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People will come up with 'templates' with moveable arms to measure stuff out if they really want to. You could basically do it with some of the scatter templates that are out there.
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Apr 20, 2017 02:42
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 01:43 |
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I love the "continuous effect: fire" ability on fuel cache now. Really gives my Stormwall's Sustained Fire ability an extra nasty kick. Too bad that's going to get nuked after the first round of CID.
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Apr 20, 2017 02:55
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evenworse username posted:Pagani quote. I guess my problem with this new solution is that it doesn't make doing the latter impossible, it just makes it more of a pain in the rear end.
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Apr 20, 2017 03:45
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I think less proxy machine will be fun and y'all are fussin' about nothing
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Apr 20, 2017 04:22
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Jimmy Hats posted:I think less proxy machine will be fun and y'all are fussin' about nothing Just get rid of premeasuring because mk2 was better than the proposed garbage
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Apr 20, 2017 04:33
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Forzelt posted:Just get rid of premeasuring because mk2 was better than the proposed garbage That sure is an opinion
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Apr 20, 2017 04:56
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Premeasured and not premeasured are elegant solutions. Some premeasure is dumb and awkward. Also you can easily put Sloan in a place where she can see the battlefield but has LoS blocked to her 180°. That seems cool and helpful on some casters but it makes the top few even better. lokipunk posted:Skarre2 with black spot and a Kraken can get something obscene like 6 5" continuous fire AOEs a turn with that objective. This is fine. I was going to sass "yea but then you'd be running a kraken," but then I remembered that it's mk3 and it's probably fine.
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Apr 20, 2017 06:58
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Alpha Phoenix posted:I was going to sass "yea but then you'd be running a kraken," but then I remembered that it's mk3 and it's probably fine. In a world of garbage cryx jacks the Kraken is awesome, especially with Skarre2. It wasn't even bad in mk2 so I don't get the sass at all. Edit: I suppose the Sepulcher theoretically outclassed the Kraken in mk2, but it wan't released in time to matter. KPC_Mammon fucked around with this message at 08:28 on Apr 20, 2017 |
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Apr 20, 2017 07:51
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fadam posted:I guess my problem with this new solution is that it doesn't make doing the latter impossible, it just makes it more of a pain in the rear end. 
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Apr 20, 2017 10:37
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Alpha Phoenix posted:Premeasured and not premeasured are elegant solutions. Some premeasure is dumb and awkward. Yeah, but this isn't some pre measure. You can pre measure everything. It just isn't supporting fully pre planning with proxy bases. It's elegant. Using proxies for anything other than checking whether something fits is dumb and awkward. Unfortunately it also helps you win and isn't cheating, so everyone should do the dumb and awkward thing.
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Apr 20, 2017 10:58
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Alpha Phoenix posted:Premeasured and not premeasured are elegant solutions. Some premeasure is dumb and awkward. Wasn't that one of the reason stated for why the rules were changed for MKIII? MKII was the odd pre-measuring mix, because certain distances were measurable and with some skill you could use that to get other measurements. Just allowing everyone to measure everything all the time fixed that. I get what is trying to be done with the SR17 package, but I'm not sure it actually works. It's just going to have some people build protractor type things to measure two distances at once, and the fairly mundane idea of having 3-4 different shapes you can combine to get a random distance like 17" is not allowed. !Klams posted:Yeah, but this isn't some pre measure. You can pre measure everything. It just isn't supporting fully pre planning with proxy bases. It's elegant. Using proxies for anything other than checking whether something fits is dumb and awkward. Unfortunately it also helps you win and isn't cheating, so everyone should do the dumb and awkward thing. I'd mostly agree with this, throwing "I play Skorne and every drat model doesn't fit on its base" in as another reason to use proxies. I agree it's awkward and bad, I just see it as the least bad among the given solutions.
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Apr 20, 2017 12:36
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!Klams posted:Yeah, but this isn't some pre measure. You can pre measure everything. It just isn't supporting fully pre planning with proxy bases. It's elegant. Using proxies for anything other than checking whether something fits is dumb and awkward. Unfortunately it also helps you win and isn't cheating, so everyone should do the dumb and awkward thing. It is not elegant. You can measure everything but you have to do it piecemeal. So it will take longer, lead to more mistakes with no apparent benefit besides satisfying people who don't like to see proxys. I would say it is the opposite of elegant; it is a ad-hoc attempt by PP to get people to play the game the way they want it to be played. So yeah, it is stupid and awkward.
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Apr 20, 2017 12:56
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Premeasure is great, but to spice it up they should really use random charge ranges.
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Apr 20, 2017 13:01
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Any half-decent TO who isn't a turdlord is going to see people with complex protractor wingdings and will walk over and slap them in the face
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Apr 20, 2017 13:21
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!Klams posted:Yeah, but this isn't some pre measure. You can pre measure everything. It just isn't supporting fully pre planning with proxy bases. It's elegant. Using proxies for anything other than checking whether something fits is dumb and awkward. Unfortunately it also helps you win and isn't cheating, so everyone should do the dumb and awkward thing. I don't see how it's dumb or awkward. The only bad part of it is that the table can get cluttered, and they can fix that by making a rule that requires all measuring tools to be removed at the end of a turn.
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Apr 20, 2017 13:29
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Jimmy Hats posted:Any half-decent TO who isn't a turdlord is going to see people with complex protractor wingdings and will walk over and slap them in the face The proposed change by PP is now to allow one measurement distance regardless of the number of tools used to get it. So a protractor widget is out, but combining a bunch of items to get an accurate 17" is explicitly in. Another angle that may be part of PP's motivation-- the markers aren't very telegenic for streaming. It makes it very hard for anyone who is a bystander from quickly figuring out what is going on. There's obviously been a streaming push the last few years, so maybe this is part of it. I'd think getting something other than bare/primed models (not even talking conventional painting, just dark ink washes so anything but the outline is discernable) on the table would be something that would make stuff instantly more viewable, but that's a bridge too far at the moment.
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Apr 20, 2017 14:55
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I assume a push to make it easier to tell what is happening is primarily for the benefit of people who aren't already really into the game. A painting requirement might scare off anyone they might have gained
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Apr 20, 2017 14:58
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:I assume a push to make it easier to tell what is happening is primarily for the benefit of people who aren't already really into the game. A painting requirement might scare off anyone they might have gained That's specifically why I didn't say painting. I wouldn't consider covering a figure in a high contrast wash any more of a high hurdle than actually assembling your models. It does insure that the person on the other side of the table can easily pick out what everything is, even in the awful lighting you get in most stores or event locations. EDIT: I'd also at least also force people to put arc markings on figures. Or at least put molded arc markings on bases like have been done on huge bases. rkajdi fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Apr 20, 2017 |
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Apr 20, 2017 15:08
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Why not just say "proxies only for the model/unit you are activating". I mean i don't see the problem to begin with but that seems waaaaay simpler.
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Apr 20, 2017 15:33
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albany academy posted:Why not just say "proxies only for the model/unit you are activating". I agree, but then again how do you enforce what model/unit proxies are for? I think the issue is that it's basically 100% impossible to enforce intent, but the designers want the game to go away from the carefully designed mousetrap turns. The solution is to not reward these in the game, but the cat's out of the bag on that and most WMH players don't seem to want the randomness that would be required to do that.
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Apr 20, 2017 15:56
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albany academy posted:Why not just say "proxies only for the model/unit you are activating". Because sometimes you need/want to proxy a model you aren't currently activating. For example, while activating your arcnode you might want to proxy where your warcaster is going to move.
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Apr 20, 2017 15:59
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No i get that and i agree, but based on *their* intent why wouldn't they have just gone with the simpler solution? The scenario that pagani outlined would be against the exact sort of thing you're describing.
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Apr 20, 2017 16:02
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rkajdi posted:EDIT: I'd also at least also force people to put arc markings on figures. Or at least put molded arc markings on bases like have been done on huge bases. They should just put arcs on their bases
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Apr 20, 2017 16:03
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rkajdi posted:I agree, but then again how do you enforce what model/unit proxies are for? I think the issue is that it's basically 100% impossible to enforce intent, but the designers want the game to go away from the carefully designed mousetrap turns. The solution is to not reward these in the game, but the cat's out of the bag on that and most WMH players don't seem to want the randomness that would be required to do that. No proxying with huge base size if you're activating IFP? It's a bit more enforceable as it requires you to declare and do something. E.g. If i start proxying bases for IFP then i wouldn't be allowed to pull out a proxy and make sure conquest has enough room until I've finished their activation. Again, i think its a really awkward thing to try to enforce if you're allowing premeasuring in your game, but at least that would be a heck of a lot simpler and less prone to loophole exploitation like building complex multipurpose templates.
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Apr 20, 2017 16:06
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:They should just put arcs on their bases No argument there. Only problem comes down to what to do about older models. Also, if you are still using tabs for figures it might make the front and how the model is facing not line up.
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Apr 20, 2017 16:07
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:They should just put arcs on their bases This needs to happen. The ambiguity of me Marking my own bases acurately is a pain in the dick
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Apr 20, 2017 16:06
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I machined myself a base marker I have the most accurate marked bases EVER
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Apr 20, 2017 16:11
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rkajdi posted:No argument there. Only problem comes down to what to do about older models. Also, if you are still using tabs for figures it might make the front and how the model is facing not line up. If you care about that, you can paint on your own arc markings presumably. Since having the arcs marked is such a key part of gameplay they really should be on the bases I think.
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Apr 20, 2017 16:13
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evenworse username posted:If you care about that, you can paint on your own arc markings presumably. Since having the arcs marked is such a key part of gameplay they really should be on the bases I think. I agree. My point was that you need to specify that stuff not just because you care about it, but because your opponent does too. I get that saying painting arcs on stuff intimidates newer players, but we also ask for non-basic stuff like markers out of them too. Printed arcs are the best way going forward, but just a simple arc template put out on PP's website for people to print and use would make requiring them for Steamroller in no way onerous.
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Apr 20, 2017 16:40
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Would a white out pen work? Maybe I can just mark the arc edges next time I play.
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Apr 20, 2017 16:41
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:Would a white out pen work? Maybe I can just mark the arc edges next time I play. I'd almost go the other way a use a micron pen on a primed model. But yeah white out pens should work, but I'd bet it will scrape off with regular use.
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Apr 20, 2017 16:45
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What's a micron pen and why would the model need to be primed
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Apr 20, 2017 16:51
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I used metallic sharpies and they work pretty well.
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Apr 20, 2017 16:54
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:What's a micron pen and why would the model need to be primed It's a pen you get an art store that has a point that is 1 or even .1 micron wide. Lots of people use them to do artwork on figures, because drawing is easier than painting on that scale. Might be better than white out because these pens cause no or minimal bleeding. They are usually darker colors, so need something lighter to show up against, hence the primer. If you haven assembled your models, you could also build a mask to cover half the base and just spray the markings on. I have a buddy who does this (well, slightly different in that he uses and airbrush on a primed figure) and it takes very little time to do lots and lots of figures.
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Apr 20, 2017 17:00
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Seriously, just buy one of these: http://www.brokenegggames.com/arc-ninjas-30-40-50mm.html
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Apr 20, 2017 17:00
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Paint pens are also like cheating for lettering/numbering squad members for multi-wound infantry.
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Apr 20, 2017 17:07
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A widget like Iron Crowned linked and a metallic Sharpie is the easiest way to do quick arc markings.
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Apr 20, 2017 17:07
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Wow, I feel like a grumpy old dude right now. I've only used a proxy base or two when one of my idiot Titans, or maybe a Nomad just won't physically fit in the space allowed. If someone started pulling out a whole unit of proxy bases I'd want to smack them. Using a proxy base for something that's not even activating is the dumbest poo poo ever and that player can go gently caress himself. My opinion doesn't matter though since I don't intend to play in or watch any tournaments. I just want to complain on the internet
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Apr 20, 2017 18:49
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As long as they aren't leaving a bunch of proxy bases around on your turn what difference does it make. Sometimes you want to see where things will fit in advance to plan out your turn. Whatever.
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Apr 20, 2017 18:51
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 01:43 |
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GoodBee posted:Using a proxy base for something that's not even activating is the dumbest poo poo ever and that player can go gently caress himself Why?
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Apr 20, 2017 18:59
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