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I don't see a problem with owning pets as long as you are objectively giving them a better life than they would have otherwise. Buying/breeding purebreds should be illegal though unless you have a valid need for one (i.e. working dogs).
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Apr 25, 2017 11:55
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yeah I eat rear end posted:I don't see a problem with owning pets as long as you are objectively giving them a better life than they would have otherwise. Buying/breeding purebreds should be illegal though unless you have a valid need for one (i.e. working dogs). Dog "breeds" are the by-product of bored upper class Victorians mating and inbreeding canines to produce the look they were after. I agree with you on the quality of life, but that's difficult to measure objectively without input from the animal, and measuring it any other way is death by projection. Also, the culture pet ownership creates is devastating for humans and animals alike.
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Apr 25, 2017 13:04
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devastating, eh?
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Apr 25, 2017 13:18
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Intelligence is not a laudable trait; not any more than being tall is. Physical strength is laudable, and is more comparable to education than intelligence, in that maintaining physical strength and educating yourself requires exertion; education and physical strength is laudable as expressions of willpower and discipline. Intelligent people may have an easier time educating themselves, but being intelligent and being educated isn't the same thing. Losing weight in an attempt to be healthy is laudable, but having a high metabolism is not. Of course outside circumstance dictates possibilities in education and physical capacity, too, but not fully. starkebn posted:After having pets basically my whole life I've come to almost the same conclusion. Dogs and cats seem to be so bred to be around us I don't think it's as bad, but I'd like to see dog and cat ownership fade away. Reptiles I've got no experience with, fish seem brainless but I don't know, but I really wish people wouldn't keep birds Choom Gangster posted:Pet ownership is pathetic. The culture of pets and animal husbandry is disgusting. Choom Gangster posted:Also, the culture pet ownership creates is devastating for humans and animals alike. If those of you who hold these, or similar opinions, would be interested in expanding a bit, then I'd like to hear more in-depth about your reasoning or feeling behind it.
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Apr 25, 2017 13:20
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I too think that human beings, who have had companion animals for millennia, will suddenly not need/want them in the next couple decades. Not for companionship or for work. Just cover a drone with felt. I mean, what are we? Barbarians? ignores the fact that if we stopped having dogs and cats as pets then we would have to have mass exterminations of them
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Apr 25, 2017 13:26
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Choom Gangster posted:Dog "breeds" are the by-product of bored upper class Victorians mating and inbreeding canines to produce the look they were after. It's pretty easy to assume that a dog at the shelter would be better off in a loving home than either a) in a cage the rest of its life or b) being thrust into the wild it has no or very little experience surviving in, most likely starved to death or hit by a car within weeks. What does "culture of pet ownership" even mean? The only negative effect having a pet has on a human is you have to clean up its poo poo in one way or another, and add a small amount of financial strain (sudden severe medical expenses aside). Most people would say the positives far outweigh those negatives, and are certainly not "devastating". Unless you are unironically arguing the point of the kid in that one comic saying that pet ownership is akin to slavery, in which case you're a little nuts and need to settle down and pet a puppy or something.
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Apr 25, 2017 13:37
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I like dogs
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Apr 25, 2017 13:37
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oldpainless posted:I like dogs You monster. Don't you know what you're doing to human society?!?!
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Apr 25, 2017 13:40
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Anyone who doesn't or can't like dogs is a sad sad person
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Apr 25, 2017 13:42
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I like my dog but not most others, and furthermore think poodles are far and away the best kind of dog. Some people give them dumb, cruel show dog cuts or get tiny ones and utterly fail to socialize them. If you ignore the tv stereotypes and interact with the other 90% of poodles though... you'll never go back cute, smart, and healthy. Imo breed all dogs into being x-poodle mixes.
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Apr 25, 2017 13:47
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starkebn posted:After having pets basically my whole life I've come to almost the same conclusion. Dogs and cats seem to be so bred to be around us I don't think it's as bad, but I'd like to see dog and cat ownership fade away. Reptiles I've got no experience with, fish seem brainless but I don't know, but I really wish people wouldn't keep birds I don't understand why anyone would have a pet that's not a dog or cat. We have perfected the domestication of those animals. Everything else is just a thing that's alive that you like to look at, in which case just get a plant. Birds I get slightly more but birds in a cage just make me kind of sad and also they destroy your poo poo.
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Apr 25, 2017 13:57
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Henchman of Santa posted:I don't understand why anyone would have a pet that's not a dog or cat. We have perfected the domestication of those animals. Everything else is just a thing that's alive that you like to look at, in which case just get a plant. Reptiles are perfect pets precisely because they don't give a poo poo. Your dog has a panic attack every time you leave home and desperately wishes it could hang out and socialize in a proper canine environment where its packmates don't inexplicably leave or utterly fail to communicate. Meanwhile your snake is happy to trade "looks cool" for "weekly frozen mice, decent humidity, and protection." Reptiles and fishes as pets are far more humane than trapping and stunting an intelligent mammal in your home. My dog and all dogs would be far better off out doing doggy poo poo together rather than slowly dying in some rear end in a top hat's house. Edgar Allen Ho has a new favorite as of 14:14 on Apr 25, 2017 |
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Apr 25, 2017 14:12
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Sure, let's just send all the cats and dogs into the wild. I'm sure it will go great for them.
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Apr 25, 2017 14:17
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Henchman of Santa posted:Sure, let's just send all the cats and dogs into the wild. I'm sure it will go great for them. If only we could control their breeding, alas. The only option is to condemn them to painful death!
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Apr 25, 2017 14:18
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Dogs aren't wolves, they've been getting left alone by humans for like 15,000 years.
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Apr 25, 2017 14:20
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Hot Smart ARYAN Girl posted:Dogs aren't wolves, they've been getting left alone by humans for like 15,000 years. And still freak the hell out about it. My aunt had a rescue weimaraner that gored herself trying to leap a fence to follow my aunt to a bathroom. We made them that way. Just because we did it does not mean it's cool and good. It's also a fact that despite living longer, lifelong indoor cats are mentally stunted and essentially permakittens when compared to feral cats. It's almost as if perpetuating a race of idiot slave creatures is bad. "But daaaaaw he so cute!!" Edgar Allen Ho has a new favorite as of 14:31 on Apr 25, 2017 |
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Apr 25, 2017 14:21
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I'll actually disagree with that. Because if we did it that means it's cool and good, because humans rule. God drat we're the best. The worth of nonhumans are measured in how useful they are to humans.
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Apr 25, 2017 14:30
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I like my dog but not most others, and furthermore think poodles are far and away the best kind of dog. Some people give them dumb, cruel show dog cuts or get tiny ones and utterly fail to socialize them. If you ignore the tv stereotypes and interact with the other 90% of poodles though... you'll never go back Hello, poodle buddy   
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Apr 25, 2017 14:33
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Re-purpose all that subsidised American corn farmland into dog sanctuaries where they can all run and play and never be lonely again.
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Apr 25, 2017 14:34
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"yeah, yeah... ~~perpetual slave creatures~~ that's the ticket, that's how I really feel about it"
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Apr 25, 2017 14:35
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If we let cats reach their full intellectual potential they could be doctors or lawyers
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Apr 25, 2017 14:37
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Aramek posted:I'll actually disagree with that. Because if we did it that means it's cool and good, because humans rule. Disagree, but I'm also a home vegan who owns a dog and a snake and eats meat at restaurants, so my view of "our relationship with animals sucks, but is not bad enough to fight about" is very PHUO with people on all sides of the animal rights debate. We owe our dumbass animal companions as much love and happiness as we can give, but otoh we shouldn't perpetuate it. Our doggies' unconditional, adorable love is salted with a lot of fear and pain on their end. I wish there was a happy medium.
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Apr 25, 2017 14:41
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:It's also a fact that despite living longer, lifelong indoor cats are mentally stunted and essentially permakittens when compared to feral cats. It's almost as if perpetuating a race of idiot slave creatures is bad.
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Apr 25, 2017 15:01
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Haven't they done studies and shown that dogs and cats actually prefer being around humans more than other dogs or cats?
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Apr 25, 2017 15:17
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Henchman of Santa posted:I don't understand why anyone would have a pet that's not a dog or cat. We have perfected the domestication of those animals. Everything else is just a thing that's alive that you like to look at, in which case just get a plant. I used to have a reef tank and it was kind of cool to have a living decoration. It was more of a hobby than a pet really. Plus all the chemistry stuff was fun to get into, even if it was a pain in the rear end sometimes with a smaller tank. It's also a little hard not to develop at least some attachment to the fish. I mean yeah it's entirely one-way and you don't get much from them in return but I was still sad when they died. That might at least partially be because I knew I'd have to spend 50-100 dollars to get another one, though.
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Apr 25, 2017 15:18
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The_Rob posted:Haven't they done studies and shown that dogs and cats actually prefer being around humans more than other dogs or cats? The important part is what they do when you inevitably have to leave them. Imagine being a perpetual toddler except mom and dad abandon you 8-22 hours a day, and upon return croon about "look how happy she is!!!"
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Apr 25, 2017 15:49
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Reptiles are perfect pets precisely because they don't give a poo poo. Your dog has a panic attack every time you leave home and desperately wishes it could hang out and socialize in a proper canine environment where its packmates don't inexplicably leave or utterly fail to communicate. Yeah everyone's always like "Wow I wonder what shenanigans my dogs get up to when I'm not home" and then it's like 95% of the time them just staring at the door waiting for you to return and 5% trying to stave off the boredom by destroying something or trying to reach food. I don't think I've ever seen a home video of people's animals playing with each-other when humans aren't present
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Apr 25, 2017 15:53
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:The important part is what they do when you inevitably have to leave them. So to fix that does that mean we just genocide all the dogs and cats?
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Apr 25, 2017 16:42
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The_Rob posted:So to fix that does that mean we just genocide all the dogs and cats? Stop getting new ones and the market will sort itself out eventually.
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Apr 25, 2017 17:06
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The_Rob posted:So to fix that does that mean we just genocide all the dogs and cats? No, we treat our pets to the best life we can, as if they were fat roman caesars and we were the people assigned to feed them grapes. We just try to improve things for the next generation.
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Apr 25, 2017 17:08
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:No, we treat our pets to the best life we can, as if they were fat roman caesars and we were the people assigned to feed them grapes. We just try to improve things for the next generation. This may be the biggest first world problem/opinion I have ever heard. Well, until someone starts advocating for "Cruelty Free Authentic Corn Tortillas."
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Apr 25, 2017 17:12
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Solice Kirsk posted:This may be the biggest first world problem/opinion I have ever heard. Well, until someone starts advocating for "Cruelty Free Authentic Corn Tortillas." What problems do you face, friend, that allow you to post about the plight of domestic dogs in the phuo thread?
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Apr 25, 2017 17:13
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If aliens came down and genetically engineered humankind into helpless perma-toddlers with no purpose in life but eating, pooping, being cute and keeping our masters company, I'd be down with that.
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Apr 25, 2017 17:27
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Mu Zeta posted:Make it easier to fire bad teachers and also raise the salary to attract more skilled teachers. The only way teachers get fired today is if they gently caress their students. Teachers are incredibly opposed to making teaching like other jobs. I don't know if teacher quality is actually a problem, but I find it funny when teachers argue that their job is incredibly important to student achievement and so it is absolutely vital that we pay teachers more to attract top talent to teaching, but almost in the same breath diametrically oppose evaluation of teacher performance based on student performance, on the basis of 'well, actually teacher quality has a vanishingly small effect on student achievement'. Obviously the two positions undermine each other.
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Apr 25, 2017 17:49
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If you can find a reliable and fair method of separating good teachers from bad a lot of people would love to hear it. Trying to objectively measure that poo poo via standardized testing or grades or student reviews never gets the results people want. "I know a bad teacher when I see em' " doesn't make for an actual policy.
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Apr 25, 2017 17:51
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You could do it, but they don't have the resources to do it.
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Apr 25, 2017 17:56
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Baronjutter posted:If you can find a reliable and fair method of separating good teachers from bad a lot of people would love to hear it. Trying to objectively measure that poo poo via standardized testing or grades or student reviews never gets the results people want. "I know a bad teacher when I see em' " doesn't make for an actual policy. I think it would help at least a little to just raise the standards for hiring teachers. It's unrealistic but if hypothetically every teacher at every level had at least a master's degree in their subject, it would at least in theory lead to a better education for the kids. Looking back a lot of my non-AP teachers (and even some of them honestly) had no clue what they were doing and just taught straight from the book. It was more memorized regurgitation of what the book says rather than a true understanding of the subject. The problem as I said a while ago is that you are never going to get someone with a masters in physics or whatever to work in an elementary school teaching science because they could make a ton more money elsewhere. Until that changes we have to settle with the bottom of the barrel university of phoenix graduates in the poorer districts.
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Apr 25, 2017 18:01
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Those who can't do, teach.
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Apr 25, 2017 18:02
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Those who feel passion for learning and sharing what they know, teach. Also a bunch of assholes do it too.
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Apr 25, 2017 18:03
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What if what they can't do is not teach?
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Apr 25, 2017 18:10
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