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I am actually and seriously fielding a Carapace/Hotshot guard killteam for the local league starting tomorrow. I'm also spending a hundred points on the AOE Lasgun with a 9" range called frag grenades to start. Efficiency is most definitely not something I'm prioritizing. I just like knowing the math do I can make choices to make my fluffy things do better, and so I know when I need to not bullshit around against a more efficient lisr.
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Apr 15, 2017 15:35
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CHAD TURDURKEN (https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/The-Bright-Crusaders-2017)
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Apr 15, 2017 22:49
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These guys are just so happy to be playing a bloodsport. I kinda like the helmets.
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Apr 16, 2017 00:38
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Ugh. That mini is awful.
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Apr 16, 2017 14:17
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Apr 16, 2017 14:43
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I can't believe you missed the greatest face of all. McDreamy.
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Apr 16, 2017 16:01
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I think they look pretty fine. Miles better than SM Scout faces which are just...ugh.
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Apr 16, 2017 16:07
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JcDent posted:I think they look pretty fine. I love the idea of SM Scouts but those faces are so atrocious I've never pulled the trigger. Are there any good helmeted alternatives for them?
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Apr 16, 2017 16:18
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Supposedly people like using Tempestus Scions heads, though I think they're a little too iconic (as far as scions are iconoc). If I ever pull the trigga, I might go for third party balaklavas or sometihing.
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Apr 16, 2017 16:25
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Just paint their faces in dazzle camouflage so they don't register as faces any more.
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Apr 16, 2017 16:54
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I was supposed to play Shadow war for the first time this weekend but my friend bailed on me. We'll get together sometime during the week though, and this gives me time to assemble an ork boyz team so I don't have to play chaos or tyranids.
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Apr 16, 2017 20:25
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So I played my first ever games of Necromunda today! It was something of a mixed bag: I built a gang of Goliaths a couple years ago out of enthusiasm, with no knowledge of the game rules, and a friend mentioned the game and invited me round just the other day. So I didn't actually know any of the rules or think about the tactics/strategy involved going in. Basically, I played 2 games, first against Van Saar and then against Delaques, and I got completely minced both times. Things I learned: - for close combat to be worth it, you need to get there. I can now think of a lot of times where I could have used the 'Hiding' rule, but as I said we weren't too familiar with the options and I never did. As it was, the apparent necessity to risk at least one round of shots in the face led to no close combats happening over the course of either game. This may be partly because - we need more LoS blocking terrain. We played on the club's set of WargamesTournament's MDF gantries, which I think are often used for Necromunda. I have some of their walkways, ladders and stairs for Infinity. But it's too full of holes to make a table for that game, and I think it might be for Necromunda as well. I would like to try future games on my own home made terrain (again, for Infinity) which breaks up the table far more. As is, - you need some guys with long range weapons! In both games, I had one guy with heavy stubber and the lack of many (any in the first game) troops with rifles or similar really kept me pinned down. Pure close combat needs terrain and tactics to work, it's not like old-school 40k where you could just run across the table, take some casualties, but still sweep him in CC. - I need to convince the other guys to use the 'Community Edition' rules. We played using the original rulebook and there are just tons of obviously weird, janky or just very poorly explained bits in there. I am not too keen to crack on with the same gang (we all rolled new gangs for the day, which took forever; 4 of my starting 10 are dead) but I have ordered some fresh models and will make a better-rounded Orlock gang. If so I am happy to keep the games going and see if I can get a campaign started. Does anyone have any sterling words of wisdom to pass onto a beginning group? IneptMule, I know you play Necromunda a fair bit.
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Apr 16, 2017 21:10
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You have step one: use the community edition rules. Other than that, you need some long range fire power, so get some Las guns and autoguns. Frag grenades are great, so get some for your juves - I like to run them up and have them all chuck some frags into the opposing gang. Always have a backup gun for your heavy, since you'll invariably fail an ammo check. Cover is necessary, so make sure your buddies and load up the table.
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Apr 16, 2017 22:59
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SW:A league started at the FLGS today. Played three games. Two against Scouts, one against Harlequins, playing as Vet Guard. Game #1: Ambush, I was defender. Lost this one fast and hard on turn 2, didn't cause a single wound. My Flamer Specialist ended up getting Frenzy and missing a game. Another guy got "What Doesn't Kill You..." and picked up Marksman, which seemed pretty awesome. The guy I picked to advance got Crack Shot, which sounds fun. Recruited a kitted out Sniper Specialist. Game #2: Kill Team Skirmish. This one took forever because we had a properly built up map and both ended up overwatching and diving from cover to cover. Nobody took a wound for something stupid like 12 turns, and then he moved three guys close enough that one grenade could hit all three, and I lobbed four grenades that direction in one turn.  No failed armor saves, but that spooked him and when two of his guys failed their test to recover from pinning I was able to get good shots on them on good numbers, and enough of them dropped that I won on a bottle (while taking tests of my own). Same deal as before, one of my guys ended up getting Hatred for one of his models, my Sergeant ended up getting an advance and rolling Destined for Greatness. One of my guys got "What Doesn't Kill You..." again (same guy, even) and picked up Fast Shot to go with his Crack Shot, and two of the others died.  Recruited a couple Guard with Lasguns/Hotshot, cringing at the idea of having to take a wound without Carapace. Also managed to capture an enemy sniper, so we're going to have to do that mission next time we play.Game #: Scavengers. By far my favorite game of the night, because I was playing against Harlequins and we used the Space Hulk board, complete with arriving from random directions with boarding torpedoes. Treated each square as one inch, which ended up working serviceably well. Harlequins are loving terrifying when all you have are twisting and winding hallways and they move 12 spaces per turn on a charge and you move 4 on a regular move or 0 if you want to overwatch. Lost this one on caches, but managed to pull off the glorious impossible when one Harlequin tried to charge two of my guys on Overwatch. Sniper needed a 6 to hit thanks to short range, overwatch, and the guy charging, and somehow managed to pull that sick-nasty shot off. No wound, but pinned and prevented the charge. The other guy nailed him with a Lasgun, and managed to wound and drop him. Next turn, charged into contact and removed. I like to imagine they only stopped screaming in terror once the Harlequin stopped moving. Sergeant ended up getting the advance here, and I rerolled what would have been a skill into an extra Wound, which I will consider a massive win. Bought my new guys some Carapace and red dots while I was at it.Playing on a Space Hulk board was fun as poo poo and my opponent agreed with me completely. Hopefully getting to do more of that again.
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Apr 17, 2017 05:10
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Strobe posted:Playing on a Space Hulk board was fun as poo poo and my opponent agreed with me completely. Hopefully getting to do more of that again. Hmm, I wonder if I should take the cardboard BoP maps for a spin...
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Apr 17, 2017 10:34
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Genghis Cohen posted:Does anyone have any sterling words of wisdom to pass onto a beginning group? IneptMule, I know you play Necromunda a fair bit. Thanks! Yes, I play a lot. Would be fun to play with you sometime - give me a bell if you're ever in my neck of the woods. Prepare yourself for wall of text. Your points: quote:for close combat to be worth it, you need to get there. I can now think of a lot of times where I could have used the 'Hiding' rule... Yes. Getting to combat is one of the big challenges of the game for CC specialists. Unfortunately, for a so-called 'Combat' gang, Goliaths have the fewest tools to help them with this. More on this later. Definitely hide, a lot. Especially early on until your fighters develop to give them some abilities to become a bit more resilient. quote:we need more LoS blocking terrain. We played on the club's set of WargamesTournament's MDF gantries, which I think are often used for Necromunda. This is definitely true, although you can cheat it by piling on more and more of the holey terrain. The Wargames Tournaments works well but honestly you always need to combine some sets to get enough of a variety. The other reason I like the Wargames Tournaments set is that it mirrors the aesthetics of the original Necro terrain and that appeals to me. Ensuring there is enough scatter terrain on the walkways and on the ground is important (usually players miss one or the other of these), and following the usual rules of resisiting the urge to set up an arena killing ground in the middle with towers around the edge is as always important. No towers in deployment zones, no easily reached positions with sight lines greater than about 16-18" and that sort of thing. quote:you need some guys with long range weapons! Definitely. Necromunda is a shooting-dominated game. Yes, your gang has access to Muscle and Combat skills, but with starting gangs they are basically the same as any other and just as vulnerable. For any starting gang you probably want a 60/40% split in favour of ranged-focus fighters. Always use your leader to fill a gap that the rest of your gang struggles to fill (in your case shooting, so giving the leader a plasma gun or grenade launcher can be a great choice.) While you are starting up, always choose your gang's 'utility skill' tree when getting skill level ups, until each fighter's focus starts to emerge from the stat increases. For example, if you have a ganger who rolls a skill as their first level up, take Ferocity, because it is not role specific and gives great all-round benefits that are useful to a shooter or a CC fighter. If however you get a guy up to WS4, multiple attacks and the like, then you can start rolling for Muscle or Combat skills on him. Gradually a gang like yours will drift towards more of a 40/60% split in favour of close combat, but I'd never go further than that. Also remember that, while a fighter with a basic weapon cannot get bonus attacks for two CC weapons, if they get some additional attacks on their profile from levelling up and develop their WS and BS in parallel they can be a great all rounder with (my favourite) a shotgun for a beastly mid-range fighter that can counter charge or support your wave of CC specialists. Last thing I'll say here is that it's perfectly possible for a fighter to develop into a dependable fire support guy without ever getting a shooting skill. High BS is worth a lot, and if you get him some of the muscle or ferocity skills that resist damage or pinning he can be a very solid threat that takes a lot of effort to neutralise. quote:I need to convince the other guys to use the 'Community Edition' rules. We played using the original rulebook and there are just tons of obviously weird, janky or just very poorly explained bits in there. Yes. Goliaths in particular suffer if you're using the Original Rulebook as the old school muscle table is utter pants. NCE is great however for many reasons. I resisted it at first but I am 100% a convert after trying it out. quote:I am not too keen to crack on with the same gang (we all rolled new gangs for the day, which took forever; 4 of my starting 10 are dead) but I have ordered some fresh models and will make a better-rounded Orlock gang. If so I am happy to keep the games going and see if I can get a campaign started. Remember that you can hire fighters from disbanded gangs if they have earned a useful level up or two. They cost an additional credit per experience point. Also with NCE, most groups ignore the House Weapon Lists as they are pretty arbitrary and approach giving gangs more flavour in the wrong way. I could write loads more but will leave it there. Good luck with the campaign and let us know how it goes.
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Apr 17, 2017 11:51
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Not really something you can control well, but the territories that provide special deployment options (tunnels and vents) are very useful for getting guys into combat, as they arrive at different locations.
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Apr 17, 2017 13:27
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ineptmule posted:Thanks! Yes, I play a lot. Would be fun to play with you sometime - give me a bell if you're ever in my neck of the woods. Thanks for all the advice mate! Do you still live around the metropolis where I last saw you? I should be moving down south again later this year, so yeah, would be great to meet up for a game. Everything you say about armament, terrain and skills I can absolutely understand. I just need to play a few games now to get a firmer sense of how to actually maneuver my models around the battlefield. I think the starting similarity between gangs is absolutely a strength of the game, and more variety will appear as people develop. Holy hell the game is random though! There's a very few dice rolls standing between slaughtering your enemies and ending up with multiple wounds vs getting dumped off a gangway and dying or sustaining crippling long term injuries. Most of my gaming has been tournament Infinity recently, which is a great game but is very much short & sharp - you play hard, mind your tactics, and if you lose then its on to the next game. There is a strategic shift in how one plays during a long campaign where you have to manage risk on your experienced guys. Very much looking forward to trying scenarios etc. Ashcans posted:Not really something you can control well, but the territories that provide special deployment options (tunnels and vents) are very useful for getting guys into combat, as they arrive at different locations. Interestingly, I rolled 2 sets of Vents and my first opponent rolled one - unfortunately he rolled to go first, and pre-emptively seized a much better position. I compounded the problem by picking quite a bad position for 2 of my 4 vent-deploying gangers. It was a learning experience! I can see how both rules would be extremely useful once I'm familiar with the tactics of the game.
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Apr 17, 2017 14:59
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Shadin posted:I love the idea of SM Scouts but those faces are so atrocious I've never pulled the trigger. Are there any good helmeted alternatives for them? I used Chaos Warrior helmets with the horns shaved off. 
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Apr 17, 2017 19:58
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Finished those Necromunda tokens. I stood about 6 feet away and they read pretty well for the most part. The only problem ones for me are the On Fire and Destroyed tokens (the square flame and explosion ones) I keep confusing the two at a distance for some reason. I probably should have given them more size or color difference, but oh well. Here's a pic of them if anyone was curious: Now that I've run out of little ancillary distractions, I've got to start making an entire boards worth of terrain. It's going to be a learning experience because I've never made terrain before.
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Apr 18, 2017 09:15
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Genghis Cohen posted:Thanks for all the advice mate! Do you still live around the metropolis where I last saw you? I should be moving down south again later this year, so yeah, would be great to meet up for a game. Hey dude. Yep, still in London, hit me up when you come back down! I'm not sure what you mean by the random in Necro, it doesn't feel all that different to Infinity in terms of how brutal it can be. I guess maybe you're referring to the impacts on the long term health of your gang that results from injuries and so on? One of the things you'll probably want to develop is a sense of when to cut your losses and withdraw. Most of the time, you are eligible to 'bottle out' and concede the game once you've lost at least a quarter of your models. Doing this might feel like a cop out (and will likely earn you some derision from others in the campaign) but it honestly it's sometimes pretty necessary to avoid a certain bloodbath that could easily cripple you when the injuries are rolled. Overwatch & Hiding are two really crucial gameplay elements to make use of. As an infinity player I expect overwatch is not going to be difficult for you to pick up! Just remember that each overwatcher can only fire once and that there can be a hefty penalty on the shot's To Hit roll depending on the specific circumstances. Building up a solid defence of overwatchers can help you cover the movements of your CC crew. As for movement, remember that ladders are open ground. It feels counter intuitive but a model can move up and ladders with no penalty to their movement rate. This means that you can charge using ladders and have a really large 3D threat bubble. Getting into the mindset of using ladders for this and it will help.
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Apr 18, 2017 17:49
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Overwatch is a flat -1 to hit, and you pick when in their move within your life of sight you take the shot. Thanks to cover, it might actually be a tougher shot not on overwatch, but the trade-off is that they can just choose not to move. That, in itself, can be a victory. Just remember that you have to let your opponent figure out their whole move with that unit before you take the shot. If they start and end it out of line of sight, you have to make an Initiative test to get the shot off in time. If you fail, no penalty you just don't get to shoot that targetand you remain on overwatch. It's a neat mechanic and I like it a lot.
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Apr 18, 2017 18:40
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ineptmule posted:One of the things you'll probably want to develop is a sense of when to cut your losses and withdraw. Most of the time, you are eligible to 'bottle out' and concede the game once you've lost at least a quarter of your models. Doing this might feel like a cop out (and will likely earn you some derision from others in the campaign) but it honestly it's sometimes pretty necessary to avoid a certain bloodbath that could easily cripple you when the injuries are rolled. Yea, this is a really good point, especially if you haven't played campaign-style games before. In a lot of wargames you basically want to push as hard as you can for as long as you can, just because you may pull off some long-odds win or draw. What's to lose? But in Necromunda the answer to that is 'a lot'. If you find yourself on the back foot and don't see any way to turn it around, don't be afraid to bottle out and avoid further loses. You might even find yourself in a situation where you realize you have royally hosed things up somehow (forgetting about an objective or an opponents models, etc) and you can tell its going to be a nightmare to fight to the end. In that situation, well, maybe its time to cut your loses.
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Apr 18, 2017 18:58
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Strobe posted:Overwatch is a flat -1 to hit, and you pick when in their move within your life of sight you take the shot. Thanks to cover, it might actually be a tougher shot not on overwatch, but the trade-off is that they can just choose not to move. That, in itself, can be a victory. There can be other modifiers, models may remain in cover during their move, the target may be charging the shooter, and of course you may not be able to fire at all if it's a fleeting target.
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Apr 18, 2017 20:18
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Ashcans posted:Yea, this is a really good point, especially if you haven't played campaign-style games before. In a lot of wargames you basically want to push as hard as you can for as long as you can, just because you may pull off some long-odds win or draw. What's to lose? But in Necromunda the answer to that is 'a lot'. If you find yourself on the back foot and don't see any way to turn it around, don't be afraid to bottle out and avoid further loses. You might even find yourself in a situation where you realize you have royally hosed things up somehow (forgetting about an objective or an opponents models, etc) and you can tell its going to be a nightmare to fight to the end. In that situation, well, maybe its time to cut your loses. Maybe it's less of a thing in SWA, but in NM it happens quite often that people lose the game but "win" the post-game. And that's why voluntarily bottling can be good.
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Apr 18, 2017 22:22
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All very good points. The changes to overwatch jump out at me as maybe the biggest update in the 'Community' rules, given the rules we played with last week were the original, well oldschool ones, and overwatch was just flat shooting. I'm not sure which of the limits and curbs on it were from the updated published edition vs the community update. I think that's a massively good change, as everyone I know who played, say 2nd Ed 40k says that straight-up overwatch kills the game as everyone just camps in cover. But I don't want to force my opinions on the other players or anything. The randomness of the post-game is really what I mean when I say its surprising. The flow of the battle is no different to Infinity, which uses D20 but still puts very heavy tactical consequences on the swing of a single dice. A fair bit of Infinity tactics is minimising this by bullying your opponent with 4-5 dice rolls to his 1; I haven't yet seen the equivalent in Necromunda, but very possibly if you have, say, 2 high end melee combatants charging an inexperienced guy without melee weapons, it's similarly decisive. But in Necromunda you seem to just feel it a bit more; when your gang leader bites the dust, it's not a setback which your counter-attack will render irrelevant, he will be taking that injury roll at the end of the game! All part of the fun though, and I really can't wait to see what quirks and personalities my guys develop. As I mentioned, I built a Goliaths gang out of Catachan/Marauder bits ages ago. I have put some work into renovating some of the conversions which are not as good (with hindsight) and made a few extra figures out of the last remaining bits. I have also ordered a batch of Genestealer models (the mostly-human looking ones) with some bits set aside to make them into Orlocks. We'll see how that comes together, I like the mining-suit industrial worker bodies, hopefully head swaps and and good bits selection, plus some shaving/scraping will remove the alien elements from them and give me some gnarly gangers.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:21
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In case anyone is looking for SWA terrain...
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Apr 21, 2017 16:13
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berzerkmonkey posted:In case anyone is looking for SWA terrain... drat that's tempting. Looks like it could work for a lot of games
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Apr 21, 2017 23:38
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berzerkmonkey posted:In case anyone is looking for SWA terrain... This is the same company that made the laser-cut wood terrain I just bought  pretty happy with it.That said, won't be backing this kickstarter as I already backed another kickstarter for terrain that I think looks even cooler 
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Apr 22, 2017 00:47
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Zaphod42 posted:This is the same company that made the laser-cut wood terrain I just bought Link?
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Apr 22, 2017 02:08
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TKIY posted:Link? Which? The terrain I bought from promethium forge: https://www.etsy.com/listing/514040519/industrial-chem-tank-terrain-for-28mm https://www.etsy.com/listing/515764141/industrial-vertical-chem-tank-terrain?ref=related-1 Pretty smart; mix an empty beer can with some wood and you've got some fantastic looking industrial tanks. As for the kickstarter that I backed: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1621774283/battle-systemstm-sci-fi-ii-terrain
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Apr 22, 2017 05:11
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Played some more Shadow War tonight with my new Catachan kill team. I was playing against an ork player with 12 models and nothing but sluggas and choppas. Anyways, in the first mission, my sergeant was in combat for 3-4 rounds and while he kept winning, he was completely incapable of wounding an ork with his chainsword. He wound up in a 2v1 fight so I thought I'd help him out with a lasgun shot. Naturally, the hit randomized to him, wounded him, and he failed his 4+ save. Luckily, the enemy orks bottled out immediately.
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Apr 22, 2017 07:55
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Safety Factor posted:Played some more Shadow War tonight with my new Catachan kill team. I was playing against an ork player with 12 models and nothing but sluggas and choppas. Anyways, in the first mission, my sergeant was in combat for 3-4 rounds and while he kept winning, he was completely incapable of wounding an ork with his chainsword. He wound up in a 2v1 fight so I thought I'd help him out with a lasgun shot. Naturally, the hit randomized to him, wounded him, and he failed his 4+ save.  gaming
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Apr 22, 2017 08:15
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Safety Factor posted:Played some more Shadow War tonight with my new Catachan kill team. I was playing against an ork player with 12 models and nothing but sluggas and choppas. Anyways, in the first mission, my sergeant was in combat for 3-4 rounds and while he kept winning, he was completely incapable of wounding an ork with his chainsword. He wound up in a 2v1 fight so I thought I'd help him out with a lasgun shot. Naturally, the hit randomized to him, wounded him, and he failed his 4+ save. Shadow War is so much Bloodbowl 40k and I love it for that.
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Apr 22, 2017 08:39
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Shadow War rulebook is up for pre-order, $40 https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/shadowwar-armageddon-sb-eng-2017 200 pages, considering the starter rule book was 118 pages and the online update was 71 pages, that means 12 pages of new rules. Although we already know we're getting adeptas sororitas and inquisition, so that probably accounts for the full 12 pages. E: WAIT. The online rules updated and now include soroitas and inquisition ALREADY! https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/ShadowWar/SWA_Killteams_ENG.pdf
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Apr 22, 2017 20:00
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If only any of those forces had non ugly official models. Which weren't insanely priced, like SoBs.
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Apr 22, 2017 20:11
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Yeah its kinda pointless unless they release plastic sisters, but hey some people already have them. And filling a kill team of metal sisters is more practical than trying to field an entire 40k army of them too.
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Apr 22, 2017 20:16
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I'd love some plastic helmeted Sisters (SoS are proof that female faces are lostech), for kill team reasons. Saint Celestine is the only exception, as she really looks good.
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Apr 22, 2017 20:47
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Really looking forwards to making an kill-team of Inquisitorial weirdos. Probably the greatest potential to go nuts converting out of all the official gangs. Speaking of SW:A, played the second round of my local campaign today. Played GC against Skitarii and completely wiped the floor with the Cogboys. I was a little nervous at first and blew a point to grab a Purestrain for this game, but looking back I would have been fine without them. Opponent played way to cautious and let me grab two of the four loot counters before he even got a shot off, rest of the game was my Cultists laying down the pressure as my Shotgun lads and Purestrain pushed them back to their own board edge before downing all but one dude in a single round of shooting. Postgame was crazy, won 300pts worth of requisition (100 for playing, 150 due to Hidden Cache being rolled for both of us, 50 due to Scavengers) and went nuts bulking out my squad. Considered a Seismic Cannon, but my Mining Laser seems to be good enough at vaporising anything that gets in range.
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Apr 22, 2017 21:26
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SteelMentor posted:Really looking forwards to making an kill-team of Inquisitorial weirdos. Probably the greatest potential to go nuts converting out of all the official gangs. I agree that Inquisition offers good converting options, but as with most of the other kill teams I am disappointed in the lack of list variety. It's as if they prioritised making the list as absolutely simple as possible, to the detriment of the options available. I'm a grown man, I can handle the complexity of choosing an Ordo Xeno/Malleus/Hereticus leader with differing wargear options. Why not allow 0-2 specialists from a mix of deathcult assassins, crusaders or techpriests? How about capping the number of acolytes who could get certain special weapons, so that I can field something punchier than a storm bolter?
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Apr 22, 2017 22:26
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