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Alienwarehouse posted:I would join DSA, but I'm really too broke. I guess following them on twitter will suffice for now. You can still go to meetings. These suckers have no way of telling if you're a proper member, so you can get as involved as you'd like and you don't even have to pay for it. It's real amateur hour over here, like they've never even read The Art of the Deal.
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Apr 17, 2017 13:39
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you don't get the sweet 'zines or Organizer Business Cards unless you pay up tho
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Apr 17, 2017 13:45
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The only thing dues paying gets you is the zine, the card, and the ability to count towards an OC/full chapter. Some chapters opt to only let dues paying count for some votes (internal usually) I think, but generally speaking you won't be excluded from anything.
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Apr 17, 2017 23:14
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GlyphGryph posted:Goons are hard at work rewriting the Democratic State Charter in Massachussets as we speak. They are hard at work in Texas running candidates. They are phonebanking and talking philosophy and opening up DSA chapters (I think we have two states where their first DSA chapters were goon founded now) the dem party in my state had berniecrats elected into the state head, and the guys in the dsa pre org comittee are toying with getting a socialist caucus started. probably gonna get jack poo poo done to our congressmen in my state, but im confidant we can get dudes elected state+local if we put our backs in to it
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Apr 17, 2017 23:57
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What if any opinion do ya'll have about DSA being part of Socialist International? I've heard there's a movement to pull out and personally I think that would be a good move but I'm curious what actual members think about it.
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Apr 18, 2017 02:38
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The rally in Portland today was amazing and both Tom and Bernie were on fire. 
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Apr 18, 2017 02:47
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apropos to nothing posted:What if any opinion do ya'll have about DSA being part of Socialist International? I've heard there's a movement to pull out and personally I think that would be a good move but I'm curious what actual members think about it. does it do anything???
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Apr 18, 2017 02:57
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apropos to nothing posted:What if any opinion do ya'll have about DSA being part of Socialist International? I've heard there's a movement to pull out and personally I think that would be a good move but I'm curious what actual members think about it. I don't know enough to have a good opinion, but the people I know who've been floating around leftist orgs for years thinks it's a good idea b.c. it'd attract more normies I think?
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Apr 18, 2017 02:57
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apropos to nothing posted:What if any opinion do ya'll have about DSA being part of Socialist International? I've heard there's a movement to pull out and personally I think that would be a good move but I'm curious what actual members think about it. I'm not super familiar with what we gain from the association, and what we give up.
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Apr 18, 2017 02:59
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Ace of Baes posted:I don't know enough to have a good opinion, but the people I know who've been floating around leftist orgs for years thinks it's a good idea b.c. it'd attract more normies I think? honestly im not sure if they know enough to give a crap one way or another, i know i dont
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Apr 18, 2017 03:05
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Ace of Baes posted:I don't know enough to have a good opinion, but the people I know who've been floating around leftist orgs for years thinks it's a good idea b.c. it'd attract more normies I think? presumably the notion can't be to disavow socialism; so is the idea distancing dsa from internationalism, or it it something specific the socialist international has done or failed to do? either way its hard to believe most people know enough about it to care one way or the other. VVVVVVV ahh ok that makes sense Red Dad Redemption has issued a correction as of 03:21 on Apr 18, 2017 |
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Apr 18, 2017 03:08
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The members who want to leave Socialist International want to do so because it is not actually socialist. For example, its member parties are mostly lovely centrist parties like Labour, the Fench Socialist party, the German SPD, the Indian Congress party, PASOK, the PRI (lol), etc.
Shear Modulus has issued a correction as of 03:18 on Apr 18, 2017 |
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Apr 18, 2017 03:15
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Shear Modulus posted:The members who want to leave Socialist International want to do so because it is not actually socialist. For example, its member parties are mostly lovely centrist parties like Labour, the Fench Socialist party, the German SPD, the Indian Congress party, PASOK, the PRI (lol), etc. So it's like how hardly any progressive lobbying group is actually progressive.
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Apr 18, 2017 04:11
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Shear Modulus posted:The members who want to leave Socialist International want to do so because it is not actually socialist. For example, its member parties are mostly lovely centrist parties like Labour, the Fench Socialist party, the German SPD, the Indian Congress party, PASOK, the PRI (lol), etc. This. SI is decidedly un-socialist. For those who are new to socialism and the importance of internationals, socialism is obviously an ideology that rejects nationalism and embraces internationalism. As such, typically the way to think about socialist parties is that the party is the international organization and the state or national level parties are just the national sections of that party. In practice this isn't always how it turns out but that's the idea behind most socialist parties and internationals. I know for many people it might seem like a "who gives a poo poo" thing but it really is important because funds and organizing efforts within the organization typically go back to the international. This isn't really the case so much for SI because it's not really socialist, but the international party affiliation is pretty important for most socialist parties because the idea is that all the constituent national parties are all working together.
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Apr 18, 2017 04:17
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Shear Modulus posted:The members who want to leave Socialist International want to do so because it is not actually socialist. For example, its member parties are mostly lovely centrist parties like Labour, the Fench Socialist party, the German SPD, the Indian Congress party, PASOK, the PRI (lol), etc. Well then gently caress those assholes. IMO.
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Apr 18, 2017 06:28
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I don't understand the need to devote brainpower to things like this (ie. Infighting over labels) when liberals are at their weakest point in 30 years. Like we're at a point where public education is actively being burned down and we're apparently destroying the healthcare for millions of people out of spite. Wouldn't it make more sense to just worry about our differences once we get the stuff we all generally agree on accomplished? (DISCLAIMER: this is more of a drive thru rant based on the attitudes I've seen in my own chapter as opposed to the current SI discussion)
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Apr 18, 2017 13:07
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Business Gorillas posted:I don't understand the need to devote brainpower to things like this (ie. Infighting over labels) when liberals are at their weakest point in 30 years. In terms of policy goals, totally. The places where I think debates should be happening as we go, and not put off until later, are internal democracy and processes. When I see bullshit vanguardism* creeping, I throw a shitfit and I don't stop. *I'm no historian or theorist so I may be using the term wrong, but I'm talking about if leadership says they know better than the membership about something and don't seek to develop internal democracy.
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Apr 18, 2017 14:12
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New Chapters and OCs that just got added to the map for anyone who interested and close by. New Chapters: Albany, NY Central Iowa Cleveland, OH Kanawha Valley, WV Milwaukee, WI North Central West Virginia New Organizing Committees: Burlington, VT Huron Valley, MI Red River Valley, straddles ND and MN
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Apr 18, 2017 17:53
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I made a big ol' red flag for all the events coming over the next couple of weeks. It was easy enough so here's what I did. No pics, sorry! Materials:
Instructions:
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Apr 18, 2017 18:55
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Business Gorillas posted:I don't understand the need to devote brainpower to things like this (ie. Infighting over labels) when liberals are at their weakest point in 30 years. As an outsider this is my view of the entire phenomenon. Both the GOP and Dems have shown they are extremely vulnerable to populist insurgency. Why join separate organizations when the quickest route to actual power is through one of the existing parties? Unless many DSA members are also Democrats who simultaneously work to elect representatives and drag that party leftward.
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Apr 18, 2017 20:01
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Agag posted:Unless many DSA members are also Democrats who simultaneously work to elect representatives and drag that party leftward. That is exactly what the DSA is.
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Apr 18, 2017 20:06
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an actual dog posted:That is exactly what the DSA is. Ok, that's good then. Historically the organization has backed third parties more often than not. If they are now committed to influencing the Democratic party then that makes more practical sense.
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Apr 18, 2017 20:10
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an actual dog posted:That is exactly what the DSA is. That was Harrington's initial vision but I don't think that's how the organization has always operated in practice (aside from the very high profile example of the Bernie Sanders campaign). From what I've seen there also seems to be a pretty significant number of people who would like to move away from that.
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Apr 18, 2017 20:15
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Hulk Krogan posted:That was Harrington's initial vision but I don't think that's how the organization has always operated in practice (aside from the very high profile example of the Bernie Sanders campaign). From what I've seen there also seems to be a pretty significant number of people who would like to move away from that. I definitely think we should get to the position where we cab field our own candidates. At the very least, it puts us in a position were the dems need us more than we need the dems.
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Apr 18, 2017 20:23
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MizPiz posted:I definitely think we should get to the position where we cab field our own candidates. At the very least, it puts us in a position were the dems need us more than we need the dems. Do you mean backing candidates in Democratic primaries? Or running as an actual third party?
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Apr 18, 2017 20:25
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Agag posted:Do you mean backing candidates in Democratic primaries? Or running as an actual third party? Running as a third party, preferably, but at least be in the position where we can completely disregard the party hierarchy. This isn't to say we shouldn't entrench ourselves with the democrats, just that we should also be able to run candidates against the dems when need be.
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Apr 18, 2017 20:36
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Business Gorillas posted:I don't understand the need to devote brainpower to things like this (ie. Infighting over labels) when liberals are at their weakest point in 30 years. I would actually argue that this is the point more than any other where real vigorous debate should and must be occurring among socialists, especially about our tactical approach to addressing the issues you mention. The reason I say this is precisely because the call to act is so strong right now, yet many actions are either futile or will in no way help build the movement for working people and socialism. A good example of this is the effort put in by many activists and orgs to try and lobby the electoral voters to vote against Trump. Now I'd say this was prolly not something that anyone interested in socialism would be trying to push for or agitate around because it's so obviously not going to do anything to build working class power, but there were many working class individuals and leftists who did devote time and energy to this. A better example now is the debate that I can almost guarantee will increasingly become a point of contention within the DSA which is whether or not it is appropriate or effective to remain in the Democratic party. The DSA has more than tripled it's membership, and I know in my area at least many of those new members come already ascribing to various Marxist and Leninist tendencies and are very much opposed to the Democratic Party and working within it. I can imagine there will be a lot of debate around this issue between the old guard who have been firmly committed to a model of social democracy and the newer members who identify as socialists. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next 5-10 years the DSA experiences one or multiple splits over this very issue if the older leadership and the newer more radical membership base don't reach some sort of consensus. This isn't meant to be negative either, it's an important debate to be had because as socialists our power in the US is limited and so utilizing effective tactics and the correct approach to issues is vital. The DSA has grown immensely in a very short time which is great news for socialism in the US, but it also has the potential soon to become bogged down in serious debate and disagreement internally but what's key is that that debate is not necessarily bad, it can actually help refine and hone the organizations tactics to be more effective. Basically don't be discouraged by debate about theory and tactics because it will in the long run, if done constructively, lead to a more robust and effective organization.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:43
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None of the other big socialist groups participate in electoral politics and looking how well they're doing!
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Apr 19, 2017 02:07
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I dont really see the point behind a big national debate at this point. If your local DSA group wants to work with the dems, cool if not hey also cool. Yes it will happen eventually, but i dont think it will need to happen until after the next presidential election and its pretty much impossible to predict what things will look like then
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Apr 19, 2017 02:13
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Is it time for this conversation again? Run leftist candidates under the Democrat banner and cannibalize the party from within.
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Apr 19, 2017 02:17
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Khalid Kamau is presently ahead in his race, btw. http://results.enr.clarityelections.com/GA/Fulton/68511/Web02/#/cid/70
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Apr 19, 2017 02:36
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Get to know your local political system and try to break it in our favor. There's not going to be just one answer with all these disparate systems.
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Apr 19, 2017 02:40
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Internet Explorer posted:Is it time for this conversation again? Run leftist candidates under the Democrat banner and cannibalize the party from within. no thnx
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Apr 19, 2017 02:45
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I'm biased because of my particular political philosophy, but I think worrying about how we interact with the Democrats at the national level is thinking too far ahead. Cities and counties have myriads of positions ripe for the proverbial socialist plucking and depending on where you live and organize it may not even require party affiliation to get the ball rolling. We need to reteach the American public just why they need socialism after decades of the left in this country being basically a punchline, that's not going to happen without getting them used to us at the most immediate, accessible level of political engagement.
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Apr 19, 2017 02:50
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SomeMathGuy posted:I'm biased because of my particular political philosophy, but I think worrying about how we interact with the Democrats at the national level is thinking too far ahead. Cities and counties have myriads of positions ripe for the proverbial socialist plucking and depending on where you live and organize it may not even require party affiliation to get the ball rolling. We need to reteach the American public just why they need socialism after decades of the left in this country being basically a punchline, that's not going to happen without getting them used to us at the most immediate, accessible level of political engagement. There are quite a few members in the local group who seem to not want to face that we're tied to the democratic party at the moment. How do you convince members to stop seeing themselves as running parallel to the Democrats and see that the groups, at least locally, need to intersect? We have 3 members who go to the county Dem meeting, but I don't think it's enough to sway anything against the old guard.
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Apr 19, 2017 03:23
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If people in your chapter don't want to do electoral politics they don't have to, if they want other people not to engage in electoral politics there's a bunch of socialist groups for that.
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Apr 19, 2017 03:42
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Ruzihm posted:I made a big ol' red flag for all the events coming over the next couple of weeks. It was easy enough so here's what I did. No pics, sorry! Much respect to the idea, but ew. If you're in LA, I've got a sewing machine that should be adequate to making that thing last for more than one demo, otherwise I'm sure it'd only take a half hour or so with needle and thread to get that thing solid.
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Apr 19, 2017 03:44
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electoral politics is one avenue to change but it is absolutely not the only avenue.
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Apr 19, 2017 03:45
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Ace of Baes posted:If people in your chapter don't want to do electoral politics they don't have to, if they want other people not to engage in electoral politics there's a bunch of socialist groups for that. I guess it's just that we had a member as a candidate for city council, and we campaigned for him, so the group does want to be involved... but maybe it's just circumstance.
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Apr 19, 2017 03:46
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imo DSA should be trying to get actual socialists and lefties elected and not spending energy on lesser-evil Dems. Lord knows there are plenty of people doing that.
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Apr 19, 2017 03:49
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