blugu64 posted:

the tolerant left

Spunky Psycho Ho posted:

Yah and he's saying the Dems are projecting blame instead of looking at their own failures, just like every sane person has been saying

And the media is a stupid hype machine you shouldn't believe.

Chalk another one up for Trump/Prorat

Dizz posted:

I really feel bad for you.

blugu64 posted:

the tolerant left

Mordor She Wrote posted:

The tolerant left is the problem, the left should be very very intolerant of the right.

Who What Now posted:

Typical subhuman conservative.

new phone who dis posted:

Wilson was one of the only sane minds that advocated for a less draconian settlement than Versailles.

quote:

Herbert Hoover was way loving worse than GWB. He had unpaid military members camped out in winter in DC.

VikingSkull posted:

this is a good idea

lumping everyone who isn't in lockstep ideologically with you into the right is a bad idea

blugu64 posted:

And I vote!

Who What Now posted:

You wanted us to be less tolerant and then you bitch when you get exactly what you asked for. Typical subhuman conservative.

Spunky Psycho Ho posted:

You should be less tolerant. Of the corporatists and race baiters in the left's ranks.

Majorian posted:

You're right, I misremembered.

Still, dude put his name on pretty much the worst International Relations school of thought, and for that, I'll always dislike him, at least a little.


Hoover was bad, but I don't think he was worse than Dubya. Dubya single-handedly did the impossible and made the Middle East exponentially worse than it's ever been, he made conflict with Russia inevitable, he tried to privatize social security, he tried to amend the Constitution to outlaw gay marriage, and he put Alito on SCOTUS. gently caress him, he's the worst.

Bholder posted:

That's literally what you are doing though

Spunky Psycho Ho posted:

You should be less tolerant. Of the corporatists and race baiters in the left's ranks. You need to purge out the the ideologically impure. Usually after losses, teams start purging out the losers, instead they're putting Hillary in as QB again

Majorian posted:

Who would the race baiters be, Spunky? Also give me an example or two of their race baiting.

Who What Now posted:

Ill get to that after the real enemy, meaning actual racists and homophobes like you, are ground into the dust.

Spunky Psycho Ho posted:

You literally said society is made up of people stifling their own inherent racism to get along, you're a race realist lmao... funny how it's always projection coming from folk like you

Who What Now posted:

Yes. This is the basis upon which all civil society is based on. Its been like this since the dawn of recorded history.

Spunky Psycho Ho posted:

This was about "lying about your racist motivations" meaning society is people pretending to not be racist

new phone who dis posted:

You're just that invested because you were alive for it. If you were alive for Hoover's handling of The Great Depression, I'm 100% sure you would have found that worse.

Who What Now posted:

Its any black person that doesn't act like Uncle Tom from Song of the South. Come on, you should know his beliefs by now.

new phone who dis posted:

You're just that invested because you were alive for it. If you were alive for Hoover's handling of The Great Depression, I'm 100% sure you would have found that worse.

Majorian posted:

Sssh, I want to hear how he words it.

Majorian posted:

Well, possibly. But to me, I'm more interested in the impact that these presidents had on the world at large. Hoover obviously hosed up gloriously in the Great Depression, but he didn't plant the seeds of it. The stock market crash was going to happen, regardless of what he did or didn't do - he just made the crisis a lot worse. His global impact was smaller than Dubya's, and that's what I'm more interested in personally: how much President A hosed up the world as opposed to President B. I don't think there's any comparison, personally: Bush took the U.S.' unipolar moment, and squandered it in a campaign that turned the Middle East into one giant-rear end proxy war.


Sssh, I want to hear how he words it.

new phone who dis posted:

The Middle East has been a proxy war since the 1950s. GWB hosed up Iraq but on the historical presidential scale he's really not even in the top 10. Haha I almost forgot that Hoover was also a prohibitionist.

Nut to Butt posted:

Hoover and FDR were running the same worthless interventionist playbook, but because much of the "history" accepted as gospel these days was written by FDR lackeys and fellow travelers, it's rare to encounter anyone who knows this.

Rexford Tugwell, part of FDR's "Brain Trust" confessed: "We didn’t admit it at the time, but practically the whole New Deal was extrapolated from programs that Hoover started."

You should read "The Forgotten Man: A New History of the Great Depression" if you'd like a deeper understanding than Krugman-esque talking points for ideologues.

https://www.amazon.com/Forgotten-Man-History-Great-Depression/dp/0060936428

Spunky Psycho Ho posted:

Yah right, I'm not going to go through a quagmire of "is this racist? is that racist? that's racist!"

Who What Now posted:

See, you're a cowardly pissbitch that doesnt have the balls to own up to his beliefs. Have some self respect, at least.

"Vitali Shkliarov posted:

Like, instead of like learning from mistakes and move on. Come, the election is over, move on guys. Learn. Like, Russia, sure, maybe they did it. Who cares right now? It’s done already.

[...]

Even if Russia did the election hacking: it’s not about that. Like, nobody is sane. Both parties are hiding some skeletons.

Spunky Psycho Ho posted:

You literally said society is made up of people stifling their own inherent racism to get along, you're a race realist lmao... funny how it's always projection coming from folk like you

Krustic posted:

I disagree. He has to be in the top 3 at least.

World War Mammories posted:

oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy russssiaaaaaaaaaa

spunk, I read the entire greenwald article you linked. good article, since greenwald lets his subject talk. these were the closest things I could find that support you:


guy specifically says he isn't taking a position, and he warns that the Dem establishment would use the narrative as proof that Neoliberalism Cannot Fail, She It Can Only Be Failed. well, yeah, don't think anyone disagrees with that. that says nothing about the factual nature of turmp piss

now for a thing I hadn't paid attention to before this post


i'm pretty sure 'civilization' is a lot about 'suppressing biological impulses'

like, you know, the whole thing about how we are all walking blobs of meat that want to gently caress and kill, with a three-pound clump of neurons on top that foolishly thinks it runs the show, and the meat lets the impulses to gently caress and kill quiet down a little bit in return for dopamine infusions from the neuron clump

maybe this is not the Commonly Accepted View but I put racism ("kill the Other") in that same category of things that people do that civilization should tamp down for universal benefit

Panzeh posted:

It's just right wing pap though there is a point in there where hoover didnt ignore the depression, he just didn't do enough. Hoover did have a history of trying to help devastated regions recover.

Nut to Butt posted:

It's not. It's an important work that eviscerates the 100% wrong historical narrative taught in high schools and colleges across the country. Leftists will make any excuse to delegitimize information they find unpalatable. They'll stoop to whatever depths necessary to besmirch the quality of work underlying that information, and/or the character of its messenger. It's sad, and self-defeating, because it means they never synthesize the information, and rely on hoary arguments to justify their facile understanding of the subject matter. This is why leftism keeps losing in unmoderated internet spaces- because its arguments don't hold up to rigorous and honest scrutiny. So, the illiberal left has embraced Stalin's ethos: “Ideas are far more powerful than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?”

But FDR just didn't do enough either, right? Double down! Leftism cannot fail, it can only be failed!

new phone who dis posted:

Do you have a good handle on how terrible some of our older presidents actually were? Andrew Jackson was terrible. Grover Cleveland was terrible. Johnson and Grant were both astoundingly bad. Nixon was poo poo. Hello, Monroe Doctrine! That's not even counting the long-running South and Central American interventions multiple presidents signed on for that were at least the equivalent of our current day Middle Eastern excursions but closer to home.

bag em and tag em posted:

"if you're so tolerant how come you're intolerant of racists hmm?"

Thats not a cool awesome Gotcha. It's actually bad and stupid, just fyi.

Spunky Psycho Ho posted:

I'm avoiding a 10 page derail

blugu64 posted:

the tolerant left

Dizz posted:

You speak to Spunky as if he is speaking coherent.

Nut to Butt posted:

It's not. It's an important work that eviscerates the 100% wrong historical narrative taught in high schools and colleges across the country. Leftists will make any excuse to delegitimize information they find unpalatable. They'll stoop to whatever depths necessary to besmirch the quality of work underlying that information, and/or the character of its messenger. It's sad, and self-defeating, because it means they never synthesize the information, and rely on hoary arguments to justify their facile understanding of the subject matter. This is why leftism keeps losing in unmoderated internet spaces- because its arguments don't hold up to rigorous and honest scrutiny. So, the illiberal left has embraced Stalin's ethos: “Ideas are far more powerful than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?”

But FDR just didn't do enough either, right? Double down! Leftism cannot fail, it can only be failed!

COMRADES posted: