You'll disagree, but that's fine. There are so many types of people out there dude. Some of them rely on solutions that already exist out there, and some of us try to find new solutions that we see as better. Admittedly, I may fry an amp or two in my lifetime, but I am stubborn and this is just how I do. E: Pokey Araya posted:Does the line output pass signal with the master output all the way down? Because then you can just turn it all the way down with no sound coming out of the speakers, and use the line out into whatever you want. philkop fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Apr 15, 2017 |
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Apr 15, 2017 23:12
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philkop posted:
That speaker load is sketchy as gently caress and I wouldn't trust it with my 5 watt micro cube. As far as trying to silence the amp, you're opening up a whole can of worms, as you can already tell. Both my bass heads have a line out that passes signal regardless of master volume setting, and plenty of amps do that. You would have to reach over and turn the volume down to silence it, but hey you cant have it all. I'm assuming your running guitar -> pedal board -> roland (speakers) -> line out -> ableton? You may just have to get use to hearing the amp with the loops and learn how they sound different and adjust that way. Or get an ABY box at the end of your pedal board and send one straight into ableton, and one to the amp, and switch between them. If your direct tone into the interface sounds bad, its probably time for a new interface. It will never the sound the same as an amp, but that's the compromise you make when looping through a computer.
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Apr 15, 2017 23:40
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philkop posted:Sweet. Thanks bud. You get a chance to try the JC40 yet? I haven't seen one locally but I've been curious. The digital reverb kind of throws me off though That's my problem with it too, that and being half the wattage of the 77. The stereo input and effects loop would have me sold, otherwise. I looked into trying to get that modded too, but the loop on the 77 is apparently different from the 120 (which does have stereo returns, that's where I got the idea). It probably sounds pretty good, but not quite compelling enough, especially when I've got two JCs already.
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Apr 16, 2017 00:08
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Gorgar posted:That's my problem with it too, that and being half the wattage of the 77. The stereo input and effects loop would have me sold, otherwise. I looked into trying to get that modded too, but the loop on the 77 is apparently different from the 120 (which does have stereo returns, that's where I got the idea). Yeah, it wouldn't make sense changing from the 77. They are pretty close in size and weight. Plus I heard they switched to China for the manufacturing of the new ones and it lead to some quality issues. I thought about trying the 40 out and maybe switching but my 55 was still made in the U.S. and Japan and is a gem of an amp so I might as well hold onto it. So I got an email back from a local tech who works on Roland Amps and got the official OK so I tried it. Worked great. I'll be wiring in a simple DPDT switch to flip off the speakers soon. Like you said, it sounds veeery close to the sound that comes out of the speakers. Closer than my nooby mic jobs actually, and much simpler to grab and go to my buds place where I do most of my recording. Pokey Araya posted:That speaker load is sketchy as gently caress and I wouldn't trust it with my 5 watt micro cube. Interesting about the bass amps. I feel like a bass player is more likely to go direct to a PA than a guitar player would. Maybe that has something to do with it. Who knows, I could be wrong. Most of the guitar amps I have played with line outs need the volume turned up. The Roland ended up working fine without a load. Annnd that would really suck if that loadbox fried my fender. I'll see if I can get a refund since I have no use for it anyways. I checked the guts before I used it. Looked like everything that should be in a load box (couple of resistors.) Whatever. I'll try to track down an output transformer and see if that fixes it. If that blew, its likely my tubes have gone or will go too, but they look ok. philkop fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Apr 16, 2017 |
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Apr 16, 2017 06:01
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philkop posted:Updated firmware, did not fix it. The load box should be fine. The Super Champ XD wants to see an 8 ohm load. Most Fender output transformers can actually take +/- 100%, but I'm not 100% sure about the Super Champ. Operating without a load means that current builds inside the primary of the output transformer, which eventually destroys the screen grid resistors, the output tubes, and eventually burns the laminated metal that makes up the output transformer. This is because the speaker load is reflected by the ratio of the output transformer's secondary : primary winding to the power tube plates, which they see as a working load. ln the case of a Deluxe Reverb, for example, the output tubes see around 6.6kohm on the plates because the 8 ohm speaker is reflected through the turns ratio of the output transformer.
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Apr 17, 2017 19:15
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jwh posted:The load box should be fine. The Super Champ XD wants to see an 8 ohm load. Most Fender output transformers can actually take +/- 100%, but I'm not 100% sure about the Super Champ. Pretty sure I didn't run it without the box connected, but it is possible. One night after a few beers, me and my buddy were running his moog through (with the speakers muted and the DI connected to his console.) If it was ever ran with that load box disconnected, it was that night. Update on my Roland JC-55 project Since the amp ran fine without speakers, I decided it was time to bite the bullet and throw that switch in. To my surprise, the guts of this amp were beautiful. I'm definitely going to hang onto this one because it looks like I could replace just about anything that goes wrong in there.  Got the switch. I'm lucky enough to have a really great electronics/parts store near me with tons of dpdt switches. Settled on this little stubby.  Drilled a hole. There was plenty of space in there for this and any other mods I might want to do. I'm thinking of adding an effects loop next (once I figure out how to read the circuit to know where to place it.)  Works great! I'll pick up a matching black plastice washer and nut next time I'm at the parts store to match the rest of the amp.  WARNING: For anyone who may be seeing this in the future and didn't see the last 8 or so previous posts talking about this, I went through a fair amount of research to determine if my amp could even do this safely, including hearing from other owners of the amp, and contacting a few people who have serviced this very amp in the past. This is not guaranteed to work on all solid state amps, and definitely not on any tube amps. I added this switch so I can cut off the speakers and only use the DI output and record silently without monitoring the sound through my amp. philkop fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Apr 17, 2017 |
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Apr 17, 2017 23:35
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Nice job! This kind of makes me want to get a JC-120H, for no good reason whatsoever. I don't use my 120 very much because the cat won't stop loving with the grill cloth, but I could stick a 120H pretty much anywhere on top of other amps.
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Apr 18, 2017 01:00
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Gorgar posted:Nice job! This kind of makes me want to get a JC-120H, for no good reason whatsoever. I don't use my 120 very much because the cat won't stop loving with the grill cloth, but I could stick a 120H pretty much anywhere on top of other amps. Too bad they're like twice as rare and twice the cost. I'm actually moving pretty quick on this effects loop thing. I'll probably have that modded in by the end of the week. I'm kind of curious what kind of distorted sounds I can get by bypassing the preamp. Plus, and this might be a small reason to mod an amp, but hooking my gt-100 up completely through the back of the amp and having it sit in front of my amp would be sweet because when its time to play, I just plug into the front of the amp.
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Apr 18, 2017 01:10
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jwh posted:The load box should be fine. The Super Champ XD wants to see an 8 ohm load. Most Fender output transformers can actually take +/- 100%, but I'm not 100% sure about the Super Champ. So now the Fender amp is actually working. No volume dip. So now I'm more confused than ever. I tested the guitar, power cable, and instrument cable before and none of them were the problem. It could even be the old rear end 40s wiring in my house? although I've tried a few different spots. Well see how long this keeps up for. If it proves un-problematic for a week, I might just try to move it.
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Apr 18, 2017 21:17
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philkop posted:So now the Fender amp is actually working. No volume dip. So now I'm more confused than ever. I tested the guitar, power cable, and instrument cable before and none of them were the problem. It could even be the old rear end 40s wiring in my house? although I've tried a few different spots. It definitely seemed to me like a DSP issue, as opposed to an analog component issue, but you never know. Stranger things have happened.
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Apr 18, 2017 21:22
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jwh posted:It definitely seemed to me like a DSP issue, as opposed to an analog component issue, but you never know. Stranger things have happened. Maybe leaving it unplugged for a while cleared some kind of cache or something that was loving it up. Going to play it heavy all week to make sure there won't be a problem, but then its time to get rid of it. I don't think I need an amp that has the risk of dsp and firmware issues.
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Apr 18, 2017 21:31
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philkop posted:Maybe leaving it unplugged for a while cleared some kind of cache or something that was loving it up. Going to play it heavy all week to make sure there won't be a problem, but then its time to get rid of it. I don't think I need an amp that has the risk of dsp and firmware issues. I totally agree. If you've never built a Champ clone, you should try it. Everyone should do it. You learn a lot. I'm working on my next scratch-built amplifier- Fender Bassman style frontend, big accutronics reverb tank, long tail pair phase inverter. Unfortunately I don't have access to a drill press anymore, so the whole thing is kind of on hold.
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Apr 18, 2017 21:45
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jwh posted:I totally agree. Dude, building one of those has been on my list for a while now, and from what I gather they are pretty simple and hard to gently caress up. I've built a few guitars so soldering is not new to me. Just saw this guy build vibro champ into a cake pan on reddit  https://www.reddit.com/r/DIYGuitarAmps/comments/63v4l8/i_built_a_vibrochamp_in_a_cake_pan/
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Apr 18, 2017 21:54
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jwh posted:I totally agree. Pick up a chassis here for cheap? https://ubuyguitars.com/product-category/diy-and-hobbyists-only/
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Apr 19, 2017 02:43
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philkop posted:Dude, building one of those has been on my list for a while now, and from what I gather they are pretty simple and hard to gently caress up. I've built a few guitars so soldering is not new to me. That's awesome. Champs are pretty simple, and they're a great beginner project. Plus they sound really good. Thumposaurus posted:Pick up a chassis here for cheap? I moved into a tiny apartment, and I'm afraid there's no room for projects at the moment. Someday, though, I'll get back to it.
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Apr 19, 2017 14:36
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Turns out I know someone who gets a steep Roland discount. I'm going to give the JC-40 a shot mostly out of curiosity. Worst case, it shouldn't be hard to move in my area. E: Well poo poo. Forget the JC-40. About to get a good deal on a Carvin Nomad (an amp I've been wanting to try for a long time.)I'll post back once I have something substantial to say. Maybe some demo vids too. philkop fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Apr 22, 2017 |
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Apr 19, 2017 19:12
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I almost dropped on the Jet City, but then a Peavy Valveking 100 came up for $150 so i went with that. Hard to beat for the money.
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Apr 26, 2017 00:48
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Pokey Araya posted:Both my bass heads have a line out that passes signal regardless of master volume setting, and plenty of amps do that. Just got a Carvin Nomad at a good price. It also doesn't pass sound through the line out when the volume is down. I think it might be a bass amp thing because so much of the sound of a guitar amp depends on where the volume is set. I'm sure the line outs would be post pre-amp. Anyways, I'm taking your advice and not loving with that other load box. Got myself an attenuator coming for the 50w Carvin that also lets me completely mute the speaker. The added bonus is that I can toy around with tube cooking gain at lower volumes. Loving this amp so far btw. I might try the diode clipping mod at some point, but it hasn't been bugging me yet.
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Apr 26, 2017 22:11
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philkop posted:I think it might be a bass amp thing because so much of the sound of a guitar amp depends on where the volume is set. I'm sure the line outs would be post pre-amp. Pretty sure you're right about it being a bass amp thing. I think my Eden tube amp does the same. As far as I can tell, the point is just to capture the preamp sound instead of recording direct. Digression: gently caress that, I use an attenuator and a tube amp, or the Bassman 100T which has a post-power tube silent recording mode, which sounds great. Don't know much about Carvins, but I played around with a V50 I think, little EL34 combo thing. Was pretty tempted. Which attenuator did you get?
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Apr 27, 2017 01:24
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Gorgar posted:. Weber mini mass. E: I was wrong, its the mass lite philkop fucked around with this message at 05:02 on May 1, 2017 |
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Apr 27, 2017 10:23
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philkop posted:Weber mini mass. they're really good
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Apr 27, 2017 17:34
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The Muppets On PCP posted:they're really good Sweet! I'm still waiting on it. Stoked to be able to drive the tubes a little harder. I'm actually really diggin the amp. The clean sound is great and the stock drive channel is light years better than anything I could coax out of my solid state Roland. I have to keep that Roland around because its such a unique sound and feel. I was explaining it to a friend who was over I came up with a good analogy. The Roland JC is like an electric car (If you've ever driven one, you'd notice it feels strangely direct. The more you press, the faster you go in an exact and predictable manner. My new amp (and presumably most tube amps) are like a manual car. When you hit the right RPMs you have more torque. There's a power band where the performance actually starts to change dependent on your playing. I've had 2 other tube amps, neither of which had that feel as much of that feel as this one. Another neat bonus that took me longer to realize than it should have is that I can put my looper in the effects loop and switch channels without having it effect the loop. So I could loop clean and play dirty on top of it. Pretty nice.
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Apr 27, 2017 20:27
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Is there a recommended combined DI and loadbox? I have a 50W head and would like to play through it into my interface without a cab, and I am aware I would require a cab impulse. What I'm chasing is something so I go guitar -> amp -> loadbox/DI -> interface. I see a lot of attenuators and a bunch of DIs but I want an ideally silent recording setup but with my head. Mainly so I can cut demos that actually somewhat resemble what the final sound might be.
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May 1, 2017 03:20
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i really like my weber mini mass, and you can get a balanced line out as an option on all their stuff the two notes torpedo boxes are popular as well, and they come with an onboard cab sim
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May 1, 2017 04:04
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