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knowonecanknow posted:I should be good based on that calculator. Im stuck with the smaller boxes because my walls are very narrow. Some of the walls are only 2 inches deep. http://www.homedepot.com/p/1-Gang-17-cu-in-Shallow-Old-Work-Box-B117RSWR/202077341 Old work 17 cu in box that slides into a one gang sized shallow hole. I wouldn't try putting a gfci outlet in there but a regular outlet should be ok.
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Apr 20, 2017 17:39
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knowonecanknow posted:I should be good based on that calculator. Im stuck with the smaller boxes because my walls are very narrow. Some of the walls are only 2 inches deep. They make shallow wallbox extenders, I've had to use them in my home because GFCIs were too big to fit. Yes, they stick out from the wall but I used mine in the basement where I didn't really care and I painted it to match the wall. Leviton's come in white, ivory, and brown. Overpriced from Home Depot: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-...cB&gclsrc=aw.ds Reasonably priced from Platt, where I've had good luck: https://www.platt.com/platt-electric-supply/Leviton/6197-W/product.aspx?zpid=218274
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Apr 22, 2017 19:17
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Well I got power restored to the front of my house. Replaced all the old lovely knob and tube. I found 3 separate instances of bare wire and in 4 places it was so dry rotted and worn that whole section just snapped in half with minimal effort. I did remove it all as I went so the attic doesn't look like a complete mess in the joists anymore. Thanks for everyone's input--I got everything installed easy and without any problems. The ceiling fan was installed in the living room with only 1 screw hitting wood and no box to speak of. I can't believe it didn't fall down years ago.quote:http://www.homedepot.com/p/1-Gang-17-cu-in-Shallow-Old-Work-Box-B117RSWR/202077341
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Apr 23, 2017 21:51
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I'm not particularly great at understanding how to... size? out a homes electrical system. I'm not planning on doing this work myself, but before I bother getting electricians out to take a look, I'm wondering if there is a maximum number of sub panels you can have? My situation is I currently have a 200A service (at least, my main breaker is 200A) and that panel is completely full. About 3 inches away from that I have a 100A sub panel which is about half full, and then in a run out to an external shed I have a second sub panel which has a 60A breaker. The main panel (and the 100A sub panel) are in the basement, which I'm planning on finishing, so I'm looking at getting everything I know I want done that will involve running wires/pipes/etc through the basement before I start adding drywall to it. One of those things is adding a sub panel to my attached garage so I can utilize it as a workshop. Is adding a third sub panel (I honestly don't know what size I would want to add) an unreasonable thing to do in this situation?
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Apr 24, 2017 13:50
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Steampunk Hitler posted:I'm not particularly great at understanding how to... size? out a homes electrical system. I'm not planning on doing this work myself, but before I bother getting electricians out to take a look, I'm wondering if there is a maximum number of sub panels you can have? My situation is I currently have a 200A service (at least, my main breaker is 200A) and that panel is completely full. About 3 inches away from that I have a 100A sub panel which is about half full, and then in a run out to an external shed I have a second sub panel which has a 60A breaker. The main panel (and the 100A sub panel) are in the basement, which I'm planning on finishing, so I'm looking at getting everything I know I want done that will involve running wires/pipes/etc through the basement before I start adding drywall to it. Do you have an accurate map of where your breakers go? Modern code adds a lot of breakers which isn't specifically load on your panel. Do you have pictures of these panels? A 200A service panel could be inefficiently used, undersized, or both. Do you have electric AC, hot water, stove/oven, and clothes dryer? How many sqft is your house, bedrooms, bathrooms? What do you hope to use your garage shop for?
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Apr 24, 2017 16:20
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H110Hawk posted:Do you have an accurate map of where your breakers go? Modern code adds a lot of breakers which isn't specifically load on your panel. Do you have pictures of these panels? A 200A service panel could be inefficiently used, undersized, or both. Do you have electric AC, hot water, stove/oven, and clothes dryer? How many sqft is your house, bedrooms, bathrooms? What do you hope to use your garage shop for? Yea, the PO was very good about labeling the breaker box. I've added pictures below of the main panel and the 100A panel that is right beside it. The 60A panel in the shed afaik only has some lights and outlets for the shed itself on it (which hardly ever get used, it's just a storage shed) but I can get pictures of that too. We use a propane hot water heater, dryer, and furnace, but an electric AC, and stove/oven. The sqft of the house (not counting the garage itself, and counting the basement which has some insulation and electric/hvac but no flooring drywall or internal walls ATM) is ~5600. I hope to use my garage shop primarily for woodworking. Planning on getting a 220v table saw, I have a 110v mitre saw. Other tools will be added over time as well as funds allow. The main reason I'm looking at adding a sub panel is since a 220v table saw will require running a 220v line anyways (since I don't have any), I figured it'd be a better idea to get a sub panel in the garage so future runs for additional tools can be made easier. Main Panel   100A Basement Sub Panel  
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Apr 24, 2017 16:56
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Steampunk Hitler posted:I'm not particularly great at understanding how to... size? out a homes electrical system... Not at all unreasonable. There's a whole load factor calculation section in the code book; a qualified electrician will do that before adding a subpanel anywhere, and it's part of the permitting process. The final arbiter of "is this panel enough" is the power company, though. When I upgraded my house, I went from a 60A panel to a 200A panel. I let the PoCo know, and they dropped off a new meter base when they cut my power off. If they don't think your current service can handle the additional load, you'll get a second service (and a second bill).
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Apr 25, 2017 00:53
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:Not at all unreasonable. There's a whole load factor calculation section in the code book; a qualified electrician will do that before adding a subpanel anywhere, and it's part of the permitting process. The final arbiter of "is this panel enough" is the power company, though. When I upgraded my house, I went from a 60A panel to a 200A panel. I let the PoCo know, and they dropped off a new meter base when they cut my power off. If they don't think your current service can handle the additional load, you'll get a second service (and a second bill). Interesting, does that mean that 200A is the largest residential service available and to get larger you need two?
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Apr 25, 2017 02:15
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Steampunk Hitler posted:Interesting, does that mean that 200A is the largest residential service available and to get larger you need two? Pretty much, yeah. Around most of the US I've been in, 200A is the largest meter base the PoCo stocks. Technically, I know there are 320A services available with 400A meter bases, but those are very rare, and pretty expensive, only for new construction, and only on all-electric houses where the CONTINUOUS load is expected to be over 200A.
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Apr 25, 2017 02:33
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200A is a ton of power, too. The vast majority of houses simply don't need it. Though with the increasing popularity of electric cars, that may well end up changing.
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Apr 25, 2017 02:40
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:200A is a ton of power, too. The vast majority of houses simply don't need it. Though with the increasing popularity of electric cars, that may well end up changing. Cool, I really don't have any feel for what is a lot or not (I've done basic wiring of outlets and a lot of low voltage, but never done any planning of 110+v stuff, only just was extra labor). I've seen people online with a woodworking shop in a garage or outbuilding talking about sub panels from 60A all the way up to 125A which feels like a very wide range. I think my next step since this doesn't seem like a crazy thing to do is to get an electrician out to quote me and see what they think a panel should be sized at for here.
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Apr 25, 2017 04:10
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Steampunk Hitler posted:Cool, I really don't have any feel for what is a lot or not (I've done basic wiring of outlets and a lot of low voltage, but never done any planning of 110+v stuff, only just was extra labor). I've seen people online with a woodworking shop in a garage or outbuilding talking about sub panels from 60A all the way up to 125A which feels like a very wide range. I think my next step since this doesn't seem like a crazy thing to do is to get an electrician out to quote me and see what they think a panel should be sized at for here. If you dig a trench put in larger conduit than you want, and run low voltage at the same time. Then you always have wifi, netflix, etc.
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Apr 25, 2017 04:30
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Steampunk Hitler posted:Cool, I really don't have any feel for what is a lot or not (I've done basic wiring of outlets and a lot of low voltage, but never done any planning of 110+v stuff, only just was extra labor). I've seen people online with a woodworking shop in a garage or outbuilding talking about sub panels from 60A all the way up to 125A which feels like a very wide range. I think my next step since this doesn't seem like a crazy thing to do is to get an electrician out to quote me and see what they think a panel should be sized at for here. Yeah, asking an expert is absolutely a valid option. Note that there's a difference between the capacity of a panel and what's being supplied to it. The subpanel on my workshop won't get more than 60A, because that's what the breaker at the main panel is set to, but the components in the subpanel are capable of handling up to 200A without melting/catching on fire. I just bought an oversized panel because the cost delta between that and an appropriately-sized one was minimal. There's nothing wrong (so far as I'm aware) with oversizing the components in your circuits, so long as you don't oversize the circuit breakers themselves. EDIT: re: conduit size, I used 1" rigid conduit and wish I'd gone bigger; pulling the cable through was a bear and I certainly can't retroactively add things to the conduit now. Go 1.5" at minimum, 2" for preference if your run has any remotely significant amount of turns in it.
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Apr 25, 2017 04:33
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H110Hawk posted:If you dig a trench put in larger conduit than you want, and run low voltage at the same time. Then you always have wifi, netflix, etc. TooMuchAbstraction posted:
This would be going from the main panel located in the basement, to an attached garage located on the opposite side of the house while the basement is currently (though we plan to change that) largely unfinished. That's one of the reasons I'm looking at putting a sub panel in the garage at all, to make it easier to expand the garage as I buy tools and upgrade the shop. I figure that's the best way to get something done now, while the basement is open and easy to access (I'm going to need a 220v line run for my next tool purchase anyways) without having to try and guess what exactly I'm going to want in the garage in the future. I suppose it's possible to run a conduit through the joists in the basement ceiling to make it easier to pull lines through there if needed in the future, but since it's a fire rated wall between the garage and the house, I assumed that would be more trouble than it's worth (not to mention needing to prevent fumes from entering the house). TooMuchAbstraction posted:Note that there's a difference between the capacity of a panel and what's being supplied to it. The subpanel on my workshop won't get more than 60A, because that's what the breaker at the main panel is set to, but the components in the subpanel are capable of handling up to 200A without melting/catching on fire. I just bought an oversized panel because the cost delta between that and an appropriately-sized one was minimal. There's nothing wrong (so far as I'm aware) with oversizing the components in your circuits, so long as you don't oversize the circuit breakers themselves. This seems like a good idea if the cost delta isn't too high. Presumably I could get a higher rated panel and have the wire in the run sized to match and just have the breakers set up to handle the smaller load. Seems like it'd be an easy way to allow flexibility in the future if we end up needing a second service to either split the garage itself onto it's own service (by just switching what feeds that panel) or by bringing in the second service next to the first service, and just continuing to use the bigger wire/box even if we need more juice in the garage/workshop.
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Apr 25, 2017 04:56
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Steampunk Hitler posted:This seems like a good idea if the cost delta isn't too high. Presumably I could get a higher rated panel and have the wire in the run sized to match and just have the breakers set up to handle the smaller load. Seems like it'd be an easy way to allow flexibility in the future if we end up needing a second service to either split the garage itself onto it's own service (by just switching what feeds that panel) or by bringing in the second service next to the first service, and just continuing to use the bigger wire/box even if we need more juice in the garage/workshop. If I recall the panel cost maybe $20 more than it "needed" to. The real source of extra cost from outsizing your panel is if you actually want to supply that much power to the panel, because that means running thicker wire (= more copper = more money) in the conduit and using a bigger breaker at the main panel. But you can just run normal-sized wire now, use larger conduit, and replace the wire later if you decide you really need 220V/100A in your workshop.
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Apr 25, 2017 05:01
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H110Hawk posted:If you dig a trench put in larger conduit than you want, and run low voltage at the same time. Then you always have wifi, netflix, etc. Run two conduits and segregate your low and high voltage.
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Apr 25, 2017 11:32
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:Pretty much, yeah. Around most of the US I've been in, 200A is the largest meter base the PoCo stocks. Technically, I know there are 320A services available with 400A meter bases, but those are very rare, and pretty expensive, only for new construction, and only on all-electric houses where the CONTINUOUS load is expected to be over 200A. 200a is most common, I'd say that's the standard size for anything new. Sometimes a trailer will install a 100a meterbase, but we still run the same size service wire as 200a. That being said, we run bigger services pretty regularly, and we're a small co-op. Bigger houses seem to want 320a commonly now. The bigger boxes have bolt in lugs, so they can more easily run to several sub-panels right off the meterbase. But just because you install a poo poo ton of panels and a big meterbase, it doesn't mean we're going to install a giant transformer...I have a chart I got from a school recently, where an engineer breaks down his methodology for sizing transformers and services in subdivisions (gas y/n, ac by tonnage, sq ft, etc). There's no standard on how to size so it differs by company. If I can remember I'll try to post it. angryrobots fucked around with this message at 12:42 on Apr 25, 2017 |
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Apr 25, 2017 12:35
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brugroffil posted:Run two conduits and segregate your low and high voltage. Yes don't mix and match, I mainly meant always be upsizing conduit, always run extra conduit, always run everything you could ever want when you have a trench open.
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Apr 25, 2017 15:13
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Speaking of that, is there anything special you are supposed to do when installing empty conduit? Have a gas stove, or I will soon, and while the wall is open I thought I'd just fit a box and some conduit going to the basement, in case we ever wanted to switch to electric.
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Apr 25, 2017 16:04
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Raised by Hamsters posted:Speaking of that, is there anything special you are supposed to do when installing empty conduit? Have a gas stove, or I will soon, and while the wall is open I thought I'd just fit a box and some conduit going to the basement, in case we ever wanted to switch to electric. How do you mean, special? It's basically just pipe and fittings. Strap it down to the studs periodically so it's properly supported. If it's all interior, you can use EMT conduit, which is lighter and easier to work with than rigid conduit. But why would you ever want to switch away from a gas stove? Electric stoves are awful.
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Apr 25, 2017 16:07
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Raised by Hamsters posted:Speaking of that, is there anything special you are supposed to do when installing empty conduit? Have a gas stove, or I will soon, and while the wall is open I thought I'd just fit a box and some conduit going to the basement, in case we ever wanted to switch to electric. Fish in a pull string and tie it to something in the boxes on both ends.
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Apr 25, 2017 16:16
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:But why would you ever want to switch away from a gas stove? Electric stoves are awful. Dual energy ranges are apparently the "best" thing. My MIL has one, gas cooktop and electric oven. Fish tape. And an ethernet jack for your IoT oven. (Don't put an ethernet jack.)
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Apr 25, 2017 16:44
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One Day Fish Sale posted:Fish in a pull string and tie it to something in the boxes on both ends. Tie some fishing cord to a plastic bag, stuff the bag in one end of the conduit, apply shopvac to the other end. Use the fishing cord to run a stronger cable, use the cable to pull your wires. I used a fish tape for my conduit run instead of doing this, and it was pretty finicky; I wish I'd heard of this trick beforehand. I would definitely leave something in the conduit to simplify pulling your cable in the future.
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Apr 25, 2017 16:51
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Well it's like a 3 foot shot so I'm not worried about future pulling. I was more wondering if there were some standard practice for leaving a sign or something or declaring it was just an empty tube in the wall. But I guess that's pretty obvious if you look at it in the future, and since there's no wire in it nothing stops me from sticking a note in there.
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Apr 25, 2017 18:49
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H110Hawk posted:And an ethernet jack for your IoT oven. (Don't put an ethernet jack.) All IOT things are wireless... because inputting a SSID and password is so much fun on something that has controls designed to be an oven.
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Apr 26, 2017 00:12
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Steampunk Hitler posted:Cool, I really don't have any feel for what is a lot or not (I've done basic wiring of outlets and a lot of low voltage, but never done any planning of 110+v stuff, only just was extra labor). I've seen people online with a woodworking shop in a garage or outbuilding talking about sub panels from 60A all the way up to 125A which feels like a very wide range. I think my next step since this doesn't seem like a crazy thing to do is to get an electrician out to quote me and see what they think a panel should be sized at for here. So I talked to my normal electrician via email, and after sending a few pictures they estimated (estimate instead of quote since they hadn't personally been out to inspect the job) $1200-1400 for a 60A panel and $1500-1700 for a 100A panel. Searching online that seems like a pretty reasonable price all in and done (the run itself is about 50' from wall to wall, plus any routing that needs to be done). Thanks a lot everyone for your help!
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Apr 28, 2017 01:41
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Is there a preferred/code legal way to splice an underground run? We were digging up some shrubs out front and cut the line running to our lamp post. It's two separate conductors, directly buried. They're pretty beefy, maybe 12ga.
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Apr 28, 2017 15:51
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Something like this. It's a couple clamps and some heat shrink and some dielectric goop, basically. There are plenty of variants, take your pick. e: Here's one for single wires, sounds like it's better for your case. It looks like neither of those actually come with the dielectric grease though, if it were me, I'd pack some in there. Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Apr 28, 2017 |
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Apr 28, 2017 16:00
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Bad Munki posted:Something like this. It's a couple clamps and some heat shrink and some dielectric goop, basically. There are plenty of variants, take your pick. Something like that would be perfect. Look for a splice kit rated for direct burial. Note that you can shrink hear shrink tubing with a lighter, but you need to hold it like 6 inches away since heat shrink tubing can burn. Since heat rises and it's in a hole, that means digging the hole even deeper and sticking your arm in far enough to put your body parts over the flame. I'd use a torch if you could. That way you can heat it from above, no need to dig deeper. Start far away from the tubing and inch closer until it shrinks. Protip: don't forget to slip the tubing on the cable first before you screw down the terminals!
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Apr 28, 2017 17:44
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Is there any reason I can't make all the lightswitches in my house run on 24v and control my lighting with relays, outside of the enormous increase in cost?
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Apr 30, 2017 01:47
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That was a thing in the 50s and 60s, look up Remcon lighting controls I have no idea if current code would let you implement a modern version
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Apr 30, 2017 05:54
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As recently as 15 years ago I dealt with a property that had low voltage switches for all lighting. Huge pain in the rear end from a maintenance perspective, but it was in a school so I would expect it was up to code at the time.
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Apr 30, 2017 06:30
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So all 3 lights in my bathroom and the fan are all on the same switch. Which is okay. The lights are LEDs which basically want to never be turned off, now, though. So the fan would be on 24/7. It'd be easy enough to split the fan off the wiring to the lights, but then the switch would just be for the fan and the lights would be unswitched, which sounds really stupid and probably also super illegal so I'm not doing it. Do I find some terrible device that jams two switches into the space of one? There IS another switch there, for the heat lamp, which I never use because it's not 1987, so in theory I could disconnect the heat lamp entirely and use that switch.
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Apr 30, 2017 19:42
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These exist: 
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Apr 30, 2017 19:52
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Guy Axlerod posted:These exist: i'm really hoping it was wired semi-sensibly and i can just buy one of those and be done in ten minutes now to never find one that matches the rest of my switches
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Apr 30, 2017 19:56
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SoundMonkey posted:i'm really hoping it was wired semi-sensibly and i can just buy one of those and be done in ten minutes Pull out your existing switch before you go buy a new switch. There is probably a make and model on the back, note the color (white? almond?), then check online to see which local home improvement place stocks that switch. You can at that time figure out if you have enough stuff in your box to split them. Hint: You likely don't. 
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Apr 30, 2017 20:13
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insta posted:Is there any reason I can't make all the lightswitches in my house run on 24v and control my lighting with relays, outside of the enormous increase in cost? Why?
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Apr 30, 2017 20:53
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I'm guessing for some kind of super-nerd home automation stuff but c'mon just be a regular nerd and buy a bunch of Hue lights. i have fifteen hue bulbs in my house oh god where has all my money gone
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Apr 30, 2017 21:41
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hi someone help me because im an idiot and u all know more than me I live in a house that was originally built around 1914 and had knob and tube wiring. Sometime in the mid-80s (most likely between 1984-86) the knob and tube was completely disconnected and the whole thing was rewired. Most of the outlets in the house are 3 prong outlets, but there are a few 2 prong outlets. There's a GFCI in the kitchen. Of course, I'm looking to replace the 2 prong with three prong outlets. (yes I read that post linked in the OP) I read about the whole 'GFCI and a sticker' thing to replace them without a ground, but I also read stuff about ground being ran to outlets and simply not used on 2 prong outlets. I don't know exactly what the wiring is like. We have that metal armored cable running all over in the basement to (as far as I know) all of the outlets. I tested the existing 3 prong outlets with one of those 3 light outlet tester things from Home Depot and all of the 3 prongs I tested showed up as correct, and we've never had any weird electrical issues, so right now I'm assuming it's all actually grounded. So I guess now the questions I have - There's no way of knowing if there is an available ground or not on the 2 prong outlets without looking whats going on behind them, is there? I'm assuming no . Also, one of the 2 prong outlets is controlled by a lightswitch on the wall, would this affect putting in a 3 prong outlet (grounded or GFCI, either way)? I went into this thinking I could do it myself but once it started getting into this whole grounding or not thing then I became less confident. I have multimeters and non-contact voltage detectors and stuff but I'm used to working with, like, 5 volts and 12 volts, not 120 so I'm concerned about it being done correctly.
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May 1, 2017 00:39
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Samuel L. ACKSYN posted:hi someone help me because im an idiot and u all know more than me (IANAE but I have a house with old metal cable and a mix of 2- and 3-prong outlets) There are two general situations with metal cables: - Older cable with steel interlocking armor, which is certified as a ground connection - Newer cable with aluminium sheathing which is not certified as a ground connection, but which (almost?) always includes a green grounded connector in it In my house (wiring ca. 1950) it's universally the first, with some cases of the second for newer work (as well as romex scattered about). In the second case you connect the ground as normal. In the first case you can screw a ground wire to the metal box provided the cable is secured to the box correctly and it will be a valid ground. With the work in question done in the mid 80's I'm not sure what the likelihood is of you having one over the other, but I'd be surprised (ianae) if you didn't have a good option for grounding in there already.
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May 1, 2017 01:39
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