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1204 is another fun start, you get to crush the Latin Empire! Got to agree that the Charlie start was a mistake.
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Apr 23, 2017 05:50
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Are there any good, fairly comprehensive guides that aren't really outdated? I have some friends I'd like to get into this game, but there's so much to it I'm worried it'll be a bit overwhelming for them and would like some resources to help out. Also, why do people hate the Charlemagne start? I've had some fun with it.
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Apr 23, 2017 05:59
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Charlemagne is just a clusterfuck everywhere and the only basically guaranteed thing that happens is England forming
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Apr 23, 2017 06:06
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I kinda like the chaos of the charlie start. I've seen all kinds of crazy poo poo happen from that start, from the Jewish Karling Emperor of Francia I just posted about, to pagan religions managing to reform, to nomads settling and becoming feudal powerhouses, and so on and so on. Iunno, I don't mind it. It also helps that I don't give a hot poo poo about borders and thus don't sperg about how jacked up the map gets.
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Apr 23, 2017 06:10
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My problem with the Charlie start is that I feel like the cultural changes (Pictish-Scottish, Severian/Ilmenian/Volhynian-Russian, ect.) are super half-assed. In my personal mod I've tried making it less so, but I'm not a great modder so it's half-assed in a different way. I tend to prefer the Old Gods start, so I do have a little irritation at Iberia still being Visigothic by that point, I wish it'd have started to change by then. In my latest game, which I haven't gotten back to yet, that Crete game I've mentioned, I've seen the king of Italy become Jewish, inherit East Francia, lose Italy, and then hold off a Crusade. I think someone mentioned that it's because of an event with a court physician?
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Apr 23, 2017 06:18
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catlord posted:In my latest game, which I haven't gotten back to yet, that Crete game I've mentioned, I've seen the king of Italy become Jewish, inherit East Francia, lose Italy, and then hold off a Crusade. I think someone mentioned that it's because of an event with a court physician? From what I understand, it's because physicians you recruit can have various foreign religions (there's specific events for Jewish and Muslim physicians, and I think some random foreign ones too), and they can also have really high learning, which makes them popular tutors. The AI also likes the Heritage education focus, which lets tutors pass on their religion (and sometimes culture). This results in heirs picking up religions they'd never get otherwise. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Apr 23, 2017 |
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Apr 23, 2017 06:26
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steakmancer posted:Charlemagne is just a clusterfuck everywhere and the only basically guaranteed thing that happens is England forming It's that, the giant clowncar blobs that never collapse, so much of the map being covered with tribal garbage, ugh. Compared that to 1337 which has the Byzantine/Ottoman showdown, proto-Renaissance Italy without the HRE, the endgame of the Hundred Years' War between France and England, the Spanish kingdoms competing over the end of the Reconquista, and you can even play a Russian prince trying to overthrow an established Golden Horde. Fun, variable scenarios that don't explode into bordergore if you poke them too hard (with the challenge of a ~100 year time limit).
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Apr 23, 2017 06:43
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I like to start on the 1081 date and move the timeline around until I get to the point where Rum has taken a chunk of Byzantium, and the HRE no longer owns Southern Italy.
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Apr 23, 2017 06:49
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:It's that, the giant clowncar blobs that never collapse, so much of the map being covered with tribal garbage, ugh. Compared that to 1337 which has the Byzantine/Ottoman showdown, proto-Renaissance Italy without the HRE, the endgame of the Hundred Years' War between France and England, the Spanish kingdoms competing over the end of the Reconquista, and you can even play a Russian prince trying to overthrow an established Golden Horde. Fun, variable scenarios that don't explode into bordergore if you poke them too hard (with the challenge of a ~100 year time limit). Iunno man, prolly 9/10 times the muslim clowncars get owned by decadence for me, and Francia gets jacked by gavelkind. Occasionally one of them will stay cohesive and it may take a couple centuries for them to get split up but my experience is that they get jacked up over time more often than not. Like in my England game the Umayyads are still pretty solid in Spain and NW Africa (but their decadence is barely been staying under control) but the Abbasids got wrecked by decadence and a shia uprising in the east. The Byzantines are getting pounded by nomads, Norse are getting jacked up by Slavs/Suomuneskos, and Francia is pretty much constantly at war with either the Umayyads or various Christians. So basically there's some strong nations but none that are absolutely insurmountable. For reference, current year that that point is like ~950 from the charlie start. Honky Dong Country fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Apr 23, 2017 |
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Apr 23, 2017 08:02
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Soup du Jour posted:1204 is another fun start, you get to crush the Latin Empire! Got to agree that the Charlie start was a mistake. Someone should do a Latin Empire LP
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Apr 23, 2017 10:16
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Honky Dong Country posted:Iunno man, prolly 9/10 times the muslim clowncars get owned by decadence for me, and Francia gets jacked by gavelkind. Occasionally one of them will stay cohesive and it may take a couple centuries for them to get split up but my experience is that they get jacked up over time more often than not. Like in my England game the Umayyads are still pretty solid in Spain and NW Africa (but their decadence is barely been staying under control) but the Abbasids got wrecked by decadence and a shia uprising in the east. The Byzantines are getting pounded by nomads, Norse are getting jacked up by Slavs/Suomuneskos, and Francia is pretty much constantly at war with either the Umayyads or various Christians. So basically there's some strong nations but none that are absolutely insurmountable. For reference, current year that that point is like ~950 from the charlie start. Any of the second millennium starts blow those early ones out of the water because the nature of the devolution in the game works much better with the diversity of dynasties and the measure of anti-devolution powers of the early technologies without going full nuclear imperial admin. Not to mention it starts a bit more dynamically varied when the power structures aren't a couple big guys and all the pagan chaff.
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Apr 23, 2017 14:51
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Soup du Jour posted:1204 is another fun start, you get to   A continuation of the CK2+/RaW Jerusalem game I posted about a while ago. One of the blind king's sons pressed his claim on the Byzantines, but because he refused to convert to Orthodoxy the Byzantine Empire changed on the spot to the Latin Empire and I just rolled with it. A couple of generations later this guy took the throne, an Ambidextrous Brawny Duelist rank-5 swordsman who I assume rides into battle with a sword in each hand Drizzt Do'Urden-style because holy poo poo look at those combat modifiers. Also, I'm pleasantly surprised that the regnal numbering for the Latins starts at Augustus, because this guy is waaaaay more deserving of the name Constantine XI than that loser who lost Constantinople forever. 
ninjahedgehog fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Apr 23, 2017 |
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Apr 23, 2017 15:46
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I don't get the hate for the Charlemange start. Sure europe goes totally off rails, sure you have a 7/10 chance of an unstoppable karling blob, sure eastern europe is filled with tribal slavs who squat all over the place ruining borders, but goddamn is it fun for all those reasons too. It's completely off the rails by 1066 and something weird/new happens each time I run through that scenario. poo poo last game I had europe go muslim after the ummyads successfully took aquitaine and france due to the too much karling kings killing kin, leaving the throne in the hands of an idiot baby. I think this was also the game where byzantium collapsed because of the iconoclast heresy, each new emperor was either orthodox or iconoclast alternative which really hosed with vassal relations!
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Apr 23, 2017 16:37
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Honky Dong Country posted:I don't even know what to make of my new court physician. He's a genius one-eyed celibate indian adventurer with clown make-up on. The makeup is tied to Sinhala culture, I think.
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Apr 23, 2017 20:10
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Roland Jones posted:Are there any good, fairly comprehensive guides that aren't really outdated? I have some friends I'd like to get into this game, but there's so much to it I'm worried it'll be a bit overwhelming for them and would like some resources to help out. Seconding this request. Good guide would be awesome.
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Apr 23, 2017 20:31
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Kalenden posted:Seconding this request. Good guide would be awesome. The problem with a guide is that the game's complicated enough to need something like 10-12 different guides, depending on who you decide to play as. I mean, the LP Tutorial thread (linked in the OP) had 9 'completed' runs in it, plus a few incomplete ones.
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Apr 23, 2017 22:25
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So apparently you can stack construction time down to 1 day builds with some events. Quarry + Hermetic Tech Event + Councillor Also this is really annoying, can't invite matrilineally married females.  A problem when/if you send your kinsmen out into the world, they lose their stuff, and end up in some random's court. Male side is no-go since they don't fulfill the lesser union clause. Meanwhile regularly married men can be invited to and fro, e.g. 
lurksion fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Apr 24, 2017 |
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Apr 24, 2017 01:07
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kingturnip posted:The problem with a guide is that the game's complicated enough to need something like 10-12 different guides, depending on who you decide to play as. I mean, the LP Tutorial thread (linked in the OP) had 9 'completed' runs in it, plus a few incomplete ones. Fair enough. Was hoping for a general concept thing, but this could explain at least most of that. Thanks. Question I have, meanwhile, have units been reworked since 2.6, or are things about the same as they were then (use pikemen or heavy infantry retinues, don't use horse archers, etc.)?
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Apr 24, 2017 04:34
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So right now i'm one county away from uniting ireland under my current queen (ulster - i tried the ua briain 1066 start) but the current title holder is also the countess of argyll because she inconveniently pressed a claim while I was busy whipping the rest of ireland into line. I have multiple CBs (de jure claim due to queenship, a fabricated claim, and a few claimants hanging around) but I apparently can't grab it because she's a vassal of the duke of the isles who is a vassal of the king of scotland. I even waited until a revolt broke out in scotland and still couldn't declare war. What's the best way to get hold of it?
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Apr 24, 2017 06:22
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Roland Jones posted:Fair enough. Was hoping for a general concept thing, but this could explain at least most of that. Thanks. I intended my previous comment to be a bit of a  , given that things have moved on quite a bit since those Tutorials were done.I started a new game last night (Feudal, 769) and took a tonne of screenshots; if I get time in the next couple of days, I'll see about turning them into a bit of a tutorial.
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Apr 24, 2017 06:26
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At least in the Charlemagne start, it's possible for the Karlings to lose all their poo poo to some factions. Compare that to the Old Gods start, where Western Europe is a Karling thunderdome, forever.
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Apr 24, 2017 06:48
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andrew smash posted:So right now i'm one county away from uniting ireland under my current queen (ulster - i tried the ua briain 1066 start) but the current title holder is also the countess of argyll because she inconveniently pressed a claim while I was busy whipping the rest of ireland into line. I have multiple CBs (de jure claim due to queenship, a fabricated claim, and a few claimants hanging around) but I apparently can't grab it because she's a vassal of the duke of the isles who is a vassal of the king of scotland. I even waited until a revolt broke out in scotland and still couldn't declare war. What's the best way to get hold of it? Are you trying to declare war on her directly? You have to declare war on her liege, the king of Scotland.
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Apr 24, 2017 06:51
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I saw that was possible, I was hoping somebody knew a trick or two to steal it back without getting annihilated.
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Apr 24, 2017 13:23
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Ireland and Wales have just about the same levying potential as Scotland and its the easiest place to expand anyway so you're going to need to do the necessary sooner than later. If England already snapped up Wales, well, time to save up some merc money.
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Apr 24, 2017 13:37
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2.7.1 is out of beta. Wonder if they toned down secret religious cults, b/c the patch notes don't say. lurksion fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Apr 24, 2017 |
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Apr 24, 2017 16:41
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Thought I'd test out the secret religion mechanics with Old Gods Gilan, but the Abbasids did so poorly at the start that I was able to form Persia with my my first ruler. Now I've got a Satanspawn Saoshyant 
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Apr 24, 2017 20:10
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andrew smash posted:I saw that was possible, I was hoping somebody knew a trick or two to steal it back without getting annihilated. You have to declare war on the highest liege. During a rebellion, you'd have to declare war on the leader or the rebellion. My strategy when I'm outnumbered is to either to save up a lot of money to hire mercenaries to outnumber them for a couple years, and/or ally with a nearby country or two through marriages (in your case, England, France, or The Holy Roman Empire), and when they're not busy with their own war, declare war, and call in your allies to help.
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Apr 25, 2017 02:51
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andrew smash posted:I saw that was possible, I was hoping somebody knew a trick or two to steal it back without getting annihilated. If he's still here tribal do what you can to damage his prestige by joining other wars against him and fomenting rebellions with your chancellor. Consider that if he is feudal but it's critical you have more prestige than he does. See if you can find an ally through marriage. Nothing is new satisfying than watching France curbstop an opponent with doom stacks. Leverage the water crossings. His units will have huge penalties. That plus tribal levies could give you a good chance. But alliances are your best bet.
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Apr 25, 2017 06:35
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Honky Dong Country posted:E: Also in my current England game (Charlie start) the current Emperor of Francia is a jew and just kicked all of Christendom's rear end in a crusade against him for W.Francia. The amazing thing is I have no idea how he ended up Jewish because none of this family is Jewish at all. All I can see is that some Jews have managed to obtain titles in French and Lombard territory and I guess this dude got educated by one or something. And it won't even last, as his heir is a grown adult who's not Jewish and hates the current Emperor, so he won't be conceding to a demand for conversion without jail. Also I'm cheesing my way into english culture since you pretty much never see even Normans pop up from the charlie start. I started as Mercia then had my kids educated in Brittany to get Breton culture, then once a few provinces turned breton I had my kids educated by Norse to eventually get Norman culture. Yeah basically how this happens is that a ruler with religion X ends up with a courtier with religion Y. This can be from owning mismatching provinces or having Jews show up via events. That ruler then chooses said courtier to be the educator of their heir for some reason, and thanks to the faith/heritage educations, the heir takes on that courtier's religion. And the AI is totally cool with this happening. Fast forward 20 years, that kid inherits the realm, and does all the typical poo poo you do when a foreigner takes over a realm: converting vassals, fighting factions, maybe a few holy wars or a crusade. You know how it goes. I've seen a Sunni Bulgaria, a (stable) Miaphysite Egypt, edit: I checked, it was a Monothelite Frisia from a wacky matrimarriage. Isn't CK2 great? You get different weird poo poo every time. Various Meat Products fucked around with this message at 11:30 on Apr 25, 2017 |
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Apr 25, 2017 11:12
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andrew smash posted:I saw that was possible, I was hoping somebody knew a trick or two to steal it back without getting annihilated. Wait for an opportunity. The nature of CKII is that a realm's power can vary pretty widely depending on circumstances. If your foe is only somewhat stronger than you, you can just wait for a revolt, war, or succession to destabilize their realm a bit. Alliances are an easy way to fill the gap in numbers, too. Also, it's not a huge deal if you lose an offensive war, since it just costs you some prestige and gold...just be careful about the aftermath, since if you completely blow your war potential someone else might take an opportunity to beat up on you while you're weak!
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Apr 25, 2017 15:45
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Midnight Voyager posted:That kid's someone's son of Satan. Yeah it's a cool mod but in a lot of ways its really lame like all the extra combat stuff and calling the highest tier fighter "Immortal Warlord"
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Apr 25, 2017 17:10
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There really needs to be a way to be a member of both the secret shiite society and the assassins.
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Apr 25, 2017 22:28
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I tried a bit of a game as the High Chief of Kola in the 769 start. It didn't end well, as it turns out there's poo poo-all up there, but I did have an interesting thing happen when I had a chief and his daughter/heir die on the same day. I didn't even get a chance to click "So Be It" before the second death notice popped up. She died in childbirth so it immediately went to the literally newborn baby too.
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Apr 27, 2017 07:54
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I'm thinking of picking up the DLC I don't have, which includes Conclave, Reaper's Due, and the new Monks and Mystics thing. Can someone give me a rough idea of the value of these? Conclave and Reaper's Due sound like they just make the game harder, which isn't really my thing.
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Apr 27, 2017 14:14
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Enola Gay-For-Pay posted:I'm thinking of picking up the DLC I don't have, which includes Conclave, Reaper's Due, and the new Monks and Mystics thing. Can someone give me a rough idea of the value of these? Conclave and Reaper's Due sound like they just make the game harder, which isn't really my thing. Conclave is one of my favorite DLCs, as it turns the council and vassal management into a much more interesting and controllable set of decisions and tradeoffs. It also makes playing as a vassal more interesting, as it makes being on your liege's council actually matter beyond increasing your plot power, and favors are a lot more powerful when you have a liege to use them against. Reaper's Due is fairly solid, I'd say. It definitely does increase your ruler's chance of death somewhat, but the new systems make those deaths feel more interesting, and you have more feedback and choices to make about it. Dying because your idiot court physician cut off your face and told you the cure for cancer is to go for a naked swim at midnight in the winter sucks, but it's still more satisfying than many of the non-DLC deaths, like suddenly dropping dead at age 35 because you had the Stressed trait and an unlucky RNG roll! The only time I've been genuinely annoyed at the DLC was the fact that the Black Death province modifier doesn't list its effects, so the absurd army attrition and total economic devastation it causes are easy to not notice until your own provinces get hit, which can leave you in a real rough spot if you didn't know to expect them. I don't have Monks and Mystics, but it sounds to me as more like a Way of Life style DLC that mostly offers new powers and bonuses rather than new mechanics, so I'm holding off and waiting for it to start going on sale.
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Apr 27, 2017 15:34
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I have the dlc and im not sure what's part of the base game now and what's dlc exclusive but its not necessarily harder. As far as Reapers due goes I've never seen a war declared in the midst of the plague because everyone is hurting but it really does come across as a gigantic event where before it was a oh did that happen kind of deal. it always seems to happen around 1150 though rather than the 1300s. And once you get a decent sized realm up and assuming you are a in a large religion group its pretty easy to have a high learning court doctor so that mitigates the amount of ways you can die a lot. I'd say it comes across as a more varied experience rather than a harder one. Its rare you get a total bullshit outcome like your groomed to perfection heir dies at 17 from rabies. As rare as dying at the most inopportune time was before. Conclave is more challenging I guess and more of a mixed bag of things you may or may not want. You can turn off shattered retreats so the enemy can't just escape after taking 1k casualties and regroup on you as you take siege losses in hostile territory. If you start real small though that could bite you in the rear end but you might be hosed anyway when you start small. And you can turn off defensive pacts so if you like to paint the map and things are stable at home you aren't twiddling your thumbs for long periods. On the otherhand defensive pacts might hinder the ai from excessive blobbing if everyone on the face of the earth is going to chew their rear end for seizing even more territory. What you are stuck with is large vassals who get very upset if they don't get a seat on the council even though they're totally incompetent retards. And they always kick off when your heir takes over. Normally people on the council cant join factions except when you've pissed them off by making them discontent but they are automatically discontent on succession. So every single time its loving drama. I feel that's bullshit if your heir is like 30, has the groomed to perfection trait, is on the council and has good stats when you die. A landless, loyal spymaster can absolutely take the legs out of from under factions and sometimes having a civil war can be useful to you if you want to redistribute titles or you want an excuse to put the high intrigue lunatic rival in the oubliette forever. Aside from the every succession there's drama issue I think giving more personality to what's going on within the realm and effectively from generation to generation adds a lot to it because you remember who's dad you had to put up with as steward, did I sleep with his wife and why is he so angry with me oh yeah because I mutilated his brother or whatever. There's probably something to be said about education. I think it got a bit duller but its also more manageable. I haven't played the recent post monks and mystics patches but on and around release it mostly gave you a bunch of power. I didn't feel like it added much in content. Maybe for 1 game when you become the top satanist or have a bunch of magnum opus, start your reign with near 20 in most stats and never get depressed but that's kind of hosed in its own way. I'd go for the ones you're less inclined to to be totally honest. Goofballs fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Apr 27, 2017 |
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Apr 27, 2017 15:49
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Me, after the Abbassids loving finally explode due to decadence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkpS2Sdu2io
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Apr 27, 2017 16:57
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Goofballs posted:As far as Reapers due goes I've never seen a war declared in the midst of the plague because everyone is hurting but it really does come across as a gigantic event where before it was a oh did that happen kind of deal. it always seems to happen around 1150 though rather than the 1300s. You can set when it appears through Game Rules. I think that the default is "300 years after game start," so I assume that you tend to start in the 867 bookmark. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Apr 27, 2017 |
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Apr 27, 2017 17:37
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If it makes a difference, M&M is IIRC the the only way to get the German and English/Norman portrait packs, which are the best they've ever done.
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Apr 27, 2017 17:52
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:You can set when it appears through Game Rules. I think that the default is "300 years after game start," so I assume that you tend to start in the 867 bookmark. I remember the setting being after 1100 or something like that there is a chance of it happening every year but never going full blown end of the world after the once that happens
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Apr 27, 2017 18:24
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