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I should clarify that I'm talking about nWoD Mage, oWoD Mage I'm not interested in even trying to defend.  UA puts everything in human hands and has a very frank, "our own hosed up priorities and foibles are the reason things are such a mess." It gives humanity that ultimate responsibility that should logically follow from the consensus reality / we make our own gods attitude. It's not an aesthetic I'm particularly into, but it isn't hedging its bets and it works very well internally. Mage... does not do that. I know UA was conceived of as the total opposite of the WoD "everything is the result of grand forces beyond our control" but the truth is that Mage, even nuMage, tries to do both at once, and the result is a system that alternates schizophrenically between "you're a horrible egomaniac who will hurt everyone around you just by existing and pursuing your obsessions" on the one hand and "there are literal, sapient personifications of Oppression and Patriarchy and Order grinding down on humanity's free will RIGHT NOW and you're the only people well-situated to fight them" on the other, which is gross because when you combine the two the result is "oppression exists but actually fighting it makes you a liability." It's like a cautionary tale about the horrors of doing the right thing. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Apr 17, 2017 |
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Apr 17, 2017 19:37
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I like both oMage and UA. It feels like oMage is 'what if the things you BELIEVE have power' but UA is 'what if the things you DO have power'. So in oMage, a guy with a magical library is a Hermetic, his library is magical because he believes it is but it's still a library full of magical power. In UA that guy has power because he's a hoarder, the books could be anything. In oMage, Jim Morrison REALLY IS channeling the spirit of Dionysus to become the Lizard King and spread englightened hedonism to the world. All that poo poo he believes is real because he believes it hard enough. In UA, he's powerful because he's a drunk and a drug addict, not because he dresses it up. I flip between half-believing in oMage and half believing in UA. I think oMage is a bit healthier, since you're creating lofty beliefs and living up to them, while UA ties you to the mundane reality and forces you to work within that to makes changes. The other thing is you could have either game be the false reality to hide the true reality of the other one. In oMage, Jim Morrison learns he can stop drinking & instead focus his enlightened will through higher symbolism in order to effect 'mundane reality.' In UA, it's 'the symbolism doesn't matter, the obsession does, let's go steal Lord Byron's skull cup'. Count Chocula fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Apr 18, 2017 |
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Apr 18, 2017 04:31
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The thing about ua's consensus reality is that it's the consensus of 333 assholes from another universe and a few nutjobs that can pull at the seams, rather than a true Psychodemocracy.
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Apr 18, 2017 09:37
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My single favourite 'other' thing about UA is that the better you get at magick, the more you get broken and powerless to deal with the most mundane poo poo.
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Apr 18, 2017 09:44
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You don't need to worry about bills when you've got a pair of these bad boys: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%A1br%C3%B3k
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Apr 19, 2017 04:09
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:You don't need to worry about bills when you've got a pair of these bad boys: I'm not sure whether it's more UA-y to declare that the necropants are a real artifact you can make in UA, or that the necropants ritual is complete bullshit but plenty of idiot low-level checkers try it anyway, and your buddy asking you before you go throw down if you're okay with his "trying something" if you die is a sign it's time to find a new buddy. On the other hand... nobody's seen Alex Abel in anything shorter than full-length pants since he became a public figure. The man hasn't had an actual intimate relationship in decades. Whose scrotum is he pulling coins out of?
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Apr 20, 2017 06:47
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smelly rear end dude whose pants always fit weird and only ever pays for poo poo in freshly printed Krona is a winning minor UA npc at any rate.
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Apr 20, 2017 21:08
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Can anyone with some knowledge of the One Roll Engine provide some feedback? I've put together a first draft of a hack of Reign's Esoteric Disciplines that's designed around creating playable alien species for sci-fi games. Here's the link to my dropbox. The idea is straight from Reign's Ardwin setting, where the distinct abilities of a playable fantasy race are built as Disciplines. I took that idea and reworked it with some added SF elements and added rules for modifying hit locations and introducing species-specific Problems.
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Apr 25, 2017 19:28
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finally got my three books in magnet binder, looks kewl 
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Apr 26, 2017 09:11
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Well, that's a hell of a LARP.
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Apr 26, 2017 14:23
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I can imagine few things as disturbing and depraved as an Unknown Armies LARP.
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Apr 26, 2017 14:29
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A F.A.T.A.L. LARP? 
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Apr 26, 2017 14:32
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Enola Gay-For-Pay posted:I can imagine few things as disturbing and depraved as an Unknown Armies LARP. What a coincidence! Imagining things as disturbing and depraved as an Unknown Armies LARP is the first rule of the Unknown Armies LARP.
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Apr 26, 2017 14:33
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UA larp would probably be indistinguishable from FreeBase larp.
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Apr 26, 2017 20:52
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One guy is hoarding rulebooks, one guy is drunk(er than everybody else), one guy is cutting Don't get me started on the pornomancers...
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Apr 26, 2017 20:53
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My freshman year at RIT was basically an Unknown Armies LARP. Weirdoes who believe in magic, secret organizations obsessed with illegally swapping worthless pop culture ephemera, arcane technological rituals designed to get you a schedule without any morning classes...
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Apr 26, 2017 21:03
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My UA game wasn't a LARP, but the Dipsomancer's player always brought nice booze to convince the other players to go along with his schemes, and our post-game meal was at McDonalds. The greatest thing about UA is it blends the barriers between 'reality' and fiction. You're all playing RIGHT NOW. As for those 333 whales being killed, it makes sense. The Sea Shepherd guys who oppose them talk like they're in a Werewolf LARP.
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Apr 27, 2017 03:16
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It wasn't exactly UA but a friend and I once ran a larp where the players were different flavours of occultist gambling for arcane artefacts in Hell's casino. It basically ended up as being that scene from To Go with the high-stakes mystical card game.
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Apr 27, 2017 08:03
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To my shame, I played in an Unknown Armies LARP. It was fun. Thankfully, the organizers were smart enough not to put in any naked goddess references. I played a dipsomancer. I got drunk on power and screwed up my objectives; so success in roleplaying, I guess.
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Apr 27, 2017 09:53
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Whybird posted:It wasn't exactly UA but a friend and I once ran a larp where the players were different flavours of occultist gambling for arcane artefacts in Hell's casino. It basically ended up as being that scene from To Go with the high-stakes mystical card game. That scene is so great in theory but has some problems in practice, at least if you're like our group and got garbage-rear end cards the entire time.
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Apr 27, 2017 11:06
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You know, as a guy who's been into UA for years, I really screwed up by not backing the KS for Third. "I've already got everything for the last two editions", I whined. "I never play anyway", I kvetched. Shut up, man. The Deluxe Edition with its swank screen/slipcase arrived today and I'm already planning my next campaign. Goddamn, these books are beautiful inside and out.
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Apr 27, 2017 16:30
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I was up until 1 AM last night racing through the books and after my first skim, I really like it. The meta of the Comte and the Cosmic Hermaphrodite having their encounter at the Bon Ton is properly mysterious and the sandbox it sets up for groups to explore what any of that meant in this new world is fantastic. I wasn't initially thrilled with tying in stats to the various stresses but it all seems to fit together neatly and in a way that I think my group will enjoy. All in all, I feel like the game has evolved very nicely with the way RPGs have evolved (communal character creation and goal-setting being foremost in there), with Greg showing a lot of his thought processes in the writing, and generally it's a joy to read. LOVE the fluff in Book 1 between chapters - it's great how immersive that is and it immediately got me hooked on thinking about campaign ideas and pondering how to involve 03/03/03 in those ideas. In short, it's great and I regret not Kickstartering if only because they'd've gotten more of my money directly. Is there any plan to release Books 4 and 5 and the various packs mentioned on the KS page to the general public? I'd be willing to pay something reasonable to get a chance to read 'em in PDF.
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Apr 28, 2017 19:06
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And finally, not to be a one-man show on this thread, but is anyone aware of a good website or text file that gives a one-page rundown on UA for prospective players? I'd really like to pass something on to my group-to-be that gives them a good taste of what the game's about (I like his podcast interview description of Avatars being the VIPs hustled right into the club and Adepts being the drunks tossed out and screaming they'll just make their own club). Ideally someone's already done that work for me in a fashion I can largely credit and crib. Anybody got a link to something that might help?
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Apr 28, 2017 19:40
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Memnaelar posted:Is there any plan to release Books 4 and 5 and the various packs mentioned on the KS page to the general public? I'd be willing to pay something reasonable to get a chance to read 'em in PDF. I don't see a direct mention of the plans for 4 and 5 on a quick skim but they definitely didn't talk about them as exclusives so they'd be crazy not to sell them to the wider world. The campaign starter kits are specifically cited as going to be available for a fee to non-backers. The Crazy Packs are just the old UA books bundled as a deal for backers. Sounds like you already have them and they're available individually if you don't. What they most likely won't be doing is printing books 4 and 5.
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Apr 30, 2017 03:31
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Books 4 and 5 are going to be released as pdf only, yeah. You have to realize though, that they are not finished - those of us who backed the KS only have access to the raw text versions, with little to no formatting and none of the art or layout done. So I suspect that once they finish with them, they will release them for sale as well.
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Apr 30, 2017 07:20
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I love a lot of the new edition, but I'm not actually mad keen on 03/03/03, for the reason that it removes a big pillar of the structure of the setting. If a critical part of the foundation of the Occult has been removed, how does anyone in the Underground know how to achieve anything? It's fair enough to say "they probably don't", but part of the strength of UA for me was that it wasn't just all fuzzy and unknown, there were logical parts, enough logical parts that people could and would try to do things in the setting. And this kind of yanks that away. As does the rule that Archetypes can attack their own Godwalkers if they attempt to replace them thus making it suicidal (I'm pretty sure in Statosphere they couldn't because attacking their own representative would violate their position as Archetype per se) Also, if he was trying to address gender fluidity explicitly by making the Naked Goddess's avatar a transwoman, he's messed up, since combining that with some of the gender-specific spells and archetypes could lead to very unpleasant discussions (and not in "good for UA" way).
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May 2, 2017 18:02
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hyphz posted:And this kind of yanks that away. As does the rule that Archetypes can attack their own Godwalkers if they attempt to replace them thus making it suicidal (I'm pretty sure in Statosphere they couldn't because attacking their own representative would violate their position as Archetype per se) Pretty sure this was always in?
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May 2, 2017 19:08
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Yeah, I would have to double-check 2E, but I'm pretty sure that, at bare minimum, the concept that the Archetype can and usually will attempt to sabotage Godwalker ascension attempts is there. It makes sense when you consider that pretty much every ascension-minded Godwalker is doing it because they have their own interpretation of the Archetype that doesn't mesh with the existing interpretation: look at Dermott Arkane as the Heisenberg Messenger, or Erica Fischer and the True Executive. Godwalkers like this are powerful enough, and good enough at being avatars, that the Archetype can't just strip their power, but their Archetype still has every reason to oppose them out of self-defense.
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May 2, 2017 19:40
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Well, I went and checked, and:UA 2E, Statosphere, p37 posted:The Clergy member you're attempting to oust can't stomp you outright, because by the time you've gotten to Godwalker status you're so closely linked to it that harming you directly would be like cutting out his own heart. Instead, he has to manipulate mortal agents into attacking the presumptuous Godwalker - preferably preparing a candidate of his own for the job. UA 3E, Play, p97 posted:Threatening your archetype's position in the Clergy is a great way to get an airplane dropped on your head. The best protection individuals have against the Clergy are that single humans are so small, and the archetypes are so big, that a unique challenger is hard for its archetype to track.. unless he happens to be its godwalker. Archetypes can always see them. So there has been a change here - the Archetype can fight replacement ascensions (or assumptions as they're now called) with full control of probability. And as was previously noted, fighting control of possibility is instant death, you can't assume without being a Godwalker, and a Godwalker can't hide, so assumption is now basically impossible. Weird. 
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May 2, 2017 20:59
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I'm choosing to read that (because archetype battles in 2E were rad as hell) as the consequences of threatening the archetype's position, not threatening to oust the member of the clergy embodying it. If you're trying to replace the True King with a modern variant, that's all well and good and part of the Statosphere's game, but trying to destroy the archetype altogether (by, say, weakening the popular belief in the right of anybody to rule over anybody) will be a different matter entirely.
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May 3, 2017 00:31
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I would say that it's definitely not out of the picture to replace the archetype. I don't want to go too much into it for spoiler reasons, but the idea of replacing an archetype (and how feasible it is*) is one of the idas in YOU, Greg Stolze's recently kickstarted and delivered novel. * or how it messes with the heads of people who have devoted themselves totally to this one role... If you don't care about spoilers: The main character's ex-wife comes up with a plan to replace the Necessary Servant archetype (of which she is currently the Godwalker) by convincing the main character to kill her... because he's convinced it's what must be done for the good of the Archetype. Her reasoning is that this falls under the most necessary service possible and will take him to Godwalker (as she dies) and to full Archetype basically at once. You should read the book, though. It's good. There's stuff going on besides that. It doesn't have to be that tricky, but I don't think the archetypes can crush all challengers with impunity. Sionak fucked around with this message at 02:00 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 01:58
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I don't know if it's mentioned in the rules, but in my head, archetypes can't violate taboos without losing major ground in the war, if at all. So, combined with other mystical defenses like proxies, you can keep airplanes from dropping on your head by trying to make it hard to kill you without breaking the rules. If a messenger is live streaming their news report, the archetype can't just get them killed. Of course, other archetypes might want to take a swing. With the True King, there's going to be an alliance of the Fool, the Executioner, etc. Edit: There's also the whole sanctum thing. If you're challenging the Mother, it would be a great idea to have the only key to a storage closet in a maternity ward that's painted with innocuous but potent symbols of motherhood, while you hoard Venus statues and other symbols within the closet. While in there, the mother couldn't land an airplane on you. Leaving is riskier. Dr. Arbitrary fucked around with this message at 02:27 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 02:19
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hyphz posted:I love a lot of the new edition, but I'm not actually mad keen on 03/03/03, for the reason that it removes a big pillar of the structure of the setting. If a critical part of the foundation of the Occult has been removed, how does anyone in the Underground know how to achieve anything? It's fair enough to say "they probably don't", but part of the strength of UA for me was that it wasn't just all fuzzy and unknown, there were logical parts, enough logical parts that people could and would try to do things in the setting. And this kind of yanks that away. As does the rule that Archetypes can attack their own Godwalkers if they attempt to replace them thus making it suicidal (I'm pretty sure in Statosphere they couldn't because attacking their own representative would violate their position as Archetype per se) 100% Archetypes could attack their own Godwalkers in 2E. A big part of an Ascension is the preparations the Godwalker takes to protect themselves from their Archetype before they declare war on them. I think the example was a Godwalker of the Fool creating a sanctum with a giant I AM HERE sign explaining who they are and what they're doing, protecting themselves from the Fool by taking refuge in sheer idiocy. Obviously Archetypes can largely only affect the world through coincidence and by instructing people to kill the wannabe. I distinctly remember a quote from 2E being something like "just think how hard Ascending into a brand new archetype is and then try doing that while armies of cultists are coming to kill you and every single random event that happens to you goes against you."
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May 3, 2017 13:03
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Sure, but being attacked by bad luck and cultists with a grudge makes for a fundamentally interesting story, being attacked by a plane dropping on your head doesn't. I guess what I'm missing is the clarification that the archetype tends to have to do it indirectly through mortal agents.
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May 3, 2017 17:14
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My interpretation is that if a plane was going to crash at 3:33 on a specific day, that plane might end up being the one you're under. And at the same time, making a blatant attack like that risks ending it in the challenger's favor. Dropping an airplane on any of the following could be an instant lose for the Archetype: A fool sleeping in a bed situated in a cornfield that's been mowed to make a giant bullseye. A mother protecting a room full of children. A messenger broadcasting the imminent plane crash. A gambler who just dumped their life savings into life insurance that covers acts of god.
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May 3, 2017 18:15
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If a plane fated to crash at 3:33 leaves LAX heading East and a Flying Woman departs JFK four hours prior to that heading West, which Rust Belt City must an Entropomancer park their murdered out Dodge Charger in front of a haunted liquor store at for them to be in the debris radius but not like, too in the debris radius? Show your work to prove You Did It.
Capntastic fucked around with this message at 18:28 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 18:21
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Capntastic posted:If a plane fated to crash at 3:33 leaves LAX heading East and a Flying Woman departs JFK four hours prior to that heading West, which Rust Belt City must an Entropomancer park their murdered out Dodge Charger in front of a haunted liquor store at for them to be in the debris radius but not like, too in the debris radius? Show your work to prove You Did It.
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May 3, 2017 19:13
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Doodmons posted:100% Archetypes could attack their own Godwalkers in 2E. A big part of an Ascension is the preparations the Godwalker takes to protect themselves from their Archetype before they declare war on them. I think the example was a Godwalker of the Fool creating a sanctum with a giant I AM HERE sign explaining who they are and what they're doing, protecting themselves from the Fool by taking refuge in sheer idiocy. That's from the same bit I quoted, and it was mentioned as a way to confuse incoming high-level Avatars of the Fool, not to dissuade the Archetype. quote:Obviously Archetypes can largely only affect the world through coincidence and by instructing people to kill the wannabe. Sure, but in 2E their control over coincidence was absolute. It basically said that if you manage to get directly attacked by an Archetype, and you don't have another one trying to help you, there's nothing you can do. Sooner or later you have to eat and, oh look, there was unprepared fugu liver in your meal, what were the odds of that? Don't bother sharing it either, it'll just strangely turn out to be in the bit you ate. Think standing around a bunch of children will protect you from the Mother? Well, what's the odds of a semi hitting the entire group and killing you but leaving the kids unharmed....? Now I did notice that there's a lot less in 3E about how powerful the Clergy are, so it's possible that their power has been toned down a bit, because it's a bit of a story killer - eg, why didn't they just annihilate Mak Attax before the Ritual of Light?
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May 3, 2017 20:48
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I don't think it's really stated in the rules, but I think there are a few things working in favor of the challenger. If your version of the archetype is different enough from the old one, then you're going to have an Iliad scenario where part of the clergy is in favor, and the rest are ambivalent or against it. I would think that would fuzz up the really unbelievable quirks of probability. A shrapnel bomb in a nursery missing every baby but killing the avatar, not possible. An upset individual with a grudge against the hospital for charging a fee to hold his newborn baby suddenly getting the bright idea to grab his gun and teach that nurse a lesson, coincidentally chosing the same shift as the Godwalker, much more likely. It's been stated that an avatar with a similar take on the archetype can't ascend. I think it's theoretically possible, but the entire clergy is going to be against an arbitrary replacement, so probability is going to murder the usurper. But if you've got a different take, like a mother working at some hypothetical clinic that's strongly focused on family planning, performing deliveries and abortions in the same facility, prescribing birth control and providing pediatric care, and trying to ascend as the planned mother, she's going to have allies with the Flying Woman. If the Mother archetype tries to crash a plane by poisoning the pilot, a flight attendant will definitely leap into action and save the plane.
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May 3, 2017 21:15
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You need to remember that being against one archetype often puts you on the same side with another one. So while you are trying to usurp one of the archetypes, some of it's enemies might be trying to help you just as it is trying to hinder you. That means that things often go really weird, really fast for any would-be ascending Godwalker. It's also why almost all ascensions are unintentional, and not planned - it really is supposed to be near impossible.
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May 3, 2017 21:36
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