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Deified Data posted:Wanted to touch base and thank you for the useful resources - I read the article, watched the video, lost my first game, and I'm still interested so there's that. Some advice for beginners when it comes to building casual decks and building a collection: - Beginners always overvalue life gain. Gaining life is usually not that important in most games, so don't waste your time with cards where all they do is gain life - When you're building a deck, have a plan for how it can win. Test it by "goldfishing," or just playing against an invisible opponent. Unless you are purposely buiding a slower deck, most of the decks you build should be able to win the game by turns 5/6 without any interference from the opponent - Stick to 60 cards. There is almost no good reason to have more than that in your deck. You want to minimize variance in games, and one way to do that is by playing the minimum deck size. A general rule of thumb is to run 23-24 lands in most decks. - Think about efficiency in terms of in-game interactions. You generally want to see/draw/use more of your deck in a game than an opponent does of his/her deck. So where possible, you want to avoid situations where an opponent can kill/remove 2+ of your cards with only a single one of their cards, and look for opportunities to do the same. The reason most creature enchantments/auras are bad is because they create easy 2-for-1 situations for your opponent. - The deckbuilder's toolkit is an OK place to start to get some staples and lands, but generally you want to buy singles rather than sealed product. That said, your friends/people at your store should be more than willing to give you their bulk commons/uncommons, unless they're shitlords. Otherwise, once you know what you want to build, buy the singles you need. e: There are generally two types of cards--cards that help you get to a winning situation, and cards that maintain a winning situation (e.g. they help you "win more"). Generally, you want to prioritize the first type of card for your deck. It can be tough to make this distinction, but generally as you evaluate cards for your deck, ask yourself "will this help me turn a losing situation into a winning one, or is it something I want to have when I'm already winning?" If I think of anything else, I'll let you know. TheChirurgeon fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 20:56
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ShaneB posted:Best advice. So you'd rather have new players be boring and unoriginal and miss out on cards they might end up loving and enjoy playing because someone pointed them to buy a tournament winning deck that 900 other people also play? Feel bad man if you're jamming casual with friends. If someone ever wants to get serious about actual PTQ's and poo poo then I'd point them to all the dumb "netdecks" once they get a foothold in how the game actually works TheChirurgeon posted:Some advice for beginners when it comes to building casual decks and building a collection: Haha, this was my first pitfall of the game. "Who cares about drawing a card when Angel's Grace gives me 7 life!!!!"
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Apr 26, 2017 21:00
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St0rmD posted:If your plan is to play casual, find out what your friends are playing, and maybe ask to borrow a deck while you figure out what top build for yourself. If most of your friends don't play, you're going to mostly get you're games in at your local shop, which will range from slightly less casual to down right spiky, depending on your shop. If that's the case, you can buy into a budget deck for whatever format is popular to start learning and then upgrade into better decks to attack your local meta game as you figure it out and your budget allows. Yea this is kind of what I was getting at. Also if you're going to stores, I'd recommend attending a few drafts before you even start looking into a constructed deck. It'll be a cheap way to get some games in and find out if you enjoy it enough to sink a bunch more money into a deck. Talk to the people there to find out which formats are popular.
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Apr 26, 2017 20:59
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Hi friends! I've played magic off and on over the years, recently getting back into it during Fate Reforged era, so I've got a couple of thousand cards from that time frame. Recently my 12 year old has picked the game up and his birthday is coming up and I'd like to buy him a booster box, but I have no idea which one to get. The deck we bought him was one of those pre-mades Red/White with Chandra Pyrogenius and a bunch of artifact vehicles, but I'm not sure what expansion that is. Suggestions? edit: I realize buying singles is better etc, but I think opening a bunch of boosters is a more fun birthday present. DigitalMocking fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 20:59
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DigitalMocking posted:Hi friends! It's much more cost effective to buy him the individual cards to make a deck than a booster box. If you're buying a box, the new set is cool.
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Apr 26, 2017 21:01
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80s James Hetfield posted:So you'd rather have new players be boring and unoriginal and miss out on cards they might end up loving and enjoy playing because someone pointed them to buy a tournament winning deck that 900 other people also play? I said to check out budget decks and to buy precons to play with friends. Budget stuff on MTGgoldfish is still "netdecking" in my definition of it. Where was all this loving opinion and effort when the poster was asking for resources and information?
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Apr 26, 2017 21:02
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80s James Hetfield posted:Haha, this was my first pitfall of the game. It's crazy how universal it is--players think "if I have a bazillion life, I can't lose!" and so load up on cards that gain them life, then are shocked when they just lose anyways. I think that part of it is also because they don't think about whether cards affect "the board" yet, so they don't realize that the life gain doesn't help them win or turn a losing situation around, it just delays the loss. If it makes you feel better, Richard Garfield made the same mistake when he made the white boon in Alpha gain 3 life for 1 mana, and thought that'd be on par with drawing 3 cards, doing 3 damage, or getting 3 mana.
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Apr 26, 2017 21:03
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DigitalMocking posted:Hi friends! Also, people in the SA-Mart thread sometimes sell a shitload of bulk cards (not so sure about bulk or less than bulk rares) at a very reasonable price. I'm sure someone here could help you out with that. You could get a bunch of cards sorted by color, sift through and see what you find enjoyable and make a bunch of 60 card casual decks.
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Apr 26, 2017 21:04
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80s James Hetfield posted:So you'd rather have new players be boring and unoriginal and miss out on cards they might end up loving and enjoy playing because someone pointed them to buy a tournament winning deck that 900 other people also play? Other than a rare genius, no one is smarter than the collective knowledge of the collective of tournament players and aggregated tournament results. You need to learn the fundamentals of play patterns and deckbuilding before you can make effective brews.
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Apr 26, 2017 21:06
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TheChirurgeon posted:It's crazy how universal it is--players think "if I have a bazillion life, I can't lose!" and so load up on cards that gain them life, then are shocked when they just lose anyways. I think that part of it is also because they don't think about whether cards affect "the board" yet, so they don't realize that the life gain doesn't help them win or turn a losing situation around, it just delays the loss. I distinctly remember as a small child back in the late 90s, I was getting attacked by a bunch of creatures and was going to lose all my creatures by blocking because duh, can't lose life points, if you lose them all you lose the game. Then I was like "hey wait a minute, if I only block some creatures then I'll have creatures around to block his other guys next turn  " That was a big moment for me.
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Apr 26, 2017 21:10
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TheChirurgeon posted:If it makes you feel better, Richard Garfield made the same mistake when he made the white boon in Alpha gain 3 life for 1 mana, and thought that'd be on par with drawing 3 cards, doing 3 damage, or getting 3 mana. I've often wondered about this cycle and what other options white might have had for a gain three for one mana. How busted would three tokens or +1 counters for a white have been? What other white effects could have replaced healing salve? V V V word, and/or untap 3 dudes perhaps? V V V St0rmD fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 21:11
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St0rmD posted:I've often wondered about this cycle and what other options white might have had for a gain three fit one mana. How busted would three tokens or +1 counters for a white have been? What other white effects could have replaced healing salve? Maybe making 3 creatures indestructible?
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Apr 26, 2017 21:13
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It takes a while to get acclimated to the rules of the game and to figure out super basic stuff like what order to play your lands. You can do that just as well with a goofy werewolf deck as you can with something top-tier. Just try to have a more experienced player take a look at it to talk you out of the most common newbie traps and you'll do alright.
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Apr 26, 2017 21:13
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St0rmD posted:I've often wondered about this cycle and what other options white might have had for a gain three fit one mana. How busted would three tokens or +1 counters for a white have been? What other white effects could have replaced healing salve? i dont think he thought they were balanced since the cards were at different rarities. He just didn't realize how utterly useless lifegain is (would be in the game that had yet to exist) E: one of the things I've often wondered about is how seemingly entrenched concepts like card advantage don't always translate game to game. Netrunner Android has a common Ancestral Recall, but it doesn't see play that much. Why doesn't such a card transfer over as well (and I know netrunner has different resources)? A big flaming stink fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 21:15
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A big flaming stink posted:i dont think he thought they were balanced since the cards were at different rarities. He just didn't realize how utterly useless lifegain is (would be in the game that had yet to exist) in the original pre-alpha testing they were all common. It was during the early playtest rounds one of his friends told him that Ancestral Recall was totally busted @ common and he moved it to rare. St0rmD fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 21:19
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St0rmD posted:I've often wondered about this cycle and what other options white might have had for a gain three fit one mana. How busted would three tokens or +1 counters for a white have been? What other white effects could have replaced healing salve? +1/+1(or +1/+0) counters weren't white in alpha, they were actually in like every other color. Tokens also existed but were only created by The Hive(check out that text box, by the way) which I'm told was considered one of the best cards in the game back then because it gets you a creature every turn dude, that's so good!! I think white only really started to claim that space with Kjeldoran Outpost in Alliances. They had token-making in Fallen Empires but really so did everyone else. Alpha had really powerful color hate so I guess something like "destroy 3 red or black permanents" wouldn't be out of the question 
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Apr 26, 2017 21:21
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A big flaming stink posted:i dont think he thought they were balanced since the cards were at different rarities. He just didn't realize how utterly useless lifegain is (would be in the game that had yet to exist) MTG is a game where your hand gets anemic very quickly. If you started the game with a bigger hand, had a separate deck for your lands that you put on the battlefield in addition to drawing every turn, and every card in your deck was more or less the same in terms of power and situational value, card draw would be way less important. I don't know anything about Netrunner but if running out of stuff to do is not a problem that comes up a lot and different game actions are fairly interchangeable, then you don't really need to draw cards to find the effects you need or refill an empty hand as much. ThePeavstenator fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 21:27
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Elyv posted:+1/+1(or +1/+0) counters weren't white in alpha, they were actually in like every other color. Tokens also existed but were only created by The Hive(check out that text box, by the way) which I'm told was considered one of the best cards in the game back then because it gets you a creature every turn dude, that's so good!! I think white only really started to claim that space with Kjeldoran Outpost in Alliances. They had token-making in Fallen Empires but really so did everyone else. Couldn't be +1/+1 counters anyways or it'd outclass Giant Growth, since presumably they're all instants (or Interrupts, in Counterspell's case but the point is they aren't sorceries). Maybe returning 3 creatures from graveyard to hand could have worked, but Raise Dead and Regrowth already occupied that space.
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Apr 26, 2017 21:32
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Deified Data posted:Wanted to touch base and thank you for the useful resources - I read the article, watched the video, lost my first game, and I'm still interested so there's that. when i first started playing me and my friends brought the intro decks and they were great for teaching, and then as we went to fnms we started upgrading said intro decks with cards we brought or opened casually this worked out well for us having fun
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Apr 26, 2017 21:33
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80s James Hetfield posted:Haze of Pollen from AKH takes the spot of Encircling Fissure now. I'm curious about this - I was planning to replace Repel the Abominable with it in my build, since Repel is pretty bad against the various humans in Mardu Vehicles as well as the random humans (Rogue Refiner) in 4C Copycat. Have you tested Approach of the Second Sun in the deck? It might be too slow/clunky, but if there's a deck that can use it turbofog is probably it.
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Apr 26, 2017 21:34
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i'm not sure if thats like the best way to learn deck-building but let me tell you it became real clear real quick which cards sucked in the intro deck
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Apr 26, 2017 21:34
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DigitalMocking posted:Hi friends! Take a look here: http://mtg.dawnglare.com/?p=sets&source=tcg_low This shows you the expected value of a booster box from each set based on tcg low. That should help your decision.
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Apr 26, 2017 21:35
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little munchkin posted:Do you want to go to game stores to play, or do you just want to jam games with some friends? I'm not terribly competitive so I'm strictly thinking about casual play right now. St0rmD posted:If your plan is to play casual, find out what your friends are playing, and maybe ask to borrow a deck while you figure out what top build for yourself. If most of your friends don't play, you're going to mostly get you're games in at your local shop, which will range from slightly less casual to down right spiky, depending on your shop. If that's the case, you can buy into a budget deck for whatever format is popular to start learning and then upgrade into better decks to attack your local meta game as you figure it out and your budget allows. Most of my friends play and they kind of pressured me into it, so if I keep playing and enjoying myself I should never run out of friendly games. mandatory lesbian posted:when i first started playing me and my friends brought the intro decks and they were great for teaching, and then as we went to fnms we started upgrading said intro decks with cards we brought or opened I've got a lot of catching up to do with most of my friends but a co-worker loaned their Ajani deck to me, which is what I've used so far. Thanks for the advice! Deified Data fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 21:44
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Deified Data posted:I'm not terribly competitive so I'm strictly thinking about casual play right now. If you guys play casually (as in you don't play a specific format), you can build a bunch of fun decks for relatively cheap. Make an elf/ramp deck, make a white weenie deck, make a suicide black deck, make a burn/goblins deck. You can get fun and powerful cards for all of those deck types for relatively cheaply.
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Apr 26, 2017 21:47
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CompeAnansi posted:Take a look here: http://mtg.dawnglare.com/?p=sets&source=tcg_low LOL buying boxes is so so so so bad.
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Apr 26, 2017 21:49
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A big flaming stink posted:i dont think he thought they were balanced since the cards were at different rarities. He just didn't realize how utterly useless lifegain is (would be in the game that had yet to exist) Meanwhile in YGO pot of greed is banned
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Apr 26, 2017 21:50
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St0rmD posted:I've often wondered about this cycle and what other options white might have had for a gain three for one mana. How busted would three tokens or +1 counters for a white have been? What other white effects could have replaced healing salve? There is one card in all of ABU that creates tokens: The Hive. Three creatures create +1/+1 counters, but they are created from triggered abilities and are applied to themselves. I don't know what other effects in white from 1993 would be unique to it for a boon besides lifegain and damage prevention. It's supplsed to be all upside, so the symmetrical effects of Wrath of God, Armageddon, and Swords to Plowshares are out.
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Apr 26, 2017 21:52
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Actually now that I think about it, a 3-point Harm's Way would have been fine. Not overpowered, but fine (although probably a little too close to lightning bolt, but we're working with limited technology here)
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Apr 26, 2017 21:57
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DigitalMocking posted:Hi friends! As with the other person starting out, how he plays is important here. If he's looking to start playing at his local FNM, then yeah just go with Amonkhet, the newest set. If he's strictly playing kitchen table magic with his friends though, I'll go against the grain and say it's very possible a slightly older set would be better. Does he like dragons? He's a 12 year old boy playing a fantasy game in a casual setting, of course he does! Buy a box of Dragons of Tarkir. Do you know if he really likes playing one or two color pairs? Get him a box of RTR or Gatecrash that'll have lots of support for that guild. Getting much older than that and you end up with much more expensive boxes, unfortunately, but if a recent set speaks to his interests, I'd go for that rather than whatever is newest. And if he does decide to get a bit more serious down the road you can start looking at singles. Whatever he pulls out of a single box of Amonkhet isn't going to make for a great standard deck anyway. Opening a box of boosters is a way more fun gift than having a deck handed to you.
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Apr 26, 2017 22:03
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Different games have different sets of resources, news at 11. Like you can't just equate 1 cost draw 3 cards in different games to each other when one of them is 1 cost USE AN ACTION and the other is just 1 cost with no other caveats. There's a supporter in Pokemon that's draw 3, and there's no cost to playing supporters so you could call it 0 mana Draw 3, except it's not and the card is unplayable because the game works totally differently (you can only play 1 supporter a turn and there's way more powerful card drawing on supporters than just draw 3 cards).
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Apr 26, 2017 22:02
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Boxman posted:As with the other person starting out, how he plays is important here. If he's looking to start playing at his local FNM, then yeah just go with Amonkhet, the newest set. Wholeheartedly agree with this post. If they want to play competitive Magic, then buy some important singles (as well as packs, because opening packs is really fun). Just playing with friends for fun? A duel deck plus some packs, or one of the boxes suggested above based on interest (steampunk? Go Kaladesh. Egypt? Amonkhet. Cosmic horror? Shadows over Innistrad). I remember being 12, it's generally about being competitive amongst your friends as opposed to FNM or REL stuff.
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Apr 26, 2017 22:10
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Haha, these are actual MTGO people
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Apr 26, 2017 22:13
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Elyv posted:I distinctly remember as a small child back in the late 90s, I was getting attacked by a bunch of creatures and was going to lose all my creatures by blocking because duh, can't lose life points, if you lose them all you lose the game. Then I was like "hey wait a minute, if I only block some creatures then I'll have creatures around to block his other guys next turn Everyone I know starts out doing this. Gotta start chumping turn 4 cause otherwise my life total will be perilously close to 15.
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Apr 26, 2017 22:14
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Soviet Canuckistan posted:I'm curious about this - I was planning to replace Repel the Abominable with it in my build, since Repel is pretty bad against the various humans in Mardu Vehicles as well as the random humans (Rogue Refiner) in 4C Copycat. I was actually planning to keep Repel and get rid of Encircling Fissure Repel is 2 mana and is so great again Pummeler which is popular in my meta (probably will be even more so with Fling now) Pollen at 2 mana is just a better Fog than Fissure over all. Plus the Cycling. I wouldn't mess with AoSS right now at this point personally
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Apr 26, 2017 22:17
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80s James Hetfield posted:Haha, these are actual MTGO people I've been in MTGO games where playing an plasm capture resulted in me being called an rear end in a top hat and followed by a concession
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Apr 26, 2017 22:16
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Played some games last night with a friend where he play tested 2 Rhonas in Bant company. Card seems really good and is trivial to turn on with KotR and tarmogoyf, if you run goyfs. Basically a Kessig wolf run on a big stick. Don't know if 2 is right but the card seems good in knight-company decks.
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Apr 26, 2017 22:20
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Fingers McLongDong posted:Played some games last night with a friend where he play tested 2 Rhonas in Bant company. Card seems really good and is trivial to turn on with KotR and tarmogoyf, if you run goyfs. Basically a Kessig wolf run on a big stick. Don't know if 2 is right but the card seems good in knight-company decks. I am running one in my jund shadow deck and I am totally happy with it.
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Apr 26, 2017 22:22
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TheChirurgeon posted:I've been in MTGO games where playing an plasm capture resulted in me being called an rear end in a top hat and followed by a concession What can you play in legacy that doesnt have PW, Discard, Counters, Mill?
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Apr 26, 2017 22:22
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80s James Hetfield posted:What can you play in legacy that does have PW, Discard, Counters, Mill? Burn. Although he'd probably get pissed at that too. EDIT: Or even better, you can play storm, just ditch cabal therapy and duress. I'm sure that guy would love to play against storm. CompeAnansi fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Apr 26, 2017 |
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Apr 26, 2017 22:23
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80s James Hetfield posted:What can you play in legacy that doesnt have PW, Discard, Counters, Mill? Elves
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Apr 26, 2017 22:24
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