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Ok I'm about 8 hours into this game, I'm enjoying it but I have some questions. I don't give a hoot about spoilers but ill spoil my text so it doesn't impact anyone else. 1. Should my pod program be getting constantly off cooldown? I've only got the laser and just found a gravity one but i kinda keep forgetting its one of my skills maybe because I'm cautious about using it. Do other pods have longer recharge times? 2. Do i need to make a choice about which route i go down? I keep hearing people speaking about route b, c, d etc. When does that kick in? For reference i just got told to go to a warehouse by the friendly forest robots. 3. I accidentally didn't save a little robot kid that its mother wanted me to find. He died right outside the gate his mom was behind. What did i miss out on. Other than that I'm enjoying this game enough to catch me humming songs at work. 
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Apr 20, 2017 12:31
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Macarius Wrench posted:Ok I'm about 8 hours into this game, I'm enjoying it but I have some questions. I don't give a hoot about spoilers but ill spoil my text so it doesn't impact anyone else. 1. Cooldown is basically what keeps you from spamming programs (which is basically this game's equivalent of the original's magic). 2. No, the routes are more segments than diverging paths. 3. Sidequest, mostly money and a deadly heal chip.
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Apr 20, 2017 13:09
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Fedule posted:Some people itt need to play The Swapper if they love philosophical ruminations on identity so much. Swapper was pretty good, so was The Fall if you like that overall style of lonely sci fi puzzle platformer with philosophical themes Mazerunner posted:Like, if you make the clone, and then both instances persist- you wouldn't call them literally the same entity, would you? (ugh, general you, not paracelsus specifically). They are two distinct physical entities, occupying different points in space. Doesn't really matter that they had the same personality and memories up to a certain point. Regardless of original/copy, you can distinguish between them, just by the fact that there are two. Yes, they would be distinct and no, you wouldn't call them "the same", unless you were doing some kind of hosed up organ donor farm a la The Island. That's kind of my point, though-- it doesn't matter who "the original" is. If one dies right after the split occurs, then there's "just one" regardless of which one is the copy, but if they both continue to live then they'll have to compromise/deal with the fact that everything that was "theirs" suddenly has to be shared or split with "someone else". But that's not an existential question, it's a logistical one. If you have identical twins that split from one embryo in the womb, nobody sits down with their doctor to try and figure out which one was the "original fetus". This would be an extension of the same non-issue, to my mind.
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Apr 20, 2017 13:17
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Also, before I pass out and forget-- the talk about people paying more for unique/original stuff is all psychology, not any inherent actual "better original-ness". If you read Terry Pratchett, the Scone of Stone from Thud! comes immediately to mind, but the upshot is if you have a forgery that's close enough to the original that nobody can tell it's not the original, does it matter that it's not the original? And does the answer to that question change if you know for a fact the original doesn't exist anymore?
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Apr 20, 2017 13:30
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:Also, before I pass out and forget-- the talk about people paying more for unique/original stuff is all psychology, not any inherent actual "better original-ness". If you read Terry Pratchett, the Scone of Stone from Thud! comes immediately to mind, but the upshot is if you have a forgery that's close enough to the original that nobody can tell it's not the original, does it matter that it's not the original? And does the answer to that question change if you know for a fact the original doesn't exist anymore? Strictly speaking the Scone was first introduced, along with the whole Ship of Theseus thing, in The Fifth Elephant.
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Apr 20, 2017 14:09
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:
To me the difference is that an embryo hasn't actually made any decisions or interacted with the outside world before the split. For instance, what if someone committed a murder and then was immediately copied? Do you punish both the original and the copy? What if someone committed a murder, copied themselves, and set it up in a way that the original was instantly destroyed in order to avoid punishment. Do you still consider the copy guilty of the crime, even though they just came into existence? The copy remembers committing the murder and making the decision to copy themselves, but is that the same thing as actually being the one to commit the crime and make that decision? Should the copy feel any guilt or remorse for the things they remember doing; or should they just disregard everything as being the work of someone else and start fresh? Does that extend to any relationships they remember having?
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Apr 20, 2017 14:39
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GentlemanGiant posted:To me the difference is that an embryo hasn't actually made any decisions or interacted with the outside world before the split. For instance, what if someone committed a murder and then was immediately copied? Do you punish both the original and the copy? They are as we perceive them. One is always defined as much as by what others see as by what one sees themselves.
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Apr 20, 2017 15:01
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Got a friend to share his steam library with me so I can test the PC version on my system. Even with all mods and optimisations, it still runs like garbage. Bad feelings.
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Apr 20, 2017 15:05
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What if the copy doesn't exist until after you die? Instead of being clone and then dying while your clone lives on, what if you die, and then someone makes a copy of you? What if they even have memories backed up until the point of death, so there is no divergence in continuity of memory?
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Apr 20, 2017 15:07
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Ultimately, I think a lot of it hinges on both what you consider to be the essential essence of who you are & your role in this hypothetical scenario. If you are an observer at a remove from the process, then you can grasp that there is a difference, if only in how long both people have been physically present, but it's not a meaningful one. They'll both look the same, think the same, and possess the same memories. On the other hand if you're the one being copied, it could matter a great deal, especially if you're going to be killed the instant the duplication takes place. Put yourself in his/her shoes: someone who looks like you, thinks like you, and has the same memories of their loved ones will get to go home from the mad science lab, go back to their job the next day, and hug their significant others when they get off from work. This is the essence of the existential horror: you are going to vanish, and nobody will even notice your passing. For the purposes of Automata's story, any qualms the androids might have about this is mitigated by their powerful sense of duty. Whether your clone is "the same" as you or not is beside the point--it will continue to serve the greater purpose of reclaiming the Earth for humanity. 9S uncovering the truth (again) renders him vulnerable to wholesale existential crisis when YorHa & 2B disappear on the same day. (Incidentally, this whole argument comes up a lot in--wouldn't you know it?--Gestalt psychology.
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Apr 20, 2017 15:09
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What I wonder about a lot is why the black boxes are even equipped on the androids' actual bodies when Pascal implies that a machine's core can be hidden away from the body for safekeeping unless I'm reading his dialogue wrong.
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Apr 20, 2017 16:35
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Nina posted:What I wonder about a lot is why the black boxes are even equipped on the androids' actual bodies when Pascal implies that a machine's core can be hidden away from the body for safekeeping unless I'm reading his dialogue wrong.
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Apr 20, 2017 16:39
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Akuma posted:Well they can use them tactically as we see in the game, so there's that... Yeah, I feel like that's probably a pretty big factor. edit: v YEAH! Snak fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Apr 20, 2017 |
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Apr 20, 2017 16:43
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I love the discussions this game encourages. In my opinion, there is no fundamental difference between a copy and an original. The only reason we even care is that we tend to put more meaning into the Original of something than the Copy. It's not even a rational feeling, it's just something we're pre-disposed to do. That's all well and good when doing something personal and harmless like stamp collecting, but when we start talking about multiple consciousnesses things get slightly more complicated. A copy with all the same memories has just as right to feel like an 'original'. Even if they were born recently, they still have all the same memories and experiences and aren't any lesser of a person.
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Apr 20, 2017 16:54
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Akuma posted:Well they can use them tactically as we see in the game, so there's that... Yeah who am I kidding. This is Taroverse human design sensibilities so the explosivity of staff is like #1 on the list of priorities
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Apr 20, 2017 17:02
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I have another important question. Everyone I've heard talking about this game pronounces it as "ahTAH-mahTAH" but I pronounce it "ah-toh MAH-tah" (with a little bit of an Italian flair). Which is more correct?
Orb Crabmelt fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Apr 20, 2017 |
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Apr 20, 2017 17:13
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GANDHITRON posted:I have another important question. Everyone I've heard talking about this game pronounces it as "attah-mattah" but I pronounce it "ah-toh MAH-tah" (with a little bit of an Italian flair). Which is more correct?
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Apr 20, 2017 17:15
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GANDHITRON posted:I have another important question. Everyone I've heard talking about this game pronounces it as "attah-mattah" but I pronounce it "ah-toh MAH-tah" (with a little bit of an Italian flair). Which is more correct? I switch between pronunciations of the title constantly with even realizing it. I think Yoko Taro pronounced it Ah-Tah-Mah-Tah in a video but really everyone says it in their own way.
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Apr 20, 2017 17:15
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GANDHITRON posted:I have another important question. Everyone I've heard talking about this game pronounces it as "attah-mattah" but I pronounce it "ah-toh MAH-tah" (with a little bit of an Italian flair). Which is more correct? At least the Japanese pronounciation is like "ohto-mahtah"
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Apr 20, 2017 17:16
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GANDHITRON posted:I have another important question. Everyone I've heard talking about this game pronounces it as "attah-mattah" but I pronounce it "ah-toh MAH-tah" (with a little bit of an Italian flair). Which is more correct? As long as you say Automata and not a different word, either as it depends entirely on your dialect.
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Apr 20, 2017 17:21
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It's pronounced like automaton. A-tom-a-ta.
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Apr 20, 2017 17:23
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WHo cares about Automata, how do you even pronounce Nier correctly, i mean i'm going for something similar to "Ny-ar"
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Apr 20, 2017 17:25
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HenryEx posted:WHo cares about Automata, how do you even pronounce Nier correctly, i mean i'm going for something similar to "Ny-ar"
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Apr 20, 2017 17:28
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I've always heard it pronounced the same as "near".
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Apr 20, 2017 17:28
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Zinkraptor posted:It's pronounced like automaton. A-tom-a-ta. It actually does start with an "oh" like phonetic rather than "ay" as far as I know since it comes from Greek
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Apr 20, 2017 17:28
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Nina posted:It actually does start with an "oh" like phonetic rather than "ay" as far as I know since it comes from Greek This is english, we pronounce things however we drat well please 
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Apr 20, 2017 17:32
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Alternatively here's a handy pronunciation guide https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhDL3Q86ofY
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Apr 20, 2017 17:33
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Fedule posted:Some people itt need to play The Swapper if they love philosophical ruminations on identity so much. Fedule posted:people need to play The Swapper GANDHITRON posted:I have another important question. Everyone I've heard talking about this game pronounces it as "attah-mattah" but I pronounce it "ah-toh MAH-tah" (with a little bit of an Italian flair). Which is more correct? ninja edit: thanks gis for the most ins anely sexy nier:a-related pics    RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Apr 20, 2017 |
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Apr 20, 2017 17:35
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Nina posted:It actually does start with an "oh" like phonetic rather than "ay" as far as I know since it comes from Greek Whoops, yeah, you're right. The distribution of syllables should be about right, though. HenryEx posted:WHo cares about Automata, how do you even pronounce Nier correctly, i mean i'm going for something similar to "Ny-ar" I have wondered this same thing for many a year. Another thing I wondered - the main character in Nier is referred to as Nier, right? So, is the game named after a character who is never actually named in game? I remember the character naming screen starting blank rather than with a default name. Or is calling the character "Nier" something that came after the game came out, when people weren't sure what to call him?
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Apr 20, 2017 17:53
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Nioh Andromeda
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Apr 20, 2017 17:56
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HenryEx posted:Alternatively here's a handy pronunciation guide Thank god someone has a concise answer. I think. ... Maybe not. ("あ と ま た"?)
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Apr 20, 2017 18:00
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Poniard posted:Nioh Andromeda Some video previews of Nioh pronounced it "Nigh-Oh" 
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Apr 20, 2017 18:01
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I'd say the biggest let-down in this otherwise solid game was the rampant re-use of the So-Shi boss design. You fight, like, 5 different variants of it? The last machine boss you fight in the game is just two of them stuck together, even. I wanted to see more bosses like Beauvoir. By the way, I never got around to toggling on Hard Mode in my playthrough. If I wanted to go back and do a fresh save Hard Mode run, are there any guides for how to go about that floating around, or at least just some tips people can provide?
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Apr 20, 2017 18:06
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I did everything on hard, just buy 99 healing wares and invest in hp chips. I also did every sub-quest to the point that main quest fights became trivially easy (sadly). Fish for money early on.
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Apr 20, 2017 18:08
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Dabir posted:Strictly speaking the Scone was first introduced, along with the whole Ship of Theseus thing, in The Fifth Elephant. My shameful memory betrays me, that was the Fifth Elephant, wasn't it. Thud was Koom Valley, time to go re-read some books, etc etc.  GentlemanGiant posted:To me the difference is that an embryo hasn't actually made any decisions or interacted with the outside world before the split. For instance, what if someone committed a murder and then was immediately copied? Do you punish both the original and the copy? While a valid question, that segues into a side question of "do you think crime/punishment is for the sake of rehabilitation/protecting society, or for the sake of you being able to punish someone so that you feel better?" If the former, then any copies of someone who's committed a crime but hasn't been rehabilitated is just as much a danger to society/as likely to re-offend as the original, and if it's the latter, then it literally doesn't matter-- hell, if it's the latter, people pissed off at bad news have shot the messenger despite said messenger not being personally responsible for the bad news for years, so adding cloned copies into the mix doesn't really change much. e: The thing is that this topic of conversation is interesting, to me, because there are so many questions that could possibly spin off it where we have to sit and examine why we do things the way we do instead of just trying to shoehorn the concept of "wholly-formed copies of people springing out of the ether" into our existing society without changing society at all. There's not a whole lot of media that actually touches on it-- everyone gets hung up on a pretty egotistical "who's the original", "which one has more meat/less silicon", "which version is better" and best case scenario, leaves all of the interesting "what happens to society once this is accepted as a thing" questions unstated post-ending. Ursine Catastrophe fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Apr 20, 2017 |
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Apr 20, 2017 18:22
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I am glad that good game Nier Onomatopoeia is generating a lot of interesting discussion.
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Apr 20, 2017 18:54
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Augus posted:I'd say the biggest let-down in this otherwise solid game was the rampant re-use of the So-Shi boss design. You fight, like, 5 different variants of it? The last machine boss you fight in the game is just two of them stuck together, even. I wanted to see more bosses like Beauvoir. At least every iteration of So-shi has a completely different moveset.
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Apr 20, 2017 18:56
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Paracelsus posted:This depends on whose perspective we're talking about. To someone other than myself, a copy of me that continues after I die might well be just as good (especially if no tells them it's a copy). But from my perspective I'm dead and my consciousness has either ceased to exist or I've passed on to whatever awaits. Books and movies don't have their own thoughts and feelings, so the analogy ignores the primary issue. But your perspective is an illusion. It's not real. You experience an approximation of the real world with the vast majority of it filled in by your brain to save time and processing power. Sensory inputs (sight, sound, etc) are processed at different speeds and delays. Sight's complex but it you throw a lot of processing power at it so you don't get hit in the face by that football. Sometimes so much that you might perceive a slowdown of time. Touch/Heat inputs are simple but are delayed travelling to the brain from say your big toe. There are also a number of biological clocks in your body like circadian rhythm that also come in at different rates. Finally, inputs must at times be filtered (for example, while the eyes are moving from one fixed point to another). A lot of highly distributed voodoo takes place in the lower brain so these inputs can be tied together and processed in consistent chunks. Your consciousness's "journey" is an illusion, the same way movement on a movie theater screen is an illusion created by your brain interpolating single images. Well, a lot of other hosed up stuff also happens with sight, but you get the idea. Your brain is running a computer program. There is no "you" in there, at least nothing that our vast powers to peer into the fabric of the universe can detect, and there's no evidence to suggest there might be. You are a series of snapshots. You are beautiful and amazing and a child of the universe, but you are also film stock. And to others, you are an approximation formed in their brain from their interactions with you. This would be no more modified if your body was replaced by a recent backup than it would be if they simply didn't happen to talk to you for a week. It's such a small difference that it's like crying yourself to sleep each night because the person you go to sleep next to won't be exactly the same person tomorrow as they were today. As Norman Maclean said in that Brad Pitt movie, "It is those we live with and love and should know who elude us. But we can still love them - we can love completely without complete understanding." As a writer he could know and understand the characters he created but he realized even the people we are closest to are fundamentally ineffable. We build from what we know of them a construct of poor fidelity that we imbue with meaning. We see through a glass, darkly, and the wonderful thing is we still manage to love. I can't imagine knowing there is even a to-the-millisecond backup makes it any easier to see someone we love die. It would be heartrending. But the notion that we can't love the backup as the same person is ridiculous. The difference between original and backup pales in comparison to the difference between who someone is and who we think they are. You might have a problem with this because a few thousand years ago people who didn't want to die forever invented the concept of a "soul", but love doesn't. Love would never devote itself to pedantically splitting hairs to determine if that backup is worthy. Love is stronger than that. Love is better than that.
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Apr 20, 2017 18:59
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I will say that all this discussion is going much better than it did in the SOMA thread, which quickly dissolved back into people wishing the protagonist of that game wasn't such a goddamn idiot whenever it came up. Thank goodness!
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Apr 20, 2017 19:04
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Araganzar posted:But your perspective is an illusion. It's not real. You experience an approximation of the real world with the vast majority of it filled in by your brain to save time and processing power.
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Apr 20, 2017 19:06
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