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Flowers For Algeria posted:A religious person, especially a Catholic, should have nothing to do in teaching, especially not history. You subscribe to a revisionist and falsificationist ideology. You believe in sin, for god's sake. That's really unhealthy. Think about the kids. 
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Apr 11, 2017 13:18
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Cingulate posted:I unironically believe in falsificationism though, and so should you It is kind of fundamental to scientific inquiry.
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Apr 12, 2017 10:56
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RasperFat posted:It is kind of fundamental to scientific inquiry.
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Apr 12, 2017 13:04
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Cingulate posted:Well there are other respectable views. But that's where I'm putting my faith at least.  Although I think there is a question of whether devoutly religious people are fit to teach many subjects. Case in point: my high school bio teacher (in Orange County, CA, not rural or deep red), was the most religious teacher at our school and ran a Christian club. When he was teaching evolution to us as freshman, he put a huge caveat in front of the entire lesson saying it's just one of many ideas about the origin of humans. This was likely the only formal education on evolution for half of the class, and it was presented as an idea, not a foundational theory that is inextricably part of modern scientific research. It's a travesty and a large contributor to how almost half of Americans don't accept evolution. I'm not sure how to deal with this problem though, because religious tests are stupid and overstep civil liberties. But it would probably do wonders for our education system if we filtered out the fundamentalist teachers.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:24
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While I had a young earth creationist biologist teaching me physics in school, I think that's about the only instance where I would expect an issue and then only if the teacher is a bad teacher.
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Apr 12, 2017 21:42
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OwlFancier posted:While I had a young earth creationist biologist teaching me physics in school, I think that's about the only instance where I would expect an issue and then only if the teacher is a bad teacher. That's why I clarified with saying highly religious teachers. The overwhelming majority of Americans are religious, so obviously most teachers are going to be religious as well. It's the fundies that we have to shoo away from our educational institutions. If your faith interferes with accurately teaching, than you shouldn't be teaching that subject. Any physical science teacher espousing YEC nonsense should be fired for sheer incompetency in their field, even if it isn't biology. Physics, chemistry, geology, etc. are all fundamentally at odds with YEC and espousing that would automatically make them a bad science teacher. It would mean they can't be trusted to accurately teach fundamental theories to students.
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Apr 12, 2017 21:55
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Eh, jobs regularly expect people to do things they don't believe in, if they don't want to do that I would suggest it's a problem with their engagement with the work more than anything.
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Apr 12, 2017 21:57
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Is the left hostile to religion? No. You know who is actually hostile to religion? The right. They take religion and pervert it. They control it. They make it sick and diseased and a slave to their sick desires. Like the disease they are, they make something horrid. Religion has issues, but has a noble pursuit. A lot of traditions of the Abrahamic faith have some stances that should change with the times, this is coming from a catholic. Most sane religious people understand this fact. But, the right pollutes the mind of the vulnerable and desperate and turn them into ravenous beasts that pervert all they touch and violently defend that which should be updated. Many religions have survived by being willing to change certain elements with the local environment and culture. It is how Christianity spread and survived. The rightwing is killing it by keeping rigid: there is nothing more hostile than murder.
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Apr 12, 2017 22:09
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I think honestly the right actually changes religion quite a lot, they strip out the bits they don't like and make up bits they do and then find scripture to support them and spread them. American conservative Christian theology is not, as far as I know, remotely theologically conservative if taken with the tradition of US Christian theology before, like, 50 years ago.
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Apr 12, 2017 22:13
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OwlFancier posted:Eh, jobs regularly expect people to do things they don't believe in, if they don't want to do that I would suggest it's a problem with their engagement with the work more than anything. Well that is the nature of work, and why it's not called something else. Which is why if their job performance is poo poo they should be fired. Downplaying evolution or promoting young Earth creationism is a massively lovely job performance from a science teacher, and thus should be fired for being terrible at their job. OwlFancier posted:I think honestly the right actually changes religion quite a lot, they strip out the bits they don't like and make up bits they do and then find scripture to support them and spread them. American conservative Christian theology is not, as far as I know, remotely theologically conservative if taken with the tradition of US Christian theology before, like, 50 years ago. That's kind of how all religions have worked everywhere, America is not special in that regard. Even religions with a highly centralized structure still become almost unrecognizable over the course of a few generations in modern times. The Catholic Church got rid of purgatory, some saints, accepted evolution, and softened (a little) on LGBTQ issues, all within the last 50 years.
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Apr 13, 2017 01:28
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RasperFat posted:Well that is the nature of work, and why it's not called something else. Which is why if their job performance is poo poo they should be fired. Downplaying evolution or promoting young Earth creationism is a massively lovely job performance from a science teacher, and thus should be fired for being terrible at their job. They still believe in a god-concept though, and a pretty specific one at that, so they remain quite recognizable.
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Apr 13, 2017 17:33
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RasperFat posted:Well that is the nature of work, and why it's not called something else. Which is why if their job performance is poo poo they should be fired. Downplaying evolution or promoting young Earth creationism is a massively lovely job performance from a science teacher, and thus should be fired for being terrible at their job. It's an odd leftist whose response to poor job performance related to lack of buy-in is "fire them and replace them" rather than "reduce the worker's sense of alienation from their work."
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Apr 13, 2017 17:38
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OwlFancier posted:It's an odd leftist whose response to poor job performance related to lack of buy-in is "fire them and replace them" rather than "reduce the worker's sense of alienation from their work." Oh stop your pearl clutching you disingenuous hack. It's an odd capitalist whose response to free market labor mechanics is criticism. With respect to knowledge jobs, you have to at least provide the appearance of compatibility with the task you are to perform. I believe we may find it mainstream opinion that sensible nonfundamentalist Christian teachers who can keep their skepticism to themselves can teach science.
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Apr 13, 2017 18:15
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If I opened a business impact analysis with "Risk-based policymaking is only a theory for decision making in information security," I should and would lose my job in a heartbeat for an apparently sudden onset of incredibly poor judgment, gross incompetence, or utter lack of relevant education because I faked my credentials or something. When you open up a discussion on evolution the same way, even if you get on track afterward and teach the material competently, you are planting mental landmines that absolutely have dangerous personal and social repercussions. There is nothing exceptional about the uncertainty of our concensus on species evolution. We teach that we constantly find poo poo wrong in every natural and social science and adapt our understanding on a data-driven basis. "Hey, just an extra reminder that evolution in particular is a living science" is an idealogically-driven extra load of crap.
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Apr 13, 2017 18:32
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RasperFat posted:Well that is the nature of work, and why it's not called something else. Which is why if their job performance is poo poo they should be fired. Downplaying evolution or promoting young Earth creationism is a massively lovely job performance from a science teacher, and thus should be fired for being terrible at their job. THe Catholic Church still has Purgatory. Also about evolution> The Catholic Church has been preety consistent about Man being unique. Hell the Church never even put Origin of Species on it's list They just told people in the 19th century that Man was the result of God's spontaneous blessing.
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Apr 13, 2017 18:46
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Potato Salad posted:It's an odd capitalist whose response to free market labor mechanics is criticism. I think that's actually fairly common when it doesn't work out in their favour.
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Apr 13, 2017 18:47
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Creationists absolutely fit the criteria for lumpenproles. Some people can't be reformed and need to be eliminated.
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Apr 13, 2017 19:07
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Flowers For Algeria posted:They still believe in a god-concept though, and a pretty specific one at that, so they remain quite recognizable. It was a bit of hyperbole, but the point was that religions adopt new positions relatively quickly, even for things that are foundational to their belief structure. OwlFancier posted:It's an odd leftist whose response to poor job performance related to lack of buy-in is "fire them and replace them" rather than "reduce the worker's sense of alienation from their work." If we had full communism now my response would be the same for them retaining their position as a teacher. They're not suitable for the job and somebody else should be doing it. They can still keep their UBI and go gently caress off doing something else. Crowsbeak posted:THe Catholic Church still has Purgatory. Also about evolution> The Catholic Church has been preety consistent about Man being unique. Hell the Church never even put Origin of Species on it's list They just told people in the 19th century that Man was the result of God's spontaneous blessing. I apologize I meant Limbo. I wasn't raised Catholic it's easy to mix up all their weird dogma lingo. And the churches flip on evolution is relatively recent and a departure from the long held beliefs. In 1950 the Pope said "it's ok to discuss evolution as long as we don't talk about the soul part", was mostly downplayed until about 10 years ago when the Pope finally came out and said that creationism can be folded into the Big Bang theory and evolution, which is a ridiculous statement but at least not denying the science as much.
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Apr 13, 2017 19:27
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That's not really fair to Catholics since they never officially denounced evolution. And did a lot of work to contribute to the science of evolution. In the '50s they just made the Church's support of evolution official. YEC and creationism have always been a Protestant thing. Unless you want to count things like Annus Mundi dating which were also never fully adopted by the Western Church.
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Apr 13, 2017 20:02
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Shbobdb posted:That's not really fair to Catholics since they never officially denounced evolution. And did a lot of work to contribute to the science of evolution. As a catholic and the son of a Sunday school teacher, Catholics are not against evolution from my experience. There was some initial skepticism from some, but most just accept it and apply religious significance to it. Essentially, "God made mankind and that's how they did it", basically. Same thing with the Big Bang Theory as well: "God made the universe and this is how they did it", basically. It really is just a Protestant thing.
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Apr 13, 2017 20:26
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Big Bang Theory was developed by Vatican scientists. It was originally met with extreme skepticism in the scientific community because it was way too teleological.
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Apr 13, 2017 23:02
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Shbobdb posted:Big Bang Theory was developed by Vatican scientists. It was originally met with extreme skepticism in the scientific community because it was way too teleological. I wouldn't say extreme skepticism. There was just a lot of cosmological evidence for it yet, but Hubble and others gladly filled in th gap.
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Apr 13, 2017 23:06
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Death to the corpse god. Death to all false gods!
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Apr 16, 2017 17:49
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Shbobdb posted:Death to the corpse god. Death to all false gods! marching to the war of pain, of blood soon our blades shall bring the flood Banners of the flayed skin flying made of mortals weeping, dying Our steel is strong our hearts are stone Fear not mortal you wont die alone we reach the field of darkest green prepare for slaughter not yet seen We fight not for glory, not for land we care not for forts or sand We care not for spoils of shining gold All we seek are the skulls of the bold To pile before our lord of war to raise his throne even more Even as he sits upon the dead to his glory we are led We are his chosen, his disciples pure bringing blood forevermore Our axes keen our bodies hard scarred by he, blessedly marred Sacred Khorne lord of blood For him we die and raise the flood
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Apr 16, 2017 18:14
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Happy Easter everybody. Peace be with you.
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Apr 16, 2017 18:55
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Let this day mark a successful prosecution under the laws of the land.
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Apr 17, 2017 01:59
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Not sure I'm super happy about an empire torturing a communist revolutionary to death, imo.
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Apr 17, 2017 02:01
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OwlFancier posted:Not sure I'm super happy about an empire torturing a communist revolutionary to death, imo. Yes but in doing so they set off his trump card and he gets to live forever. So it was really Rome's loss. 
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Apr 17, 2017 02:30
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jesus may be dead but his Stand「Genesis」will live on forever
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Apr 17, 2017 02:41
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RasperFat posted:Any physical science teacher espousing YEC nonsense should be fired for sheer incompetency in their field, even if it isn't biology. Physics, chemistry, geology, etc. are all fundamentally at odds with YEC and espousing that would automatically make them a bad science teacher. It would mean they can't be trusted to accurately teach fundamental theories to students. IMO, it usually doesn't really matter whether the teacher is a creationist or not. It might matter in biology or geology classes. A lot of physics and chemistry has very little to do with evolution or the earth being old or whatever.
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Apr 17, 2017 04:05
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There's no reason to single out beliefs just because they are religious. Is a racist, 9/11 truther or anti-vaxxer less likely to teach harmful things? People can believe whatever as long as it doesn't interfere with their work and they can teach the curriculum in a professional and objective manner.
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Apr 17, 2017 05:17
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Calibanibal posted:jesus may be dead but his Stand「Genesis」will live on forever Wouldn't it be 「Living on a Prayer」?
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Apr 17, 2017 05:19
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silence_kit posted:IMO, it usually doesn't really matter whether the teacher is a creationist or not. It might matter in biology or geology classes. A lot of physics and chemistry has very little to do with evolution or the earth being old or whatever. Both physics and chemistry require adherence to basic accepted scientific principles that are inseparable from the time scales required for evolution. Chemistry and geology are highly related and some chemical processes take thousands of years. Physics is also intertwined with an expansive timescale, given the entire field of astronomy. All of the modern sciences are related, so espousing young earth creationism throws all of it out the window. You can try to compartmentalize, but then you have to get to ridiculous nonsense like God created a supernova 100,000,000 light years away, but sent the beams of light ahead magically to reach Earth making it just appear that a supernova occurred hundreds of millions of years ago. It's crazy town teaching and should be kept far away from a science classroom.
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Apr 17, 2017 09:39
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I suppose a young earth creationist could teach science competently simply by believing that he is teaching lies for money, as per his job. It's not a good starting point however, and you have to wonder, why would they choose that profession.
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Apr 17, 2017 11:11
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RasperFat posted:Both physics and chemistry require adherence to basic accepted scientific principles that are inseparable from the time scales required for evolution. Chemistry and geology are highly related and some chemical processes take thousands of years. Physics is also intertwined with an expansive timescale, given the entire field of astronomy. Not really? You can get a Ph.D. in physics and never take a class on or study cosmology. It really isn't relevant to a lot of areas of physics. The physics of the Big Bang, etc. certainly isn't the subject of a high school class. Whether the teacher is a creationist or not is pretty irrelevant for high school physics. It is the same with chemistry too.
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Apr 17, 2017 14:50
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KillerQueen posted:Wouldn't it be 「Living on a Prayer」? thats better than mine yeah
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Apr 17, 2017 14:52
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Bates posted:Is a racist, 9/11 truther or anti-vaxxer less likely to teach harmful things? Given the overlap between groups, they are equally likely.
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Apr 17, 2017 14:59
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silence_kit posted:Not really? You can get a Ph.D. in physics and never take a class on or study cosmology. It really isn't relevant to a lot of areas of physics. The physics of the Big Bang, etc. certainly isn't the subject of a high school class. Whether the teacher is a creationist or not is pretty irrelevant for high school physics. It is the same with chemistry too. I think you might be conflating creationist with young earth creationist. While I personally think it's still void of merit, a Deist style creationist position is tolerable. God just started everything. It's a cop out but a difficult/borderline impossible belief to disprove. Young Earth creationists believe the universe is less than 10,000 years old, created mostly as is. A college freshman level understanding of either physics or chemistry would show how ragingly stupid this is. YEC are zealots who would taint their classrooms to promote their worldview. Even if they are "just" teaching chemistry, their insane belief bleeds through in how the information is presented.
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Apr 17, 2017 17:30
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RasperFat posted:I think you might be conflating creationist with young earth creationist. While I personally think it's still void of merit, a Deist style creationist position is tolerable. God just started everything. It's a cop out but a difficult/borderline impossible belief to disprove. Regardless, while I have no problem with Creationists versus YEC, there's a time and a place to teach that: Church and Sunday School. Not Public Education. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Apr 17, 2017 |
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Apr 17, 2017 17:36
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CommieGIR posted:Regardless, while I have no problem with Creationists versu YEC, there's a time and a place to teach that: Church and Sunday School. That would be nice, but YEC are rarely capable of completely silencing their insanity publicly. The values of our teachers and other authority figures are imprinted on the young generations; a "science" teacher personally being a YEC adds unwarranted validity to the bonkers idea, as well as diminishing the validity of physical sciences in general. School lessons don't happen in a vacuum, that YEC will see a good chunk of their students in church and around town. This wishy washy attitude towards teaching our children the verifiable truth is one of the reasons Americans hold so many more crazy beliefs about science than people of other developed nations. 15% of Americans, at minimum, support YEC. People like to say that's a small number but that's more than all Black Americans. It's a serious issue that has more effects than people believing in incredibly stupid things. Climate change and YEC are two peas in a pod. That's an issue that threatens literally billions of lives and the well being of the entire planet. But no we have to respect the retarded beliefs of cultish zealots who are actively loving up the world. YEC is batshit crazy and absolutely a black mark against a science teacher. Enough so that they are unfit for a teaching science at our public schools.
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Apr 17, 2017 18:02
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