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Davin Valkri posted:Honestly, if we really want good AA we'd probably buy Soviet, because those guys really know their AA, but I don't trust that dealer. Yeah the VADS is poo poo for AA but it's also a glorious firehose of 20mm destruction! Maybe we can use them on ground targets, or to beef up base defense against infiltrators, or lend them to the Snake mercs or, uh, point them at that local bar that keeps overcharging drinks, gently caress you man a rum & coke don't cost no ten bucks and if you disagree there's a badass roman god of the forge outside you can talk to! The only limit is ~our imagination~...and ammo supply. In conclusion: WOO! gently caress YEAH! *BRAAAAAP* Neophyte fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Apr 16, 2017 |
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Apr 16, 2017 06:03
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I am totally willing to update my proposal to swap two of the SIDAM for VADS instead because yeah they're even more useless but Vulcans are in fact awesome as stated and mine has us already buying from the Americans anyway. Or in addition to because I did my math thinking the 20% penalty applied to the entire order, not just the minority, so it's actually cheaper than I thought. And what's $6M between
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Apr 16, 2017 06:27
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I dunno Yooper, I know you want us to do procurement first but where we fight kind of determines what we're going to buy. That is, vehicle-based SAMs are pretty useless in the Bering Sea. Gah, speaking of which there are no good choices up there in the arctic. As much as I love those icy reaches it's a choice between two soulless corporate pirates, or actual literal pirates. Angola is the place to go, and we should fly for The Count. Do a little good, and also bomb the everloving poo poo out of some crowdfund scamming, gear-hatted nincompoops.
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Apr 16, 2017 06:35
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So, all those SPAAGs from any of the three suppliers are really good as far as anti-air guns go. Regular crappy ZU-23-2s have a default hit chance of 1%. That's not enough to hit planes zooming by, but it'll shoot down anything if you hang around long enough. (1% seems to be the hard cap for minimum accuracy for any weapon, to allow for golden BBs.) Those PGZ04As that we were scared of? They've got a base chance to hit of 4%. The SIDAM has a base chance to hit of 25%. The M163 VADS has 30%. And the Shilka and Pantsir have a whopping 50% base chance to hit per gun burst. That's good enough to be somewhat reliable CIWS. (And that's before taking into account those SA-22 missiles which can also shoot down incoming munitions.) And I'm not just saying this because I've always had an odd soft spot for Shilkas... well, okay, I am saying it partly because I have an odd soft spot for Shilkas. But if you guys want to go with BRRRT guns then I'm all for it. == It doesn't actually take much to create a mini-IADS that becomes "the place planes go to die." In all of the Lhasa missions I proposed, I wanted our SEAD planes to stay at altitude and even disabled their ability to try to automatically dodge missiles. That's because planes will dive down when dodging missiles, trading altitude for energy. The problem is that it'll let them dodge the first few missiles, but then they're on the deck and vulnerable to everything. Then the Chinese could have kept unloading with dozens of QW-2s and Crotales until our guys were killed to death. But, since they only had HQ-7s and PGZ04s, they were vulnerable to planes staying at high altitude. (Although I was actually worried that they'd start shooting down our bombs, like had happened in a few tests I ran.) If I could pick two AA units to buy without any other consideration, I would go with the I-Hawk and the Pantsir, even if it's just one of each. The Hawk can shoot at planes at high altitude, forcing them to dodge and lower their altitude until they're in range of the Pantsir. The Pantsir will then just gently caress up anything and everything. And if they launch stand-off cruise missiles or drop JDAMs out of a stealth fighter? Pantsir don't give a poo poo: shoot down missiles all day erryday.
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Apr 16, 2017 06:55
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As much as I want to be an eco-terrorist-pirate, I'm gonna stick with my original vote and go with Angola and The Count, and dunk on the free state as hard as possible.Night10194 posted:Like, hell, I'd shoot those guys for free. But don't tell The Count that.
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Apr 16, 2017 06:57
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Davin Valkri posted:I still want to try to make the world better, not actively worse, and setting fully loaded tankers on fire will make things worse. Angola. So I'm liking the majority of this. One question, besides the fact the thread likes mirages, could you explain to my dumb rear end why a fifth of our budget should go to buying Mirages? I'm just thinking if we want more strike craft why not spend nearly 60M less on 4 more FrogFoots? *edit* Okay so I've found a reason: It means we're sticking with Klaus & Pederson meaning we don't have any disloyalty surcharges which can add up if we want to buy something like the EA-6B which would come out to nearly 73M. Now that being said were we to get the Prowler AND 4 FrogFoots it would still be only 10M or so more than the 4 Mirages and we'd be filling 2 roles instead of just one. Renaissance Spam fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Apr 16, 2017 |
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Apr 16, 2017 06:57
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Renaissance Spam posted:So I'm liking the majority of this. One question, besides the fact the thread likes mirages, could you explain to my dumb rear end why a fifth of our budget should go to buying Mirages? I'm just thinking if we want more strike craft why not spend nearly 60M less on 4 more FrogFoots? Or another 2 Gripens, or all the Phantoms (omg, Phantoms are awesome more more more, sorry), or 4 more Tornados. Or go to Wacky Willy for some good all American A-10s instead of Soviet knock-offs with inferior guns. I mean, if you want purely CAS aircraft.
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Apr 16, 2017 07:05
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Renaissance Spam posted:So I'm liking the majority of this. One question, besides the fact the thread likes mirages, could you explain to my dumb rear end why a fifth of our budget should go to buying Mirages? I'm just thinking if we want more strike craft why not spend nearly 60M less on 4 more FrogFoots? It's mostly just "the thread likes Mirages". And also souvenirs from India. It looks like the consensus is to drop them. So how about... JAS 39C Gripen (70M) x 1 = 70M (To replace losses) F-4E Greek (15M) x 6 = 90M (To make a full squadron of Phantoms; good for Strike and CAP [AMRAAMs]--that's all of them, btw) Tornado (30M) x 4 = 120M (For Strike and SEAD) ZSU-23-4 (4M*1.2=5) x 6 + SA-22 (18M*1.2=21.6M) x 4 = 116.4M (because as this showed, you can't be too careful with grounded aircraft--also someone above me said that the SA-22, aka Pantsir-S1, is practically a one-group airbase defender) EA-6B (52M*1.4) = 72.8M KC-135 (39M*1.4) = 54.6M Total Spent = 523.8M EDIT: Revised to switch Tornado ECR for Prowler. EDIT EDIT: Revised to add tanker. Davin Valkri fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Apr 16, 2017 |
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Apr 16, 2017 07:10
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I wonder if it is possible to buy a MOAB in the future. I like Davin's idea for procurement
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Apr 16, 2017 07:17
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While I don't have a ton of preference for individual airframes (given that I want some of those F16s but they'd be prohibitively expensive with the 20% charge), I still advocate for us keeping some liquidity. We never know when we're going to need it in-theater. Renting out that island base for our naval strike is a good example. Or having a limited time offer come up that we might get our hands on some sweet blackmarket goods we normally wouldn't have access to.
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Apr 16, 2017 07:17
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Davin Valkri posted:It's mostly just "the thread likes Mirages". And also souvenirs from India. It looks like the consensus is to drop them. So how about... I'm liking this more, feels like everything has a purpose. That being said, instead of the Tornado ECR what about an EA-6B? Even with the 40% surcharge it still only comes out to 72.8M and it would fill the Electronic Warfare role, admittedly it wouldn't be as effective at blowing up radar but its Communications Jammer could do some serious damage. Zaodai posted:While I don't have a ton of preference for individual airframes (given that I want some of those F16s but they'd be prohibitively expensive with the 20% charge), I still advocate for us keeping some liquidity. We never know when we're going to need it in-theater. Renting out that island base for our naval strike is a good example. Or having a limited time offer come up that we might get our hands on some sweet blackmarket goods we normally wouldn't have access to. I kinda wish we would try to keep around 100M in reserve; at the very least if a campaign goes belly up and our client can't pay us we're going to need some amount of liquid assets to keep the lights on while we get our next contract. Of course Without knowing what our next theatre is going to be at this point (I lie, we're totally going to kill edgelords in a glorious act of projection) I can't deny wanting to buy for as many contingencies as possible. Renaissance Spam fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Apr 16, 2017 |
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Apr 16, 2017 07:22
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Sign me up as an eventual Pilot under callsign Fish Sandwich. Y'all make perfect mercenaries. Evil and shortsighted. Listen to yourselves talking about doing the greater good. Listen to yourselves honestly think you can bomb people into thinking about sustainable fishing? Is that what you think would happen if you sided with the crazies? Yooper spells it out for you. Unsanctioned Piracy. The scum of the Earth, killing the other man with no actual endgame. You aren't gonna change the world that way. You're going to turn the sea into an even nastier hotbed of violence, which probably isn't going to be good for the wildlife, and then your side is going to lose anyway. Then we get down to the Angolan campaign, and who does everyone want to support? An imperialist know-nothing European trying to install democracy by force. Something every single American War for the last 70 years should have shown you never loving works. But no, go on. Let's continue the lovely cycle forever. Afterall, uplifting the uncivilized murderous africans to Democracy is the White Man's Burden. The two sides with support in these votes are just a bunch of thugs telling the world "We know better than you do." Y'all don't know poo poo. You know who the only good guy in this piece is? "The Dictator". That's right. gently caress it. The purges are over. What we have here is a goddamn visionary. A prophet. This is a dude who essentially wants to turn Angola into a real-world version of Wakanda. gently caress outside influence on their nation. gently caress being under the thumb of Europe and Asia forever while their own people sweat and die horribly in the mines and to old school warlords. You know what the count would do if he won? Set up a democracy, sell all the lithium to whitey, and then not bother to set up any long term plan for oversight (especially since he'll likely, you know, die.) and then the region will destabilize again, even further as some more shortsighted version of Dos Santos seizes power. I want to note that the voting hasn't started, but by god, when it does, I'm stumping for the Saint of Africa.
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Apr 16, 2017 07:29
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Wow, insulting us because we care about the ocean? It's already been well established that we are  lovers.Hired Goons is nothing if not environmentally conscious.
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Apr 16, 2017 07:41
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If we wind up being the ecoterrorists, by god, Fish Sandwich is going to wallpaper the inside of your plane with used filet-o-fish wrappers.
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Apr 16, 2017 07:57
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Few tidbits - Gripens on offer are more capable then our current ones, these can carry SDBs. And since SDBs are amazing I'd suggest getting at least 3 x JAS-39 Gripen (210 mil) to replace that loss and get some additional SDB shooters. I was wrong about the Phantoms, get 6 x F-4E more (90 mil). Buy 2 x SIDAM j(10 mil) just in case someone gets funny ideas. As for the rest, get 4 x Tornado IDS (120 mil), they can carry and fire HARMs, and we can shut down runways with MW-1s:  I'd love to get some Mirage 2000s, especially since those offered are Mirage 2000D ground attack variants, but they don't offer anything over Tornadoes. Proposal: 3 x JAS-39 Gripen (210 mil) 4 x Tornado IDS (120 mil) 6 x F-4E Phantom II (90 mil) 2 x SIDAM (10 mil) TOTAL 430 mil That gives us very capable strike force of 10 Gripens, 4 Tornadoes and 8 Phantoms plus light strikers, and 104 mil cash reserve in case something goes really wrong. Yooper, can we talk with Klaus and Pedersen about upgrading the rest of our Gripens to be SDB capable? e: revised proposal Gervasius fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Apr 16, 2017 |
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Apr 16, 2017 07:58
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I honestly feel like the proposals being planned that leave us with less then 80-100 mil are just asking to have one bad mission which trashes our assets.
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Apr 16, 2017 08:00
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Telsa Cola posted:I honestly feel like the proposals being planned that leave us with less then 80-100 mil are just asking to have one bad mission which trashes our assets. Good point, revised my proposal above.
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Apr 16, 2017 08:08
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So, I'm having trouble figuring out what the Tornado ECR is good for in the game. Its loadouts carry 2x BOZ-102EC pod, versus the Tornado ICS on offer which always carries one BOZ-101EC pod. But the ECR doesn't seem to have offensive jamming. Normally when that's on, you see "JAM" on top of friendly aircraft, or if you're the target of jamming you'll see "JAMMED" over your own unit. So maybe the -102 is a better defensive jammer than the -101? But wouldn't that mean it's only ever useful when the plane's being shot at? Actually, I just shot a few radar missiles at a Tornado ECR and I'm even more confused. Normally a defensive jammer gets a line about trying to spoof the incoming missile, but I'm not even seeing that. Aside from that, its only loadouts are either 2x or 4x anti-radiation missiles. (The 2014 versions can only carry HARMs; but the 2016 variants can wield the AARGM). But it turns out the Tornado ICS can carry 2x HARMs anyway. And the ICS will carry a pair of IRIS-Ts in addition to the HARMs. So, seriously. What is the Tornado ECR good for? So far I'm leaning heavily against it, considering we can get a lot of other stuff for that $100 million. Davin Valkri posted:It's mostly just "the thread likes Mirages". And also souvenirs from India. It looks like the consensus is to drop them. So how about... I like this because I like Shilkas. (And it's got all the Phantoms.) Psawhn fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Apr 16, 2017 |
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Apr 16, 2017 08:09
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Don't forget to pick up another tanker guys: we've seen already in long-range ops or ops where we have a large number of aircraft up one tanker isn't enough: I want to pick up a second now, and they are relatively cheap.
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Apr 16, 2017 08:42
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Some things I'd like people to think about : What missions do we need to fill? What order do they need to be completed? In order: Recon (for air defenses) --> SEAD --> Air Superiority ---> Recon (for ground targets) --> Ground strike (CAS, strategic bombing, etc.) Right now, we have good Air Superiority and decent Ground Strike capabilities. It'd be good to build up more air-to-ground capability. We really felt the pinch last mission and we need more strikers. The Gripens, Phantoms, Mirages, Fencers, and Tornadoes are all good buys in that direction. Our recon is acceptable. The LANTIRN pods our bombers carry can do recon (they spotted the J-20s on the ground last mission) and the Gripens can carry recce pods. We also have the Sperwer UAVs. But we have very little SEAD capability. We need aircraft that can destroy enemy radars, or else we're going to lose a lot of our birds. That needs to be a top priority! Vanilla Tornadoes can do this with radar-killing AGM-88 HARMS, as can the Prowler and the Tornado ICR. We also are going to need another tanker.* The USAF has about 4 fighters per tanker. The RAF has 13 per tanker. If we go through with the proposed buys, we're going to have 15-20 aircraft that need tanker support. On the Bay of Bengal raid, we saw how many tankers were needed to support even a small strike package. It's a good idea to get another tanker. Air defense weapons are nice, but remember how easily the Chinese AAA and SAMs died last time to modern tech. Our best best for air defense is good radar coverage and fighters on Alert 5. *Tornadoes can do do some limited refueling by carrying a buddy-fueling pod. But this doesn't carry much gas. Bottom line: -Gripens are awesome and very versatile, buy more! -Buy more ground strikers (a Tornado-Phantom combo is the best option) -Buy SEAD birds (vanilla Tornadoes, the Prowler, or the Tornado ICR) -Buy a tanker (the KC-135) ----- Here are all the procurement plans so far. I've tried to group them by general themes. I'd recommend people vote for their first and second choice, since having so many proposals will split votes amongst similar ideas, kinda like what happened with the Phantom-Frog debacle. Gervasius posted:Proposal: CirclMastr posted:Procurement: Plane It Again, SAM Coffeehitler posted:1x Gripen = 70M Davin Valkri posted:1x JAS 39C Gripen = 70M Quinntan posted:Procurement proposal Vando posted:Ok, right, procurement. Popete posted:Procurement Plan: Red Viking Tevery Best posted:Here's an alternative procurement scheme: power crystals posted:I want to revise my proposal as follows: Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Apr 16, 2017 |
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Apr 16, 2017 09:17
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Gervasius posted:Proposal: Second choice is Coffeehitler's plan. e. vote changed. Mikl fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Apr 16, 2017 |
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Apr 16, 2017 09:35
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EDIT: Revised procurement proposal here. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3815107&pagenumber=52&perpage=40#post471416047 Quinntan fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Apr 16, 2017 |
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Apr 16, 2017 09:43
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Gervasius posted:Proposal: I like this, this covers our needs quite well. I would however like to see a SLAR equiped plane in the future added to our roster. These can pick up on mobile targets like tanks and SAM's further away than the recon pods of the Gripens.
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Apr 16, 2017 10:09
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Here's an alternative procurement scheme: 1x Tornado ECR (100 000 000) - since there was talk of us needing a dedicated SEAD/EAW platform. 4x JAS 39 Gripen C (280 000 000) - a tried and proven flying wonder that can and will do anything we want it to. We need more top of the line stuff - and we are very unlikely to get a chance to buy more during the op. 2x Mirage F.1C-200 (70 000 000) - a far more expensive, but also, in my view, better dedicated bomb truck than the lovely bad old grimey dusty rotten Vietnam-era garbage punk Phantoms. This variant cannot carry Paveways, but we have way more than enough other craft that can. It can carry And a side buy from our good friend Ivan Ivanovich Ivanov: 1x SA-22 (21 600 000) - for any and all air defence needs we may ever have. 2x Mi-24 Hind-D (40 800 000) - a rocket truck, a CAS craft, and a big boon to our boys on the ground, including ferrying their asses in and out of ops? Also a Hind-D? Sign me right the gently caress up, brother. Considering we both support ground forces and have ground forces, this would be a huge increase in capability for our force and I am super excited for having them on-side.
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Apr 16, 2017 10:17
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Gervasius posted:Yooper, can we talk with Klaus and Pedersen about upgrading the rest of our Gripens to be SDB capable? I asked about this earlier in the thread. I'm not sure how Yooper was planing on doing it in the story, but yes, all of our Gripens will be updated to the 2018 software. Also, for people making proposals. be aware that the EA-6B can only carry 1 HARM. And since only 1 plane is available, if we want real SEAD, we'll need to buy the tornados (or maybe something russian, I'm not very familiar with them). I would like to echo Bacarruda in saying that we definitely will want another tanker. I'm sure we'll have more airspace limitations and the like that mean we need to go the long way 'round, and not every client will have their own tankers to give us a leg up. E: Added stuff about the EA-6B, stressed need for tanker. CBJamo fucked around with this message at 11:19 on Apr 16, 2017 |
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Apr 16, 2017 10:54
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CBJamo posted:Also, for people making proposals. be aware that the EA-6B can only carry 1 HARM. And since only 1 plane is available, if we want real SEAD, we'll need to buy the tornados (or maybe something russian, I'm not very familiar with them). If people are looking for a dedicated SEAD aircraft, the Fencer is very good in that regard, with a choice of three ARMs, including one that travels at mach 4 or thereabouts. Edit: revised my proposal. Quinntan fucked around with this message at 11:23 on Apr 16, 2017 |
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Apr 16, 2017 11:18
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I'm extremely late to the celebrations, but holy poo poo Operation Strict Parenting. This LP is off the chain. Let's go to Angola and work for von Hoff gently caress the tech bros as much as possible. I'd rather have the proposals be compiled into a list before I vote on it.
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Apr 16, 2017 11:35
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Ok, right, procurement. We need a tanker. KC-135 is top of the list. (1*39m*1.2) 46.8m We also require some delicious jams. Get me a Prowler. (1*52m*1.2) 62.4m Expand the Strike and SEAD capability. A fuckton of Tornadoes and Phantoms. (4*30m*1) (4*15m*1) 120m+60m Fixed ground air defenses? We need em. Hawk for a longer range capability, ASRAD for closer in, SIDAM for "welp, gently caress it" (1*20m*1.2) (4*10m*1) (2*5m*1) 24m+40m+10m Bonus new Gripens. Yes. (2*70m*1) 140m 109.2+180+74+140=503.2m If we get murdered enough to lose all our stuff? Then we need to assume a new identity and get some more bank loans and start again, you've got to spend money to make money. Also send Wacky Willie to find some F-111s, thanks, thanks. I hear Australia is nice. Vando fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Apr 16, 2017 |
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Apr 16, 2017 11:58
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Oh yeah, I know my proposal doesn't have Cool poo poo like a P-3 or MY FRIGATE but I feel like we need to save that kind of special snowflake stuff for after we've got a solid core of "can shoot down bad mans" followed up with "can drop a shitload of ordnance on the bad mans" above all else. Even during Strict Parenting I was tutting at our inability to just loving level an at that stage undefended airfield. Never again! Fire and craters for days!
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Apr 16, 2017 12:04
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Who needs a jammer when you can waste the radar with a taurus?
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Apr 16, 2017 12:24
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I would just like to point out that most of Angolan infrastructure is built by the Chinese, and a lot of Angola's natural resources are wholly owned by China. If we want to piss even more in Beijing's coffee, we go to Angola. Seeing as I don't want a nuke up my rear end, I vote we go work for Iceberg Fresh Fish!
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Apr 16, 2017 12:37
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Plane chat is looking good. K&P is stuck with the inventory they have, no upgrades unfortunately. These theaters are going to be much denser. We've got many different factions who all have a very interesting idea of what Angola should look like. Here is Angola's (old) airfield map. 
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Apr 16, 2017 12:47
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Angola is what, about the size of France? It's certainly not that dense! I think we should get at least three gripen, four f4 and more tanker/Sam/radar.
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Apr 16, 2017 12:54
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Voting AngerPeace Tempted by The Count but fighting for peace is like loving for virginity, and I love a bit of rumpy pumpy. Plus, y'know, Fish. It's in the name. I'll back whatever procurement plan has the most Eurotrash jets simplefish fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Apr 16, 2017 |
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Apr 16, 2017 13:10
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I want to revise my proposal as follows: Baseline:
This comes out to $192M from BLFM and, amusingly enough, also $192M from K&P with the 20% minority surcharge. I want to make the final purchase based on theater. Option "A" for "Angola":
Option "B" for "Bering":
The grand total is thus $446M for "A" or $448M for "B".
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Apr 16, 2017 13:30
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You know, those Libertarian gents have a lot of gold. Dollars and such will change their value but gold's always good. Besides, I get the feeling that the Bering straits situation ain't gonna go anywhere. If we buy some planes, we probably can afford to run a quartet of Gripens there for protection duty while the majority of our assets are in Angola like it's 1988. Just don't take any politically risky jobs up in the arctics.
Triple A fucked around with this message at 13:51 on Apr 16, 2017 |
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Apr 16, 2017 13:46
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Voting for Free State I'll let everyone else sort out procurement.
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Apr 16, 2017 14:54
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I will reiterate this: buy Gripens. They are good at pretty much everything.. Air-to-air. Air-to-ground. Anti-shipping. Recon. They're really good at all of these things. They'll kick the rear end of every 3rd- and 4th-generation fighter out there. If we buy just three more, that gives us a lot of options. We can put together an awesome strike package. We could send up a recon bird to scout two potential routes to the target and ID their AA weapons. Then, we can send in five strikers with GBU-12s. All the while, four CAP Gripens orbit overhead with Meteors. That's a grand total of 20 IRIS-T missiles, 20 GBU-12s, and 16 Meteor missiles. Enough firepower to wipe out a wing of MiGs and destroy an entire tank battalion. *************************************************************** Theater vote: Angola. We can trust Von Hoff not to cross us or torture us. *************************************************************** Procurement vote: First Choice -- The Parabellum Plan (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3815107&pagenumber=53#post471418303) Second Choice -- with a STRONG vote to buy an extra KC-135 or get in touch with a tanker contractor to provide per-mission services. Gervasius posted:Proposal: Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Apr 16, 2017 |
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Apr 16, 2017 15:03
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e: ignore
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Apr 16, 2017 15:05
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| # ? May 16, 2024 06:17 |
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Voting LibertarianVando posted:Ok, right, procurement. I'm going to stump for this plan because it covers a lot of what we need for more dangerous theaters. First, some plans seem to be skipping over the Prowler and electronic warfare. We've been lucky so far, without having fought any significant SAMs, but that is going to start changing as we fight people who aren't literal cargo ships with dudes topside packing MANPADS or ancient gun emplacements in the Himalayas. I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing moderately capable, mobile SAMs like the SA-6 or SA-11 out in places like Angola. Take a look at this guy:  This is the SA-6 Gainful, nicknamed the "Three Fingers of Death" by Western pilots. Its missile is faster, goes higher, and and can pull more Gs than any of our planes by far. The solution to this is jamming, so that our Phantoms can knock it out. You might say, "Hey Dong, Phantoms worked great in Vietnam and the Prowler didnt exist yet!" Well, in Vietnam Phantoms only had to go up against the SA-2 and SA-3, and while we might see them in Angola too, think about this: SAMs aren't just one-shot deals. With the exception of self-contained mobile IR SAMS, they are often deployed as batteries with multiple launches and usually a shared radar. If our pilots happen to dodge one missile and expend a bunch of their chaff, there's going to be several more following until they've been run out of energy and get shot down just above the ground. If we can jam that radar and save just one Phantom from being shot down and needing to be replaced, each Prowler will pay for itself. We've been incredibly lucky so far, and Yooper has said as much, but our luck won't hold out forever. Buy Prowlers, guys. Bonus: Prowlers come with a windshield coating in GOLD! Look at this:  Imagine how upset the Libertarians will be when they're fancy toys don't work because of an aircraft literally protected by purestrain gold! This story practically writes itself. Sure, a Fencer can carry more anti-radiation missiles, but that's not the point of the Prowler. The Prowler shuts down enemy fire control and our strike aircraft do the rest. ------------------- Next up, the KC-135  Not too much to say here other than that the fanciest planes won't do us any good if they can't reach where they need to go. Also if for some reason Big Pig gets damaged and is unsuable for a mission, we're horribly crippled. We can't count on a functional air force like our buddies in India to bail us out with logistical support in the future either. I think this is an absolute must-buy so that we have the logistics to pull off future missions. ---------------- AIR DEFENCE Vando is pitching a layered strategy, of the Hawk, the ASRAD, and SIRAD. Let's take a look at these guys.  This is the MIM-23 Hawk. Its essentially a Western SA-6. Someone proposed that we don't need air defence and could just keep fighters on Ready 5. Ready 5 basically means having the the jet on, fueled, and a pilot in the jet ready to take off if there's trouble. We can't keep our jets and our pilots constantly at that state of readiness. The best we could do is Ready 15, and in 15 minutes, a plane going high-subsonic speeds around 500 knots on its way to wreck our poo poo can cover over 100 miles! We need dedicated anti-air forces to hold down our base so our fighters and strike aircraft can actually go fight.   Meanwhile, the ASRAD and SIDAM cover us for planes flying below the minimum altitude for the Hawk so that we don't get caught with our pants down by some opposing Fencers or Frogfoots. They also can't be jammed, so if the enemy gets smart and brings some ECM against our AEW&C or ground radar, we aren't totally boned. The Gripens, Phantoms, and Tornadoes sell themselves, so I don't think I need to discuss why we need a much more robust strike capability and to keep our very capable Gripens in the sky. ----------------- tl;dr: We'll be dead with support capability in more hostile operations. SAMs are the biggest threat to our aircraft, and EWAR Prowlers will pay for themselves. Big Pig is doing a great job, but with our expanded fleet, we need the additional refueling capability of the KC-135 to pull off larger missions. The Hawk, ASRAD, and SIDAM give us dedicated air defence so that we don't have to worry about any low-level strike package wrecking our poo poo, and jets on Ready 15 aren't capable of properly defending the base. Phantoms, tornadoes, and gripens will give us robust air-to-ground and air-to-air capabilities for their price. Vando's Proposal covers everything we'll need for the near future. Any other plan that also includes a tanker, EA-6B, and air defence is probably just as good too. Dong Quixote fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Apr 16, 2017 |
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Apr 16, 2017 16:06
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