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Ace of Baes posted:None of the other big socialist groups participate in electoral politics and looking how well they're doing! that's not true, most other socialist organizations in the US participate in electoral politics in some fashion, they just don't have the numbers to run nationwide or often even state level candidates. they also refuse to run as democrats because typically their analysis is that the democratic party is a capitalist party and so socialists should work to build independent power structures outside of it - a position I share personally.
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Apr 19, 2017 03:50
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DSA member Khalid Kamau just won his race for South Fulton City Council https://twitter.com/OurPoliticalRev/status/854511300201861122
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Apr 19, 2017 03:56
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e: ^^^  Ottermotive Insanity posted:There are quite a few members in the local group who seem to not want to face that we're tied to the democratic party at the moment. I think it depends on your local and your local Dems, actually. If they're particularly resistant to change they're only going to be an enemy and it might not be worth your time to convince your local of that point. If they're more willing to gamble on a leftist candidate then increased participation can help you get those candidates a considerable amount of support and increase the chances those candidates get picked over the usual Democratic "lesser evil" bland centrist type. But I don't think there's a blanket prescription. SomeMathGuy has issued a correction as of 04:02 on Apr 19, 2017 |
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Apr 19, 2017 03:56
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HorseRenoir posted:DSA member Khalid Kamau just won his race for South Fulton City Council 
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Apr 19, 2017 03:56
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HorseRenoir posted:DSA member Khalid Kamau just won his race for South Fulton City Council hell fuckin yeah
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Apr 19, 2017 03:58
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HorseRenoir posted:DSA member Khalid Kamau just won his race for South Fulton City Council 
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Apr 19, 2017 04:00
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apropos to nothing posted:that's not true, most other socialist organizations in the US participate in electoral politics in some fashion, they just don't have the numbers to run nationwide or often even state level candidates. they also refuse to run as democrats because typically their analysis is that the democratic party is a capitalist party and so socialists should work to build independent power structures outside of it - a position I share personally. I meant electoral politics outside of city council/school boards, I'm for a diversity of tactics but MLs who try to impose their view of not working within the system don't belong in the DSA imo. We have a shot at actually making socialism popular in the us and ignoring opportunities to take power is bad.
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Apr 19, 2017 04:01
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i dont know why you would want to run as a demoncrat when you can clearly get a populist republican vote as well- its extremely ignorant to ignore those voters. There is no need to avoid running 3rd party at small local levels imo. you wont be getting national dnc funding anyway e: demoncrat is a typo, im not that insane btw all lol fuck. marry. t-rex has issued a correction as of 04:12 on Apr 19, 2017 |
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Apr 19, 2017 04:08
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gently caress. marry. t-rex posted:i dont know why you would want to run as a demoncrat when you can clearly get a populist republican vote as well- its extremely ignorant to ignore those voters. There is no need to avoid running 3rd party at small local levels imo. I agree for small local races, but FPTP voting means after a certain point you just end up electing republicans who shut down abortion clinics
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Apr 19, 2017 04:11
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SomeMathGuy posted:e: ^^^ It really is a strange beast, the county Dems. The ones at the top insist they want change, and mostly do, but there are a dozen members who believe because they marched in 1988 about some bullshit that they know better. It'd be difficult to get a majority on the main dem committee, but there's enough likeminded and young people now that pushing the party out of atrophy isn't impossible. Surprisingly it's the entrenched union folks who push against more left leaning platforms; locally at least.
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Apr 19, 2017 04:20
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gently caress. marry. t-rex posted:i dont know why you would want to run as a demoncrat when you can clearly get a populist republican vote as well- its extremely ignorant to ignore those voters. There is no need to avoid running 3rd party at small local levels imo. Yeah, leftists should run as Republicans. 
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Apr 19, 2017 05:03
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Ottermotive Insanity posted:It really is a strange beast, the county Dems. The ones at the top insist they want change, and mostly do, but there are a dozen members who believe because they marched in 1988 about some bullshit that they know better. It'd be difficult to get a majority on the main dem committee, but there's enough likeminded and young people now that pushing the party out of atrophy isn't impossible. I went to a county Dem meeting the other day to scout it for socialism and 90% of the crowd there was strictly senior citizens, so I don't know how receptive they'd be to actual leftists (I also didn't ask, maybe next time). This is also in Florida, where olds go to die, so ymmv
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Apr 19, 2017 05:28
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Don't lose sight of the fact that DSA is not a political party and is very limited as to how involved they can be in endorsing candidates or influencing elections. The policy, in accordance with limitations of the tax exempt status, is to work on building a solid grassroots foundation. The priority of national seems to be leaning toward building a more inclusive and diverse organization first. This makes sense because we can't go around trying to convince people of something we can't achieve in local chapters let alone nationally. I hope this changes and I expect there will be a lot of discussion about creating a separate entity devoted to electoral politics at the national convention but with all the infighting and purity tests I think we've got a long way to go.
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Apr 19, 2017 05:46
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Only took 48 minutes for infighting to start on the new member orientation conference call tonight. I'm one of those new members, but I'd call that a victory.
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Apr 19, 2017 05:55
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Fullhouse posted:I went to a county Dem meeting the other day to scout it for socialism and 90% of the crowd there was strictly senior citizens, so I don't know how receptive they'd be to actual leftists (I also didn't ask, maybe next time). This is also in Florida, where olds go to die, so ymmv Don't count out the olds. We have a few seniors I'm our dsa group. They like to tell stories though, more than doing something. Some of them have some crazy radical ideas out there too. But honestly, socialism needs to be political. Even the national dsa commits a large section of their resources on campaigns. And local Dem parties are ripe for the socialist picking. I think we offer new (well old, but unused) words to what many of them already believe.
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Apr 19, 2017 06:06
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Socialism is great because the more you study theory you more you realize how insanely horrible and toxic capitalism is and how it ruins absolutely everything, it's catchy.
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Apr 19, 2017 08:20
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im mostly just in it for the righteous violence
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Apr 19, 2017 08:50
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HorseRenoir posted:DSA member Khalid Kamau just won his race for South Fulton City Council Ah that makes me happy.
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Apr 19, 2017 09:02
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Look. It's not that simple. Some localities put huge barriers to third parties. It can make a lot of sense to eat the Democrats from within. In solid blue areas it may be easier to get on the ballot as a third party. Heck, if you can get on the ballot as a Republican give that a shot. Being party blind and opportunistic has worked a few times for the Free Staters in NH. Fullhouse posted:I went to a county Dem meeting the other day to scout it for socialism and 90% of the crowd there was strictly senior citizens, so I don't know how receptive they'd be to actual leftists (I also didn't ask, maybe next time). This is also in Florida, where olds go to die, so ymmv "Socialist Grandparent" is the number 2 DSA demographic.
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Apr 19, 2017 12:25
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Ace of Baes posted:I agree for small local races, but FPTP voting means after a certain point you just end up electing republicans who shut down abortion clinics FPTP plus restrictive ballot access laws. this still leaves a fair amount of latitude, though (as, unfortunately, the tea party experience demonstrates): it just means you're using the D ballot line, either by running what amounts to a dsa candidate as a democrat, or where that can't be done, laying the groundwork (and using primaries) to get the best non dsa candidate and platform for that ballot line
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Apr 19, 2017 13:35
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Grand Prize Winner posted:Much respect to the idea, but ew. If you're in LA, I've got a sewing machine that should be adequate to making that thing last for more than one demo, otherwise I'm sure it'd only take a half hour or so with needle and thread to get that thing solid. Ya, it's definitely not the most professional work ever. I appreciate you sharing the  M E A N S O F P R O D U C T I O N with me but I'm in MD.
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Apr 19, 2017 15:43
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DSA and SA have been holding joint debates/discussions around the country on building the socialist movement under Trump. This weekend in NYC Kshama Sawant and Bhaskar Sunkara will be speaking. The event's supposed to be livestreamed on the 22nd with a link to watch posted on the event page when it starts: https://www.facebook.com/events/1836389983248453/
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Apr 19, 2017 19:40
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Ruzihm posted:Ya, it's definitely not the most professional work ever. I appreciate you sharing the Much respect for making the flag in the first place, comrade!
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Apr 20, 2017 00:04
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Anyone planning on going to one of the Marches for Science this saturday? I plan on going to the DC march. Apparently there's going to be a trump rally happening as well, so It could be a good opportunity for socialists to make a showing to show that the left cares more than the right about public science.
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Apr 20, 2017 22:40
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nope; half because science marches are usually choke-full of the type of smug dude I hate, and half because I need to store up my energy to go yell at ann coulter in a week
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Apr 20, 2017 23:12
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There's going to be one in Staten Island. We're actually trying to get a DSA presence there, if anyone's interested.
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Apr 21, 2017 00:01
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I signed up for membership after the election, add me to the DC crew.
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Apr 21, 2017 00:04
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Yes. I plan on attending.
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Apr 21, 2017 01:11
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gently caress. marry. t-rex posted:nope; half because science marches are usually choke-full of the type of smug dude I hate, and half because I need to store up my energy to go yell at ann coulter in a week https://twitter.com/cushbomb/status/823081796422291456
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Apr 21, 2017 05:23
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what do you call the fallacy where I loving Love Science, Randall Monroe, etc. is considered revolutionary
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Apr 21, 2017 05:29
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:what do you call the fallacy where I loving Love Science, Randall Monroe, etc. is considered revolutionary liberalism
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Apr 21, 2017 05:31
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:what do you call the fallacy where I loving Love Science, Randall Monroe, etc. is considered revolutionary You convert them into socialists, the dude who does all of the record keeping and stuff at my chapter was one of those kind of dudes like a year ago, and still kinda is but also believes in socialism as a model of government/society.
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Apr 21, 2017 05:31
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Socialism isn't just for people who have read a bunch of Marx or know all the right twitter takes to have, it's for everyone.
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Apr 21, 2017 05:32
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oh hey our piss-brained president made science subversive better take some time to whine about these millions of people pissed off and demanding change, they don't have the same leftist credentials i do *lovingly pats disorganized stack of printed out mIRC conversations*
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Apr 21, 2017 05:36
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Also the science march is the best place to explain to people the link between capitalism and climate change, which the greatest victims of are the global south (who live in poverty), also it's going to probably kill most of us if huge measures aren't taken in the next 15 years.
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Apr 21, 2017 05:39
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Here's some march for science-y things that relate to capitalism *Flints water supply was poisoned because Republican Governor Rick Snyder installed a Private Manager over Flint who switched the water supply to save money. *Climate Change is literally going to loving kill us all because corporations are so drat greedy for profit. *A ton of the strife in the middle east is related to droughts exacerbated/caused by climate change, which is a result of capitalism. *The constant war we've been waging for the past almost 20 years is directly the result of oil companies interests in the Middle East, if someone disagrees with you, look up what happened during the siege of Baghdad with regards to the different ministries. *Capitalism is responsible for the vast majority of pollution in general, and pollution sucks, and right now we have a dude bought by capitalists gutting the EPA.
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Apr 21, 2017 05:44
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I agree with you but at the same time I wouldn't do any of that I'd be a huge bitch so Im gonna stay away
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Apr 21, 2017 08:04
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yeah peopleup in arms about science funding and gag orders on global warming are thiiis close to figuring it out if you can get them to move beyond jon stewart/neil degrasse tyson "smart vs dumb" analyses
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Apr 21, 2017 08:10
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Shear Modulus posted:yeah peopleup in arms about science funding and gag orders on global warming are thiiis close to figuring it out if you can get them to move beyond jon stewart/neil degrasse tyson "smart vs dumb" analyses I mean you just have to bring up that these GOP politicians have Princeton degrees or w.e. they're not stupid they're just raking in millions from energy companies.
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Apr 21, 2017 08:18
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Even if you can't turn a science lib into a socialist you can at least turn them into a Bernie Dem which is 100x better. edit: 100x better than a normal dem, not a socialist Ace of Baes has issued a correction as of 08:33 on Apr 21, 2017 |
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Apr 21, 2017 08:19
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