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Ensign Expendable posted:Today's drunkenness wave: four American correspondents and two officers drove to a banquet in the Soviet zone on May 6th, 1945, got shitfaced, drove to Berlin, kept partying at a regiment whose number they did not even remember, then got lost on their way out of Berlin and eventually were detained by Soviet military police. Starring George Clooney
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Apr 21, 2017 05:15
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Ithle01 posted:Samurai used shields just like everyone else, but for them a shield was a big piece of wood you stuck in the ground. Temples frequently complained about looting because their gates made ideal war material and were usually the first thing to go once an army rolled into a region. HEY GAIL posted:meanwhile in the west, soldiers break the windows of houses to get at the lead frames I don't know how accurate anything in Seven Samurai is, but it's the first exposure I had to the idea that anytime the feudal warrior class goes out to do something, they're pillaging everything they can on the way and constantly in some kind of low level conflict with the peasants they're getting it from. There's a scene where the villagers bring them a bunch of slightly used samurai gear, and the samurai are all "we know how you assholes got this" and Mifune says something to the effect of, please keep in mind that these people are constantly being hosed by you, this can't exactly come as a shock
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Apr 21, 2017 05:21
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swamp waste posted:I don't know how accurate anything in Seven Samurai is, but it's the first exposure I had to the idea that anytime the feudal warrior class goes out to do something, they're pillaging everything they can on the way and constantly in some kind of low level conflict with the peasants they're getting it from. There's a scene where the villagers bring them a bunch of slightly used samurai gear, and the samurai are all "we know how you assholes got this" and Mifune says something to the effect of, please keep in mind that these people are constantly being hosed by you, this can't exactly come as a shock Probably within recognizable distance since there was a caste thing at play.
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Apr 21, 2017 05:24
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Phi230 posted:My personal favorite is the disgraced Prussian communist Union General who essentially led a Prussian unit into battle (9th Ohio "Die Neuner" and later the "First German" 32nd Indiana) I'm loosely related to a buddy of his (Hecker) and have a tobacco case of his with a bullet hole.
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Apr 21, 2017 05:39
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HEY GAIL posted:come closer and i'll tell you a secret Everyone I've ever met in the military says improvising is the primary military skill and that contrary to perceptions armies do not attract highly organised and orderly people
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Apr 21, 2017 05:41
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the JJ posted:I'm loosely related to a buddy of his (Hecker) and have a tobacco case of his with a bullet hole. Picture isn't loading, may want to fix the link
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Apr 21, 2017 05:48
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The effort of finding an image hosting site seemed like a lot to me but I did some googling and... it's there. Though, going by that citation it should be in a museum. Ummm... Maybe Granny had some lightfingers?  White stuff inside is some paper of his? Super crumbly and fragile, I don't want to gently caress with it until I can actually get a real archive to not gently caress it up? the JJ fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Apr 21, 2017 |
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Apr 21, 2017 06:33
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the JJ posted:The effort of finding an image hosting site seemed like a lot to me but I did some googling and... Hahaha that owns
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Apr 21, 2017 06:39
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Schenck v. U.S. posted:A numerical majority of officers in both the Army and the Navy remained loyal to the Union (I want to say 66-33 or thereabouts), but you also have to consider how important that is if the military establishment is going to expand by around two orders of magnitude. Look at Grant. Before the ACW he had attained the rank of captain, and distinguished himself in that role, but he'd also resigned the service due to emotional problems and alcohol dependency. Captain is not that exalted a position. But when the poo poo hit the fan, he quickly and surely climbed the ranks to generalissimus. Regardless of how many antebellum officers went to the South or stayed with the Union, on either side most officer were promoted up in the exigencies of war. The upper echelons of either side were predominantly drawn from the antebellum West Point milieu, but operationally junior officers are just as important and most of them came out of nowhere. If you're into personalities, you can also cite Forrest, a rando and utter shithead who wound up emerging as one of the best cavalry officers in the war. ulmont posted:Not gonna go look for anything more authoritative than wikipedia, but: That's some good stuff fellows, thanks. I'm reasonably familiar with the course of the war, but expected the number of officers who defected to the south to be much higher, specifically because of the aristocratic planter class that was very into military service as a distinguished career. aphid_licker posted:The idea of being a private at the bottom of a chain of command from the 2nd Lt up to the fuckin four star general that is entirely winging it / busy learning by doing is kinda terrifying. Well look at Bedford Forrest, who started the war as a goddamned private, and makes it all the way to Lieutenant General by the end of the war. Granted he skipped the bulk of the chain because he could afford to equip his own regiment and only made three star at the extreme end of the war, but that's still not too bad of a record. Forrest himself on the other hand, ugh... Also I do not understand US general officer ranks at all. Major is a higher rank than Lieutenant, but for some reason Lieutenant General is a higher rank than Major General?
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Apr 21, 2017 07:03
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:That's some good stuff fellows, thanks. I'm reasonably familiar with the course of the war, but expected the number of officers who defected to the south to be much higher, specifically because of the aristocratic planter class that was very into military service as a distinguished career. Major Generals used to be Sergeant Major Generals, and Lieutenant means "place holder". So the lt holds his master's place when he isn't around, which means the lt is the second in command. Hogge Wild fucked around with this message at 07:27 on Apr 21, 2017 |
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Apr 21, 2017 07:24
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Phi230 posted:My personal favorite is the disgraced Prussian communist Union General who essentially led a Prussian unit into battle (9th Ohio "Die Neuner" and later the "First German" 32nd Indiana) He was also involved in an attempt to assassinate Karl Marx for being too moderate IIRC.
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Apr 21, 2017 07:49
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Were there any instances of a modern army forcing across a major river against an entrenched and prepared enemy? Obviously during WWII many major rivers were crossed but seems to be mostly done during rapid advances when the enemy wasn't able to entrench properly? There was the crossing of the Meuse in 1940 that particularly comes to mind and while there were French there, hardly in sufficient numbers or prepared?
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Apr 21, 2017 12:17
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BattleMoose posted:Were there any instances of a modern army forcing across a major river against an entrenched and prepared enemy? Obviously during WWII many major rivers were crossed but seems to be mostly done during rapid advances when the enemy wasn't able to entrench properly? There was the crossing of the Meuse in 1940 that particularly comes to mind and while there were French there, hardly in sufficient numbers or prepared? If you'll accepted a failed attempt at trying, there's the Battle of the Tenaru from Guadalcanal. Americans were entrenched on the eastern shore of the Tenaru River, the Japanese tried to cross it. Didn't go well for the Japanese.
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Apr 21, 2017 12:29
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Surely that must have happened at some point when the allies were trying to cross the Rhine.
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Apr 21, 2017 12:43
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HEY GAIL posted:come closer and i'll tell you a secret If my boss fucks up his job boring things happen in excel sheets and there is a total lack of me exploding messily.
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Apr 21, 2017 12:56
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BattleMoose posted:Were there any instances of a modern army forcing across a major river against an entrenched and prepared enemy? Obviously during WWII many major rivers were crossed but seems to be mostly done during rapid advances when the enemy wasn't able to entrench properly? There was the crossing of the Meuse in 1940 that particularly comes to mind and while there were French there, hardly in sufficient numbers or prepared? So aside from the Rhine, it happened multiple times on the Eastern Front, most notably at the Seelow Heights. Moving further on you have Korea, and from then on your criteria of 'modern army' fighting against an 'entrenched and prepared enemy' get really hard to meet.
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Apr 21, 2017 13:14
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The Chinese communists forced a crossing of the Yangtze River to finish off the Nationalists in the south, who notionally were secure behind fortifications and a river navy and airpower.
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Apr 21, 2017 13:29
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So in case anyone feels like being a mercenary, the CMANO game where goons play a mercenary air force has gotten a ground forces component with Phoenix Command, the grognardiest of grognard tabletop games. True to all the discussion about the insanity of drunken mercenaries and officers, a unanimous vote led to the creation of a Thunderdome for everyone to fight over who gets to be the leader. The first fight has already led to a broken shin. Injuries carry over into the actual mission if they haven't healed in time.
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Apr 21, 2017 13:36
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The Lone Badger posted:Yes, but with worse hygiene. I dunno man, I've been to GWAR shows and I get the feeling WW1 didn't have you completely covered in blood and gore and for the entire duration. Disinterested posted:Everyone I've ever met in the military says improvising is the primary military skill and that contrary to perceptions armies do not attract highly organised and orderly people I don't have the conception that armies attract highly organised peopple  I think watching Band of Brothers was what got me hooked on milhist, and frankly, we quickly get the impression that most of their leaders are complete fucktards.
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Apr 21, 2017 13:52
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Carcer posted:Surely that must have happened at some point when the allies were trying to cross the Rhine. I believe they either brought out surviving DD tanks or made some new ones for at least one crossing. Turns out the system works fine on a river!
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Apr 21, 2017 13:56
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Ferrosol posted:I'm not an expert on Japan far from it but I assume it has something to do with the generally poor quality of Japanese iron ore. When you've only got so much decent iron to go around a shield is a secondary priority. Again guessing that since the samurai started off as mounted archers and remained so for a big chunk of their history shields don't do you much good in a mounted archery duel. Also there's the interesting theory I read somewhere that Japanese sword styles evolved from spear fighting so a two-handed sword was considered to be a must have for cultural and traditional reasons. Or it could be a combination of all of the above. Still i'd appreciate it if a goon who knows what they're talking about can give you something more than my idle speculation. Here is a video by a giant nerd on the topic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2GcZWl1XGA
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Apr 21, 2017 14:17
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PittTheElder posted:Well look at Bedford Forrest, who started the war as a goddamned private, and makes it all the way to Lieutenant General by the end of the war. Granted he skipped the bulk of the chain because he could afford to equip his own regiment and only made three star at the extreme end of the war, but that's still not too bad of a record. Forrest himself on the other hand, ugh... Shelby Foote says in the Ken Burns doc that there were only two legit geniuses in the ACW, Lincoln and Forrest. Setting aside that he INVENTED THE GODDAMN KKK what did Forrest do to earn that perception?
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Apr 21, 2017 14:44
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aphid_licker posted:If my boss fucks up his job boring things happen in excel sheets and there is a total lack of me exploding messily. zoux posted:Shelby Foote says in the Ken Burns doc that there were only two legit geniuses in the ACW, Lincoln and Forrest. Setting aside that he INVENTED THE GODDAMN KKK what did Forrest do to earn that perception?
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Apr 21, 2017 14:51
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Alchenar posted:So aside from the Rhine, it happened multiple times on the Eastern Front, most notably at the Seelow Heights. Can't remember the name now but there was also a bad one in Italy. Allies ended up taking the far shore but the losses were ugly enough to wreck careers.
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Apr 21, 2017 15:05
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zoux posted:Shelby Foote says in the Ken Burns doc that there were only two legit geniuses in the ACW, Lincoln and Forrest. Setting aside that he INVENTED THE GODDAMN KKK what did Forrest do to earn that perception? Forrest was....a really complex character. Pre-war he was about as ugly southerner as it got; his wartime career was of course spectacular but tinted by the Fort Pillow thing that he may or may not be responsible for. As for the KKK, as far as I've been able to tell, it started as a big group of guys who wanted to resist Reconstruction, they needed a figurehead/leader/icon, they found Forrest, he agreed. The early Klan was not anything like what it would become...it was more of an old boys club that tried to do things through legitimate political channels. Things broke bad pretty quickly what with the lynchings and everything and Forrest was horrified, so he promptly left the group, ratted them out to the republican government, and spent much of the rest of his life trying to undermine them. He eventually became about as progressive as an antebellum southern white aristocrat could be with regard to race, which caused the good old boys to turn on him big time (in the same way they did with Longstreet) and so he was at odds with much of the southern elites for the last years of his life. His friendship with Sherman didn't help things, of course. I don't want to come off as a Forrest apologist as he certainly did bad things but I do like the fact he changed his viewpoints as radically as he did, few of his peers can say the same. bewbies fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Apr 21, 2017 |
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Apr 21, 2017 15:17
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HEY GAIL posted:the best at cav for the past three hundred years--possibly ever, i'm not sure what a fight between him and pappenheim would have looked like I guess I don't know what "best at cav" means. bewbies posted:Forrest was....a really complex character. Pre-war he was about as ugly southerner as it got; his wartime career was of course spectacular but tinted by the Fort Pillow thing that he may or may not be responsible for. As for the KKK, as far as I've been able to tell, it started as a big group of guys who wanted to resist Reconstruction, they needed a figurehead/leader/icon, they found Forrest, he agreed. The early Klan was not anything like what it would become...it was more of an old boys club that tried to do things through legitimate political channels. Things broke bad pretty quickly what with the lynchings and everything and Forrest was horrified, so he promptly left the group, ratted them out to the republican government, and spent much of the rest of his life trying to undermine them. He eventually became about as progressive as an antebellum southern white aristocrat could be with regard to race, which caused the good old boys to turn on him big time (in the same way they did with Longstreet) and so he was at odds with much of the southern elites for the last years of his life. His friendship with Sherman didn't help things, of course. So do Lost Causers hate him like they hate Longstreet?
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Apr 21, 2017 15:35
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Think of it this way: Everybody knows about Sherman's March to the Sea, but one of Sherman's biggest motivations for the March was that it was impossible to protect his supply lines from Forrest's cavalry. They wrecked baggage trains, collapsed railroad tunnels, and in general made it impossible for Sherman's army to advance at much more than a snail's pace while remaining in supply. They were incredibly effective and impossible to root out, to the point that it was literally easier for Sherman to cut off his entire logistic train and march across the state so he could be resupplied by the Navy, as opposed to having to continually deal with Forrest's bullshit.
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Apr 21, 2017 15:41
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zoux posted:So do Lost Causers hate him like they hate Longstreet? He kind of got left out of the initial Lost Cause catfight (in example he was only mentioned in passing in "Birth of a Nation") but he eventually became kind of a neo-confederate icon in no small part due to Shelby Foote's constant praise.
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Apr 21, 2017 16:03
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the role of cav in 1860 is a) to identify where your enemy is, how big he is, and where he is going b) prevent your enemy from doing the same to your primary maneuver elements c) gently caress up their baggage train and supplies d) don't get pinned down by dirty legs and killed it's all about mobility and concentration and dispersal of force as the situation warrants. Forrest was really good at that poo poo.
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Apr 21, 2017 16:04
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i still want to see him fight pappenheim, is that too much to ask edit: i have seen one or two lost causers on the internet with photos of him, etc, but by then you know they're a real virulent fucker, since most of them gloss over the whole treating other human beings like things part or have euphemisms or something
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Apr 21, 2017 16:07
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HEY GAIL posted:i still want to see him fight pappenheim, is that too much to ask im down but are they using 30YW weapons or ACW arme blanche isn't too awfully different in function but the pistols and carbines are a little more exciting later on
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Apr 21, 2017 16:08
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:im down but are they using 30YW weapons or ACW  i think you meant "good" or "functional"
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Apr 21, 2017 16:12
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:the role of cav in 1860 is a) to identify where your enemy is, how big he is, and where he is going b) prevent your enemy from doing the same to your primary maneuver elements c) gently caress up their baggage train and supplies d) don't get pinned down by dirty legs and killed To expand on this a bit: normally this kind of stuff doesn't have significant strategic or political implications. In Bedford Forrest's case though, they did: it was clear as early as May of 1864 that the upcoming election would hinge on some sort of significant northern victory, and that Atlanta was really the only possibility for said victory. The Army of Tennessee was seriously outmatched in that theater and should have been basically steamrolled, but Bedford Forrest was so successful in his raids that the advance of the three union armies was slowed to a crawl. They only just managed to take the city in time, thanks largely to Johnston being replaced by Hood who did a lot of Sherman's work for him.
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Apr 21, 2017 16:15
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zoux posted:I guess I don't know what "best at cav" means. It means "Oliver Cromwell" ecw best cw
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Apr 21, 2017 16:19
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HEY GAIL posted:on the contrary, there are few things more exciting than a pistol the length of an AR that may or may not explode every time you pull the trigger tru
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Apr 21, 2017 16:24
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Glancing at his bio on wikipedia, he was just some poor hick who struck it rich (through, you know SLAVERY, keep in mind) and he turned out to be the finest Calvary officer of his generation. Sharp contrast to JEB Stuart. How rankled were the aristocratic generals by this? Or were they like, he may be an upjumped wannabe but by God he gets results! Rather than caveat every post, just assume any further questions or statements about the skill or admirability of the military acumen of Confederate officers is tempered by the sober realization that they were fighting for, if not direct participants in, one of the most horrible systems of oppression and dehumanization in American, if not world, history, and gently caress them for that. Speaking of genius generals, today is San Jacinto Day in Texas, where we honor Sam Houston for his amazing tactic of "get them while they're napping". Famous painting of the battle by Texaboo Irishman Henry McArdle, who wasn't there as he was born the same year. On the right, there's a figure in an orange serape (some say dress) fleeing the battle on a white horse. It's intended to be Santa Anna, disguised as a woman. 
zoux fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Apr 21, 2017 |
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Apr 21, 2017 16:30
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zoux posted:
In all fairness "shot them while they're sleeping" is kind of the ultimate military tactic. Fair fights are for suckers.
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Apr 21, 2017 16:44
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Scheduled daily naps are a bit of a tactical liability.
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Apr 21, 2017 16:46
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Part 1: Arriving in South Africaquote:
SeanBeansShako fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 21, 2017 16:47
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Forrest was born poor of course but by the start of the war he was one of the wealthiest and most prominent men in Tennessee. He might've come off as sort of nouveau riche to the litany of old timey Virginia aristocrats that dominated the Cavalry Corps but he certainly wouldn't have been out of place there.
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Apr 21, 2017 16:50
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