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There's a fair amount of religious undercurrent in the alt-right. Alt-righters have a huge boner for patriarchal, old world organizations that disallow dissent and use their beliefs as a system to discount the varied beliefs of others. They also tend to fetishize the fictional past full of idealized archetypes and they often use religion to cling to that. So you see a lot of them drawn to things like Eastern Orthodox, with it's long history of support for white supremacists and white nationalists (especially in Eastern Europe and Russia where the whole race and Islam thing is very intertwined) or Asatru/Norse Paganism (which isn't a racist faith per-say, but it attracts and harbors vast amounts of people with directly racist beliefs or at least what you would define as uncomfortable leanings). You also get small pockets who are in the straight up racist religions like Creativity/British Israelism/Odinism/etc although they'll usually present it as some kind of fetishized warrior bullshit about how all races have their own religions and its not racist to belong to a religion that actively is for your race only. In the online only circles like /pol/ and the like you mostly just see groups of teens adhering to whatever religious group they think is coolest for internet points or instead eschewing the entire concept of religion for a religious dogma based view of ideology. You have all the *pill people who basically treat normal human life choices (like "working out a lot" or "developing bushcraft skills") as a sort of pseudo-asceticism because they all come from homogenized middle class white areas where that kind of barely diverse thought can be considered a life changing revolutionary action. You also have the Militia/Patriot movement which is where a huge amount of the older supporters of various alt-right movements originate from. People lump them in with the Tea Party Republicans but I'd argue their focus on fascist-esque militaristic dress-up, radical interpretations of laws, far right nationalist ideology and the fact that so many of them were cast out from the Tea Party groups for being too far right and too psuedofascist places them within the scope of the Alt-Right. It's also important to note that much of the alt-right began in the white supremacist movement of the 80's and 90's. There was a shift where people who had been involved in groups like Aryan Nations and Blood and Honour realized that hard racism wasn't going to win them favors or votes, so they implemented a new style of "soft" racism that basically was designed to ease people into the idea of supporting white nationalism and racist policy. Instead of saying "all non-whites are sub human mongrels" they switched to "we need stronger immigration policy" and other things that basically put their "babysteps towards a white state" platform in line with modern conservative talking points. This whole "trading your Klan robes for suits and ties" ideology is almost certainly the genesis of the modern alt-right as it lead to the popularizing of many if not all the talking heads, commentators and pseudo racist intellectuals that would become the main influence on the people who would go on to form the commonly thought of clique of alt-right talking heads and influencers.
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Apr 13, 2017 08:57
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See I never thought the Alt-Right had anything to do with the militia crowd. My experience with the Alt-Right is they're a bunch of computer nerds and would quite frankly be eaten alive if they messed with real racist gangs or organizations. It's like how I was glancing at Richard Spencer's Wiki profile and saw that he had nothing but college degrees in social sciences. (this struck me as quite amusing given that my encounters with the Alt-Right and Neoreactionaries is they all think "soft science" is the mark of an indoctrinated libtard who knows nothing compared to HARD SCIENTISTS who know that it's scientific fact that colored people and women are inferior to white men) I figured the DE crowd were mostly like, I dunno, Monarchists. That's at least kind of sensible for a bunch of pampered guys who like to sit around talking about their inferiors. The problem with Fascism is it's almost uniquely hostile to philosophy or professional intellectuals. If you aren't out there getting elbow deep in the glorious blood of battle, you're less than worthless.
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Apr 13, 2017 10:31
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NikkolasKing posted:Secondly, when thinking about the differences between these groups, I have to wonder why you don't hear more about conflicts within their community/movement? "White Nationalism" is an inherently mindless, soulless ideology below even Nazi race theories because "white" isn't a thing. The Nazis would not consider German white guys on the same level as Anglo-Saxon white guys and for the other side, there was a lot of anti-German racism during World War 1. So I just don't understand why you don't hear more about, say, Neo Nazis throwing down with the KKK. On top of differing race hierarchies, The Klan were supposed to be WASP incarnate and Neo Nazis, if they are any religion, seem to be Neopagans. Radical Christians and racial pagans probably shouldn't get along for any number of reasons. A good example of this is the recent implosion of the far-right English Defence League in England - they are back now to a degree, but not to the extent they were about 5 years ago. A big part of this was that members couldn't agree on who was the bigger threat, Islam or international Jewry, or whether slavs counted as white or not. Don't let anyone tell you that circular firing squads are confined to the left.
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Apr 13, 2017 10:46
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Caveatimperator posted:Now these groups are not mutually exclusive. A lot of libertarians are racist, and a lot of neoreactionaries admire Trump and Le Pen. That's crank magnetism for you. Crank Magnetism, mixed with lack of direction in life leads to people worshipping Trump as a pseudo-father figure. El Estrago Bonito posted:
This is very true, but you've neglected mention of viewing the Crusaders as totally cool awesome people. Listlessness is what I'd call a source of a lot of alt-righter's interest in the movement. A huge portion of people just don't really feel like the old political system doesn't work and have banded together a new internet-flavoured form of right-wing intensity. They hate the same stuff as the GOP, just for different reasons.
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Apr 13, 2017 12:25
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The alt-right is 4Chan Does Politics, the Dark Enlightenment is 4Chan Does Philosophy, that's really all you need to know about it
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Apr 13, 2017 14:10
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ate all the Oreos posted:The alt-right is 4Chan Does Politics, the Dark Enlightenment is 4Chan Does Philosophy, that's really all you need to know about it Yeah, trying to define them more specifically than that is a waste of everybody's time.
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Apr 13, 2017 14:46
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ate all the Oreos posted:The alt-right is 4Chan Does Politics, the Dark Enlightenment is 4Chan Does Philosophy, that's really all you need to know about it Pretty much. Distinction without a difference.
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Apr 13, 2017 15:58
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I like that Wesley Smorgasboard and his Insight Porn Pals spent years calling the humanities "subsided hobbyism" and comparing it to giving money to Star Wars cosplay, and he is now currently whining about the US government not supporting smart high-IQ low-status people who read insight porn blogs like himself, without him having to get a job.
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Apr 13, 2017 17:03
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The one thing that's readily apparent over the past few years or so of mainstreaming these views is how vapid they are. It shouldn't be so surprising that the reactionary mode is is basically a defense of incuriosity but the more you dig into what these guys are about, all you come up with is pathology. For anything approaching a real critique of society you have to leave their tiny world.
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Apr 14, 2017 03:40
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LessWrong 2017 is shocked, shocked at the notion that they might have anything to do with neoreaction.
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Apr 14, 2017 22:57
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I am shocked, shocked at their shocked shock.
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Apr 15, 2017 02:37
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I had started writing up a huge effortpost on Kierkegaard (the Danish philosopher, not the weird HBD/Scientific Racism guy) and the philosophical reasoning why they're examining things through faith, rather than ethics (broadly standing in for reason), but then I realized no one gives a poo poo about philosophical takedowns here. Suffice to say - by embracing a non-provable hypothesis regarding death and the inevitability of AI, they are rejecting both the appreciation of aesthetics (broadly - the humanities and their overall worth) as well as ethics, framing the whole thing as faith masquerading as ethics via a series of redirections and justifications that ultimately tie back to a hope towards extending the aesthetic into the eternal. Seriously, y'all should read Fear and Trembling. Real philosophy is pretty awesome, whereas cargo cult philosophy works in terms of laying out massive screeds that are either hyperfocused on minutia or generalize by skipping important steps. It's the same rejection of the humanities that leads to the delightful irony of poorly-articulated philosophy claiming to be above previous great thinkers without examining the necessary frameworks. I was going to work in a joke regarding Kierkegaard's use of Abraham and Issac, which features Eliezer as a prominent reason why ethics are abandoned for faith, but it seemed like too much of a stretch. They're well-meaning in a lot of ways, but could really use some proper philosophy to at least get the basics down. It's hard as hell.
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Apr 15, 2017 05:05
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https://twitter.com/BevisSimpson/status/424325884045037568
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Apr 15, 2017 05:11
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Hedningen posted:I had started writing up a huge effortpost on Kierkegaard (the Danish philosopher, not the weird HBD/Scientific Racism guy) and the philosophical reasoning why they're examining things through faith, rather than ethics (broadly standing in for reason), but then I realized no one gives a poo poo about philosophical takedowns here. Suffice to say - by embracing a non-provable hypothesis regarding death and the inevitability of AI, they are rejecting both the appreciation of aesthetics (broadly - the humanities and their overall worth) as well as ethics, framing the whole thing as faith masquerading as ethics via a series of redirections and justifications that ultimately tie back to a hope towards extending the aesthetic into the eternal. Don't stop. Please write this and post it here.
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Apr 15, 2017 09:38
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Yeah, I'd be really interested in reading this!
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Apr 15, 2017 13:50
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Someone linked this guy earlier in the thread, and wow, what a brilliant visionary https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2015/10/03/beta-uprising/ Study after study... which I won't link EDIT: Also  in regards to the Kierkegaard thing
The Vosgian Beast has a new favorite as of 15:51 on Apr 15, 2017 |
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Apr 15, 2017 15:46
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I read some of the comments. 
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Apr 15, 2017 16:39
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Hedningen posted:Kierkegaard I enjoy philosophy, but don't know much about Kierkegaard, so I'd love to see this. The Vosgian Beast posted:Someone linked this guy earlier in the thread, and wow, what a brilliant visionary https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2015/10/03/beta-uprising/ With all the 80%-20% stuff, he's almost definitely just talking about the Pareto Principle, which even in its "legitimate" uses always amounts to either "Boltzmann distributions are a thing" or "MBA apophenia."  Fig. 1: Science
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Apr 15, 2017 16:56
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Note the arrows go from double ended to single ended, so men lose all agency. The Stable Marriage Problem is a pretty neat thought exercise too.
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Apr 15, 2017 16:59
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Note the arrows go from double ended to single ended, so men lose all agency. Misandry! 
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Apr 15, 2017 17:06
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Someone linked this guy earlier in the thread, and wow, what a brilliant visionary https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2015/10/03/beta-uprising/ https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2010/12/15/race-realism-and-racism-as-markers-for-rightwing-politics-and-vice-versa/ This reeks of "I compartmentalize minorities between Good Ones and Bad Ones (aka Uppity ones)"
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Apr 15, 2017 23:47
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Race Realists posted:https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2010/12/15/race-realism-and-racism-as-markers-for-rightwing-politics-and-vice-versa/ It reeks of something, I'll grant you that much. quote:I recently spent some time on Chimpout, one of the funniest racist sites on the Internet. If I’m in a nasty mood, it’s funny, but if I’m in a Black-sympathetic mood, most of the humor just bombs on me.
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Apr 16, 2017 00:05
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LessWrong is totally not neoreactionary at all, that's a vicious slander ...quote:
... perpetrated by those darn SJWs who will use this to persecute us!!
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Apr 16, 2017 02:18
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divabot posted:Later, this article will probably be used as a "reliable source" by Wikipedia. Explanations that LW didn't actually "urge its members to think like machines and strip away concern for other people's feelings" will be dismissed as "original research", and people who made such arguments will be banned. Less Wrong will be officially known as a website promoting white supremacism, Roko's Basilisk, and removing female characters from computer games. This Wikipedia article will be quoted by all journals, and your families will be horrified by what kind of a monster you have become. All LW members will be fired from their jobs. And nothing of value will be lost e: Also I'd just like to point out how much I'm enjoying the "SJW's" and "homogeneity-of-outgroup narrative" in the same loving line with absolutely no self-awareness Shame Boy has a new favorite as of 03:40 on Apr 16, 2017 |
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Apr 16, 2017 03:37
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always enjoy rev's frothing reactions to the mildest of articles. this one in question:.. http://strangehorizons.com/non-fiction/columns/freshly-rememberd-kirk-drift/ https://twitter.com/St_Rev/status/853864359529000960 https://twitter.com/St_Rev/status/853865077270859776 https://twitter.com/St_Rev/status/853865714628931584 https://twitter.com/St_Rev/status/853866707093467136 https://twitter.com/St_Rev/status/853866842464677888 Also enjoy his unaware Islamophobia
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Apr 17, 2017 14:47
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Fututor Magnus posted:Also enjoy his unaware Islamophobia No he reached the conclusion that the arab hordes are evil using his logic, it's not hate if you do it rationally!
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Apr 17, 2017 14:51
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ate all the Oreos posted:No he reached the conclusion that the arab hordes are evil using his logic, it's not hate if you do it rationally! Better still, read the article and tell me if you find any "SUDDEN SHRIEKING DROOLING RAGE AGAINST CAPITALISMM". I've done it and found no such thing. But it's funny how rev's lack of awareness extends to unawareness of his tone.
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Apr 17, 2017 15:04
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since ive exiled myself from the negrotown thread (for... obvious reasons..)Race Realists posted:yeah i know
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Apr 17, 2017 17:35
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EEEDPOLE
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Fututor Magnus posted:always enjoy rev's frothing reactions to the mildest of articles. this one in question:.. I don't know why Rev is so down on Christianity. He certainly has adopted the contemporary American Christian persecution complex as his own. Race Realists posted:since ive exiled myself from the negrotown thread (for... obvious reasons..)
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Apr 17, 2017 19:48
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Fututor Magnus posted:Better still, read the article and tell me if you find any "SUDDEN SHRIEKING DROOLING RAGE AGAINST CAPITALISMM". I've done it and found no such thing. But it's funny how rev's lack of awareness extends to unawareness of his tone. Yeah, I skimmed the thing out of curiosity, and I'm left wondering where the hell the dude picked that up from. Maybe there's some kind of weird communist malware on his computer that occasionally screams at him?
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Apr 17, 2017 20:57
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Fututor Magnus posted:always enjoy rev's frothing reactions to the mildest of articles. this one in question:.. For reference, this seems to be the bit he characterizes as "SUDDEN SHRIEKING DROOLING RAGE AGAINST CAPITALISM!!!!": quote:I don’t think Star Trek should be held above criticism: that would be neither healthy nor helpful. But then this chagrined, repetitive “well it’s sexist but” is not healthy or helpful either. Yes, Star Trek is sexist. We all live within a matrix of interests governed by a sexist, racist imperial mechanism of capital. To be sure, there is no ethical production under capitalism and no expression of gender under kyriarchy is pure and uninfluenced by patriarchy. Given this reality, in what ways is ST:TOS sexist? How do we understand its sexism differently than that of our own moment? I'm pretty sure all it takes for Rev to characterize someone as full of "SHRIEKING DROOLING RAGE" is for that person to express a hard-left opinion of any kind, no matter how calmly or politely they do it. OTOH you can all-caps your way through Twitter sputtering about the evils of "SJWs," and it's the height of enlightened discourse to him.
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Apr 17, 2017 21:14
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pookel posted:For reference, this seems to be the bit he characterizes as "SUDDEN SHRIEKING DROOLING RAGE AGAINST CAPITALISM!!!!": I had my bets on "article mentions Marx in passing without going into a shrieking drooling rage against communism", since Rev seems like the type who interprets failure to virtue-signal his values as a vicious attack on them.
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Apr 17, 2017 23:21
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Whoever bought that custom avatar is so right
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Apr 17, 2017 23:23
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By the way, if anyone was wondering, you should read that article on its own merits. I clicked to see the supposed anticapitalist ranting and instead got a pretty interesting article about how we mutate our memories of works of culture to fit popular narratives, and the harms this does.
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Apr 17, 2017 23:27
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pookel posted:For reference, this seems to be the bit he characterizes as "SUDDEN SHRIEKING DROOLING RAGE AGAINST CAPITALISM!!!!": As someone who has ready far too much of his timeline, there's been kind of a slow downward arc ever since gamergate. Like originally he was just kind of a standard libertarian dude with a weird minor tic where he would view people making normative judgements on a left-wing basis as heartless ruthless crusaders coming to steal his social spaces and eliminate all resistance, but aside from that you could tell his brain was functioning at least to some degree, and he was able to at least recognize the alt-right as lovely. But after Gamergate that part of his brain has kind of grown, tumor-like, until all he does now is scream in rage at the evil brownshirts daring to have viewpoints to the left of Ted Cruz and defend the honor of alt-right people due entirely to them not being the evil progs coming to occupy Freakistan
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Apr 18, 2017 00:25
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BobHoward posted:By the way, if anyone was wondering, you should read that article on its own merits. I clicked to see the supposed anticapitalist ranting and instead got a pretty interesting article about how we mutate our memories of works of culture to fit popular narratives, and the harms this does. Yeah, seconded. I was in kind of a hurry, but what I skimmed looked pretty interesting and legit, albeit a little heavily choked by academia speak in spots.
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Apr 18, 2017 01:25
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The Vosgian Beast posted:As someone who has ready far too much of his timeline, there's been kind of a slow downward arc ever since gamergate. It's funny because even if you agree with freaks create progs occupy the third part he doesn't seem to notice is cons destroy.
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Apr 18, 2017 03:05
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Yet again, transhumanism turns out to be plain Christian theology transposed. The writer went to Bible school and shows her working.
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Apr 18, 2017 21:22
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I've argued with a few transhumanists and it's fascinating how sure they are of the whole thing, and that it can't just be a weird faith/religion thing because it's obviously true. You know, unlike all those people who believe in the dumb sky wizard which must be obviously false even to them, the future AI wizard is obviously real and the most likely outcome.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:27
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ate all the Oreos posted:I've argued with a few transhumanists and it's fascinating how sure they are of the whole thing, and that it can't just be a weird faith/religion thing because it's obviously true. You know, unlike all those people who believe in the dumb sky wizard which must be obviously false even to them, the future AI Skynet wizard is obviously real and the most likely outcome.
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Apr 19, 2017 01:04
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