|
The game is a longform endorsement of anarchism
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 06:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 13:33 |
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:The game is a longform endorsement of anarchism Considering it ends with the protagonists rejecting their super powers and resolving to work within society, um... Like, their whole MO before then is to reveal people and have society punish them. Goro is probably the most anarchist in the cast and the game thoroughly condemns him.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 07:01
|
|
|
I do like that it seems to be ending with the theme that social reform can only be achieved through collective public action where even people without superpowers can do good, I guess I appreciate where they went with this
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 07:03
|
|
|
I do like the message that while it can be difficult society can be improved and reformed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 07:05
|
|
|
Zore posted:Considering it ends with the protagonists rejecting their super powers and resolving to work within society, um... Well I also think the ending pulls a total 180 on the main themes of the game so
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 07:06
|
|
|
Zore posted:Considering it ends with the protagonists rejecting their super powers and resolving to work within society, um... I mean it's a game about rebellion and following your own justice even if society as a whole disagrees with you. So it's not like a super bad read. Edit: cheetah7071 posted:Well I also think the ending pulls a total 180 on the main themes of the game so Sometimes you rebel so hard you have to sacrifice yourself to the prison system so you can convict an rear end in a top hat and you just have trust your friends will get you out.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 07:12
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:Well I also think the ending pulls a total 180 on the main themes of the game so I mean, I still don't get where you get anarchism from though? Fundamentally they're still working within the confines of the State as the ultimate authority even before the ending. 'Changing people's hearts' has the end goal of society punishing the perpetrators, not the Phantom Thieves. If anything the game is radically anti-anarchist, arguing that the only thing stopping the state from working are individuals who can be reformed or removed using the mechanisms in place. SyntheticPolygon posted:I mean it's a game about rebellion and following your own justice even if society as a whole disagrees with you. So it's not like a super bad read. But they all fundamentally believe in the State. Their own justice exclusively targets people who use their power to violate laws that the State enforces. The idea being; much like people can become distorted, society can also become distorted. But the solution is to 'change its heart', or work to fix the distortion, not smash the state. I feel like this is the whole fundamental difference between the protagonists and the antagonists; that the antagonists use the trappings of society and the state to break the rules and the Phantom Thieves break the rules to save society and the state. Zore fucked around with this message at 07:17 on Apr 22, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 07:14
|
|
|
Zore posted:But they all fundamentally believe in the State. Their own justice exclusively targets people who use their power to violate laws that the State enforces. I didn't mean to say they wanted to break society or anything, but they still don't really like society in it's current state though. They're Tricksters. They rebel and cause change.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 07:20
|
|
|
Zore posted:I mean, I still don't get where you get anarchism from though? I was partially exaggerating for comedic effect, but here's my logic: Every single person in the entire game who is in a position of authority and uses that authority is presented as ultimately lovely. Teachers, parents, politicians, police, gods. In the world of persona 5, there are no examples of a person exercising power over another through the rules of society that comes across in a good light--or at least none I can think of. The characters obviously never come to the conclusion that the dissolution of the state is the solution to this problem, but as the player, I can come to that conclusion--that the state cannot ever be the solution in this world, and is at best an overcomable problem. So in conclusion "the characters believe in the state" and "Persona 5 is an endorsement of anarchy" aren't contradictory.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 07:21
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:I was partially exaggerating for comedic effect, but here's my logic: Um, Sojiro is extraordinarily un-lovely I'll have you know.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 07:24
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:I was partially exaggerating for comedic effect, but here's my logic: Alright, I don't necessarily agree but I can definitely understand this argument. I do think Tora really undermines your point though. Zore fucked around with this message at 07:26 on Apr 22, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 07:23
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:Um, Sojiro is extraordinarily un-lovely I'll have you know. And he basically never exercises his parental authority
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 07:24
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:And he basically never exercises his parental authority He takes his kids out to sushi, the ultimate expression of parenthood.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 07:25
|
|
|
One of the Confidants is about bonding with and supporting a reformist legislative candidate
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 07:25
|
|
|
CharlieFoxtrot posted:One of the Confidants is about bonding with and supporting a reformist legislative candidate Man, Tora is so good.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 07:26
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:Man, Tora is so good. So-Good Tora
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 07:26
|
|
|
Zore posted:Considering it ends with the protagonists rejecting their super powers and resolving to work within society, um... also hell yeah goro antifa as hell, Wokechi
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 07:32
|
|
|
Also I like that after 100 hours with this game I still got lost in Shibuya Station trying to find Ryuji
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 07:44
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:Sometimes coincidences are allowed to happen and I like that better as an explanation than "the secret evil God who was behind everything had a secreter eviler God behind him". A secreter, eviler god is pretty much the core of Gnostic canon, though. There's like four layers. http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/origin.html posted:Now as for the ruler Yaltabaoth, he is ignorant of the force of Pistis: he did not see her face, rather he saw in the water the likeness that spoke with him. And because of that voice, he called himself 'Yaldabaoth'. Pistis Sophia true final boss confirmed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 07:49
|
|
|
goro got what he deserved!!!
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 07:54
|
|
|
Roobanguy posted:goro got what he deserved!!! A not-death?
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 07:56
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:A not-death? being forgotten completely by the plot!!!
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 07:56
|
|
|
Roobanguy posted:being forgotten completely by the plot!!! drat. Savage.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 07:59
|
|
|
Ha, I just noticed that Akechi is on the title screen with a mask.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 08:08
|
|
|
Seriously though, gently caress Akechi. Dude deserves to be in prison for the rest of his life.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 08:21
|
|
|
I did find it strange that the party, which included two members whose parents were murdered by Akechi, were so sympathetic towards him at the end. It did get me feeling bad for him for like ten seconds, as nonsensical as that might be
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 08:28
|
|
|
akechi is baeCharlieFoxtrot posted:Ha, I just noticed that Akechi is on the title screen with a mask.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 08:27
|
|
|
CharlieFoxtrot posted:I did find it strange that the party, which included two members whose parents were murdered by Akechi, were so sympathetic towards him at the end. It did get me feeling bad for him for like ten seconds, as nonsensical as that might be Because a bunch of the characters have elements of their backstory which are somewhat similar to him. So they kinda get his deal. Though he killed Haru's father she probably sorta understands wanting revenge against your dad for being a poo poo. Though he's the reason Futaba's mum's dead that's the reason why she probably understands him since his mum's death is one of the reasons he wants revenge on society. Makoto understands disillusionment with society and knew him before all this went down, and she even says she kinda had a rivalry with him. Ryuji gets wanting to be popular and be acknowledged by people and a system that used to loving hate you. And I guess Ann and Yusuke are just generally nice dudes and fairly empathetic.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 08:35
|
|
|
CharlieFoxtrot posted:I did find it strange that the party, which included two members whose parents were murdered by Akechi, were so sympathetic towards him at the end. It did get me feeling bad for him for like ten seconds, as nonsensical as that might be It happens though. Some people forgive the killers of their loved ones and just want them brought to justice outside of a personal grievance, just because it's the law.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 08:38
|
|
|
Also importantly, as Ryuji says "They understand him but they won't forgive him." Which is the whole conflict between them and Goro. None of the protagonists are murderers, they're all very empathetic people. They don't kill. Goro does.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 08:45
|
|
|
Zore posted:Also importantly, as Ryuji says "They understand him but they won't forgive him." Ryuji has good opinions and thoughts on things.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 08:56
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:Because a bunch of the characters have elements of their backstory which are somewhat similar to him. So they kinda get his deal. Yusuke's father figure was a dick, and Shido is an even bigger dick; so there's a connection there. Ann... ... just likes turtles I guess??
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 08:56
|
|
|
Night Blade posted:Yusuke's father figure was a dick, and Shido is an even bigger dick; so there's a connection there. Madarame stops being a thing that's mentioned so I forgot about that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 08:58
|
|
|
Zore posted:I mean, I still don't get where you get anarchism from though?
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 09:33
|
|
|
Relin posted:this is a good summation of the game's themes. coming to terms with being unable to change human nature and one's inability to exact radical change on society is suuuuuuuuper common in japanese works of fiction. i guess because of the collectivist nature. at the end a lot of works' message is "try to make the world a bit better" They did change human nature and exact radical change through sniping a being granting the distorted desires of society's sloth in the head with a large gun though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 09:35
|
|
|
Persona 5 is just Chaos Route Lite Akira Kurusu will be spared when Demi-Fiend destroys his reality
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 09:35
|
|
|
Metallia posted:Persona 5 is just Chaos Route Lite I don't think Demifiend would have much of a choice after Joker kicks his rear end with Satanael
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 09:43
|
|
|
What do I do with my life now I've finished this game??
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 10:25
|
|
|
Stalk the fourms and analyze it like it's a novel for the next two weeks, wondering why your friends wont talk to you.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 10:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 13:33 |
|
|
cpaf posted:What do I do with my life now I've finished this game?? *into a microphone with a yaldabaoth voice filter* PLAY ANIME
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2017 11:25
|
|
